Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

sydthebeat · 29-04-2011 3:03pm

Karlos_Sparky wrote: »

Hi Folks,

My neighbour just built this wall (pic attached) as the side wall of a kitchen extension. The view in the picture in from my back door. It also encroaches into my back garden (2nd pic taken from above showing existing fence and the foundations of this wall).

It is on the boundary of our back gardens and it is 3.74 mtrs tall.

Would thay have required planning permission ? It is my belief they did not apply for permission so what could be the consequence if it is reported to the council ?

Many thanks
K

yes the require permission to build a wall of that height.
there is a restriction to a height of 2.0 m for walls to the side or rear of dwellings.

the second pic doesnt really tell much without some further explaination.

you can check on-line if they have applied for it.. most councils have an online planing search facility.

reporting it to the council automatically starts a process which includes them receiving a notice of action by the council on unauthosised development, and usually includes a plannig application to retain the structure, to which you can make you objections as part of teh planning file.

its highly unlikely this wall is built for the purposes of just being a wall... do you know what is behind it?

in the second picture it appears as thoug a floor is being poured.

in the first pic its clear the wall has been rendered on you side, did you give them permission to do this??
did you not at any stage question the reason for a wall of this height with your neighbour or the builder?

mark11272 · 03-05-2011 10:24am

Your neighbours definetely need permission for this. I am assuming that they built this extension thinking that the 40 square metre exemption for extensions applies here. It does not in this case as any above ground floor extension must be a distance of not less than 2 metres from any party boundary.

If you report this to the Planning Enforcement Officer thay will issue a warning letter and then an enforcement letter requiring the removal of the structure. Your neighbour can then apply for retention. If you feel strongly about this you should object to the application to be sure your concerns are heard.

BryanF · 03-05-2011 10:37am

if you are (or have been up till now) on good terms with your neighbour explain your concerns. if the wall is not coming down (or you have not reached an amicable settlement)

inform planning authority, building control, HSA and brief your solicitor ASAP, take pictures daily and double check boundary (get deed-map to confirm)

muffler · 03-05-2011 11:25am

Just a little reminder lads......could you please quote the post you are replying to.

Thanks.

Carlow52 · 03-05-2011 11:40am

Karlos_Sparky wrote: »

Hi Folks,

My neighbour just built this wall (pic attached) as the side wall of a kitchen extension. The view in the picture in from my back door. It also encroaches into my back garden (2nd pic taken from above showing existing fence and the foundations of this wall).

It is on the boundary of our back gardens and it is 3.74 mtrs tall.

Would thay have required planning permission ? It is my belief they did not apply for permission so what could be the consequence if it is reported to the council ?

Many thanks
K

@..:D

If you complain to your LA, you will need to do it in writing and then your neighbour has 4 weeks to respond.

LA's rarely make the structure be removed so neighbour just applies for retention and if you object at that stage it may go to an Board Planala which will cost.

zelemon · 05-05-2011 8:31pm

Hi,

Can anyone tell what is the window for a submission/ commentary on an appeal to An bord pleanala? I assume its four weeks but rang them today & was told it could be 6 weeks?

ZL

rayjdav · 05-05-2011 9:11pm

zelemon wrote: »

Hi,

Can anyone tell what is the window for a submission/ commentary on an appeal to An bord pleanala? I assume its four weeks but rang them today & was told it could be 6 weeks?

ZL

4 weeks, beginning on the date of the decision by the Local Authority. The only exception is if the board is closed on the last day or if the period of determination falls over the christmas period.

This is set in The Act and cannot be altered.

yop · 05-05-2011 9:16pm

Karlos_Sparky wrote: »

Hi Folks,

My neighbour just built this wall (pic attached) as the side wall of a kitchen extension. The view in the picture in from my back door. It also encroaches into my back garden (2nd pic taken from above showing existing fence and the foundations of this wall).

It is on the boundary of our back gardens and it is 3.74 mtrs tall.

Would thay have required planning permission ? It is my belief they did not apply for permission so what could be the consequence if it is reported to the council ?

Many thanks
K

Not a hope in hell that is legal. Did they not have a chat about what they were doing and why in God's name would you build something that size!!!!

Up to you but if you go to council that will be ripped down but you won't have a happy neighbour either. In saying that you ain't happy and it devalues your house also.

zelemon · 05-05-2011 9:28pm

rayjdav wrote: »

4 weeks, beginning on the date of the decision by the Local Authority. The only exception is if the board is closed on the last day or if the period of determination falls over the christmas period.

This is set in The Act and cannot be altered.

Thanks for clarifying,
jsut confirm should all cheques be made to "an bord plenala"?

archtech · 06-05-2011 9:09am

zelemon wrote: »

Thanks for clarifying,
jsut confirm should all cheques be made to "an bord plenala"?

in a word yes

ManFromAtlantis · 10-05-2011 11:28am

does anyone know when the requirement for a commencemnet notice for a single house build came into force. would it have been required for a house where planning was obtained and built in c1991.
thanks a mill.

muffler · 10-05-2011 11:31am

ManFromAtlantis wrote: »

does anyone know when the requirement for a commencemnet notice for a single house build came into force. would it have been required for a house where planning was obtained and built in c1991.
thanks a mill.

Without checking the older regs I believe that a commencement notice was necessary for any works starting after 1st June 1991. There was no transitional period regarding the date that pp was granted or applied for.

ManFromAtlantis · 10-05-2011 12:00pm

thanks muffler. as the house was granted in oct1991 i checked a bit further, SI 305 refers to the 'Building Regulations 1991' but then says 'comes into operationn 1st june 1992'. so unless there was requirement before that?

RKQ · 10-05-2011 1:58pm

ManFromAtlantis wrote: »

thanks muffler. as the house was granted in oct1991 i checked a bit further, SI 305 refers to the 'Building Regulations 1991' but then says 'comes into operationn 1st june 1992'. so unless there was requirement before that?

You are correct ManFromAtlantis, the correct date is 1st June 1992. All construction prior to this date is exempt from building regulations / Building Control Act 1991.
However there may have been local authority Bye-laws in your area, prior to 1st June 1992.

How will you prove construction started before the 1st June 1991?
Will a signed Affidavid from you, stating the construction date, be acceptable to a future purchaser?

Interesting query, all the best.:)

muffler · 10-05-2011 3:04pm

ManFromAtlantis wrote: »

thanks muffler. as the house was granted in oct1991 i checked a bit further, SI 305 refers to the 'Building Regulations 1991' but then says 'comes into operationn 1st june 1992'. so unless there was requirement before that?

i knew it was 1st June but couldn't recall the exact year

Tgriff01 · 11-05-2011 9:01am

Hi i'm wondering could someone help me? I'm looking for a roads engineer in the Limerick / North Cork area to do a digital survey of sightlines. Our architect has told us that we have adequate sightlines from our entrance for a proposed new build but the council have rejected our application on the grounds that we don't have adequate forward visibility. If anyone has any info can they please pm me? Thanks a mill.

born2bwild · 14-05-2011 1:52pm

Someone's building a shed that backs directly onto my back garden. It's huge; a brick wall four metres in height. Can't find any record of planning permission (Fingal CC). Left messages on the owner's phone: no answer. This can not be legal. Is it?

muffler · 14-05-2011 3:58pm

born2bwild wrote: »

Someone's building a shed that backs directly onto my back garden. It's huge; a brick wall four metres in height. Can't find any record of planning permission (Fingal CC). Left messages on the owner's phone: no answer. This can not be legal. Is it?

All depends on the size and type of roof etc. Have a look here for the short version of the exemptions

BryanF · 15-05-2011 11:24am

muffler wrote: »

All depends on the size and type of roof etc. Have a look here for the short version of the exemptions

+1
Born2bwild, if you wish to take this further: Take a picture, print a google earth map circling location and send registered letters to your Local council planning office and Building control office outlining your concerns (CC the other on your letter).

Tgriff01 · 19-05-2011 10:00am

Hi i have an appeal in with an Bord Plenala at the moment against a decision the county council made to turn down planning permission for a new build. If an Bord Plenanla don't over turn the councils decision, can I reapply to the council again on the same site? I have been told by the county council and an Bord Pleanala that i can but the local county councillor doesn't think i can. I don't want to hinder any future applications so i'm thinking that maybe i should withdraw it. Thanks.

muffler · 19-05-2011 10:07am

Tgriff01 wrote: »

Hi i have an appeal in with an Bord Plenala at the moment against a decision the county council made to turn down planning permission for a new build. If an Bord Plenanla don't over turn the councils decision, can I reapply to the council again on the same site? I have been told by the county council and an Bord Pleanala that i can but the local county councillor doesn't think i can. I don't want to hinder any future applications so i'm thinking that maybe i should withdraw it. Thanks.

In the event that ABP uphold the Council's decision then you can reapply for PP on the site. You and your architect would however need to address the reasons for the original refusal together with any comments made by ABP before reapplying as it would be a waste of time and money not to do so.

If you are not confident that your appeal will be successful then you should consider withdrawing it as the council can and would fall back to ABP's determinations for any future applications.

rayjdav · 19-05-2011 10:18am

Tgriff01 wrote: »

Hi i have an appeal in with an Bord Plenala at the moment against a decision the county council made to turn down planning permission for a new build. If an Bord Plenanla don't over turn the councils decision, can I reapply to the council again on the same site? I have been told by the county council and an Bord Pleanala that i can but the local county councillor doesn't think i can. I don't want to hinder any future applications so i'm thinking that maybe i should withdraw it. Thanks.

Re reapplying, yes you can, once you make some formal change to the application. You could withdraw it, and on the chance that ABP do refuse the application, you would have a "dirty site". Not the end of the world by any means but just the fact that refusal conditions could always be referenced in any possible future application.

There is always the chance that ABP will overturn the Co. Co, as many on here will testify to.;) They look at the application afresh, taking in aspects that the council did/did not refuse on.

Imho, without knowing the site and associated facts, unless there is some blaringly obvious technical reason for a refusal, I would have a tendancy to let it ride it's course at this stage with ABP, you'd never know.

Tgriff01 · 19-05-2011 10:35am

rayjdav wrote: »

Re reapplying, yes you can, once you make some formal change to the application. You could withdraw it, and on the chance that ABP do refuse the application, you would have a "dirty site". Not the end of the world by any means but just the fact that refusal conditions could always be referenced in any possible future application.

There is always the chance that ABP will overturn the Co. Co, as many on here will testify to.;) They look at the application afresh, taking in aspects that the council did/did not refuse on.

Imho, without knowing the site and associated facts, unless there is some blaringly obvious technical reason for a refusal, I would have a tendancy to let it ride it's course at this stage with ABP, you'd never know.

Thanks very much for the advice. The council turned down our application because of our sightlines. We have just about 90m either side of the entrance but the council have an issue with the forward visibility as there is a very slight bend. However the bend is on the neighbours land and we would not give us permission to slightly adjust it. All we had to do was pare it back slightly but no way. It wasn't even going to affect his land as the ditch is quite thick. But that's the way things go. Our architect is confident that the sightlines are there but we really don't know what the best course of action is.

Poor Uncle Tom · 19-05-2011 11:19am

Tgriff01 wrote: »

Thanks very much for the advice. The council turned down our application because of our sightlines. We have just about 90m either side of the entrance but the council have an issue with the forward visibility as there is a very slight bend. However the bend is on the neighbours land and we would not give us permission to slightly adjust it. All we had to do was pare it back slightly but no way. It wasn't even going to affect his land as the ditch is quite thick. But that's the way things go. Our architect is confident that the sightlines are there but we really don't know what the best course of action is.

Just something to note here. If your application is for a completely new site, house, etc., (greenfield site) you will need to comply fully with the sightlines requirement as stated in the CDP. Nearly getting it will not be good enough. So it is fairly simple, either you have, and can demonstrate, full sight lines or you haven't got them.

If you are working on an extension, renovation or replacement permission there may be room for variance.

You should also remember that An Bord Pleanala will not just determine your application of sightlines but will re-evaluate your application as a whole.

muffler · 19-05-2011 12:16pm

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

You should also remember that An Bord Pleanala will not just determine your application of sightlines but will re-evaluate your application as a whole.

This is a good point and something that a lot of people are unaware of. An application could be refused on a single point by the Council but if appealed ABP will re-examine the entire application and could make any of the following decisions.

1. Allow the appeal and impose new conditions.

2. Refuse the appeal on the original grounds cited by the Council

3. Refuse the appeal for other reasons and include/exclude the Councils reason.

If ABP give other reasons for refusing the appeal then you are digging a deeper hole so to speak as the Council will inevitably use these other reasons to refuse any applications that are made in the future.

As stated by PUT you either have the ability to achieve the sight lines or you dont. Getting the neighbour onside should be the first priority rather than the appeal.

Tgriff01 · 19-05-2011 2:20pm

muffler wrote: »

This is a good point and something that a lot of people are unaware of. An application could be refused on a single point by the Council but if appealed ABP will re-examine the entire application and could make any of the following decisions.

1. Allow the appeal and impose new conditions.

2. Refuse the appeal on the original grounds cited by the Council

3. Refuse the appeal for other reasons and include/exclude the Councils reason.

If ABP give other reasons for refusing the appeal then you are digging a deeper hole so to speak as the Council will inevitably use these other reasons to refuse any applications that are made in the future.

As stated by PUT you either have the ability to achieve the sight lines or you dont. Getting the neighbour onside should be the first priority rather than the appeal.

We have the sightlines at either side of our entrance. The councils issue is that the bend that is on the opposite side of the road to the site restricts the forward visibility when we are turning into our drive way. On one of our FI's the council said that if we asked our neighbour to give us permission to trim the hedgerow across from the site we'd get the planning. Our neighbour agreed.We did this and trimmed the hedge but then they came back with another FI to dig into the ditch. The neighbour would not agree to this as he said we had the sighlines and there was no need to interfere any more with the ditch.

EAFC_rdfl · 26-05-2011 3:22pm

I have a mind to start building a house, but im not sure if the site we have been offered will get planning (its got a river running to the east of it, and a motorway to the south!). Have a rough idea on house plans if we were to go ahead with it and got planning through.
So should I try for outline PP first, or get organised to apply for full planning? Is it much of a longer process to go for outline followed by full?
Hopefully my questions are clear enough

rayjdav · 26-05-2011 4:00pm

EAFC_rdfl wrote: »

I have a mind to start building a house, but im not sure if the site we have been offered will get planning (its got a river running to the east of it, and a motorway to the south!). Have a rough idea on house plans if we were to go ahead with it and got planning through.
So should I try for outline PP first, or get organised to apply for full planning? Is it much of a longer process to go for outline followed by full?
Hopefully my questions are clear enough

First thing I would advise is that you get a pre-planning meeting, with just location maps and even a hand sketch/pic of what you want to biuld. If the planners give a reasonable response I would then urge you to apply for full. Time is the same regardless for Outline or full, major difference is professional fees. You would in effect be paying for the same thing twice??
Source from your local CDP what the set backs are for houses from motorways/rivers, and if you have the site area, then off you go.
Re the river, there is a good chance that the Fisheries Board will make a submission in respect of the river and not interfering with it, so advise your agent to have his contingency plans at application stage.
Also, considering the Motorway issue, allow for screen planting to buffer the noise that it WILL generate.

EAFC_rdfl · 26-05-2011 4:38pm

rayjdav wrote: »

First thing I would advise is that you get a pre-planning meeting, with just location maps and even a hand sketch/pic of what you want to biuld. If the planners give a reasonable response I would then urge you to apply for full. Time is the same regardless for Outline or full, major difference is professional fees. You would in effect be paying for the same thing twice??
Source from your local CDP what the set backs are for houses from motorways/rivers, and if you have the site area, then off you go.
Re the river, there is a good chance that the Fisheries Board will make a submission in respect of the river and not interfering with it, so advise your agent to have his contingency plans at application stage.
Also, considering the Motorway issue, allow for screen planting to buffer the noise that it WILL generate.

cheers for all that, good info there. As for your last point, tell me about it! im still not 100% on having a motorway within eye and ear-shot, but im hoping that some decent trees and hedges towards that side of the field will ease the pain (in about 15years!:D). what does CDP stand for?

rayjdav · 26-05-2011 5:05pm

EAFC_rdfl wrote: »

what does CDP stand for?

CDP = County Development Plan.

Whatever council your under will have their own CDP and they all have minor tweaks from a basic standard format. The NRA dictate issues relating to major roads but some council have extra add-on's to it, depending on the area it's located.

Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

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