Greta and the aristocrat sail the high seas to save the planet.

23-10-2019 4:55pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Restaurants pubs tourism retail all booming in DCC. You people just invent your own truths, youre all mad!

I think if you feel that everyone else is mad, it might be time to invest in a mirror.

Thelonious Monk · 23-10-2019 5:08pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I think if you feel that everyone else is mad, it might I time to invest in a mirror.

Why?

Eric Cartman · 23-10-2019 5:17pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Restaurants pubs tourism retail all booming in DCC. You people just invent your own truths, youre all mad!

Nightclubs are closing down every month, retail is constantly struggling to stay alive, restaurants and hotels are doing well because of business travellers, nightlife is being eroded, most ‘entertainment streets are dead by 11pm when all the restaurants shut up, half of dublin is coffee shops and obscure cafe’s that last 12 months.

Most of the drinking in town is after works drinks or students out, dublin has lost a lot of 11.30pm-4am money.

23-10-2019 5:20pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Why?

Because more often than not, it's a decent sign that you may be wrong.

Thelonious Monk · 23-10-2019 5:57pm

So nightclubs are dying because you can't drive around the city centre. Good one Eric. Anyway have a nice evening all im about to get my drink on.

mzungu · 23-10-2019 8:33pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

They do. But if they were asked a simple question, they would be able to answer it without a script. She stuttered and um'd and ah'd. Then passed the question to the panel.

She's a kid. Kids get shy and nervous in situations. The case against her seems to focus on one solitary instance of a botched answer to a question. These things happen, we are all human.

Pa ElGrande · 23-10-2019 9:12pm

You have to apply multivariate analysis to what is going on in city and town centers across the country. It's not just one cause and effect car drivers are very heavily regulated - speed limits, alcohol and drug limits and emission limits are just for openers, there is taxation (road tax and fuel), VRT, insurance and NCT to consider on top of car financing, that makes ownership and operation of a car a much more complex picture.

Increasingly over the years city and town centers have become much less car friendly, you mainly go these places because it is necessary for your work and you need also need a car to drop off and collect your children from schools and child minders.

In Dublins case you also get events at the Point (3arena), Landsdowne road and Croke Park which bring traffic into city adding to the congestion occasionally.

The reality is that most of the nesters (settle down, water and feed children) live in the suburbs and beyond and public transport when what public transport available to use is impractical. At the weekend they use the out of town shopping centers and outlets for their primary shopping, clothing and white goods and DIY purchases. You will not find these businesses in Dublin city center which increasingly is being dominated by coffee shops (feed the workers at lunch) and services that revolve around tourism. O'Connell Streets primary function is as a public transport hub and you can see that in most of the businesses that operate there. There is also internet shopping to consider which has changed the retail landscape and rescued An Posts business as well as increased work from home opportunities (more like extended working hours really.)

Some personal experience about Dublin city transport.

1. It is quicker for me to cycle to work (12 miles mostly uphill) than it is to use public transport. A car would take me 20 minutes to get to work while a bus takes 1 hour 30 minutes at rush hour (including waiting) the Luas takes just as long (I have to walk to the stop).

2. Shopping for specialist gear or big ticket items takes me away from the city center towards the outlets. Even for cycling gear I have to cycle 5 to 6 miles away from the center to get what I want.

3. I have two bikes, one is a cheap fixie that I use for short trips into the center, I dare not risk my good bike in the city center as the likelihood of theft or vandalism is really high.

Essentially what the regulations have done is change the nature of the businesses and employment opportunities that operate around the city center. What effect will more environmental regulations have? Obviously the operating and opportunity costs are changed and what they are likely to do is accelerate trends that are already in place.

Pa ElGrande · 23-10-2019 9:37pm

mzungu wrote: »

She's a kid. Kids get shy and nervous in situations. The case against her seems to focus on one solitary instance of a botched answer to a question. These things happen, we are all human.

There have been several instances of that behaviour observed from her. She is the daughter of an actor and her mother is also in show business so she has training and support from her parents to handle public exposure. She also has a cameraman, journalists accompany her and a public relations team organise her itinerary. She is not a random girl who went on strike, she was picked for the role by her parents and Ingmar Rentzhog months in advance. The review of the mothers book by a Danish journalist who can understand the language is telling about the conditions she grew up in and why "climate change" has become an obsession for her. I have linked to it some time back.

Bottom line there is nothing about Greta campaign that is spontaneous, the people behind her like "Fridays for future" have been developing this since 2015 and have used several young girls over the years, none took off until Greta. Greta may be an innocent in all this, but the people in the backroom are mercenaries.

Tell me how · 25-10-2019 1:42am

Some more information for those doubting there's an issue.

Scientists working for big oil companies predicted the issue with a close to bang on degree of accuracy 37 years ago.

And from a Guardian article on the topic.

“What they did was wrong. They spread doubt about the dangers of climate change,” testified Martin Hoffert, who was a scientist consultant for Exxon Research and Engineering in the 1980s. “The effect of this disinformation was to delay action internally and externally … As a result, in my opinion, homes and livelihoods will likely be destroyed and lives lost.”

And for those curious about the Koch motivations.

The lawyer, Mandy Gunasekara, works with a pro-fossil fuel group associated with the Texas Public Policy Foundation, which Ocasio-Cortez pointed out is funded by the conservative billionaire Koch brothers, who are invested in fossil energy. Gunasekara testified that the hearing is part of a “politically-motivated campaign” to smear an entire industry and argued any warming will be manageable.

weldoninhio · 25-10-2019 9:34am

Tell me how wrote: »

Some more information for those doubting there's an issue.

Scientists working for big oil companies predicted the issue with a close to bang on degree of accuracy 37 years ago.

And from a Guardian article on the topic.

And for those curious about the Koch motivations.

I can't take anything AOC says seriously. Roll on the next election when she is out on her ass.

Fr_Dougal · 25-10-2019 10:27am

Tell me how wrote: »

Some more information for those doubting there's an issue.

Scientists working for big oil companies predicted the issue with a close to bang on degree of accuracy 37 years ago.

And from a Guardian article on the topic.

And for those curious about the Koch motivations.

Interesting. Is this Martin Hoffert guy credible?

JJayoo · 26-10-2019 12:57am

Costs a lot of money to protest, 400 pounds protest wages would be handy tho...

BBC News - 'I gave up a six-figure salary to join Extinction Rebellion'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50087022

"Activists can claim so-called "volunteer living expenses" of up to £400 a week, which set the group back £130,000 for the months of June, July and August alone.

The aim is to make activism accessible to supporters with children to feed or mortgages to pay, Mr Medhurst says. It's a trust-based system, and supporters don't apply for expenses if, like him, they don't need them.

The expenses include £30,000 for hiring toilets, an electricity bill of around £30,000, sound equipment - like microphones and speakers - that cost another £25,000, while the bill to feed 20,000 activists three meals a day was about £50,000.

The group spent another £200,000 on things like leaflets and coaches to bus thousands of activists from as far afield as Scotland.

And then there's the hefty legal bill, following the 1,828 arrests of its activists (although only a fraction have been charged).

Another £120,000 went on "media and messaging" costs in October and it had put aside £70,000 to pay for so-called "regenerative culture", which includes providing "safe spaces" for activists that need to recover after being arrested."

Eric Cartman · 26-10-2019 2:58am

JJayoo wrote: »

Costs a lot of money to protest, 400 pounds protest wages would be handy tho...

BBC News - 'I gave up a six-figure salary to join Extinction Rebellion'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50087022

"Activists can claim so-called "volunteer living expenses" of up to £400 a week, which set the group back £130,000 for the months of June, July and August alone.

The aim is to make activism accessible to supporters with children to feed or mortgages to pay, Mr Medhurst says. It's a trust-based system, and supporters don't apply for expenses if, like him, they don't need them.

The expenses include £30,000 for hiring toilets, an electricity bill of around £30,000, sound equipment - like microphones and speakers - that cost another £25,000, while the bill to feed 20,000 activists three meals a day was about £50,000.

The group spent another £200,000 on things like leaflets and coaches to bus thousands of activists from as far afield as Scotland.

And then there's the hefty legal bill, following the 1,828 arrests of its activists (although only a fraction have been charged).

Another £120,000 went on "media and messaging" costs in October and it had put aside £70,000 to pay for so-called "regenerative culture", which includes providing "safe spaces" for activists that need to recover after being arrested."

Paper printing , diesel generators, diesel busses
Doesnt sound eco friendly to me...

biko · 26-10-2019 12:21pm

Giving money to this new movement is the new trying to offsetting your carbon footprint.

Pa ElGrande · 26-10-2019 9:12pm

Tell me how wrote: »

Some more information for those doubting there's an issue.

Scientists working for big oil companies predicted the issue with a close to bang on degree of accuracy 37 years ago.

And from a Guardian article on the topic.

And for those curious about the Koch motivations.

You should also read Exxons response to the current litigation. My own view is state Democrats are attempting to bankrupt the oil industry so that they can nationalize it and use the funds to underwrite their bankrupt spending programs. Otherwise why would you bite the hand that feeds you? there is no reason for them to pursue this strategy when they could ban consumption of oil in the states they control if they were actually serious about catastrophic anthropogenic global warming, of course that would get them rapidly kicked from office.

Anyway here is the more on the court case in New York

Exxon denies it has deceived public about how emissions rules will affect its bottom line

New York lawsuit claims oil giant has misled investors by overstating its financial health

<snip>
The state has accused Exxon Mobil Corp. , which is based in Irving, Texas, of misleading investors about its financial health as governments impose stricter regulations to combat global warming.

“Exxon Mobil did nothing wrong. Absolutely nothing wrong,” Wells said. “The evidence will show that the allegations in the complaint are bizarre and twisted and not connected to the reality of the truth.”

source

There have been several cases in the United States against Exxon coordinated by Democrat state appointed attorney generals, so far Exxon has prevailed in court so I would not see much hope for this case, but then again it is the New York court system (i.e. the one that lets Wall Street off the hook).

Pa ElGrande · 26-10-2019 10:07pm

Spencerfreeman wrote: »

That is the title of the 'jellybean Gen.' video.
An alternative female view from Sweden. I didn't think such a thing existed until I saw this one.
Definitely not the way Greta sees it.

The video uses Thunberg as clickbait. Her argument is that Swedish politicians would rather talk about "climate change" than the migration welfare crisis they created, that is among other things straining the finances of the Swedish municipalities that took the migrants in and increasing fears among Swedish women that they may be assaulted.

Spencerfreeman · 26-10-2019 10:26pm

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

The video uses Thunberg as clickbait. Her argument is that Swedish politicians would rather talk about "climate change" than the migration welfare crisis they created, that is among other things straining the finances of the Swedish municipalities that took the migrants in and increasing fears among Swedish women that they may be assaulted.

I moved the video to it's own thread before I saw your comment. After watching it again I did think it was less relevant to Greta's voyage and was a wider view of Sweden.

Pa ElGrande · 28-10-2019 5:15pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP8BqnFjSOw

Here is an interesting idea put forward by E. Michael Jones in the above interview with the Swedish based Red ICE TV, that Gretas obsession with climate is the neutral ground that bonds the Thunberg family. He posits that Greta went through puberty at the time her mothers fame has reached its zenith, confused and having no attention from her mother she starts to starve herself which causes a crisis in the family and ultimately brings the mothers career to a halt, both sisters manifest much the same behaviour which ultimately ties the mother to the kitchen to cook their food in a certain way and prevents her from flying away. He also spins it in the context of Swedens social programs like the Million Program, sex education, feminism and disestablishment of the Lutheran Church and further posits the idea that the climate doom cult is a substitute for God, because if there is no God, there is only man and if climate change is natural, then man does not control it and we are doomed.

Tell me how · 28-10-2019 5:30pm

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

Here is an interesting idea put forward by E. Michael Jones in the above interview with the Swedish based Red ICE TV, that Gretas obsession with climate is the neutral ground that bonds the Thunberg family. He posits that Greta went through puberty at the time her mothers fame has reached its zenith, confused and having no attention from her mother she starts to starve herself which causes a crisis in the family and ultimately brings the mothers career to a halt, both sisters manifest much the same behaviour which ultimately ties the mother to the kitchen to cook their food in a certain way and prevents her from flying away. He also spins it in the context of Swedens social programs like the Million Program, sex education, feminism and disestablishment of the Lutheran Church and further posits the idea that the climate doom cult is a substitute for God, because if there is no God, there is only man and if climate change is natural, then man does not control it and we are doomed.

No. It isn't interesting.
It is an attempt by someone to shoehorn a current affairs topic in to some sort of story which reflects their 'unique' views.
It suggests occurrences of which there is no evidence for outside of conjecture.
It would be classed as fake news only it isn't news.

28-10-2019 5:44pm

Tell me how wrote: »

No. It isn't interesting.
It is an attempt by someone to shoehorn a current affairs topic in to some sort of story which reflects their 'unique' views.
It suggests occurrences of which there is no evidence for outside of conjecture.
It would be classed as fake news only it isn't news.

imagine anyone doing that! my gawd!

Tell me how · 28-10-2019 6:02pm

Deleted User wrote: »

imagine anyone doing that! my gawd!

Listen to the scientists.

mzungu · 28-10-2019 6:03pm

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

There have been several instances of that behaviour observed from her. She is the daughter of an actor and her mother is also in show business so she has training and support from her parents to handle public exposure. She also has a cameraman, journalists accompany her and a public relations team organise her itinerary. She is not a random girl who went on strike, she was picked for the role by her parents and Ingmar Rentzhog months in advance. The review of the mothers book by a Danish journalist who can understand the language is telling about the conditions she grew up in and why "climate change" has become an obsession for her. I have linked to it some time back.

Bottom line there is nothing about Greta campaign that is spontaneous, the people behind her like "Fridays for future" have been developing this since 2015 and have used several young girls over the years, none took off until Greta. Greta may be an innocent in all this, but the people in the backroom are mercenaries.

The above creates a narrative around the girl that is based off hearsay and a few random opinions taken from various hatchet job pieces. That does not make it true.

You mention above about spontaneity, I don't think anybody would claim that it was spontaneous. Climate issues have been in and out of the news for nearly four decades or more at this point and recent weather patterns have moved it front and centre the past few years. I think the momentum that has been gathered elsewhere is what is behind her popularity. There is no perfect recipe for making a globally recognised activist, if there was, everybody would be doing it. As always, being in the right place at the right time and having oodles of luck are usually how these things work.

KyussB · 28-10-2019 6:19pm

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

Here is an interesting idea put forward by E. Michael Jones in the above interview with the Swedish based Red ICE TV, that Gretas obsession with climate is the neutral ground that bonds the Thunberg family. He posits that Greta went through puberty at the time her mothers fame has reached its zenith, confused and having no attention from her mother she starts to starve herself which causes a crisis in the family and ultimately brings the mothers career to a halt, both sisters manifest much the same behaviour which ultimately ties the mother to the kitchen to cook their food in a certain way and prevents her from flying away. He also spins it in the context of Swedens social programs like the Million Program, sex education, feminism and disestablishment of the Lutheran Church and further posits the idea that the climate doom cult is a substitute for God, because if there is no God, there is only man and if climate change is natural, then man does not control it and we are doomed.

Where the fuck do you find these people? Here is a choice quote from that guy, blaming the Jews for the holocaust:

Messianic politics has been a recipe for disaster… and the Nazi attempt to exterminate the Jews was a reaction to Jewish Messianism (in the form of Bolshevism) every bit as much as the Chmielnicki pogroms flowed from the excesses of the Jewish tax farmers in the Ukraine.

Pa ElGrande · 29-10-2019 9:59am

The Thunberg-Ernmans: An infinitely sad family story (original article in German)

Malena Ernman is a successful opera singer, member of the Royal Swedish Academy, and has represented Sweden at the 2009 Eurovision Song Contest. Her husband Svante Thunberg is an actor, and after the birth of their daughter Greta (2003) and Beata (2005) he stayed with the children, while Ernman pursued her career. Her engagements took her to Berlin, Paris, Vienna, Amsterdam or Barcelona. Every few months a new city, the family accompanied her: „Our everyday life was incomparable, our everyday life was just wonderful,“ writes Ernman.

But Greta is in fifth grade and suddenly she is not feeling well anymore. She refuses to eat, cries all day and is depressed. Irritatingly, this change is abruptly presented to the reader in just one paragraph, as if it were a consistent development. Instead, you’d like to ask if everything went so well by then. On the other hand, Malena Ernman’s farewell to the opera is less closely described because she now decides to take a shorter career. On November 2, 2014 she gives her last opera performance in Sweden; This evening is described on at least five pages - including a theatrical fainting spell by Ernman. Typical opera diva? In the following, when she explains the collapse of her two children, she maintains this peculiar tone, vacillating between stage drama and a strange serenity.

google translate

The article is written by Ulrike Stockmann and is based on Greta Thunberg’s mother, Malena Ernman book "Scenes from the Heart", which describes Greta’s past life and her path to becoming an environmental activist but that's only a superficial story when it come to this family's drama. One point Stockmann picks up on is parental neglect and how the mother deflects from this.

"Burnt-out humans on a burned-out planet"

In general, she does not seem to be aware of the essentials of not wanting to get to the heart of her problems. She describes herself as a social phobist, who barely survives a premiere party and after appearances in Stockholm flees the theater „even in front of the spectators“ and wears her clothes on a bicycle. But that makes them „immensely effective“. This permanent beauty of things that are not beautiful, but stressful, Ernman stands in the recognition of their own person, but also the nature of their children in the way. On the one hand, she fights against the fact that others stamp their daughters for their diagnoses. On the other hand, she stylizes these handicaps in the next moment to „super powers“. Not once in the book does she question herself or her husband as a parent. Blame are always the others - the school, the society, the health system. Or climate change.

„Because we were ****ty. I was ****ty. Svante was ****ty. The kids were ****ty. The planet was ****ty. Even the dog was ****ty ", it goes on. A projection of your own misfortune on the whole globe. The perfect excuse so that Malena Ernman does not have to face any in-house causative research for her misery.

URL="https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.achgut.com%2Fartikel%2Fdie_thunberg_ernmans_eine_unendlich_traurige_familiengeschichte"]google translate[/URL

At the end she reaches a similar conclusion to yesterdays post that climate change gives Malena Ernman and her family the opportunity to ignore their own internal problems and externalise it, the rationale being the planet is sick therefore the Thunbergs are sick.

Pa ElGrande · 29-10-2019 10:21am

mzungu wrote: »

The above creates a narrative around the girl that is based off hearsay and a few random opinions taken from various hatchet job pieces. That does not make it true.

The reviews of the mothers book by independent commentators in different countries seem to reach much the same ends and one that is not favourable to the parents rather than deal with their problems they have externalised them.

According to Mikael Jalving, the book is a story of "poor" Greta Thunberg.

The book is presented as a 'climate book', but in addition to missing data and scientific information about the climate, Mikael Jalving believes it is a book about a family in disintegration.

»The book contains a story of failure. On the surface, the book is about a sick society where we are drowning in pollution and materialism, lies and deception. But the mother, who is also the author, is blind to the illnesses of her daughters, ”says Mikael Jalving.

google translate. (original in Danish)

KyussB · 29-10-2019 11:54am

The same Ulrike Stockmann who runs a Libertarian think tank which regularly works alongside Koch funded think tanks like Cato - writing in a publication known for denialism regarding the leading human role in tipping climate change - right...

Again: Where, exactly, did you come across that? Was it linked from a site you read? (which?) Linked in a news feed or mailing list? Did you Google it out, yourself?

Mikael Jalving is just an xenophobic hack, who has it in for Muslim's - no surprise that everyone you cite is far to the right, most often economically when not politically.

gozunda · 29-10-2019 12:05pm

KyussB wrote: »

The same Ulrike Stockmann who runs a Libertarian think tank which regularly works alongside Koch funded think tanks like Cato - writing in a publication known for denialism regarding the leading human role in tipping climate change - right...

Again: Where, exactly, did you come across that? Was it linked from a site you read? (which?) Linked in a news feed or mailing list? Did you Google it out, yourself?

Mikael Jalving is just an xenophobic hack, who has it in for Muslim's - no surprise that everyone you cite is far to the right, most often economically when not politically.

Oh ffs not again ...

blueshade · 29-10-2019 2:42pm

I find Greta's parents a bizarre pair. They seem to take no responsibility for their children's problems, they seem to have a kind of weird mix of detachment from their illnesses on the one hand and on the other hand seem happy to exploit their children for financial gain. The kids have had their personal data sold in their mother's book, which now has Greta's photo on the cover, well...Greata is going to sell more copies than her mother. She claims that when Greta was 9 or so she decided to become vegan and declared that the family weren't going to fly anymore because of her fears about the environment. What parent allows than nonsense and feeds their child's paranoia? The parents are awful, they've exploited Greta and now they're doing the same with their other daughter. The parents are hoping to launch their other daughters singing career off the back of Greta's fame.

Pa ElGrande · 29-10-2019 2:46pm

KyussB wrote: »

. . .
Again: Where, exactly, did you come across that? Was it linked from a site you read? (which?) Linked in a news feed or mailing list? Did you Google it out, yourself?
. . .

Buy your own subscription to the Koch information network. :rolleyes:

You can also get information from the Irish Climate Science Forum.

Professor Moriarty · 29-10-2019 3:12pm

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

Buy your own subscription to the Koch information network. :rolleyes:

You can also get information from the Irish Climate Science Forum.

That website is very short on information. Who is Jim O'Brien? What are his qualifications apart from being a self-employed PR consultant. Who are the other people involved in ICSF?

Pa ElGrande · 29-10-2019 3:17pm

blueshade wrote: »

I find Greta's parents a bizarre pair. They seem to take no responsibility for their children's problems, they seem to have a kind of weird mix of detachment from their illnesses on the one hand and on the other hand seem happy to exploit their children for financial gain. The kids have had their personal data sold in their mother's book, which now has Greta's photo on the cover, well...Greata is going to sell more copies than her mother. She claims that when Greta was 9 or so she decided to become vegan and declared that the family weren't going to fly anymore because of her fears about the environment. What parent allows than nonsense and feeds their child's paranoia? The parents are awful, they've exploited Greta and now they're doing the same with their other daughter. The parents are hoping to launch their other daughters singing career off the back of Greta's fame.

Dunno. They area show business couple who have to pay the bills like the rest of us and that life means travelling between venues and having to drag the children along with you. Someone with Gretas condition does benefit from having a stable and defined environment and unfortunately the mother appears to have neglected her daughters at a time in their lives when they could have done with her support. Obviously with hindsight the Aspergers diagnosis could have been made earlier and to be fair its not the parents fault most parents will not know about the condition and how to deal with it. The interesting consequence is that Greta managed to bind her mother to the kitchen and prevent her flying away and that's not a bad outcome from Gretas or her sisters point of view being able to command their mothers attention.

Pa ElGrande · 29-10-2019 3:31pm

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

That website is very short on information. Who is Jim O'Brien? What are his qualifications apart from being a self-employed PR consultant. Who are the other people involved in ICSF?

Look up his employment history - Cement Roadstone Holdings. Why would that matter you ask? But so what - well those carbon credits hit the bottom line and work their way into the cost of your new house or pavement outside your house.

Professor Moriarty · 29-10-2019 3:35pm

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

Look up his employment history - Cement Roadstone Holdings. Why would that matter you ask? But so what - well those carbon credits hit the bottom line and work their way into the cost of your new house or pavement outside your house.

So he has a degree in electrical engineering. Not exactly relevant to climate change science. What about the other people he talks about? "Irish scientists, engineers and other professions". Who are they?

Pa ElGrande · 29-10-2019 3:45pm

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

So he has a degree in electrical engineering. Not exactly relevant to climate change science. What about the other people he talks about? "Irish scientists, engineers and other professions". Who are they?

Why not? There is no such thing as a climate science degree, the subject touches on almost every discipline of science, which is most useful for getting grants to support your work.

Have you met the Connellys yet? They have a few papers on the subject if you would like to take the time to read and critique them. Greta says we should listen to the scientists.

jimgoose · 29-10-2019 3:46pm

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

So he has a degree in electrical engineering. Not exactly relevant to climate change science. What about the other people he talks about? "Irish scientists, engineers and other professions". Who are they?

Not exactly relevant to "climate change science"? The man is an engineer, FFS - a real one!

Professor Moriarty · 29-10-2019 3:57pm

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

Why not? There is no such thing as a climate science degree, the subject touches on almost every discipline of science, which is most useful for getting grants to support your work.

Have you met the Connellys yet? They have a few papers on the subject if you would like to take the time to read and critique them. Greta says we should listen to the scientists.

I'm not sure what your point is? Who are those people? Why are you linking to them? What have they said that you find important?

Professor Moriarty · 29-10-2019 3:59pm

jimgoose wrote: »

Not exactly relevant to "climate change science"? The man is an engineer, FFS - a real one!

Yeah. And one of the "Connellys" is a teacher. A real teacher!

Pa ElGrande · 29-10-2019 4:38pm

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I'm not sure what your point is? Who are those people? Why are you linking to them? What have they said that you find important?

I doubt you interested in their papers you might like to get some more background on them and an introduction to their work in a recent interview with them on Paddy Holohan's No Shame Podcast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ94yX0BC2g

Professor Moriarty · 29-10-2019 4:40pm

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

I doubt you interested in their papers you might like to get some more background on them and an introduction to their work in a recent interview with them on Paddy Holohan's No Shame Podcast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ94yX0BC2g

No, I'm not watching a youtube video. Please set out your argument in your own words and feel free to quote any credible sources.

Pa ElGrande · 29-10-2019 5:19pm

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

No, I'm not watching a youtube video. Please set out your argument in your own words and feel free to quote any credible sources.

Are you implying that Paddy is not credible?

Tell me how · 29-10-2019 5:34pm

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

Are you implying that Paddy is not credible?

Are you suggesting Paddy is the source, or is it those he is interviewing?

Firing up a 1 Hr 44 minute video and suggesting people review before questioning the participants is nonsensical.

Professor Moriarty · 29-10-2019 5:35pm

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

Are you implying that Paddy is not credible?

No. I'm stating that you are unable to make a credible argument.

KyussB · 29-10-2019 6:05pm

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

Buy your own subscription to the Koch information network. :rolleyes:

You can also get information from the Irish Climate Science Forum.

Well the ICSF would be a good recommendation then - seeing as the institution was inaugerated by hosting the Koch-funded Cato linked climate denier, Richard Lindzen.

Do you view funding by the Koch's as discreditable in any way?

Dickerty · 30-10-2019 10:30am

weldoninhio wrote: »

I can't take anything AOC says seriously. Roll on the next election when she is out on her ass.

Except she won't be, she'll go even further.

What exactly is your issue with her? All she does in this clip is repeat predictions he said or statements he made so he can confirm. Or do you not like that a liberal is making Big Oil look bad? Like they need the help...

The_Conductor · 30-10-2019 10:48am

Dickerty wrote: »

Except she won't be, she'll go even further.

What exactly is your issue with her? All she does in this clip is repeat predictions he said or statements he made so he can confirm. Or do you not like that a liberal is making Big Oil look bad? Like they need the help...

She appeals to a particular constituency- in the same manner that Gretta does (albeit, Gretta has a broader appeal- but it encapsulates the same cohort).

The bigger issue is a complete and utter disillusionment with the current global leadership- and out of this disillusionment, a grasping for someone, anyone, who is willing to stand up, to put themselves on a pedestal, and who seems to represent the ideals that most people aspire towards (despite the simple fact that they may not be willing to put their hands where their mouths are).

Idealism is all well and good- however, it has a cost associated with it- and the failure to acknowledge that there is a cost and it must be bourne both by individuals and corporate bodies- tarnishes the feel good message that people are so happy to buy into.

Gretta is selling a message in irrefutable, easily digestible chunks, that appeals to the masses. She is very conveniently selling this message in a black and white manner- with little acknowledgement that the world isn't black and white- its a series of compromises, and its this complete lack of acknowledgement of this basis tenet of life, how by choosing A we give up on choosing B, or accept that B is vastly more expensive than had we not chosen A- is unfortunately selling snake oil to the masses.

The fact that we are causing untold damage to the environment, to our health- and to the future well being of the planet- is irrefutable. Its a very easy message to sell- because you'd want to be a complete conartist to try and deny it. The difficult bit is drilling down into the implications and costs of how to remediate the damage we are causing. A complete lack of looking at the bigger picture- is simply irresponsible- and indeed- focusing on the little things- while noble, is also naïve.

If Gretta's message does not bear fruit- and there is no indication that it will, as most people are only too happy to pay platitudes to her message, but not cold hard cash, the reason it will fail- is precisely because its naïve and not thought out properly.

The entire global political system is based on playing off one constituency against another- alongside a healthy dose of self preservation for politicians whenever any one constituency risks the game of consensus, and it is only a game.

Nothing short of a seachange- a global seachange, will bear fruit- and it will involve some foul medicine for the masses that they are not being prepared for.

Will people still be willing to protest when there is an actual cost spelled out to them?

KyussB · 30-10-2019 12:12pm

Have you looked at rents and property prices lately? Everyone is already paying a massively inflated cost of living - and it's entirely down to economic/political manipulation, to exploit the population - nothing to do with material concerns like climate change.

Policies like the Green New Deal work to eliminate those exploitative rent-seeking costs placed upon society - and provide decent well paid work for anyone who wants it, working to implement policies/projects fighting climate change, while at it - that means maintaining a good standard of living for everyone, and making it way more affordable - especially compared to the exploitative present.

If enough government resources worldwide were put into the right R&D programs and infrastructure projects, I think there is a fair chance of achieving a Closed Carbon Cycle economy relatively quickly, while maintaiing/expanding current standards of living - there is a lot of low-hanging-fruit out there, in terms of technology for renewable energy generation and storage (without overreliance on rare earths), and carbon sequestration combined with reproducing it as usable fuel again.

We pretty much are barely doing anything, right now. The difference between what the private sector is doing now, compared to what governments worldwide could be doing with exponentially greater ability to command resources, is enormous.

weldoninhio · 30-10-2019 1:01pm

Dickerty wrote: »

Except she won't be, she'll go even further.

What exactly is your issue with her? All she does in this clip is repeat predictions he said or statements he made so he can confirm. Or do you not like that a liberal is making Big Oil look bad? Like they need the help...

She will be out on her arse. Her constituents have cottoned on that she doesn't give a rats about them and wants to push her own national profile. She won't be re-elected.

PostWoke · 30-10-2019 9:12pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

Idealism is all well and good- however, it has a cost associated with it

Would you say this cost is more or less than complete environmental collapse?

The_Conductor wrote: »

Gretta is selling a message in irrefutable, easily digestible chunks, that appeals to the masses.

Ah shure aren't you smarter than everyone else just like your mammy always said.

thelawman · 01-11-2019 6:38pm

It appears Greta has gone the wrong way!

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/greta-thunberg-appeals-for-help-after-travelling-the-wrong-way-11851305

Tell me how · 01-11-2019 6:41pm

thelawman wrote: »

It appears Greta has gone the wrong way!

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/greta-thunberg-appeals-for-help-after-travelling-the-wrong-way-11851305

She is of course joking about her travelling the wrong way.

Current domestic situation in Chile has led to the conference being moved.

Chilean President Sebastian Pinera announced on Wednesday that his country would have to pull out of hosting the meeting, as well as a summit of Asia-Pacific leaders, because it is dealing with violent anti-government protests.

Expect she will have to fly to Spain if she is to make the conference. Her detractors will enjoy that.

Greta and the aristocrat sail the high seas to save the planet.

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