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Govt to replace Direct Provision with protection system

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13567…77

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    #62
    RobbingBandit
    Registered Users Posts: 18,087 ✭✭✭✭RobbingBandit


    I'll never talk Donald


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    #63
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,086 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »
    What do the asylum system changes have to do with that?

    Any policy that encourages bogus AS to arrive here puts upward pressure on demand for housing.

    Therefore, rents and house prices rise.

    If local councils increase the amount of housing that they buy and/or rent, then demand rises.

    With a lack of supply, prices rise.

    This is happening now, reported all the time, local councils paying huge rents, and paying 400k-600k for houses / apts.

    There is a double whammy - your 48.5% marginal income tax is collected by the State, and then used to compete against you in the housing market!!!


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    #64
    RandRuns
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »
    Does this new system mean the end of affordable housing or something? what am i not seeing here....?

    These houses are being provided by AHB's. Currently, the vast majority of social and affordable housing is being provided by those same AHB's. They have limited bandwidth, due to staffing, finances, and, most of all, land and builders. This programme will take up most if not all of their resources, therefore little or no social or affordable houses will be built.


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    #65
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,070 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    RobbingBandit wrote: »
    I'll never talk Donald




    I don't think the Artane Boys Band would be able for anything too complicated up in Croker anyway so they better not change it to anything too complicated


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    #66
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Doctor Roast wrote: »
    Are we ever going to get politicians that think and act in the interests of Irish people?

    What we have at the moment is project implementation managers for the EU and various other organisations

    The great irony here is that somewhere along the way the elites decided to abandon the core of what democracy is about: serving the people. Now nation states are ran based on global interests and not the interests of the people, which you could argue is a betrayal of democracy. If some politician came along and ran purely on serving the Irish, they'd be called a "threat to democracy", a "radical", "dangerous".

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #67
    kildare lad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    ELM327 wrote: »
    This may be the catalyst for a right wing party to finally emerge here and clean up the left mess in government.
    Super woke nonsense, decided by the voter mass of those that dont pay income tax, paid for by people like myself.

    And they wonder why right wing parties are on the rise in europe . Out of touch politicians with pensions , listening to NGOs are to blame for it. They'll fall back to the tactics of calling everyone racist who disagrees with it .


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    #68
    WrenBoy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    The Hospitals were not fit to handle the current population even before the pandemic.
    Young people who want to buy their own home to raise a family are finding it very difficult and expensive, impossible for many.
    People are reaching middle age and are still living with their parents as they languish on the social housing list.
    Our mental health services and services to aid families caring for special needs members is an embarrassment.
    We will have to deal with the repercussions of the global pandemic and shut down of the majority of our economy for years to come

    We do not have the money to provide for the rest of the worlds people, unless we severely deprive our own people.


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    #69
    chopperbyrne
    Registered Users Posts: 10,974 ✭✭✭✭chopperbyrne


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    Stairway to Heaven?
    Kashmir?

    Going to California


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    #70
    Tacitus Kilgore
    Registered Users Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Tacitus Kilgore


    RandRuns wrote: »
    These houses are being provided by AHB's. Currently, the vast majority of social and affordable housing is being provided by those same AHB's. They have limited bandwidth, due to staffing, finances, and, most of all, land and builders. This programme will take up most if not all of their resources, therefore little or no social or affordable houses will be built.

    The enormous funding & resources currently spent on the provision of privately provided asylum related services will surely be diverted no??

    There's plenty of land in this country, we're one of the lowest densely populated countries around.


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    #71
    kildare lad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »
    The enormous funding & resources currently spent on the provision of privately provided asylum related services will surely be diverted no??

    There's plenty of land in this country, we're one of the lowest densely populated countries around.

    Populated by the densest politicians around


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    #72
    Tacitus Kilgore
    Registered Users Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Tacitus Kilgore


    kildare lad wrote: »
    Populated by the densest politicians around


    Your fact based arguments amaze me.


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    #73
    timmyntc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,813 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »
    The enormous funding & resources currently spent on the provision of privately provided asylum related services will surely be diverted no??

    There's plenty of land in this country, we're one of the lowest densely populated countries around.

    Low density != land availability.
    If anything the low rise nature of our towns and cities exacerbates land scarcity.


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    #74
    Tacitus Kilgore
    Registered Users Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Tacitus Kilgore


    WrenBoy wrote: »
    The Hospitals were not fit to handle the current population even before the pandemic.
    Young people who want to buy their own home to raise a family are finding it very difficult and expensive, impossible for many.
    People are reaching middle age and are still living with their parents as they languish on the social housing list.
    Our mental health services and services to aid families caring for special needs members is an embarrassment.
    We will have to deal with the repercussions of the global pandemic and shut down of the majority of our economy for years to come

    We do not have the money to provide for the rest of the worlds people, unless we severely deprive our own people.


    What does any of this have to do with changing the asylum system from private to public?


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    #75
    Tacitus Kilgore
    Registered Users Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Tacitus Kilgore


    timmyntc wrote: »
    Low density != land availability.
    If anything the low rise nature of our towns and cities exacerbates land scarcity.

    Correct, plus the hoarding of land, vacant properties / derelictions.



    but no, it's the asylum seekers fault that land is expensive....


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    #76
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,215 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »
    They're already put straight into hotels & dp centres anyway - the difference now is that the govt. will be providing the services instead of private companies being paid huge amounts with profit...

    This isn't the floodgates moment that the reaction is claiming..

    The proposed system does appear to be a lot more generous than the existing - evident by all the usual suspects saying this is a great idea.

    A more generous system will, just by virtue of being generous , will act as a draw to the genuine and the bogus. We only have to look at the pre-dp system to give us a flavour of the pressure this system is going to end up under, and people are significantly more mobile now than they were back then.


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    #77
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    This lad is joke. What are the state meant to be apologizing for exactly? You'd think that we had them in shackles picking cotton the way some people go on.

    O'Gorman will 'consider' State apology on Direct Provision but 'the best thing we can do is create new system'

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #78
    WrenBoy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »
    What does any of this have to do with changing the asylum system from private to public?

    Government money being spent on building houses and providing for non-citizens will not benefit the citizens currently here and struggling. The DP centre issue needs to be solved but this seems masochistic, you cannot have a generous welfare state with weak immigration policies. Wont work.


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    #79
    RandRuns
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »
    The enormous funding & resources currently spent on the provision of privately provided asylum related services will surely be diverted no??

    There's plenty of land in this country, we're one of the lowest densely populated countries around.

    There is a limit to how many houses can be built every year. This is limited by the available skilled workforce, the serviced and suitable land available (yes we've a low density population, but you can't build houses in Offaly bogs, Clare floodplains, or Kerry mountains), the capacity of our services (try getting a water or sewage connection anywhere outside of the cities right now), the capacity of the AHB's to oversee the work, and, despite what you seem to think is a magical forest of money trees, the finance.

    We can build a certain number of houses each year. Somebody has to do without.


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    #80
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Suppose all them lovely young helpless children in Calais need a big hug and more hugs and brought in so we can baby them......

    Far from children these men are.


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    #81
    Tacitus Kilgore
    Registered Users Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Tacitus Kilgore


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    The proposed system does appear to be a lot more generous than the existing - evident by all the usual suspects saying this is a great idea.

    A more generous system will, just by virtue of being generous , will act as a draw to the genuine and the bogus. We only have to look at the pre-dp system to give us a flavour of the pressure this system is going to end up under, and people are significantly more mobile now than they were back then.


    A sensible argument and point, I will need to look into it from this view - to see what these technical changes that appear to make this system more exploitable - as you say.


    On a very low level, obvious basis - I am glad that hotels and other busineses that should be shut 20 years due to being terrible investments in terrible places - are no longer going to make enormous profits for providing sub-standard services, at an enormous cost to the taxpayer.


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    #82
    Tacitus Kilgore
    Registered Users Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Tacitus Kilgore


    WrenBoy wrote: »
    Government money being spent on building houses and providing for non-citizens will not benefit the citizens currently here and struggling. The DP centre issue needs to be solved but this seems masochistic, you cannot have a generous welfare state with weak immigration policies. Wont work.


    Might benefit the guys paid to build them no? rather than the money going to the rent of a hotel room for years/decades...
    RandRuns wrote: »
    There is a limit to how many houses can be built every year. This is limited by the available skilled workforce, the serviced and suitable land available (yes we've a low density population, but you can't build houses in Offaly bogs, Clare floodplains, or Kerry mountains), the capacity of our services (try getting a water or sewage connection anywhere outside of the cities right now), the capacity of the AHB's to oversee the work, and, despite what you seem to think is a magical forest of money trees, the finance.

    We can build a certain number of houses each year. Somebody has to do without.


    Do you not think the money currently spent on DP is large, and very wasteful? - its going to become available for the building of assets, rather than the renting of other peoples assets.

    (i know many would like to see it entirely abolished, but this IS a positive step compared to how our public money is being spent right now)


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    #83
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Big win for our enormous and flourishing NGO industry


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    #84
    Tacitus Kilgore
    Registered Users Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Tacitus Kilgore


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Big win for our enormous and flourishing NGO industry

    big loss for private hoteliers, and mosney


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    #85
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Big loss for anyone on a housing waiting list


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    #86
    kildare lad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    timmyntc wrote: »
    Low density != land availability.
    If anything the low rise nature of our towns and cities exacerbates land scarcity.

    Sure just build houses everywhere, that worked so well the last time , sure let's stick loads of people in roscommon , where are they going to find employment?


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    #87
    Tacitus Kilgore
    Registered Users Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Tacitus Kilgore


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Big loss for anyone on a housing waiting list

    Why?


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    #88
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    TomTomTim wrote: »
    This lad is joke. What are the state meant to be apologizing for exactly? You'd think that we had them in shackles picking cotton the way some people go on.

    O'Gorman will 'consider' State apology on Direct Provision but 'the best thing we can do is create new system'

    Direct Provision was the number 1 item for the Greens to form a coalition government. O' Gorman is the Minister of Children and most of his focus since becoming Minister has been on Direct Provision replacement and migrants in camps around Europe. This "State" apology has Green fingerprints all over it. You would have to wonder if they will also give everyone that has ever been in Direct Provision reparation money?

    The Greens and Roderic O' Gorman wants the self flagellation of the Irish people, but you can bet that it will not be Green backs that will be flayed, but the backs of the rest of us.

    I will never vote for any Green public representative ever again.


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    #89
    Tacitus Kilgore
    Registered Users Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Tacitus Kilgore


    kildare lad wrote: »
    Sure just build houses everywhere, that worked so well the last time , sure let's stick loads of people in roscommon , where are they going to find employment?


    your solution is "stick them in hotels for enormous rates" instead so..


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    #90
    Doctor Roast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Doctor Roast


    TomTomTim wrote: »
    The great irony here is that somewhere along the way the elites decided to abandon the core of what democracy is about: serving the people. Now nation states are ran based on global interests and not the interests of the people, which you could argue is a betrayal of democracy. If some politician came along and ran purely on serving the Irish, they'd be called a "threat to democracy", a "radical", "dangerous".

    100% seems they have no allegiance to the people who pay them or elected them to serve, sure they have new Irish now...


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    #91
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,406 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »
    Why?
    Because the free "foreva house" brigade now have additional competition.
    Jacintha from Dublin will now have to compete with Hassan the economic migrant.


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