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Farage highlighting illegal migration chaos

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    #662
    kenmm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭kenmm


    mick087 wrote: »
    Why would you feel comfortable?
    What makes an estate rough?
    Have you ever engaged with the locals in such places?

    I often was the locals :D

    People that want to fight out of boredom/ whatever, happy to attack others randomly, crime, vandalism.

    It's usually a minority, but enough to make you not want to hang about much if you don't need to.


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    #663
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Yellow_Fern wrote: »
    That is unfair. At tis stage London has its own accent that is descended from
    minority accdents while the traditional London culture and fare is dying out.

    Think you might be stuck in a different era of pearl king and queens and rhyming slang...


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    #664
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,459 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Yellow_Fern wrote: »
    That is unfair. At tis stage London has its own accent that is descended from
    minority accdents while the traditional London culture and fare is dying out.

    It's perfectly fair because that's what was said.

    Cultures evolve over time and I see no sign that any of London's culture is dying out.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #665
    RWCNT
    Registered Users Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭RWCNT


    Yellow_Fern wrote: »
    That is unfair. At tis stage London has its own accent that is descended from
    minority accdents while the traditional London culture and fare is dying out.

    The accent your talking about has existed for decades, it's just getting a bit more mainstream exposure these days with the popularity of grime music and telly programmes like Top Boy. Go to London and I assure you that you'll hear "traditional" cockney accents all over the place.

    What is the traditional London culture and fare you believe is dying out?


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    #666
    mick087
    Registered Users Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭mick087


    kenmm wrote: »
    I often was the locals :D

    People that want to fight out of boredom/ whatever, happy to attack others randomly, crime, vandalism.

    It's usually a minority, but enough to make you not want to hang about much if you don't need to.


    It sounds like anti social behaviour.
    In these situations its a good idea to join a local community group or if one not in existence start one up.
    When i lived in London And Birmingham i was quite active in the local community.


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    #667
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    RWCNT wrote: »
    What is the traditional London culture and fare you believe is dying out?
    Tubby Isaac’s jellied eel stall in Aldgate finally closes after 94 years

    “I’m the last one ever to do this,” he said. “The business isn’t what it was years ago.
    “All the East End eel stalls along Brick Lane and the Roman Road have closed—it’s a sign of the times.”
    https://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.uk/news/tubby-isaac-s-jellied-eel-stall-in-aldgate-finally-closes-after-94-years-1-2235609


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    #668
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,187 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    biko wrote: »
    https://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.uk/news/tubby-isaac-s-jellied-eel-stall-in-aldgate-finally-closes-after-94-years-1-2235609

    tastes change. that doesnt imply the existence of no-go areas.


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    #669
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Tastes do change, but my answer shows Yellow_Fern was right.


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    #670
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,459 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    biko wrote: »
    Tastes do change, but my answer shows Yellow_Fern was right.

    One eel stall does not equal London culture.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #671
    Hubertj
    Registered Users Posts: 2,000 ✭✭✭Hubertj


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    It's not fair to blame immigration when successive British governments have done nothing whatsoever for either immigrants or the communities they move into.

    I think that’s what I was trying to say in my response.


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    #672
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,459 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Hubertj wrote: »
    I think that’s what I was trying to say in my response.

    I don't see why you had to say that there are no go areas though.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #673
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,187 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    biko wrote: »
    Tastes do change, but my answer shows Yellow_Fern was right.

    one small aspect of east end culture. people just dont want to eat jellied eels any more. it was a cheap food source for the poor people. that level of poverty doesnt exist anymore so people are eating better quality food.


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    #674
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    one small aspect of east end culture. people just dont want to eat jellied eels any more. it was a cheap food source for the poor people. that level of poverty doesnt exist anymore so people are eating better quality food.

    Ya, I'd suspect the majority of us never have a craving for it. It's not because of foreigners... :P


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    #675
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,459 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Ya, I'd suspect the majority of us never have a craving for it. It's not because of foreigners... :P

    Eels are class. I had a great day out in Hastings once and just consumed a whole pile of seafood.

    But yeah, not an everyday food at all and a lot of people are trying to live healthier these days.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #676
    RWCNT
    Registered Users Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭RWCNT


    biko wrote: »
    Tastes do change, but my answer shows Yellow_Fern was right.

    Holy ****, you were actually serious :D


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    #677
    kenmm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭kenmm


    mick087 wrote: »
    It sounds like anti social behaviour.
    In these situations its a good idea to join a local community group or if one not in existence start one up.
    When i lived in London And Birmingham i was quite active in the local community.

    You can also vote, campaign, write to your MP - lots of action. But my point wasn't how to solve that, my point is, there are more times I have felt uneasy dues to existing issues rather than these stories of "no-go" areas caused by immigration.


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    #678
    mick087
    Registered Users Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭mick087


    kenmm wrote: »
    You can also vote, campaign, write to your MP - lots of action. But my point wasn't how to solve that, my point is, there are more times I have felt uneasy dues to existing issues rather than these stories of "no-go" areas caused by immigration.

    There are indeed areas of the UK that would have estates/Clubs that would be no go areas for some races.


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    #679
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    biko wrote: »
    https://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.uk/news/tubby-isaac-s-jellied-eel-stall-in-aldgate-finally-closes-after-94-years-1-2235609

    i cant tell if this is a parody response or what it is.

    but you come up with EEL Stalls closing as something to do with cultural erosion.

    if anything id say the influx of foreign people coming in would be more likely to eat eel than your 'traditional' london 'geezaah'

    Whats more amusing though is i suspect you fully know this but choose to use farage levels of nonsense to prove a point.


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    #680
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,565 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    mick087 wrote: »
    There are indeed areas of the UK that would have estates/Clubs that would be no go areas for some races.

    The term 'no go' isn't helpful.

    How do you define it? Places that you wouldn't be comfortable going to? There's places in Ireland that I'd feel that way about and it wouldn't have anything to do with race or culture. Then there are places where I'd be perfectly happy going to during the day, but not at night, that I'd be comfortable going in a group, but not alone. The term is a bit ambiguous and dog-whistley, so it definitely has its disadvantages.

    Even when you could identify a so-called 'no go' area that is a different race or culture from one's own, it is hard to distinguish how much race or culture is merely a confounding factor to social deprivation.

    Then when you are talking about subsections of a city it can get really complicated and subjective, and you have both ExoPolitic and ancapailldorcha acting as gatekeepers for 'their' city.

    One thing that is clear is that the demographics of London have entirely changed over the last 100 years. More alarming is that you can literally draw on a map these different demographics

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:White_Greater_London_2011_census.png

    Greenwich is an African area. Tower Hamlets is a Bangladeshi area. Hounslow is Indian. Redbridge is Pakistani.

    So it's not just immigrants separate from non-immigrants, it runs deeper, it is different groups of immigrants separate from one another. This rarely signals anything good. If there's an economic divide as well, then that makes the matter much worse.

    The silver lining is that it isn't binary. While minorities are separate from both White English and each other, which is a bad thing, there are at least a lot of different types of minority. London isn't a melting pot. Somebody has introduced lots of ingredients but they didn't turn up the heat enough and you now have coagulated lumps of ingredients.

    I also suspect the motives here. While laissez faire is part of the explanation, I suspect that the economic opportunity posed by having hordes of low-paid immigrants was something that historically was seen as an advantage too good to pass up for the political elite.

    It so happens that these days there really isn't that kind of work available for uneducated immigrants, so there's not as much advantage to letting them in. Of course the fact that there are established communities of particular minorities makes places like London an attractive proposition to prospective immigrants from those minorities, regardless of the realistic opportunity for meaningful employment for them.


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    #681
    mountai
    Registered Users Posts: 952 ✭✭✭mountai


    Nothing to do with current conversation ---- Just heard the best description of Farage ever ---- A SKIDMARK !!!!


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    #682
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    listermint wrote: »
    but you come up with EEL Stalls closing as something to do with cultural erosion.
    Yes, London East End is famous for jellied eels and the places selling them are now going.
    This is the point Yellow_Fern was making and he's right.
    These days burgers and kebabs are a more popular fast food.
    listermint wrote: »
    if anything id say the influx of foreign people coming in would be more likely to eat eel than your 'traditional' london 'geezaah'
    I don't know why you are guessing, but that's what you're doing.


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    #683
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    On topic
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-kent-53697517
    A record 235 people made the crossing in 17 vessels on Thursday.

    download.png


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    #684
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    biko wrote: »
    Yes, London East End is famous for jellied eels and the places selling them are now going.
    This is the point Yellow_Fern was making and he's right.
    These days burgers and kebabs are a more popular fast food.

    I don't know why you are guessing, but that's what you're doing.
    And there's absolutely no indication that immigration is responsible for the drop in eel eating.


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    #685
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,459 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    The term 'no go' isn't helpful.

    How do you define it? Places that you wouldn't be comfortable going to?
    That's not what it is. People are deliberately spreading a myth that immigration means that certain areas are no go zones. 
    RandomName2 wrote: »
    Then when you are talking about subsections of a city it can get really complicated and subjective, and you have both ExoPolitic and ancapailldorcha acting as gatekeepers for 'their' city.

    Is this snide comment supposed to add something? I'm a Londoner posting on a message board calling out false claims that there are parts of this city I cannot venture into as a white man.
    RandomName2 wrote: »
    Greenwich is an African area. Tower Hamlets is a Bangladeshi area. Hounslow is Indian. Redbridge is Pakistani.
    Nonsense. Greenwich having an African population does not mean that non-Africans are not allowed there.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #686
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,565 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    That's not what it is. People are deliberately spreading a myth that immigration means that certain areas are no go zones. 

    There's no point saying that something is or is not something when the something in question is ill-defined and personal. No-go areas in cities generally are socio-economic in nature, with ill defined geographies. It is no point in saying something exists, or is a myth, when the metric that one is using to do so is itself so flawed.

    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    Is this snide comment supposed to add something? I'm a Londoner posting on a message board calling out false claims that there are parts of this city I cannot venture into as a white man.

    Your subjectivity is as tiring as your prickliness. You speak for London no more than the other poster. I honestly find that either of you are from London entirely irrelevant to the conversation. High horse and anecdotal information doesn't really add much.
    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    Nonsense. Greenwich having an African population does not mean that non-Africans are not allowed there.

    Did I suggest such? I'm saying that minorities tend to congregate in London. This is clearly borne out by census data.


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    #687
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    It's perfectly fair because that's what was said.

    Cultures evolve over time and I see no sign that any of London's culture is dying out.
    Yes cultures do evolve. London's culture is currently evolving away from..let's call it "indigenous english"..and towards a mixed international and transient one. This is not a new phenomenon but it is hastening. All over the world loss of indigenous culture is seen as a sad thing...but not in western europe for some reason.


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    #688
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,187 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    biko wrote: »
    On topic
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-kent-53697517
    A record 235 people made the crossing in 17 vessels on Thursday.

    download.png

    Invasion indeed.


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    #689
    Arthur Daley
    Registered Users Posts: 4,459 ✭✭✭Arthur Daley


    In London some of the areas around the airports and the run down parts of the east end/City were the first to go. Places like Southall in the 70s, near Heathrow and Brick Lane near the city/east end but not prime city centre. I'd expect the same or we are seeing similar in Dublin in the 2010s/20s


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    #690
    kenmm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭kenmm


    Arthur Daley wrote: »
    In London some of the areas around the airports and the run down parts of the east end/City were the first to go. Places like Southall in the 70s, near Heathrow and Brick Lane near the city/east end but not prime city centre. I'd expect the same or we are seeing similar in Dublin in the 2010s/20s


    The first to go what?

    Have ethnic communities? Would Kilburn or other areas with a high Irish-Catholic populations not have been first 'to go'?


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    #691
    Arthur Daley
    Registered Users Posts: 4,459 ✭✭✭Arthur Daley


    The old 'sure the Irish went everywhere' argument. Godwin's law for migration debates


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