What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

seenitall wrote: »

Yes, the Balkans area is a mixture of east and west culturally. And not just in the areas with a lot of Islam present. The racism in some of these nations is almost unbelievable to a regular westerner. A typical Joe in the street is of a firm belief that black people are no more than apes who can speak (thus all the banana-throwing towards black players in football matches).

Ahh.. racism.. no.. that's not my issue with the Balkans. You see, I would consider myself rather realistic and practical when it comes to racism. I don't hold to these double standards that seem the rage these days.

Every nation has parts of its society who are racist. Whether that's the people living deep in the countryside, or in strictly populated ethnic groupings within a city, we have racism everywhere. Now.. I don't see that as being a particularly bad thing.. it's just the way humanity is. We are generally uncomfortable with those who are obviously different from ourselves, and while experience can mitigate that discomfort, it's also likely to reinforce racial stereotypes, and reinforce preconceived notions about others.

I spent a lot of time in Continental Europe as a teenager. My parents bought a little caravan when we were kids, and the subsequent decade or so, we spent motoring around Europe, and experiencing "all" that it could offer.. and as I picked up a variety of phrases and expressions in various languages, I managed to meet a wide range of people from different countries... and the one common thing was.. a degree of racism. Not the foaming in the mouth Nazi racism that is so often spoken of, nor the white supremacy, but simply a discomfort when it came to other races, and often, other nationalities. There was nothing evil or mean in it.. it was commonplace, and general politeness would generally kick in before it manifested into anything more obvious.

So.. no.. I don't buy into this belief that western nations are/were less racist than others. We just keep telling ourselves and others that we are... Although considering how much the perception about racism has changed over the last few decades, it's a wonder we know whether we are actually racist or not.

These are hard peoples, with very turbulent and tortured histories throughout; the area is a political pressure-cooker. Politicians like Orban (and others in the region, not to be singling out Hungary and its people) well understand that taking in, ahem, climate refugees would quickly lead to a spectacular sihtshow to the detriment of everyone concerned. It would (and could yet) be done on a very protracted boil-the-frog basis, however most of these countries make up one area of Europe where I don’t have many concerns that the whole dogmatic wokeness around the issue of migrants will be viable for a good while yet. And by the stage one could dream to expect it to become so in the fullness of time, Western Europe will long have been singing from a different hymn sheet altogether, anyway.

Yup, the hardness is definitely there, although the same hardness can be seen throughout Eastern Europe and Russia. I think it's more to do with the degree of corruption that exists at most levels of society and culture. They'll take advantage of the whole wokeness crap going on in Western Europe, while managing to deflect it away from their own societies, which retain a strong sense of traditional thinking, and more rigid social hierarchies.

In any case, for my own part, most of my own experiences with people from the Balkan region has been dodgy. A greater emphasis on dabbling with the illegal or shay side of things, which is often reflected in their own culture, which is why I wouldn't be terribly keen on them being accepted as the same as any other Europeans. But, that's just me.. I guess others are more.. open-minded.

I think the beauty of multiculturalism is the many differences there are in the world.
I would hate to be the type of person that judges all people because they are different to Irish/western white society.
The funny thing is, western white society varies widely in western white countries!
I would imagine it's tiring, having to judge people all the time based on where they are from.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

You see the same thing with the politicization of race and gender — well-meaning people going out of their way to divide the society into tinier and yet tinier units, utterly weak. They seem very pleased with themselves, but not as pleased as those who argue that society is a myth.

Well-meaning people who are guaranteeing true racial/identity conflict in the future. I dunno... it's pretty obvious what is going to happen. By creating protections and elevating certain groups over others, and reinforcing the differences between those groups (emphasising race, gender, etc as identifiers), they're encouraging an Us vs Them mentality to form. Which will be compounded by the racial demographic shifts where people form tribal communities, based on their race, which also tends to encourage traditional thinking from their host cultures/religions, in turn, furthering divides.

I'm not so sure that they are well-meaning people... because their focus is so narrow. They've intentionally blind-sighted themselves so that they're unaware of the big picture or broader implications of encouraging separate identities beyond that of national allegiances.

Equality is a becoming more and more of a pipedream, since they're seeking further ways to reinforce differences based on race, gender, class, etc. We were moving away from class as an identifier, and now we're swinging back to it once more. All because these people need to promote their chosen groups as being victims, so they grasp at any number of identifiers to box people into being victims, and therefore needing help. And since all victims need a bully or aggressor, this further encourages divisions by casting others as being responsible.

There was a time, when all of this was new, and I could have believed that these people were well-meaning.. but I don't any longer. Most of those involved in this stuff are well-educated. They have the ability to see the society that they're encouraging to evolve..

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Jesus christ... and ofcourse muggins here will be expected to pay for them

What do you think you will have to pay for?

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Social housing, social welfare , education, prison spaces, gardai, court fees etc...

Id rather pay for 17,000 one way plane tickets

But those people are already living here, they are clearly looking after themselves as they cannot claim social welfare.
I would prefer 17,000 people working and paying their own way then the thousands of people we have in this country getting everything spoonfed to them.

Prison spaces and gardai? You will have to explain this one, you think that 17,000 people, who we will assume have been law abiding up till now are suddenly going to turn into massive criminals and end up in prison?
Crazy thinking Eric.

Btw, there won't be anymore spending on any of those things.

Wibbs wrote: »

How are they paying income tax?

I'm assuming, like thousands of others in the country that they are not. They will be in future though.
We would be a long time locking up tax dodgers in this country.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Or how about just because we have problems in sections of society that are legally here / born here, we don't start using that as an excuse to allow thousands of criminals keep taking the piss out of our immigration system.

Who is allowing thousands of criminals to take the piss?

Annasopra wrote: »

The source has a racist agenda.

The source frames the story racistly using particular language and images.

How can people in this thread who go out of their way to say they are not racist be taken seriously when they are sharing links from racist websites.

Well... Cheers for that. A single poster provides a link, and suddenly we're all responsible for the sharing of that link.

Come on. You've been on boards long enough not to pander to that kind of retarded logic.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

“They will in the future” come off it... even if some of those 17,000 did work, and if an even tinier percentage worked hard enough to actually pay tax, the ones that won’t work at all will still suck so much out of the system that those who do pay wont offset it. With the stroke of a pen the government further burdening us with debt for no good reason and with that lit a giant neon sign to the rest of the world saying “free houses and piss easy access to the EU over here lads”

It's not just that, although the costs are important. It's what comes after. There's a habit of ignoring the cultural differences between countries, especially when it comes to corruption, or social values. Many of the illegals who are here come from countries with high degrees of corruption as part of their cultural behavior, with little appreciation for the following of laws.

Many of these illegals will have had relatively good lives here already, by breaking the law. They will have availed themselves of a variety of State supports/welfare while here, because many departments won't exclude those without documentation, and on top of that, there's a range of services which are made available to everyone, regardless of whether they were taxpayers or not. The point being that they've already managed to twist the system to benefit themselves, in many cases, for extended periods of time.

Do we really believe that these people will suddenly take on the tax burdens/costs that the rest of Irish people have been experiencing? That they will suddenly start respecting our laws, and the way of life here? That they won't continue to apply their own perspective of corruption, and the bending of systems to benefit themselves?

This is a bad precedent to set.