Dun Laoghaire Traffic & Commuting Chat

Larbre34

One of the Councillors tells me those buildings are to be demolished and the space made into a public square.

I'm not fully convinced of the idea myself, unless it takes in a full review of traffic flow and the condition of convent lane alongside. But its not a bad little suntrap, somewhere for a few farmers market stalls, sit and have a coffee or pint outside Dunphys.

1 sheep2

Thanks, everyone. Something fanciful about the idea of demolishing it for a park, especially as at least one of the lots was sold in 2017, as Yakov P. Golyadkin says. But the cinema and shopping centre would be delighted, I'm sure, to have the space there opened up.

patrickbrophy18

Repurposing the 3rd floor of Dun Laoghaire Shopping for a primary care facility is certainly a way of injecting (pun very much intended ) new business into the place. Since they merged the bulk of the retail units on that floor some 3 or 4 years back, it is clear that no anchor tenant wants to take up residence in any of it.

Plus, I recall talking to a shop owner at the height of the recession and being told that they payed extortionate rents each year making any investment high risk.

I'm surprised that Dun Laoghaire Shopping Center has managed to last as long.

1 sheep2

That's basically them giving up, isn't it? Once they've committed to it, I don't see them reverting to retail down the line. If there's no 'anchor tenant' forthcoming, maybe it's a blessing that they can now concentrate on filling empty units and improving the quality, particularly on the lower floor. And anything that increases footfall is to be welcomed. My sense is that a shopping centre containing a spectrum of amenities - shops, restaurants, cinema, doctor, etc - is common in certain countries, so maybe a health level isn't as ridiculous as it might seem. The worry, of course, is that it could become associated with a rougher element.

I did some of my Xmas shopping there and was surprised to see that there's a pretty good selection of shops - Art & Hobby, Dubray books, Flying Tiger, Golden Discs, New Look, Lifestyle, Trespass, an electronics shop...and, of course, Supervalu. It lacks a TK Max(!) but it seems to me that if that selection doesn't attract shoppers, the explanation for its demise is more than just the absence of an anchor tenant.

Sad to see. Was an important part of my childhood. I don't ever remember seeing a place die like that.

Larbre34

I couldn't tell you how many redevelopment proposals I worked on in the UK in my youth for post-war shopping precincts that died after new mega malls or retail parks opened in their catchment area.

Plenty of examples in Dublin also; Ballymun, Crumlin, Ballyfermot, Donaghmede, Northside, Nutgrove, Rathfarnham at Butterfield. All have struggled in the wake of bigger developments in their vicinity. Which doesn't make it right by the way.

My preferred solution for DLSC would be a comprehensive rather than a piecemeal redevelopment, with a high quality traditional street frontage restored on both elevations, and then mixed residential and commercial in behind, rising up to the established height of the adjoining Hotel with carparking and plant buried in multiple basement levels, which was very underexploited when the Centre was built in the 70s.

1 sheep2

Larbre34 wrote: »

...high quality traditional street frontage restored on both elevations, and then mixed residential and commercial in behind, rising up to the established height of the adjoining Hotel with carparking and plant buried in multiple basement levels...

What exactly have you in mind for street frontage? For me the biggest problem is the side that faces the crossroads, which looms larger as you walk down Marine Road, and I don't really see what can be done to improve that.

By in behind, do you mean where the car park is? And what does plant mean?

Larbre34

1 sheep2 wrote: »

What exactly have you in mind for street frontage? For me the biggest problem is the side that faces the crossroads, which looms larger as you walk down Marine Road, and I don't really see what can be done to improve that.

By in behind, do you mean where the car park is? And what does plant mean?

To be clear, I would raze the whole thing to the ground.

I would bury 2 or 3 levels of basement car parking underneath the new structure, with an access off the avenue into the Royal Marine. This basement would also contain the plant, i.e. all the machinery to run the building systems. Then from the existing Royal Marine outer iron gate i would specify a 3 storey high quality brick or stone frontage, echoing but not necessarily copying the victorian facades of Lower Georges Street, up to the junction and right along to the AIB. This would contain street level shops, restaurants, salons etc.

Behind that I would place higher rise elements in a subtle style, gradually stepping up to meet the height of the Hotel. These would contain a mix of residential and commercial modular, so, for example, they could have a primary care centre in part of it they wanted, or a college or Tesco HQ or whatever.

If you think about it, the core of that site is just underutilised car parking at the moment and the brutalist building was never comfortable in its setting. It should start again from scratch.

1 sheep2

Thanks for your thoughts. Ah, okay! The start-from-scratch approach. That would be ideal, of course, but I wonder if it's realistic. It would be a huge, drawn-out project and I doubt the owners are in a position to pursue it. Would it be more likely if they hadn't spent money a few years back renovating it?

I don't know exactly what I'd do, but the thought of replacing it with merely a line of shops along Marine Road doesn't fill me with excitement.

Phat Cat

Stephen15 wrote: »

The Beer Keeper is the new name of Gilbert and Wright's

The Beer Keeper is now called Buck Mulligan's and The Bar on York Road has a "To Let" sign on it.

Blut2

Anyone know which of the pubs in Dun Laoghaire are doing takeaway pints?

I'd heard Hartleys was but apparently its not any more.

MonkstownHoop

Blut2 wrote: »

Anyone know which of the pubs in Dun Laoghaire are doing takeaway pints?

I'd heard Hartleys was but apparently its not any more.

Lighthouse & Buck Mullligans

Edit, also The Eagle House

fixXxer

Saw this pop on RTE News a few days ago.

25 years on from the first attempt to modernise the Baths, the Rainbow Rapids. Some childhood memories there, getting dimmer as time goes on. 100,000 bolts!!

ted1

fixXxer wrote: »

Saw this pop on RTE News a few days ago.

25 years on from the first attempt to modernise the Baths, the Rainbow Rapids. Some childhood memories there, getting dimmer as time goes on. 100,000 bolts!!

35

fixXxer

ted1 wrote: »

35

That's me not wanting to admit how old i am

Signore Fancy Pants

Was just down in DL and it was carnage at the junction of Marine Road, Crofton Road and Queens Road.

The new 2 way cycleway has made a bollox of the traffic.

Forcing vehicles up Marine Road cloggs it pretty quickly, the junction was in a heap and cars and a bus were beeping like fcuk :pac:

All the parking on Queens Road is gone, about 10 spots outside the Boylan centre are gone too (not related).

Absolute shambles!

Is this a permanent thing or some sort of trial? If its permanent, jaysis if DL ever gets busy again it will just put people off.

ted1

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Was just down in DL and it was carnage at the junction of Marine Road, Crofton Road and Queens Road.

The new 2 way cycleway has made a bollox of the traffic.

Forcing vehicles up Marine Road cloggs it pretty quickly, the junction was in a heap and cars and a bus were beeping like fcuk :pac:

All the parking on Queens Road is gone, about 10 spots outside the Boylan centre are gone too (not related).

Absolute shambles!

Is this a permanent thing or some sort of trial? If its permanent, jaysis if DL ever gets busy again it will just put people off.

Just back , found it to be great. It’s a really positive thing. Of course there will be natural teething issues. People’s need to learn new habits.

It’s far from a shambles. In fact everyone I saw seemed to be coping fine.


It’s still a work in progress. Lots of parking bays on the queens road between the lexicon and baths. Exact same amount. It’s just being moved out

This will bring lots of people to DL. And many will leave the car at home.

Signore Fancy Pants

ted1 wrote: »

It’s far from a shambles. In fact everyone I saw seemed to be coping fine..

We just had opposite experiences today so. My experience showed serious congestion at the time, Im sure it will be repeated with one route out of DL taken away. Highly doubtful as a once off. This will be a clusterfcuk for a good while.

ted1 wrote: »

It’s still a work in progress. Lots of parking bays on the queens road between the lexicon and baths. Exact same amount. It’s just being moved out.

Ah, they are moving them out from the kerb is it? Interesting design.

ted1 wrote: »

This will bring lots of people to DL. And many will leave the car at home.

Yeah maybe it will encourage more people in for coffe, lunch or a wander.

Personally, it will dissuage me from going as frequent as I did at peak periods or indeed Christmas. I certaintly wont be using a bus if I do go, fcuk that.

For me, its a negative. Hopefully its a positive for many many people though.

Tabnabs

This new layout is causing some concern in the emergency services based at the lifeboat station near the East Pier and their CG colleagues. They feel it will have a negative impact on response time. Only time will tell.

Traffic is indeed much heavier on Georges St Upper, not unusual to see cars do a u turn instead of waiting it out. Always bad until the traffic can disperse up to Glenageary Road Lwr.

josip

Tabnabs wrote: »

This new layout is causing some concern in the emergency services based at the lifeboat station near the East Pier and their CG colleagues. They feel it will have a negative impact on response time. Only time will tell.

Traffic is indeed much heavier on Georges St Upper, not unusual to see cars do a u turn instead of waiting it out. Always bad until the traffic can disperse up to Glenageary Road Lwr.

Which is having a knock effect on Tivoli Road which is now backed up to Crostwaithe much more frequently during the day than previously.

Signore Fancy Pants

Yep.

Total clusterfcuk.

MonkstownHoop

Its fantastic for runners and cyclists, also a new report about micro plastics from cars polluting the seas it wont be long before the whole seafront is fully car free!

Larbre34

MonkstownHoop wrote: »

Its fantastic for runners and cyclists, also a new report about micro plastics from cars polluting the seas it wont be long before the whole seafront is fully car free!

Rubbish. If, and I mean if, the schools return as normal this September, the consequent traffic disaster will have those measures removed.

A lot of the County Councillors are close with the business Community and the Chamber won't be quiet either about businesses that are already under pressure being further hit by delays to deliveries, staff being late etc.

I've heard that there are more than a few senior Council engineers in DLR that are so zealous about this stuff that would make Owen Keegan look like one of the Dukes of Hazzard. There'll be heads butting.

AndrewJRenko

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Yep.

Total clusterfcuk.

Depends on your definition of clusterfcuk I guess;

https://twitter.com/JTUrbanDesign/status/1282401727329775618?s=20

Larbre34

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Depends on your definition of clusterfcuk I guess;

Ummm, he actually wrote the design manual for urban street layouts, that the Department of Transport adopted 5 or 6 years ago, and so he has major skin in the game. In fact, his professional reputation relies on this stuff going well.

I've known him a long time, bit of a fox in the henhouse of urban planning. Too much stick and not enough carrot in my view.

strandroad

Larbre34 wrote: »

Rubbish. If, and I mean if, the schools return as normal this September, the consequent traffic disaster will have those measures removed.

Parents don't need to drive there anymore if kids can now cycle safely on segregated paths though. Perhaps parents don't need to drive anymore at all, I wouln't be able to cycle to work before, now I (almost) could. Extending this into town would be a commute game changer.

Larbre34

strandroad wrote: »

Parents don't need to drive there anymore if kids can now cycle safely on segregated paths though. Perhaps parents don't need to drive anymore at all, I wouln't be able to cycle to work before, now I (almost) could. Extending this into town would be a commute game changer.

That entire post is naive.

strandroad

Larbre34 wrote: »

That entire post is naive.

We will now have a segregated cycling route halfway into town, built within a couple of weeks. That's a fact.

Signore Fancy Pants

strandroad wrote: »

We will now have a segregated cycling route halfway into town, built within a couple of weeks. That's a fact.

Lets hope DLRCC (or whoever) are as proactive with upgrading the cycle infrastructure on the N11 and the Rock Rd.

Its not all about weekend leisure cyclists. They should have prioritised the main commuter routes instead of their vanity project.

While the vanity project is a nice idea, it may prove to worsen traffic in other DL areas which may discourage some people to go if it is a traffic headache.

Mav11

MonkstownHoop wrote: »

Its fantastic for runners and cyclists, also a new report about micro plastics from cars polluting the seas it wont be long before the whole seafront is fully car free!

I have to agree. I don't often applaud DLRCC decisions but this is one of the better ones. Leads to a much improved environment and experience.

HopsAndJumps

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Depends on your definition of clusterfcuk I guess;

https://twitter.com/JTUrbanDesign/status/1282401727329775618?s=20

I live 20 seconds from where that photo was taken. The lanes are barely used though you can see in the photo that cars are backed up.

The traffic is a nightmare there now, I can't imagine when the schools are back.