Dun Laoghaire Traffic & Commuting Chat

ted1 · 05-08-2020 12:24am

Homesick Alien wrote: »

Bureaucracy I think is the word your looking for there. If people feel strongly against the new cycleways they will let local councillors/media know and if the support is there they can change it. That's democracy.

No it’s a case of the loudest dog barking.

Democracy would be a vote or a decision made by delegates responsibility

markpb · 05-08-2020 8:48am

pm1977x wrote: »

But once the schools are back and more professions return to work it may just overload the roads throughout the area at rush hour, it was already bad so unless there's a huge uptake in cycling I can't see it being anything but a disaster (for drivers and overloaded bus users, but perhaps that's the plan).

The advise is for people who can work from home to continue doing so for the rest of the year. There will definitely be some increase in commuters (of all kinds) but I can’t see a return to last years numbers.

In any case, if the cycle facilities are good enough, hopefully we’ll see some people switching from driving to walking. This is especially likely for school trips but CSO/Census days says the average commute is very short, definitely within easy cycling distance, so we might see some transfer there too.

Mav11 · 05-08-2020 10:55am

Was walking on Seapoint Ave., Monday and it was fantastic with the reduction in traffic and increased cyclists and walkers. Thought crossed my mind wouldn't it be great if all of Seapoint Ave, from say, Alma Rd to the Purty could be completely traffic free, save for access??

Blut2 · 05-08-2020 11:49am

Mav11 wrote: »

Was walking on Seapoint Ave., Monday and it was fantastic with the reduction in traffic and increased cyclists and walkers. Thought crossed my mind wouldn't it be great if all of Seapoint Ave, from say, Alma Rd to the Purty could be completely traffic free, save for access??

You'd probably only get away with going as far as Link Road (ie at Salthill DART station), a lot of people drive to/get dropped off there, and the big apartment blocks there have a lot of cars going in and out.

But otherwise - yeah it'd be great. Theres no real need for motor access along that strip given Monkstown Avenue is so closeby and going in the same direction. It'd create a really nice beach front boulevard vibe. In summer they could let food stalls operate like in the People's Park.

Tabnabs · 05-08-2020 12:21pm

Is Costa Coffee above Eason's ever going to reopen, does anybody know?

Homesick Alien · 05-08-2020 12:57pm

ted1 wrote: »

No it’s a case of the loudest dog barking.

Democracy would be a vote or a decision made by delegates responsibility

Yeah months of consultation, several votes and then finding out that the budget is gone anyway. Complaining about nothing being done and then things being done without your permission first. There needs to be a change of mindset.

Sheep Shagger · 05-08-2020 1:01pm

Tabnabs wrote: »

Is Costa Coffee above Eason's ever going to reopen, does anybody know?

They've only just started reopening their outlets....thought they all reopened at the same time?

Tabnabs · 05-08-2020 1:03pm

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

They've only just started reopening their outlets....thought they all reopened at the same time?

Have been past it a few times and chairs all seem stacked on tables and some Eason;s displays stored in the window. Looks dead?

Larbre34 · 05-08-2020 2:09pm

B0ll0x to cycling. The most important thing now and for the next year or more is economic support and incentivisation. Its the only priority.

If these over-zealous cycling highways discourage customers and visitors or inhibit deliveries or delay people going about their normal business or create all day traffic jams in the area, especially when schools return, then the Council will have serious questions to answer in my opinion.

Yes, they are advertised as "temporary", but thats a huge amount of physical works for a temporary measure. I suspect that the people of the area are being set up to be railroaded into accepting them permanently and theres nothing democratic about that.

Its all fine and well to see sepia filtered shots on social media, of families in convoy on a warm evening cycling to DL for a 99, but when we get to November and wet Tuesday mornings when people are trying to get kids to school while maintaining distancing bubbles and all that and the Monkstown Road is jammed with traffic while the water runs off a vacant cycle track, serious questions will have to be asked about the real value if this imposition. If any of the local Councillors read this and I know some do, the questions will be coming your way....

Homesick Alien · 05-08-2020 3:42pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

B0ll0x to cycling. The most important thing now and for the next year or more is economic support and incentivisation. Its the only priority.

If these over-zealous cycling highways discourage customers and visitors or inhibit deliveries or delay people going about their normal business or create all day traffic jams in the area, especially when schools return, then the Council will have serious questions to answer in my opinion.

Yes, they are advertised as "temporary", but thats a huge amount of physical works for a temporary measure. I suspect that the people of the area are being set up to be railroaded into accepting them permanently and theres nothing democratic about that.

Its all fine and well to see sepia filtered shots on social media, of families in convoy on a warm evening cycling to DL for a 99, but when we get to November and wet Tuesday mornings when people are trying to get kids to school while maintaining distancing bubbles and all that and the Monkstown Road is jammed with traffic while the water runs off a vacant cycle track, serious questions will have to be asked about the real value if this imposition. If any of the local Councillors read this and I know some do, the questions will be coming your way....

If you're anti cycling then obviously the cycle paths aren't going to appeal to you. You already know the health, environmental and social benefits to cycling but you dont care about those things. The money should always be used for something else more important to you. Starting an argument with "Bollox to cycling" is fairly indicative. I'm guessing if it had simply been a widening of footpaths for social distancing you wouldn't be as angry.

Larbre34 · 05-08-2020 6:13pm

I'm not anti-cycling. I'm anti the overwhelming evidence of investment by DLR Council in this economic shock being on cycling facilities because their are a few zealots on the management looking to take advantage of the crisis. I'm very much behind the streetscape changes made in the various villages to facilitate increased pedestrian capacity and outdoor dining etc, but in my opinion the next priority should be on making car parking cheaper and as accessible as possible to support the businesses that are on their knees, as many other Councils are evidently doing.

mr_fegelien · 05-08-2020 6:16pm

Can I ask, is Dun Laoghaire a safe area? My mothers friend from Germany and is torn between moving to Dun Laoghaire and Stillorgan next year.

I lived there and to be honest, it's a bit sketchy (moved in 2018 so I don't know what it's like now). There's a few estates around that make it a bit unsafe I've heard but nothing like north Dublin.

qb123 · 05-08-2020 6:39pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

I'm not anti-cycling. I'm anti the overwhelming evidence of investment by DLR Council in this economic shock being on cycling facilities because their are a few zealots on the management looking to take advantage of the crisis. I'm very much behind the streetscape changes made in the various villages to facilitate increased pedestrian capacity and outdoor dining etc, but in my opinion the next priority should be on making car parking cheaper and as accessible as possible to support the businesses that are on their knees, as many other Councils are evidently doing.

Cyclists support business too, I think you should know. And more likely to linger in a town as they don't have to worry about parking expiring or getting out ahead of the traffic. And how cheap do you think parking should be? Average rate around DL is around €1.50 per hour which seems pretty cheap for occupying a public space. People moan about parking in DL, but then go off to Dundrum to do their shopping where the parking costs more. Cars still dominate the overwhelming majority of roads in the area, most of which don't have even a painted cycle track at the side of the road. When finally a small stretch is given over to them, some people can't but help raising red herrings about their detrimental effect, even when these are disproved by international studies. Towns don't lose business, though they might lose some cars; there's nothing specific to inhibit deliveries; and the area becomes more pleasant due to lower traffic. And yes, we all know we can get some bad weather at times, but some people will migrate to using this daily to get to school or work - all year round - to the benefit of users of other modes of transport.

05-08-2020 7:42pm

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Can I ask, is Dun Laoghaire a safe area? My mothers friend from Germany and is torn between moving to Dun Laoghaire and Stillorgan next year.

I lived there and to be honest, it's a bit sketchy (moved in 2018 so I don't know what it's like now). There's a few estates around that make it a bit unsafe I've heard but nothing like north Dublin.

Like any large town, it has it’s rough areas, but even the worse areas are no Ballymun.

Personally I would prefer Dun Laoghaire to Stillorgan. If you can afford the Glasthule/Sandycove/Dalkey area it is a fantastic place to live.

Larbre34 · 05-08-2020 8:10pm

Aegir wrote: »

Like any large town, it has it’s rough areas, but even the worse areas are no Ballymun.

Personally I would prefer Dun Laoghaire to Stillorgan. If you can afford the Glasthule/Sandycove/Dalkey area it is a fantastic place to live.

Yeah Stillorgan is fine and about as safe as anywhere could be, but its really just a large suburb of housing estates from about 1940 onwards. Dun Laoghaire is a nicer setting, by the sea, greater variety of architecture and heritage etc, excellent transport connection to the City and really there are not any places that are persistently rough. Certainly anywhere that was a bit dodgy in my youth has matured pretty well with economic prosperity.

If you're talking about an older person looking to move over to retire I'd say Dun Laoghaire, Monkstown, Glenageary, Glasthule are all excellent to enjoy a peaceful and enjoyable life.

ted1 · 05-08-2020 9:12pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

B0ll0x to cycling. The most important thing now and for the next year or more is economic support and incentivisation. Its the only priority.

If these over-zealous cycling highways discourage customers and visitors or inhibit deliveries or delay people going about their normal business or create all day traffic jams in the area, especially when schools return, then the Council will have serious questions to answer in my opinion.

Yes, they are advertised as "temporary", but thats a huge amount of physical works for a temporary measure. I suspect that the people of the area are being set up to be railroaded into accepting them permanently and theres nothing democratic about that.

Its all fine and well to see sepia filtered shots on social media, of families in convoy on a warm evening cycling to DL for a 99, but when we get to November and wet Tuesday mornings when people are trying to get kids to school while maintaining distancing bubbles and all that and the Monkstown Road is jammed with traffic while the water runs off a vacant cycle track, serious questions will have to be asked about the real value if this imposition. If any of the local Councillors read this and I know some do, the questions will be coming your way....

Or , you opinion/rant may be wrong and cyclists can rejuvenate the area. It’s still a work in progress , not yet complete and the traffic delays are due to resignalling of the traffic lights as opposed to the cycle lanes.

If any cllrs are reading this. It’s great , really appreciate the new Lane

ted1 · 05-08-2020 9:16pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

I'm not anti-cycling. I'm anti the overwhelming evidence of investment by DLR Council in this economic shock being on cycling facilities because their are a few zealots on the management looking to take advantage of the crisis. I'm very much behind the streetscape changes made in the various villages to facilitate increased pedestrian capacity and outdoor dining etc, but in my opinion the next priority should be on making car parking cheaper and as accessible as possible to support the businesses that are on their knees, as many other Councils are evidently doing.

What shops are there on the sea front between Blackrock and Sandycove ? The cycle path has no bearing on them. In fact more traffic is being routed past the shops on DL, Monkstown and glasthule so may benefit them

AndrewJRenko · 05-08-2020 9:39pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

I'm not anti-cycling.

Larbre34 wrote: »

B0ll0x to cycling.

You're hilarious, really.

Larbre34 wrote: »

I'm not anti-cycling. I'm anti the overwhelming evidence of investment by DLR Council in this economic shock being on cycling facilities because their are a few zealots on the management looking to take advantage of the crisis. I'm very much behind the streetscape changes made in the various villages to facilitate increased pedestrian capacity and outdoor dining etc, but in my opinion the next priority should be on making car parking cheaper and as accessible as possible to support the businesses that are on their knees, as many other Councils are evidently doing.

So cycling highways discourage customers and visitors eh? Are you sure about that?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2018/11/16/cyclists-spend-40-more-in-londons-shops-than-motorists/

Did it strike you that maybe people don't like spending much time in glorified car parks, but are generally happier to spend time and money in environments that are a bit more pleasant and less dangerous than car parks?

Larbre34 wrote: »

B0ll0x to cycling. The most important thing now and for the next year or more is economic support and incentivisation. Its the only priority.

If these over-zealous cycling highways discourage customers and visitors or inhibit deliveries or delay people going about their normal business or create all day traffic jams in the area, especially when schools return, then the Council will have serious questions to answer in my opinion.

Yes, they are advertised as "temporary", but thats a huge amount of physical works for a temporary measure. I suspect that the people of the area are being set up to be railroaded into accepting them permanently and theres nothing democratic about that.

Its all fine and well to see sepia filtered shots on social media, of families in convoy on a warm evening cycling to DL for a 99, but when we get to November and wet Tuesday mornings when people are trying to get kids to school while maintaining distancing bubbles and all that and the Monkstown Road is jammed with traffic while the water runs off a vacant cycle track, serious questions will have to be asked about the real value if this imposition. If any of the local Councillors read this and I know some do, the questions will be coming your way....

Why would you be be sitting in a road jammed with traffic when the cycle lane is vacant? [BTW, the reason that it's vacant isn't that it's not being used. The reason that it's vacant is that cyclists don't travel round with four empty seats all day, so they tend not to bunch up quite so much]. Why wouldn't you take a bike in these situations?

Mav11 · 05-08-2020 9:59pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

B0ll0x to cycling. The most important thing now and for the next year or more is economic support and incentivisation. Its the only priority.

If these over-zealous cycling highways discourage customers and visitors or inhibit deliveries or delay people going about their normal business or create all day traffic jams in the area, especially when schools return, then the Council will have serious questions to answer in my opinion.

Yes, they are advertised as "temporary", but thats a huge amount of physical works for a temporary measure. I suspect that the people of the area are being set up to be railroaded into accepting them permanently and theres nothing democratic about that.

Its all fine and well to see sepia filtered shots on social media, of families in convoy on a warm evening cycling to DL for a 99, but when we get to November and wet Tuesday mornings when people are trying to get kids to school while maintaining distancing bubbles and all that and the Monkstown Road is jammed with traffic while the water runs off a vacant cycle track, serious questions will have to be asked about the real value if this imposition. If any of the local Councillors read this and I know some do, the questions will be coming your way....

They are not mutually exclusive. Probably mutually supportive.

Seaswimmer · 05-08-2020 10:27pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

B0ll0x to cycling. The most important thing now and for the next year or more is economic support and incentivisation. Its the only priority.

If these over-zealous cycling highways discourage customers and visitors or inhibit deliveries or delay people going about their normal business or create all day traffic jams in the area, especially when schools return, then the Council will have serious questions to answer in my opinion.

Yes, they are advertised as "temporary", but thats a huge amount of physical works for a temporary measure. I suspect that the people of the area are being set up to be railroaded into accepting them permanently and theres nothing democratic about that.

Its all fine and well to see sepia filtered shots on social media, of families in convoy on a warm evening cycling to DL for a 99, but when we get to November and wet Tuesday mornings when people are trying to get kids to school while maintaining distancing bubbles and all that and the Monkstown Road is jammed with traffic while the water runs off a vacant cycle track, serious questions will have to be asked about the real value if this imposition. If any of the local Councillors read this and I know some do, the questions will be coming your way....

This may interest you (and others)

https://www.dlrcoco.ie/en/news/general-news/dlr-announce-launch-active-school-travel-initiative

May help alleviate some of the panic around schools reopening

Larbre34 · 05-08-2020 11:46pm

Seaswimmer wrote: »

This may interest you (and others)

https://www.dlrcoco.ie/en/news/general-news/dlr-announce-launch-active-school-travel-initiative

May help alleviate some of the panic around schools reopening

I don't think its panic, there is a lot of remaining uncertainty though.

Again, that release is all very worthy but its dependent on a) a critical mass of kids living within a relatively short distance of their schools and b) a parent or guardian having the time available to make that journey, not to mind the return journey mid-afternoon when kids are reliant on Grandparents, minders and after school activity providers who will have neither the time nor capacity to herd young kids on foot or bikes.

I understand people scoffing at my attitude to cycling priority etc, but really I see no evidence for the assertion that all is changed utterly forever and that as we get busier and return to something akin to a normal pattern, people won't return to transport methods that are safe and flexible for them, ie their cars. I mean we know the distances of commutes into Dublin and we also know that the already stretched public transport will be at a forced 50% capacity, or less, for the foreseeable future. Why is there this fantasy that cars will also disappear?

.anon. · 05-08-2020 11:56pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

B0ll0x to cycling. The most important thing now and for the next year or more is economic support and incentivisation. Its the only priority.

If these over-zealous cycling highways discourage customers and visitors or inhibit deliveries or delay people going about their normal business or create all day traffic jams in the area, especially when schools return, then the Council will have serious questions to answer in my opinion.

Yes, they are advertised as "temporary", but thats a huge amount of physical works for a temporary measure. I suspect that the people of the area are being set up to be railroaded into accepting them permanently and theres nothing democratic about that.

Its all fine and well to see sepia filtered shots on social media, of families in convoy on a warm evening cycling to DL for a 99, but when we get to November and wet Tuesday mornings when people are trying to get kids to school while maintaining distancing bubbles and all that and the Monkstown Road is jammed with traffic while the water runs off a vacant cycle track, serious questions will have to be asked about the real value if this imposition. If any of the local Councillors read this and I know some do, the questions will be coming your way....

Cars, not cycling infrastructure, create traffic jams. There are simply too many of them, especially the parked ones. Pretty much every bus route in and out of Dún Laoghaire is lined with parked cars. Whatever the time of day or night, whether you're going up or down York Rd, George's St or Mounttown Rd Lwr on a bus, your journey is guaranteed to be delayed by parked cars. Mounttown Rd Lwr, where everyone has a driveway, is a particularly bad spot. In addition to cycling infrastructure (which hopefully isn't just temporary), more buses are needed - and unobstructed routes too, which means banning on-street storage of private property. Bollocks to cars, tbh.

markpb · 06-08-2020 8:13am

Larbre34 wrote: »

Again, that release is all very worthy but its dependent on a) a critical mass of kids living within a relatively short distance of their schools and b) a parent or guardian having the time available to make that journey, not to mind the return journey mid-afternoon when kids are reliant on Grandparents, minders and after school activity providers who will have neither the time nor capacity to herd young kids on foot or bikes

At primary level in urban areas, most kids will live very close to their school. It would be extremely rare for someone to live a distance away that would require driving. There may be other reasons why driving is preferable (for parents). I live half-way between two primary schools, both with great walking/cycle routes and both are thronged with kids arriving on foot, scooter or bike. Of course there are kids who are driven to school but they’re very much in the minority. I’m not sure what the problem with grandparents is, plenty of kids scoot or cycle alongside their grandparents.

At secondary level, there’s a greater portion of kids who travel significant distances to get to school but for those living within a few kilometres of school, cycling is still quite possible, especially where safe cycling routes are provided.

Cyrus · 07-08-2020 4:10pm

markpb wrote: »

At primary level in urban areas, most kids will live very close to their school. It would be extremely rare for someone to live a distance away that would require driving. There may be other reasons why driving is preferable (for parents). I live half-way between two primary schools, both with great walking/cycle routes and both are thronged with kids arriving on foot, scooter or bike. Of course there are kids who are driven to school but they’re very much in the minority. I’m not sure what the problem with grandparents is, plenty of kids scoot or cycle alongside their grandparents.

At secondary level, there’s a greater portion of kids who travel significant distances to get to school but for those living within a few kilometres of school, cycling is still quite possible, especially where safe cycling routes are provided.

thats a bit of a simplification no? we arent big drivers, as a family of 4 we own one car that does about 6,000 miles a year, when we can walk we walk.

But the difference between walking our daughter to school and taking a detour to drop the baby at the creche and walking back home again and driving the same route is probably 45 minutes, at least.

if someone is working from home and doing the drop offs thats probably not 45 min they have free.

ted1 · 07-08-2020 6:36pm

Cyrus wrote: »

thats a bit of a simplification no? we arent big drivers, as a family of 4 we own one car that does about 6,000 miles a year, when we can walk we walk.

But the difference between walking our daughter to school and taking a detour to drop the baby at the creche and walking back home again and driving the same route is probably 45 minutes, at least.

if someone is working from home and doing the drop offs thats probably not 45 min they have free.

Why walk ? Cycle it’s much faster.

Cyrus · 07-08-2020 7:17pm

It is but it’s less safe , each to their own but I’m not keen on cycling with a 2 year old and a 6 year old on busy roads .

And nothing I’ve seen of families doing it at weekends on lockdown has convinced me any different!

ted1 · 07-08-2020 8:53pm

Good thing they are building segregated cycling paths.

07-08-2020 9:04pm

ted1 wrote: »

Good thing they are building segregated cycling paths.

All those schools on Seapoint Avenue must be very grateful

Larbre34 · 07-08-2020 9:16pm

Aegir wrote: »

All those schools on Seapoint Avenue must be very grateful

I'd say the residents are incandescent.

I saw some cycling zealot on twitter posting a photo of a furniture delivery van parked on the cycleway unloading into one of those homes and attempting to name and shame them. The fact the truck could either pull up there or block the remaining single traffic lane completely, clearly escaped their reasoning.

If I lived there I'd already be in Court over it.

AndrewJRenko · 07-08-2020 9:31pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

I'd say the residents are incandescent.

I saw some cycling zealot on twitter posting a photo of a furniture delivery van parked on the cycleway unloading into one of those homes and attempting to name and shame them. The fact the truck could either pull up there or block the remaining single traffic lane completely, clearly escaped their reasoning.
.

Why shouldn't they block the remaining single traffic lane? Why is it acceptable to block cyclists and frequently pedestrians but completely unacceptable to block motor vehicles?

Cyrus wrote: »

It is but it’s less safe , each to their own but I’m not keen on cycling with a 2 year old and a 6 year old on busy roads .

And nothing I’ve seen of families doing it at weekends on lockdown has convinced me any different!

Is it really less safe?

Dun Laoghaire Traffic & Commuting Chat

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