Govt to replace Direct Provision with protection system

Tacitus Kilgore

chops018 wrote: »

Fair enough, my post was a bit wider than the immediate thread topic/discussion. But my point was these type of plans from the government cost money, tax payers money, and something like this most likely will not be run properly and will just lead to issues for the citizens and as has been mentioned might have an affect on property. Of course it might be run brilliantly and the Government might sort out the housing crisis in tandem with it and that would be great. However, I doubt that. As I said I am very lucky in many ways. Just frustrated that it is hard to get a house for my family when I did what we were told - get educated, go to college, get a job, save, house etc. To add to that the services we get in this country for the tax we pay is not great - even simple things like train services etc.

But I do agree. It is not the immigrants/asylum seekers themselves personally I have an issue with. It is not their fault.

I'm in the same boat as you re: a house & the cost tbh - my anger is at the government & how the place has been managed - particularly since the 08 downturn., I just feel it's very easy to be duped into blaming X or Y for problems, when they really have nothing to do with them.

Tacitus Kilgore

Deleted User wrote: »

I was making a point that I put effort into my career to further it to be able to buy a house. Maybe I should be as entitled to this social housing as anybody else.

In an ideal world, we all would be..

suicide_circus

suicide_circus wrote: »

Is own door accom for asylum seekers an international norm?

It's hard to get exact information on most countries in europe, I know before the UK used to house people in own door accomodation but once your were accepted you then have to move out within a certain timeframe (maybe 12-18 months) and make your own way in life like everyone else. I'm not sure if this is still the case, also I don't know if this new Irish system will operate the same.

ExMachina1000

On one level I hope that this move to own door accommodation policy leads to a massive spike in numbers coming here claiming asylum. A 5x increase or more and the knock on effect that will come with it such as small towns where young people who are still living at home because of rent costs seeing large groups of asylum seekers moving into their own accommodation

Some people need to have their eyes opened wide before they can see

Tacitus Kilgore

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

On one level I hope that this move to own door accommodation policy leads to a massive spike in numbers coming here claiming asylum. A 5x increase or more and the knock on effect that will come with it such as small towns where young people who are still living at home because of rent costs seeing large groups of asylum seekers moving into their own accommodation

Some people need to have their eyes opened wide before they can see

it's more than the immigrants/asylum seekers that dictates the housing & rental prices here. Why are they so high already if they do?

Mules

Deleted User wrote: »

It's hard to get exact information on most countries in europe, I know before the UK used to house people in own door accomodation but once your were accepted you then have to move out within a certain timeframe (maybe 12-18 months) and make your own way in life like everyone else. I'm not sure if this is still the case, also I don't know if this new Irish system will operate the same.

Refugee camps are the norm;
tents and containers.

ExMachina1000

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

On one level I hope that this move to own door accommodation policy leads to a massive spike in numbers coming here claiming asylum. A 5x increase or more and the knock on effect that will come with it such as small towns where young people who are still living at home because of rent costs seeing large groups of asylum seekers moving into their own accommodation

Some people need to have their eyes opened wide before they can see

Unfortunately increased numbers like that for a few years even if it brings the issue to the fore will create untold social issues for years to come.

TomTomTim

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

it's more than the immigrants/asylum seekers that dictates the housing & rental prices here. Why are they so high already if they do?

Is it? Hypothetically, If we deported every immigrant tomorrow are you saying that we'd still have a housing issue?

Geuze

chops018 wrote: »

Personally, I have become a much more right wing thinking person after the last year two and prefer we look after our own citizens and domestic issues first. I would rather see "Jacinta" and her kids get housed over Asylum Seekers/Immigrants first. We should sort out our own domestic homeless situation and housing crisis first and try to overcome that substantially before wholly accepting Immigrants/Asylum seekers on mass. I know we cannot just refuse to accept them point blank but a rigorous screening process and plan in place for selection or else back you go. Then quarterly reviews of their situation and if they are unable to integrate and contribute to society within 12 to 18 months then sorry off you go.

Correct, and anybody with any sense is against giving accomm to illegal immigrants.

Genuine refugees are welcome, and we already have two schemes to receive them - great.

This scheme is aimed at illegal immigrants.

We all know, and it has been established over and over, that the vast majority of AS are bogus.

Indeed, I am coming towards the conclusion that all AS are bogus.


It is our fault though, we allow the bogus AS to appeal and appeal after receiving a rejection.

Then, when the appeals fail, we give them leave to remain!!

You couldn't make it up.

By the way, your colleagues in the law do well out of all of this.

Mules

Mules wrote: »

Refugee camps are the norm;
tents and containers.

Ya, could be. I don't know the ins and outs of most European countries. Definitely outside Europe I would expect that to be the case

Tacitus Kilgore

TomTomTim wrote: »

Is it? Hypothetically, If we deported every immigrant tomorrow are you saying that we'd still have a housing issue?

Do you mean asylum seeker or every immigrant as in any British / European /American / Asian / African currently living here?

If you mean the former - no

If you mean the latter - yes, but would creat untold amounts of other problems

Atlantic Dawn

Geuze wrote: »

Correct, and anybody with any sense is against giving accomm to illegal immigrants.

Genuine refugees are welcome, and we already have two schemes to receive them - great.

The problem is you could probably count on your hands the number of people who arrive in Ireland each year to claim refugee status that arrived in Ireland directly from an unsafe country.

suicide_circus

Blaming asylum seekers for current house prices/rents is crazy

Thinking that asylum seekers being given own door accommodation in the community will not put upward pressure on house prices/rents is equally crazy

Sir Oxman

Deleted User wrote: »

Discussing it in after the news on Classic Hits, Niall Boylan show. He's clearly been reading boards.ie .I'm sure some people will use the fact that it is Niall Boylan to dismiss any discussion of it. Fair play to him for bringing it up, one of the only media figures to question what is happening right now

Ah sure, there's no need.
The national broadcaster has already covered it so well - Morning ireland - NGO reps and a retired judge who got a nice earner doing up a report on DP - his contribution? "It doesn't go far enough and it's time we heard the prisoners 'sing and tell their tales' '' that's the level of debate an contribution on a flagship station and flagship news show

Then we had Claire Byrne an hour later, three NGO contributors in a row.
Isn't that the official opinion of Ireland well covered?!
We've already been told what *everybody* thinks!

Geuze

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

it's more than the immigrants/asylum seekers that dictates the housing & rental prices here. Why are they so high already if they do?

All immigrants add to housing demand.

The vast majority of the 85,000 immigrants last year are legal.

Much of the increase in housing demand is due to legal immigration, for example the Brazilians, Indians, etc.

The illegal immigrants (bogus AS), if given their "own-door", also add to demand.

Sir Oxman

Sir Oxman wrote: »

Ah sure, there's no need.
The national broadcaster has already covered it so well - Morning ireland - NGO reps and a retired judge who got a nice earner doing up a report on DP - his contribution? "It doesn't go far enough and it's time we heard the prisoners 'sing and tell their tales' '' that's the level of debate an contribution on a flagship station and flagship news show

Then we had Claire Byrne an hour later, three NGO contributors in a row.
Isn't that the official opinion of Ireland well covered?!
We've already been told what to think.

Luckily for me I don't listen to Claire Byrne

Geuze

TomTomTim wrote: »

Is it? Hypothetically, If we deported every immigrant tomorrow are you saying that we'd still have a housing issue?

I would go further than stopping bogus AS.

I would restrict non-EU immgration.

Given that there are 20m unemployed across the EU, why does our labour market need non-EU immigrants?

Mules

Deleted User wrote: »

Ya, could be. I don't know the ins and outs of most European countries. Definitely outside Europe I would expect that to be the case

They have tents in Greece.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telesurenglish.net/amp/news/First-Case-of-COVID-19-in-a-Refugee-Camp-in-Greece-20200401-0013.html

Geuze

Geuze wrote: »

The vast majority of the 85,000 immigrants last year are legal.

That's an incredible figure in one year in a country as small as Ireland. Even if it's not the net figure. I feel like I'm living in an industrial estate for businesses not in a country...

Geuze

Esho wrote: »

I'm happy Direct Provision is over - it is not right for anyone to live in such crap conditions.

Always remember - anybody in DP is totally free to leave anytime.

If they are genuinely fleeing persecution, then DP should be paradise.


However, we know the truth - 50% of AS arrive from the UK!!

They are economic migrants, illegal immigrants.

Geuze

Deleted User wrote: »

That's an incredible figure in one year in a country as small as Ireland. Even if it's not the net figure. I feel like I'm living in am industrial estate for businesses not in a country...

Here is the data:

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2020/

Beechwoodspark

suicide_circus wrote: »

Is own door accom for asylum seekers an international norm?

Genuinely have never heard of any other country doing it.

Tacitus Kilgore

Would quoting the nett figures not be more accurate for the discussion ?

Geuze

Geuze wrote: »

Here is the data:

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2020/

Ya, cheers. I follow it closely, have done for years, have started to tune out for the last couple of years because there seems to be no end to it. We will never have a properly functioning system, our only control over immigration is when our economy collapses and demand reduces

Doctor Roast

Mules wrote: »

They have tents in Greece.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telesurenglish.net/amp/news/First-Case-of-COVID-19-in-a-Refugee-Camp-in-Greece-20200401-0013.html

Which they burned down.... Aswell as defecating in and vandalising churches, stealing property, poisoning dogs, slaughtering the locals sheep and cutting down their centuries old olive trees..all the while the NGOs were marching around Moira smiling smugly at the locals recording them

Tacitus Kilgore

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Would quoting the nett figures not be more accurate for the discussion ?

Nett is the important figure but the Gross number is also very telling, we have huge numbers coming in and are reliant on people leaving to bring that down. America and the UK aim for about 1/6th to 1/7th of a percentage per annum. That figure in Ireland would result in Nett immigration of about 5,000 to 7,000 a year, we are massively over that

Tacitus Kilgore

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nett is the important figure but the Gross number is also very telling, we have huge numbers coming in and are reliant on people leaving to bring that down. America and the UK aim for about 1/6th to 1/7th of a percentage per annum. That figure in Ireland would result in Nett immigration of about 5,000 to 7,000 a year, we are massively over that

We are also experiencing a lot more growth and job creation per capita than those countries. We need nett immigration, but we also need to sort out our housing system. Badly need to. One doesn't need to cancel the other out

The reason for our housing crisis is government policy.

That's the start, middle and end of it.

Having the paupers blaming immigrants is the classic distraction, while the rich run off with all the money.

Tacitus Kilgore

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

We are also experiencing a lot more growth and job creation per capita than those countries. We need nett immigration, but we also need to sort out our housing system. Badly need to. One doesn't need to cancel the other out

Yes, I'm pro immigration, but it has to be controlled, of benefit to the country and managed. That to me is around 5,000 people nett per year. At the moment we have that alone in asylum/refugees and people been brought in from UN run camps. Add in all further forms of immigration and we are way over where we should be.

Last week we also announced further opening of our visa laws as well which will increase numbers more. I did hear however Sinn Fein complaining about the lack of training for first and second generation Zulu speakers in Finglas, unreal

GT89

GT89 wrote: »

If this happens I suspect the National Party will become a serious political force.

The National Party will always be no more than a rinky-dink gathering of screwballs.


Boards could establish a party in the morn and it'd be immediately more meaningful than that lot.