Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1
Options
Comments
-
-
Idiot's guide to planning, a few questions for you smart folk?
As a few may have seen from my other "help" threads recently, I've been looking at a few options. A great house that I seem to have been priced out of by a late enthusiastic bidder and a half built house that on further inspection looks like a bit of a lemon! I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that I might bite the bullet, pay the extra money and build.
With that in mind, a few questions. I have been trying to study up and get info online but there's so much stuff about and it's hard to know what is outdated etc by changes in policy or development plans.
1 - I've been living in the same town for just under 5 years. Can anyone clarify the regulations (section 47?) about planning applications for "local residents"? How long do you have to live somewhere to class as a local? I'm originally from about 15 miles away but lived in the North for a few years in between.
2 - Are the planning considerations different based on how far out of town you're looking? I've read some things about being within the town boundaries. Is this a set area based on distance or does it vary from town to town? The area I'm looking at is about a mile/mile and a half out of town.
3 - Going back to the half built house I looked at, it was advertised as needing plastered and second fixing but closer inspection shows that it's nowhere near that. No wiring at all in place, no floors or ceilings and the house looks pretty shabby and may have been abandoned for a few years.
Is it worth considering making an offer purely on the value of the site (which is excellent) and knocking down (even partly) what is there to start afresh? Would I have to apply for fresh planning permission or modify the original plans, as I would want a slightly bigger house but in a similar style. Or is the value of even a shabby shell of a house too good to take down?
4 - Anyone know what the general situation is in Donegal with regards to planning? Strict at the minute? Or relaxed a bit as less people are buying?
Sorry it's a load of info and questions, any answers would be greatly appreciated. I'm going to try and get in touch with the county council next week to speak to someone but better to have some preparation!0 -
Idiot's guide to planning, a few questions for you smart folk?
As a few may have seen from my other "help" threads recently, I've been looking at a few options. A great house that I seem to have been priced out of by a late enthusiastic bidder and a half built house that on further inspection looks like a bit of a lemon! I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that I might bite the bullet, pay the extra money and build.
With that in mind, a few questions. I have been trying to study up and get info online but there's so much stuff about and it's hard to know what is outdated etc by changes in policy or development plans.
1 - I've been living in the same town for just under 5 years. Can anyone clarify the regulations (section 47?) about planning applications for "local residents"? How long do you have to live somewhere to class as a local? I'm originally from about 15 miles away but lived in the North for a few years in between.
2 - Are the planning considerations different based on how far out of town you're looking? I've read some things about being within the town boundaries. Is this a set area based on distance or does it vary from town to town? The area I'm looking at is about a mile/mile and a half out of town.
3 - Going back to the half built house I looked at, it was advertised as needing plastered and second fixing but closer inspection shows that it's nowhere near that. No wiring at all in place, no floors or ceilings and the house looks pretty shabby and may have been abandoned for a few years.
Is it worth considering making an offer purely on the value of the site (which is excellent) and knocking down (even partly) what is there to start afresh? Would I have to apply for fresh planning permission or modify the original plans, as I would want a slightly bigger house but in a similar style. Or is the value of even a shabby shell of a house too good to take down?
4 - Anyone know what the general situation is in Donegal with regards to planning? Strict at the minute? Or relaxed a bit as less people are buying?
Sorry it's a load of info and questions, any answers would be greatly appreciated. I'm going to try and get in touch with the county council next week to speak to someone but better to have some preparation!
DrPhilG,
Answered in order of query.
1: You will have to refer to your local CDP (County Dev Plan) as some Councils have different regulations and timescales attached to their specific rural needs.
Also, your historic tie to the subject site and how far from it with which you have lived for set times and the radius from same to the subject site can change from CDP to CDP. You can get most CDP's online now, and easy to find stuff in them tbh.
2: Once again, your CDP will tell you a lot here. Re Plannning considerations, Urban has a tendancy to get away with a lot more "Helicoptor Bungalow" type development so really depends on what type of house you want and where/if it sits in a rural landscape.
3: Surely there are other green field sites, probably at better value local to your area available? In this day, you may be surprised what you get for your buck.. Personally, if the house is as you say "idle" for a number of years, I would walk/run a mile, and quick.
You will need planning to increase the size of the house, also for most external alterations, if there are more beds a bigger percolation area more than likely, and if septic tank allowed at the moment, greater chance of treatment system conditioned nowadays. This is obviously without knowing the extent of the permission etc.
4: Re Donegal, there are one or two posters on here that can give you more local specific knowledge on that one. From where I deal with, despite the downturn, the Planners are not laxing up on their conditions/grants/refusals, which in some instance, is a good thing tbh.0 -
DrPhilG,
Answered in order of query.
1: You will have to refer to your local CDP (County Dev Plan)
2: Urban has a tendancy to get away with a lot more "Helicoptor Bungalow" type development so really depends on what type of house you want and where/if it sits in a rural landscape.
3: Surely there are other green field sites, probably at better value local to your area available? I
f there are more beds a bigger percolation area more than likely,
Wow, that was as fast as it was detailed!
1 - I think I found one of those plans, it was dated 2005 I think so I just skimmed it assuming it was out of date. I was on night shift and knackered too and there was a lot to take in! I'll check again.
2 - Not sure what a helicopter bungalow is! The house we'd be after is a pretty standard style dormer bungalow, around 2500 square ft.
3 - we wouldn't be increasing bedrooms, decreasing if anything. Its the size of the rooms we'd want to make bigger.
The reason I mention that site is simply because its the best I've found on the market. However I was thinki it would be better to find a plot we like, figure out the situation with planning in that area, then just approach the landowner.0 -
The rural housing policies are set out in chapter 5 of the 2006 - 2012 CDP - see section 5.7 and 5.8 which will give you a good idea.Wow, that was as fast as it was detailed!
1 - I think I found one of those plans, it was dated 2005 I think so I just skimmed it assuming it was out of date. I was on night shift and knackered too and there was a lot to take in! I'll check again.
2 - Not sure what a helicopter bungalow is! The house we'd be after is a pretty standard style dormer bungalow, around 2500 square ft.
3 - we wouldn't be increasing bedrooms, decreasing if anything. Its the size of the rooms we'd want to make bigger.
The reason I mention that site is simply because its the best I've found on the market. However I was thinki it would be better to find a plot we like, figure out the situation with planning in that area, then just approach the landowner.
There are also local area plans and programmes for specific towns and villages and these can be viewed here
In short if you propose to build in a rural area you need to demonstrate "roots and needs". The "roots" sort of speaks for itself insofar as you have to show that you have roots to the area. The full details are in the CDP. The "needs" is simple as you only have to confirm that you require a house in a specific location due to work or the likes.
District Electoral Divisions (DEDs) are made up of a number of townlands. You can live in one DED and apply for permission for a house in another DED which can be up to the 3rd one away as viewed on a map. As the DED's are different sizes the site could be located anywhere from 1 to maybe 6 or 7 miles away from your present residence.
Large parts of the Letterkenny and Inishowen Electoral Areas are also subject to Urban generated Rural Housing Policies. Again these details are all in the CDP.
You can also request a pre planning meeting before proceeding with a formal application.
In conclusion you should engage a professional (arch. technician/architect) at an early stage who can offer more specific advice and assist with the pre planning meeting if you choose to go down that road.
Hope that helps a little.0 -
Advertisement
-
Mods - apologies if I'm posting in the wrong place.
I'm wondering if someone on this forum can advise me if you need to apply for planning permission for a 30 foot portacabin?
I woke this morning to find that the neighbouring creche had planked a 30 foot long portacabin next to my house, there is a boundary wall between us but the noise is unbelieveable. To add to the difficulty, I have a child with special needs so we spend alot of time in our garden but my child is so distressed by the noise levels that he is refusing to go into the garden now. Even when we are in our house with all the windows and door closed the noise is still exceptionally loud.
I spoke to the creche owner (very nicely) to see what her plans were. She basically told me that she was expanding her business and needed more space. She then proceeded to tell me that a portacabin is considered a temporary structure so it is exempt from planning and I should f**k off for myself.
I rang my local planning dept. but they wouldn't give me an answer, they just told me to put my concerns in writing to them.
I would be grateful for any advice.0 -
Not only does your neighbour need planning permission for the structure, she also needs a Fire Safety Certificate and a Disabled Access Certificate.Keep on smiling wrote: »Mods - apologies if I'm posting in the wrong place.
I'm wondering if someone on this forum can advise me if you need to apply for planning permission for a 30 foot portacabin?
I woke this morning to find that the neighbouring creche had planked a 30 foot long portacabin next to my house, there is a boundary wall between us but the noise is unbelieveable. To add to the difficulty, I have a child with special needs so we spend alot of time in our garden but my child is so distressed by the noise levels that he is refusing to go into the garden now. Even when we are in our house with all the windows and door closed the noise is still exceptionally loud.
I spoke to the creche owner (very nicely) to see what her plans were. She basically told me that she was expanding her business and needed more space. She then proceeded to tell me that a portacabin is considered a temporary structure so it is exempt from planning and I should f**k off for myself.
I rang my local planning dept. but they wouldn't give me an answer, they just told me to put my concerns in writing to them.
I would be grateful for any advice.
If the use of this structure is affecting your family's daily life, as you say it is, not only should you report it in writing to the enforcement department of your Local Authority straight away, but you should object to any subsequent application for Retention of planning permission and appeal any grant of same as is within your rights to do so.0 -
write the letter,
address it to the director of services and CC a letter to building control and the HSE person dealing with creches in your area, send all correspondance by registered post.
write a list of relevant issues and write a sentence or two on each, try a see it from the councils perspective, if you keep the letter as professional as possible it will stand to you, but at this stage you want someone to come out a assess the situation. take some pictures outlining the scale, and location in relation to your property.
enquire in writing regarding, the structure, include the approx area of the creche site and the buildings existing on it + the new temporary one. if the site is crowded, give this as a ratio and suggest there are too many kids (include number) being catered for in this location and the overall campus. if there is possibly a better location for the temporary building suggest this also. include the distance from the boundary and the distance to your house from the building.
is the road busy? would an increase in children numbers cause a hazard, is there adequate set down areas, is there footpaths, is there adequate toilet facilities, areas to play, is there areas overlooked by neighbours, are the boundary walls between your properties high enough?, could you suggest that planting be installed to reduce the noise etc, you get the gist...
noise: while a major issue for you, it may be a difficult one to argue without getting a noise consultant to assess it, but it would be worth explaining your circumstances, chancing your arm and asking the council if they will pay for this..
use the following as references to make your arguments http://www.dohc.ie/publications/pdf/welikethisplace.pdf?direct=1
http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Planning/FileDownLoad,1601,en.pdf
good luck0 -
Thank you so much "Poor Uncle Tom" for your reply.Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »Not only does your neighbour need planning permission for the structure, she also needs a Fire Safety Certificate and a Disabled Access Certificate.
If the use of this structure is affecting your family's daily life, as you say it is, not only should you report it in writing to the enforcement department of your Local Authority straight away, but you should object to any subsequent application for Retention of planning permission and appeal any grant of same as is within your rights to do so.
I really appreciate that advice. I note you say that I should object to any further plans for retention etc, which I will do but the only grounds I have for complaint is that my child is extremely distressed by the noise, is that enough?
The creche has been operating for a few years now and I haven't had any difficulties, there have been small things like parents double parking outside house so I've had problems entering my house or leaving it but I never made any issue about it.
I'm really sorry if this is a stupid question, I haven't a clue about planning regulations but aren't you permitted to make noise between 9am - 9pm, so would the Planning Dept. laugh at me if I objected on the basis of noise?0 -
Thanks very much BrianF, you have provided some really excellent advice there.write the letter,
address it to the director of services and CC a letter to building control and the HSE person dealing with creches in your area, send all correspondance by registered post.
write a list of relevant issues and write a sentence or two on each, try a see it from the councils perspective, if you keep the letter as professional as possible it will stand to you, but at this stage you want someone to come out a assess the situation. take some pictures outlining the scale, and location in relation to your property.
enquire in writing regarding, the structure, include the approx area of the creche site and the buildings existing on it + the new temporary one. if the site is crowded, give this as a ratio and suggest there are too many kids (include number) being catered for in this location and the overall campus. if there is possibly a better location for the temporary building suggest this also. include the distance from the boundary and the distance to your house from the building.
is the road busy? would an increase in children numbers cause a hazard, is there adequate set down areas, is there footpaths, is there adequate toilet facilities, areas to play, is there areas overlooked by neighbours, are the boundary walls between your properties high enough?, could you suggest that planting be installed to reduce the noise etc, you get the gist...
noise: while a major issue for you, it may be a difficult one to argue without getting a noise consultant to assess it, but it would be worth explaining your circumstances, chancing your arm and asking the council if they will pay for this..
use the following as references to make your arguments http://www.dohc.ie/publications/pdf/welikethisplace.pdf?direct=1
http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Planning/FileDownLoad,1601,en.pdf
good luck0 -
Advertisement
-
Yes, the noise in this case is creating a nuicence and whether it is from over crouding or not enough insulation it is your neighbours problem, not yours. Your priority is the protection of your family, noise pollution is a problem and there are regulations for it.Keep on smiling wrote: ».....the only grounds I have for complaint is that my child is extremely distressed by the noise, is that enough?
I would put those issues in writing now also, if only to keep a record of nuicence. Your neighbour is acting like a bully, it's time to stamp it out right now. Let them expand their business by all means, but they should do it properly, not to the detrament of their neighbours health.Keep on smiling wrote: ».....The creche has been operating for a few years now and I haven't had any difficulties, there have been small things like parents double parking outside house so I've had problems entering my house or leaving it but I never made any issue about it.
They may be able to make noise but they can not make a nuicence, if they are affecting your son as you say, they are making a nuicence.Keep on smiling wrote: ».....I'm really sorry if this is a stupid question, I haven't a clue about planning regulations but aren't you permitted to make noise between 9am - 9pm, so would the Planning Dept. laugh at me if I objected on the basis of noise?0 -
Poor Uncle Tom and BryanF - thanks so much for taking the time to reply to my query. I'm new to boards so I don't have enough posts to use the "Thanks" button yet
0 -
I thanked them for youKeep on smiling wrote: »I'm new to boards so I don't have enough posts to use the "Thanks" button yet
0 -
Big hug......:D0
-
-
Hi all,
Im a bit confused on the whole "settlement Boundary" issue and how it is applied. I want to check a few things first so I have an idea where i stand and what to expect.
I currently live within a small town/village settlement boundary with my wife (new house in an estate we bought 5 years ago). My home house where my parents are still living is also inside the same settlement boundary. My wife if from another nieghbouring small town.
We currently have the option of purchasing a site which is 2.5 miles outside of the village settlement boundary where both my wife and I and also my parents live.
In relation to the site, my brother recieved full planning on this same site a few years ago with his wife but in the mean time they decided not to build there. They moved to his wifes home town/village instead. This is how the site became available to me.
Basically my wife and I have the exact same criteria as my brother and his wife had. However I've since heard that if you live within a settlement boundary, you are not allowed to build outside of it. Can someone please offer advice or recommendations. I am reluctant to ring and ask the council just yet as to avoid setting off alarm bells etc that may be avoided if possible (or basically putting my foot in it)..
Regards0 -
The criteria is all contained in the Development Plan for your county so in order to get a reply here you need to state which county you are in.joebaker20 wrote: »Hi all,
Im a bit confused on the whole "settlement Boundary" issue and how it is applied. I want to check a few things first so I have an idea where i stand and what to expect.
I currently live within a small town/village settlement boundary with my wife (new house in an estate we bought 5 years ago). My home house where my parents are still living is also inside the same settlement boundary. My wife if from another nieghbouring small town.
We currently have the option of purchasing a site which is 2.5 miles outside of the village settlement boundary where both my wife and I and also my parents live.
In relation to the site, my brother recieved full planning on this same site a few years ago with his wife but in the mean time they decided not to build there. They moved to his wifes home town/village instead. This is how the site became available to me.
Basically my wife and I have the exact same criteria as my brother and his wife had. However I've since heard that if you live within a settlement boundary, you are not allowed to build outside of it. Can someone please offer advice or recommendations. I am reluctant to ring and ask the council just yet as to avoid setting off alarm bells etc that may be avoided if possible (or basically putting my foot in it)..
Regards
Each Planning Authority (Co. Council) have their own individual County Development Plans which can change every 5 years so what was permissible a few years ago may not be allowed now.0 -
The criteria is all contained in the Development Plan for your county so in order to get a reply here you need to state which county you are in.
Each Planning Authority (Co. Council) have their own individual County Development Plans which can change every 5 years so what was permissible a few years ago may not be allowed now.
Hi Muffler, thanks for the speedy reply. Im in County Clare.
Cheers0 -
Thanks. I had a quick look and see they have a new development plan that runs from 2011 - 2017. Policies do change over the lifetime of various development plans.joebaker20 wrote: »Hi Muffler, thanks for the speedy reply. Im in County Clare.
Cheers
You need to have a look at their housing policies which is in there somewhere in the plan and see what you make of that. There may be one of the regulars here who would be familiar with the Clare development plan and who could offer some advice. Im in Donegal so cant help obviously.
If you dont get any other advice or info here you should engage a local architectural technician/architect who would be familiar with the plan requirements. They could offer the best advice. Hang in there as you may get other replies here.
Hope that helps a little.0 -
joebaker20,
I cant comment on co clare, but in co cork the planners when looking at 'local need', will even take in to consideration whether you currently own a house in the area. why not go for an hours consultation with a planning consultant before getting a local arch in. whats a 100quid over alot more to put down a deposit and submit PP0 -
Advertisement
-
joebaker20,
I cant comment on co clare, but in co cork the planners when looking at 'local need', will even take in to consideration whether you currently own a house in the area. why not go for an hours consultation with a planning consultant before getting a local arch in. whats a 100quid over alot more to put down a deposit and submit PP
I've made a new discovery thank god!! With the current local area plan (from 2009), my family home house is within the new settlement boundary. But a previous version of the local area plan (2003 - 2009) had the family home outside of the settlement boundary. As I once lived outside a settlement boundary for 7 years or more I am qualified as "A local rural person"0 -
Hi, we've recently bought a house with an old extension.
We've knocked it down (fully to rear of house, size is circa 12sqm) to aloow for building a new extension (exempt as it would be less that 24sqm and fully to rear).
we've informed neighbours about work starting and what we're about to do, also telling them we'll be happy to sit down and show drawings (it is exempt as my Architect said) and no one asked to see drawings
Here's what we do not understand- a week after we've started when the extension was just being demolished (no other work done as of yet) we received a warning letter from the LA for demolishing an inhabitable house (which we didn't).
We've replied to the LA the same day and got an email (again that was before we even finished demolishing existing) stating that we're about to only rebuild extension, fully to the rear, no overlooking windows, no building onto boundary wall.
We got an email from them to confirm receiving our email and nothing since.
What should we do?0 -
Hi, we've recently bought a house with an old extension.
We've knocked it down (fully to rear of house, size is circa 12sqm) to aloow for building a new extension (exempt as it would be less that 24sqm and fully to rear).
we've informed neighbours about work starting and what we're about to do, also telling them we'll be happy to sit down and show drawings (it is exempt as my Architect said) and no one asked to see drawings
Here's what we do not understand- a week after we've started when the extension was just being demolished (no other work done as of yet) we received a warning letter from the LA for demolishing an inhabitable house (which we didn't).
We've replied to the LA the same day and got an email (again that was before we even finished demolishing existing) stating that we're about to only rebuild extension, fully to the rear, no overlooking windows, no building onto boundary wall.
We got an email from them to confirm receiving our email and nothing since.
What should we do?
nothing.. the balls in their court. youve responded to their letter so its up to them to determine if it warrants further action. its exempt in accordance with section 50 (b) in the exempted development regs
interesting that they used the term "inhabitable house"... i was of the opinion that you needed permission to demolish a "habitable" house...0 -
We got an email from them to confirm receiving our email and nothing since.
What should we do?
You should do nothing.... exempted development is exempted development.
The L.A are fully entitled to investigate the written complaint but if the works are as you say, exempted development, then the L.A will not proceed with enforcement.0 -
-
Although we went through the exempted development documentation and we're 100% sure we're exempt, the letter they've sent me contains fees for investigating and I hope that when found to be exempt (if they do call out) they won't charge me anything.0
-
Hope i'm in the right place for posting .... apologies if not
Hoping someone can offer some advice.
Basically have full planning permission for site in Limerick area, have another two years left on planning permission but due to economic circustances can't see myself getting started or completed before then as working in Dublin.
Basically i want to know the steps involved to retain permission:
Do i have to have substantial works carried out and if so what do they mean by "substantial works"?
Is it possible to just apply for the permission to be extended on economic grounds and have no site works commenced?
Do i wait for another year or so to apply to extend the planning permission?
M0 -
without knowing your site or circumstances of the application, I would recommend you contact your local planning office in writing with your original planning application number and ask them their preferred procedure for extending the planning timeframe. I would suggest you write outlining the current economy as your reason for wanting an extension and not mention your employment outside of the area:) depending on their correspondance you may wish to seek professioal advice from a planning consultant or a local arch tech.0
-
It's my understanding you can only apply for a time extension if the house is already substantially completed. I think there is also a time limit, you have to have applied with no less than 12 months remaining but not 100% sure on that point. You should refer to the Planning & Development Act, 2000 and any amendments/regulations. Although a phone call to the local authority would probably be quicker.0
-
Advertisement
-
First of all the definition of "substantial works" will vary around the country but generally speaking having the blockwork completed would be acceptable in most cases.Do i have to have substantial works carried out and if so what do they mean by "substantial works"?
Is it possible to just apply for the permission to be extended on economic grounds and have no site works commenced?
Do i wait for another year or so to apply to extend the planning permission?
M
SI 406 of 2010 which kicked in over a year ago allows for the duration of a planning permission to be extended without having any works done at all. There is no guarantee though that the permission would be extended especially if by doing so would be contrary to revised policies or guidelines. Here, in Donegal, all applications for an extension of duration are being granted it seems but that does not necessarily mean that your local authority will adopt the same stance.
Your options are:
1. Start the work and have the blockwork completed before the original permission expires and apply for the extension of duration. Should be a formality.
2. Do nothing and apply for the extension of duration.
Just to note that the applications for the extensions of duration are made during the final 12 months of the life time of the original permission.
There is also a slight chance that the government could reverse SI 406 at some time or other in the future. In fact it will be reversed but Id be pretty confident it wont be done for another 3 or 4 years yet.
As stated above contact your local planner or get a bit of advice from a local professional.0
Advertisement