Dun Laoghaire Traffic & Commuting Chat

strandroad

odyssey06 wrote: »

And stay at homes wives or servants with the time to traipse to multiple different stores daily.

Not really if you work locally (work from home is very compatible too), it's something you do on your way back, walking or cycling instead of doing a long commute in the car. Like what Paris is currently trying to reintroduce with the "15 minute city", where you have everything you need within a small enough radius.

None of this is new, it's common in Europe and in fact it's what DL used to be like; it's just that since the 1960s we've become so americanised we now see it as a threat to that.

odyssey06

strandroad wrote: »

Not really if you work locally (work from home is very compatible too), it's something you do on your way back, walking or cycling instead of doing a long commute in the car. Like what Paris is currently trying to reintroduce with the "15 minute city", where you have everything you need within a small enough radius.

None of this is new, it's common in Europe and in fact it's what DL used to be like; it's just that since the 1960s we've become so americanised we now see it as a threat to that.

Fantasy stuff. If it was so wonderful why did it die out.
Nothing to do with americanization. People preferred the convenience.

strandroad

odyssey06 wrote: »

Fantasy stuff. If it was so wonderful why did it die out.
Nothing to do with americanization. People preferred the convenience.

Suburbs with no amenities, supermarkets, cars and big fridges for everyone is not americanisation? Genuinely, where do you think it came from first? I concur that Chorleywood bread is British in origin.
Of course it's convenient, and it's meant to be; if you have a long commute and no amenities around you're going to prefer the door to door driving, the big weekly or fortnightly shop and the supermarket food that is a result of that. Anything that saves your effort is good, you're just going to pay with a more sedentary lifestyle and a more processed diet. That's for your family to decide on obviously. The problem is when everyone else is supposed to pay for it by giving up shared spaces for car use.
I do drive BTW, just not everywhere and not all the time...

odyssey06

strandroad wrote: »

Suburbs with no amenities, supermarkets, cars and big fridges for everyone is not americanisation? Genuinely, where do you think it came from first? I concur that Chorleywood bread is British in origin.

I would see it different here in that I think here we switched from the daily shop and having baker butcher greengrocer and grocer to the supermarket.
In the states was there a choice or things were just laid out that way.
Was it americanization or modernization.

If we repeat the experiment I amnt sure why the outcome would differ this time around?

But I was the one calling for validated parking... which I saw in the USA so perhaps an american solution to an american ie modern problem is needed.

strandroad

odyssey06 wrote: »

I would see it different here in that I think here we switched from the daily shop and having baker butcher greengrocer and grocer to the supermarket.
In the states was there a choice or things were just laid out that way.
Was it americanization or modernization.

That's a good question is you ask it this way. There was a choice initially for sure but over time things have evolved to the point where many residents no longer have any independent shops within walking distance with how the driving took over and estates are built to facilitate that. Cycling helps but then we need proper infrastructure so good to see progress on that.

odyssey06 wrote: »

If we repeat the experiment I amnt sure why the outcome would differ this time around?

I don't know either but perhaps in the lockdown people realised that when you live in an urban area it's illogical to accept long commutes and have to drive for absolutely everything or in turn put up with car dominated spaces? If you wanted that you could live down the country with all the benefits it brings to balance it out.

TheW1zard

Dulldrabwetanddreary
Thatsthewayyouspelldunlaoghaire

odyssey06

strandroad wrote: »

I don't know either but perhaps in the lockdown people realised that when you live in an urban area it's illogical to accept long commutes and have to drive for absolutely everything or in turn put up with car dominated spaces? If you wanted that you could live down the country with all the benefits it brings to balance it out.

I amnt sure myself. My hunch is that it comes down to demographics. If you have a lot of DINKYs ie double income no kids and active retired then a suburban village works as they can trade off time v convenience. And are less bothered about paying a premium over supermaket prices.

Regardless I think we are crying out for validated parking in DL and similar sites such as Howth, Malahide and Clontarf.

starbaby2003

https://www.dlrcoco.ie/en/news/general-news/installation-protected-cycle-lane-newtownpark-avenue More changes to allow children to safely cycle to school. Great to see.

starbaby2003

https://www.dlrcoco.ie/en/news/general-news/installation-protected-cycle-lane-newtownpark-avenue More changes to allow children to safely cycle to school. Great to see.

AndrewJRenko

odyssey06 wrote: »

But I was the one calling for validated parking... which I saw in the USA so perhaps an american solution to an american ie modern problem is needed.

Very much an American solution - do we really want to subsidise private car ownership? Should we also 'validate' Leap cards so that public transport users are incentivised to come to DL?

odyssey06

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Very much an American solution - do we really want to subsidise private car ownership? Should we also 'validate' Leap cards so that public transport users are incentivised to come to DL?

If people in vehicles are coming in and spending more money in DL shops, and that money pays for the commercial rates of those shops, then I don't see why there's a need to charge them twice by the council.
Limiting the validated parking to 1 hour for shops, 2 hours for dining establishments would mean that the limited resource of parking isn't abused.

The alternative which seems to be happening is that people drive further to places where they don't have to pay for parking.

I think we should ask the local businesses what they think, they would have a better understanding than anyone here.

AndrewJRenko

odyssey06 wrote: »

If people in vehicles are coming in and spending more money in DL shops, and that money pays for the commercial rates of those shops, then I don't see why there's a need to charge them twice by the council.
Limiting the validated parking to 1 hour for shops, 2 hours for dining establishments would mean that the limited resource of parking isn't abused.

The alternative which seems to be happening is that people drive further to places where they don't have to pay for parking.

I think we should ask the local businesses what they think, they would have a better understanding than anyone here.

Do you think that people in buses and DARTs don't spend money?

odyssey06

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Do you think that people in buses and DARTs don't spend money?

Their carrying capacity is limited compared to those with vehicles.
Which is why I said, if they are spending more money...
Plus people in buses and DARTs aren't paying the council money for their time in DL.

dubrov

odyssey06 wrote: »

Their carrying capacity is limited compared to those with vehicles.
Which is why I said, if they are spending more money...
Plus people in buses and DARTs aren't paying the council money for their time in DL.

I don't know anyone that goes into DL now to buy a big load of shopping.

odyssey06

dubrov wrote: »

I don't know anyone that goes into DL now to buy a big load of shopping.

Is that because of other changes though or cos of the parking situation?
I just floated the idea because it seems to come up in articles about DL and businesses.
If the businesses themselves don't consider it an issue then my points are moot.

dubrov

It's because people don't go to Dun Laoghaire for bulk shopping.
People are attracted by the sea/pier/park/cafes etc. Not a big supermarket.

Business will always resist change as it is a risk for them.
It isn't clear cut if they would benefit or not.

markpb

odyssey06 wrote: »

Plus people in buses and DARTs aren't paying the council money for their time in DL.

That's a slightly left of field remark. Parking charges aren't some bizarre price of admission - you're paying for somewhere to park your car, nothing more. If you buy something in a shop, cafe, restaurant or available of any commercial service, you're contributing to the rates that are paid to DLR. I'd hazard a guess that Irish Rail pay rates for the DART stations in DL so public transport users are contributing there too.

odyssey06 wrote: »

Their carrying capacity is limited compared to those with vehicles. Which is why I said, if they are spending more money...

In the last few years, I've bought a TV, two sofas, a cot, a bunk bed, a dishwasher and more recently an office desk. With one exception (the desk which I needed the same day because of bloody Coronavirus), I didn't take any of them away in my car. In fact, when I was buying my last car, I didn't even arrive in a car, I took public transport to get there.

There's no positive link between the size of your vehicle and how much money you spend in town centres.

AndrewJRenko

odyssey06 wrote: »

Their carrying capacity is limited compared to those with vehicles.
Which is why I said, if they are spending more money...
Plus people in buses and DARTs aren't paying the council money for their time in DL.

Public transport users don't take up a large chunk of public space to store their private property either.

A lot of the spending is going to be on stuff you don't carry home, such as food and drink to eat in. I wouldn't make any assumptions about linking mode of transport to spending.

But a threshold of spending would be reasonable, for both validating parking or covering public transport costs or bike locking costs (Cyc lok or similar). We really shouldn't be incentivising private car usage over other modes.

odyssey06

In other DL news...
Teddy’s ice cream were issued with a closure order for the food and packaging storage unit at the side of the premises located on the East Pier Battery, Dun Laoghaire Harbour on 14 July. The food safety inspection report documents that “rodent droppings were noted in the storage area”.
https://www.thejournal.ie/teddys-ice-crean-stand-5172043-Aug2020/

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Public transport users don't take up a large chunk of public space to store their private property either.

Public space they pay hundreds of euro per year to use.

.anon.

Aegir wrote: »

Public space they pay hundreds of euro per year to use.

The days of selling such indulgences are over. Thankfully.

AndrewJRenko

Aegir wrote: »

Public space they pay hundreds of euro per year to use.

What payment are you referring to? If you're thinking about motor tax, that's a payment for the toxic emissions coming out of the motor, nothing to do with road space.

Whatever it is, it's not half enough. Look at all that free public space in the suburbs that we give over to storage of private property?

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

What payment are you referring to? If you're thinking about motor tax, that's a payment for the toxic emissions coming out of the motor, nothing to do with road space.

Whatever it is, it's not half enough. Look at all that free public space in the suburbs that we give over to storage of private property?

Isn’t the duty on fuel the payment for toxic emissions? Or is it the registration tax?

It may be private property, but it’s private property that is taxes to the hilt.

Mav11

Aegir wrote: »

Isn’t the duty on fuel the payment for toxic emissions? Or is it the registration tax?

It may be private property, but it’s private property that is taxes to the hilt.

The duty on fuel is merely a tax raising measure! Goes into the general exchequer pot.

Ush1

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

What payment are you referring to? If you're thinking about motor tax, that's a payment for the toxic emissions coming out of the motor, nothing to do with road space.

Whatever it is, it's not half enough. Look at all that free public space in the suburbs that we give over to storage of private property?

My electric car has zero emissions yet I have to pay 120 euro motor tax.

ted1

Ush1 wrote: »

My electric car has zero emissions yet I have to pay 120 euro motor tax.

It’s “Motor” tax, fossil fuels are still used to generate electricity.

Cyrus

ted1 wrote: »

It’s “Motor” tax, fossil fuels are still used to generate electricity.

not all electricity in fact dont some of the energy providers state that their energy is all renewables? or maybe he has solar panels at home and uses them to charge his car

Mav11

Ush1 wrote: »

My electric car has zero emissions yet I have to pay 120 euro motor tax.

Roads have to be maintained.

JayRoc

Mav11 wrote: »

Roads have to be maintained.

Does Motor Tax have anything to do with road maintenance?

Mav11

JayRoc wrote: »

Does Motor Tax have anything to do with road maintenance?

Contributes to the provision and maintenance of road infrastructure. That's the theory!