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Govt to replace Direct Provision with protection system

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  • Options
    #122
    Tork
    Registered Users Posts: 3,261 ✭✭✭Tork


    Geuze wrote: »
    Here's an idea: don't let illegal immigrants past the port / airport.

    Process their claims in 24 hours max.

    I agree re. any new applicants. Anyone who "loses" their paperwork on the plane or ferry should be automatically deported. The horse has bolted when it comes to the long term existing asylum seekers though. What are we going to do with them?


  • Options
    #123
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RandRuns wrote: »
    You seem to be mixed up there.

    People in social housing aren't buying their houses, they are being provided them under a social housing scheme.

    I won't even get into the "why can't everyone's daddy send them to college to be a pharmacist" bit.
    I paid my own way through pharmacy so I have no idea what you mean regarding this.

    I worked my arse off to get where I am today and yeah I earn a decent wage today but there was lean days during college where I wouldn't have any money to buy food whilst waiting for the pay from my part time work to come in.


  • Options
    #124
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »
    Yes.


    which is something that is also a part of this new system, my thoughts roughly align with this statement from the office of UNHCR Ireland

    I've read some of the white paper, admittedly not all yet. I welcome his comments about what needs to happen to failed asylum seekers but I'm not sure if it is part of the new system like you say? Are these not just his personal thoughts?

    Now, I'm reading in the media that the Greens want to issue a state apology to all asylum seekers, jesus wept, how do these people function in real life


  • Options
    #125
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,367 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »
    Never is though, right? :pac:
    When you're not actually racist, no it isnt.
    The only time race is an issue is when the superwoke get involved. White knights and SJWs unite.


  • Options
    #126
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,367 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I paid my own way through pharmacy so I have no idea what you mean regarding this.
    It's almost as if some people don't understand this concept.
    I invested in my own career too. Not everyone has, or has access to, daddy's money.


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    #127
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Maybe if people didn't want to get beaten to social housing by asylum seekers, they could get a..... job.:confused::confused::confused:

    Poor paying jobs, huge rents, so can't save etc etc....


  • Options
    #128
    Tacitus Kilgore
    Registered Users Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Tacitus Kilgore


    ELM327 wrote: »
    When you're not actually racist, no it isnt.
    The only time race is an issue is when the superwoke get involved. White knights and SJWs unite.


    I guess someone has to come swooping in when the neckbeards & incels unite.


  • Options
    #129
    titan18
    Registered Users Posts: 11,932 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »
    Never is though, right? :pac:

    Anyone with a functioning brain would see it isn't.

    We've a shortage of houses and loads of people who want them.

    We can't build enough atm to satisfy the existing demand that is there.

    Instead of the government doing something to help that, nah, it's lets create more demand.

    If we have a wonderful amount of free resources, sure, bring people in, but we don't and as it is we're going more and more into debt each day.


  • Options
    #130
    chops018
    Registered Users Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭chops018


    I don't usually comment on these things but I am so disillusioned with the Government.

    I was a regular FF voter.

    Well, safe to say after the last 12 months it won't be voting for them or FG again.

    I am a qualified Solicitor. Well educated. Good job. I am 32 years old. Have a daughter. I live in my mothers house. Well between my mother's house and my partners house where my child lives.

    I am saving and I am nearly ready to be able to buy a home (not Dublin by the way), but it is an absolute joke that I have worked so hard just to get to where I am now but the taxes I pay don't seem to give me any return in day to day society and services for the working folk. I am completely priced out of the €250-300k market. I am bidding on houses €200-250k but I have been out bid on several houses in my area and that price range. These are just normal 3 beds within 10 miles of my hometown.

    I am all for taxes going towards a safety net for people - we need to house people, there has to be social welfare, we cannot let these people starve. But there just seems to be no concrete plan or screening for this social protection net - for both our own and immigrants/asylum seekers.

    Look, I know in ways I am lucky, and I hope I don't ever have to be in a situation of a homeless Irish person or family or even an immigrant family. But I am just asking for proper screening and investigation and a proper plan, rather than just house our own on the social welfare for years and years without any contribution from them, or house and fund immigrants/asylum seekers for years without them added to society.

    Personally, I have become a much more right wing thinking person after the last year two and prefer we look after our own citizens and domestic issues first. I would rather see "Jacinta" and her kids get housed over Asylum Seekers/Immigrants first. We should sort out our own domestic homeless situation and housing crisis first and try to overcome that substantially before wholly accepting Immigrants/Asylum seekers on mass. I know we cannot just refuse to accept them point blank but a rigorous screening process and plan in place for selection or else back you go. Then quarterly reviews of their situation and if they are unable to integrate and contribute to society within 12 to 18 months then sorry off you go.


  • Options
    #131
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,367 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »
    I guess someone has to come swooping in when the neckbeards & incels unite.


    If that's what you have to label those who have the logical coherence to see the fallacy behind this then so be it. I'd take your namecalling happily if it meant my taxes were not being wasted on this nonsense.


    titan18 wrote: »
    Anyone with a functioning brain would see it isn't.

    We've a shortage of houses and loads of people who want them.

    We can't build enough atm to satisfy the existing demand that is there.

    Instead of the government doing something to help that, nah, it's lets create more demand.

    If we have a wonderful amount of free resources, sure, bring people in, but we don't and as it is we're going more and more into debt each day.
    +1


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    #132
    RandRuns
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    chops018 wrote: »
    I don't usually comment on these things but I am so disillusioned with the Government.

    I was a regular FF voter.

    Well, safe to say after the last 12 months it won't be voting for them or FG again.

    I am a qualified Solicitor. Well educated. Good job. I am 32 years old. Have a daughter. I live in my mothers house. Well between my mother's house and my partners house where my child lives.

    I am saving and I am nearly ready to be able to buy a home (not Dublin by the way), but it is an absolute joke that I have worked so hard just to get to where I am now but the taxes I pay don't seem to give me any return in day to day society and services for the working folk. I am completely priced out of the €200-250k market. I have been out bid on several houses in my area. These are just normal 3 beds within 20 miles of my hometown.

    I am all for taxes going towards a safety net for people - we need to house people, there has to be social welfare, we cannot let these people starve. But there just seems to be no concrete plan or screening for this social protection net - for both our own and immigrants/asylum seekers.

    Look, I know in ways I am lucky, and I hope I don't ever have to be in a situation of a homeless Irish person or family or even an immigrant family. But I am just asking for proper screening and investigation and a proper plan rather than house our own on the social welfare for years and years without any contribution from them, or house and fund immigrants/asylum seekers for years without them added to society.

    Personally, I have become a much more right wing thinking person after the last year two and prefer we look after our own citizens and domestic issues first. I would rather see "Jacinta" and her kids get housed over Asylum Seekers/Immigrants first. We should sort out our own domestic homeless situation and housing crisis first and try to overcome that substantially before wholly accepting Immigrants/Asylum seekers on mass. I know we cannot just refuse to accept them point blank but a rigorous screening process and plan in place for selection or else back you go. Then quarterly reviews of their situation and if they are unable to integrate and contribute to society within 12 to 18 months then sorry off you go.

    According to the hard-working pharmacist above, you must just be lazy.


  • Options
    #133
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,270 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    I'd love to know the percentage of the country that agree's with any of this at all.

    Is it not the case that as being members of the EU we are bound to take a quota of asylum seekers and have no choice in the matter? So it would never be an election issue unless one was arguing for irexit.

    And what is the EU agreement if circumstance changed. What would happen in the amount of asylum seekers doubled? What then? What's the plan is such a case?

    And what about for how long even if the numbers don't change? Is it 3,000 per year we're expected to take? For how many years is this going to go on?

    Also is there not any kind of a preferential system, for example, take the women and children over the men, men who could very well be involved in conflict and only flee because they are loosing.

    But on the proposals won't this make fleeing to Ireland look more attractive so will we get more asylum seekers as a result? Or is their a cap on how many we will take?


  • Options
    #134
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,192 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    titan18 wrote: »
    At current house prices, you need a combined income of about 80k a year to afford even a house with the 3.5 times limit, and that combined income needed is higher if you want to live in Dublin.

    If you're a single buyer, do you know any job paying that much? Never mind the people renting who can't save cos of the rent costs.

    I earn about 45k a year and I can't buy a house anywhere in effect.

    https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/apt-20-block-b-allendale-court-clonsilla-dublin-15/4463444

    Good location, €175k.

    Income of 45k, net monthly income of €2,800, deposit of €20k, mortgage of €157,700, repayments of between €633 and €786.

    Perfectly achievable.


  • Options
    #135
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    chops018 wrote: »
    I don't usually comment on these things but I am so disillusioned with the Government.

    I was a regular FF voter.

    Well, safe to say after the last 12 months it won't be voting for them or FG again.

    I am a qualified Solicitor. Well educated. Good job. I am 32 years old. Have a daughter. I live in my mothers house. Well between my mother's house and my partners house where my child lives.

    I am saving and I am nearly ready to be able to buy a home (not Dublin by the way), but it is an absolute joke that I have worked so hard just to get to where I am now but the taxes I pay don't seem to give me any return in day to day society and services for the working folk. I am completely priced out of the €200-250k market. I have been out bid on several houses in my area. These are just normal 3 beds within 20 miles of my hometown.

    I am all for taxes going towards a safety net for people - we need to house people, there has to be social welfare, we cannot let these people starve. But there just seems to be no concrete plan or screening for this social protection net - for both our own and immigrants/asylum seekers.

    Look, I know in ways I am lucky, and I hope I don't ever have to be in a situation of a homeless Irish person or family or even an immigrant family. But I am just asking for proper screening and investigation and a proper plan rather than house our own on the social welfare for years and years without any contribution from them, or house and fund immigrants/asylum seekers for years without them added to society.

    Personally, I have become a much more right wing thinking person after the last year two and prefer we look after our own citizens and domestic issues first. I would rather see "Jacinta" and her kids get housed over Asylum Seekers/Immigrants first. We should sort out our own domestic homeless situation and housing crisis first and try to overcome that substantially before wholly accepting Immigrants/Asylum seekers on mass. I know we cannot just refuse to accept them point blank but a rigorous screening process and plan in place for selection or else back you go. Then quarterly reviews of their situation and if they are unable to integrate and contribute to society within 12 to 18 months then sorry off you go.

    I hear you, great post. Thanks


  • Options
    #136
    Doctor Roast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Doctor Roast


    Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »
    I guess someone has to come swooping in when the neckbeards & incels unite.

    And there it is... We have our first sighting


  • Options
    #137
    Tacitus Kilgore
    Registered Users Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Tacitus Kilgore


    chops018 wrote: »
    I don't usually comment on these things but I am so disillusioned with the Government.

    I was a regular FF voter.

    Well, safe to say after the last 12 months it won't be voting for them or FG again.

    I am a qualified Solicitor. Well educated. Good job. I am 32 years old. Have a daughter. I live in my mothers house. Well between my mother's house and my partners house where my child lives.

    I am saving and I am nearly ready to be able to buy a home (not Dublin by the way), but it is an absolute joke that I have worked so hard just to get to where I am now but the taxes I pay don't seem to give me any return in day to day society and services for the working folk. I am completely priced out of the €200-250k market. I have been out bid on several houses in my area. These are just normal 3 beds within 20 miles of my hometown.

    I am all for taxes going towards a safety net for people - we need to house people, there has to be social welfare, we cannot let these people starve. But there just seems to be no concrete plan or screening for this social protection net - for both our own and immigrants/asylum seekers.

    Look, I know in ways I am lucky, and I hope I don't ever have to be in a situation of a homeless Irish person or family or even an immigrant family. But I am just asking for proper screening and investigation and a proper plan rather than house our own on the social welfare for years and years without any contribution from them, or house and fund immigrants/asylum seekers for years without them added to society.

    Personally, I have become a much more right wing thinking person after the last year two and prefer we look after our own citizens and domestic issues first. I would rather see "Jacinta" and her kids get housed over Asylum Seekers/Immigrants first. We should sort out our own domestic homeless situation and housing crisis first and try to overcome that substantially before wholly accepting Immigrants/Asylum seekers on mass. I know we cannot just refuse to accept them point blank but a rigorous screening process and plan in place for selection or else back you go. Then quarterly reviews of their situation and if they are unable to integrate and contribute to society within 12 to 18 months then sorry off you go.


    How is this relevant to the discussion? House prices aren't high now because of a future system - your problem isn't with the asylum seekers. its with decades of government mismanagement of the country and an enormous (purposeful) lack of supply created by land hoarders and property developers & stupid government policies around house building & provision of social and affordable housing.


  • Options
    #138
    Tacitus Kilgore
    Registered Users Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Tacitus Kilgore


    ELM327 wrote: »
    When you're not actually racist, no it isnt.
    The only time race is an issue is when the superwoke get involved. White knights and SJWs unite.
    Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »
    I guess someone has to come swooping in when the neckbeards & incels unite.
    ELM327 wrote: »
    If that's what you have to label those who have the logical coherence to see the fallacy behind this then so be it. I'd take your namecalling happily if it meant my taxes were not being wasted on this nonsense.

    Just replying to you in your own style tbh..
    Doctor Roast wrote: »
    And there it is... We have our first sighting

    As above..


  • Options
    #139
    RandRuns
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »
    How is this relevant to the discussion? House prices aren't high now because of a future system - your problem isn't with the asylum seekers. its with decades of government mismanagement of the country and an enormous (purposeful) lack of supply created by land hoarders and property developers & stupid government policies around house building & provision of social and affordable housing.

    I thought you said it was all fine, that the money spent on DP would pay for these new houses?


  • Options
    #140
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RandRuns wrote: »
    According to the hard-working pharmacist above, you must just be lazy.

    Deliberately misconstruing what I am saying. Why do you have such a bee in a bonnet? Why are you obsessed about my job as a pharmacist? Bit disturbing, really.


  • Options
    #141
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users Posts: 43,024 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    In what world would you apologise for taking a stranger into your home giving them shelter,feeding them etc?

    You won't be apologising on my behalf "Roderic"


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    #142
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,367 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »
    Just replying to you in your own style tbh..



    As above..
    If you're going to falsely call racism then I'm of course going to respond as such. What do you expect?:rolleyes:


  • Options
    #143
    titan18
    Registered Users Posts: 11,932 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    blanch152 wrote: »
    https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/apt-20-block-b-allendale-court-clonsilla-dublin-15/4463444

    Good location, €175k.

    Income of 45k, net monthly income of €2,800, deposit of €20k, mortgage of €157,700, repayments of between €633 and €786.

    Perfectly achievable.

    I don't live in Dublin. With my savings, I could afford about up to 230k i'd say atm. House wise, there's not a giant amount under that in Cork City (on daft anyway) unless you want to live in a sh1t area, so you're mainly looking at apartments and there's a fair lack of suitable ones in Cork City.

    When i know of people on the housing list getting houses in new estates worth over 300k (and likely will be the same with this DP plan) it's a bit sh1t that someone working and who's taxes are paying for those gets a worse house or an apartment in a worse area.


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    #144
    chops018
    Registered Users Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭chops018


    Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »
    How is this relevant to the discussion? House prices aren't high now because of a future system - your problem isn't with the asylum seekers. its with decades of government mismanagement of the country and an enormous (purposeful) lack of supply created by land hoarders and property developers & stupid government policies around house building & provision of social and affordable housing.

    Fair enough, my post was a bit wider than the immediate thread topic/discussion. But my point was these type of plans from the government cost money, tax payers money, and something like this most likely will not be run properly and will just lead to issues for the citizens and as has been mentioned might have an affect on property. Of course it might be run brilliantly and the Government might sort out the housing crisis in tandem with it and that would be great. However, I doubt that. As I said I am very lucky in many ways. Just frustrated that it is hard to get a house for my family when I did what we were told - get educated, go to college, get a job, save, house etc. To add to that the services we get in this country for the tax we pay is not great - even simple things like train services etc.

    But I do agree. It is not the immigrants/asylum seekers themselves personally I have an issue with. It is not their fault.


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    #145
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Is own door accom for asylum seekers an international norm?


  • Options
    #146
    RandRuns
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Deliberately misconstruing what I am saying. Why do you have such a bee in a bonnet? Why are you obsessed about my job as a pharmacist? Bit disturbing, really.

    I didn't misconstrue what you said, you said:
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Maybe if people didn't want to get beaten to social housing by asylum seekers, they could get a..... job.:confused::confused::confused:

    Therefore anyone who can't afford a house must be too lazy to get a job, right?

    I couldn't care less about your job, you brought it up for reasons best known to yourself.


  • Options
    #147
    Esho
    Registered Users Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Esho


    blanch152 wrote: »
    There is no problem with what is proposed, so long as it goes only to genuine refugees.

    The problem isn't what is proposed for asylum seekers, it is with the system that takes so long to process them and rejects so few. A fast-track system with a dedicated court for appeals is what is needed alongside this proposal.

    I'm happy Direct Provision is over - it is not right for anyone to live in such crap conditions.

    But for this to work, a few things have to happen

    (i) more houses to be built - look at the success rate so far

    (ii) legal overhaul of the asylum process so that cases are resolved quickly - too lucrative currently for anyone to dare changing this (look what happend to Alan Shatter)

    (iii) means to remove unsuccessful applicants from the state - almost no guards will volunteer for this work currently, this step of the system does not work, its "no, you cant stay here - now leave the court room and that's that"

    Well done for ending Direct Provision, but I dont see a solution here.
    Asylum seekers will end up either being illegal or homeless.


  • Options
    #148
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RandRuns wrote: »
    I didn't misconstrue what you said, you said:



    Therefore anyone who can't afford a house must be too lazy to get a job, right?

    I couldn't care less about your job, you brought it up for reasons best known to yourself.

    I was making a point that I put effort into my career to further it to be able to buy a house. Maybe I should be as entitled to this social housing as anybody else.


  • Options
    #149
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Discussing it in after the news on Classic Hits, Niall Boylan show. He's clearly been reading boards.ie .I'm sure some people will use the fact that it is Niall Boylan to dismiss any discussion of it. Fair play to him for bringing it up, one of the only media figures to question what is happening right now


  • Options
    #150
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,066 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Kivaro wrote: »
    Direct Provision was the number 1 item for the Greens to form a coalition government. O' Gorman is the Minister of Children and most of his focus since becoming Minister has been on Direct Provision replacement and migrants in camps around Europe. This "State" apology has Green fingerprints all over it. You would have to wonder if they will also give everyone that has ever been in Direct Provision reparation money?

    The Greens and Roderic O' Gorman wants the self flagellation of the Irish people, but you can bet that it will not be Green backs that will be flayed, but the backs of the rest of us.

    I will never vote for any Green public representative ever again.

    Yes.

    I am 100% for more env measures / green energy / reduce carbon emissions, etc.

    They have lost me as a voter.


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    #151
    RandRuns
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I was making a point that I put effort into my career to further it to be able to buy a house. Maybe I should be as entitled to this social housing as anybody else.

    You are.

    If your earnings are within the thresholds, then you qualify, just like anybody else does.


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