Swine Flu Vaccination + general swine flu chat thread

whatawaster · 20-07-2009 12:30pm

Couple of quick ones on this vaccine.

I read an article in the guardian which suggested only half the UK population will have received it by the end of this year. Will the same delays apply in Ireland or will we all receive it quicker because we have a much smaller population?

Would the vaccine still protect, at least to some extent, against a possible mutated form of the virus?

Also how effective are these flu vaccines, or is there any way of knowing? Do they guarantee you won’t contract the virus, or lessen its effects if you do?

tallaght01 · 20-07-2009 12:45pm

No vaccine is 100% effective.

The numbers given will depend on how many are bought, whether they're given free, and how many people agree to have it. This will, conversely, affect how effective the vaccine is.

As for when it will be available, well that will depend on when the safety checks are done. Safety committees are meeting at very short notice to examine the data, and ethics committees are having special meetings to approve the trials. So, it's all ploughing ahead.

I would have said we were looking at november for when it will be ready. Lots of the kids dosing trials (working out what dose of the vaccine gives best results) will be going on until october anyway. But some people reckon it'll be ready earlier.

The_Conductor · 20-07-2009 3:56pm

My little sis has just been admitted to hospital with suspected Swine Flu. Shes in Auckland, I'm really worried about her- I have no idea what her condition is, and no way of contacting her.

Very worried.

Shane

DrIndy · 20-07-2009 4:02pm

Phone the hospital and ask to be put through to the ward and ask to speak to her. Hospitals are 24 hours so even though its the middle of the night here - you will be able to get through to the nursing staff.

CathyMoran · 20-07-2009 5:54pm

We were not given the hospital for her

She may be out now, but we are not sure - has been the longest few hours of our lives...it really hit home. She is my husbands youngest sister and we are very protective of her.

bug · 20-07-2009 9:38pm

Ive read that the virus makes its way further down the digestive tract into the intestines unlike seasonal flu's.

If this is the case would/could this be an addtional transmission "pathway" for transmission.
Does/would it survive the stomach and get into the intestine that way.

i.e. could the virus not only be transferred through coughing and sneezing i.e. droplets but also through fecal matter like bacteria?

Honolulu · 21-07-2009 6:48pm

I apparently have suspected Swine Flu and have been off work since yesterday. I didn't feel the best all weekend and felt horrific when I woke up yday so went to the GP who basically told me I had suspected Swine Flu (I have also just returned from Spain a week ago so that added to it, as well as symptoms such as, sore throat, headache, temperature, streaming nose, muscle aches and pains).

When I asked was he going to swab me he said no, that the criteria had changed and while it was highly likely that I have it, they are only swabbing people with underlying health issues. It has been decided that reasonably healthy people like myself (I'm 24) will just be treated as though they have normal flu.

The one thing I did find strange though was that I was given a prescription for Augmentin. Now I'm no doctor but that is an antibiotic which is used to treat bacterial infections, NOT viral infections. At the time I felt so awful I didn't think about it and it was only when I told my mother that she flipped. She headed straight back around to the surgery and demanded a prescription for Tamiflu or anything that treats flu. The doctor had left and the secretary had checked my notes. All the doctor (locum) had written down was "sore throat, runny nose". It was lucky enough that I had the doctors note for my job which said "suspected swine flu" which is why I then got the correct prescription.

I started the Tamiflu straight away and I do feel a bit better however feel like I am developing a cough which was always going to happen. It's just annoyed me that I won't know for sure whether or not I have it and have to take a week off work - granted I feel like sh*t and couldn't go in anyway.

The only rational explanation I got was from a nurse friend today who said it is most likely swine flu, reason being most people don't just develop the flu unless there is an outbreak of it. In the middle of the summer there are usually no outbreaks and at the moment the only outbreak of flu is Swine Flu, so that pretty much explains it.

It's just annoying that we have to deal with incompetent doctors who don't want to cause mass hysteria so aren't treating patients properly.

The_Conductor · 21-07-2009 7:24pm

smccarrick wrote: »

My little sis has just been admitted to hospital with suspected Swine Flu. Shes in Auckland, I'm really worried about her- I have no idea what her condition is, and no way of contacting her.

Very worried.

Shane

Was released after a day in observation on a drip to rehydrate her and antiviral medication- but still very ill. Next problem- she's lost her passport....... Arrrgghhhhh......... Thank god another sis is with her to take care of her- I wish they had a phone though!

Honolulu · 21-07-2009 9:27pm

I demanded it because up until this week, all news reports were saying that Tamiflu was what EVERYONE with symptoms was being given, I didn't realise that Swine flu had effectively been downgraded AGAIN by the HSE. I have a friend that was put on Tamiflu 2 weeks ago because his mother had contracted Swine flu, yet he showed no symptoms whatsoever. Excuse me for freaking out a bit, come back to me when you get it and let me know how you feel, because you probably will get it.

I hate cynics.

DrIndy · 22-07-2009 1:33am

Ok folks - keep it civil or be banned. This forum like all the others does not tolerate flaming or personal insults.

The guidelines keep changing with swine flu as to who to treat, who to swab, who to isolate, who to contract trace as the pandemic alert system in each country is at a different level from other countries who have more or less cases.

This is a huge headache for doctors as well as frustrating for patients as 2 days later, their relative is being treated differently from themselves and not all doctors are being given daily updates on what to do and what not to do.

we cannot comment on boards as to individual cases or discuss a doctors rationale at the time for prescribing whatever drug on this forum - but can keep chatting generally on this topic.

embraer170 · 22-07-2009 3:27pm

Is tamiflu over the counter or prescription?

The_Conductor · 22-07-2009 3:38pm

embraer170 wrote: »

Is tamiflu over the counter or prescription?

Prescription only.

Mr.Nice Guy · 22-07-2009 6:49pm

This is a question based on something I read on the HSE website. It said those who have been infected with the virus will not receive the vaccine.

Does this mean those who recover from the virus won't get it? If so, why? Because they will be immune to getting it again perhaps?

LeotheLion · 22-07-2009 6:56pm

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

This is a question based on something I read on the HSE website. It said those who have been infected with the virus will not receive the vaccine.

Does this mean those who recover from the virus won't get it? If so, why? Because they will be immune to getting it again perhaps?

Yes,If they have already gotten the Flu by the time the vaccine is out,it will be a waste of time to give them the vaccine as their body have already being exposed to the H1N1 virus

Mr.Nice Guy · 22-07-2009 7:02pm

LeotheLion wrote: »

Yes,If they have already gotten the Flu by the time the vaccine is out,it will be a waste of time to give them the vaccine as their body have already being exposed to the H1N1 virus

I see. That makes sense.

One other quick question. For those who allergic to penicillin, will they be able to take Tamiflu should they require it?

LeotheLion · 22-07-2009 7:09pm

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I see. That makes sense.

One other quick question. For those who allergic to penicillin, will they be able to take Tamiflu should they require it?

I cant see why not as they are 2 different drugs
Tamiflu is an antiviral and penicillin is a antibiotic

givyjoe81 · 23-07-2009 4:27pm

Im a little confused by the advice on HSE, and elsewhere. If you have flu symptoms, are you not told to stay away from your GP's surgery to avoid passing it on to others, and seen as Tamiflu is only prescription, then just what are you meant to do?! Just say fcuk it, and head off to the GP before your too sick to leave the house?

Very worried now, 100k cases in Uk in last week, 850 seriously ill, 65 in intensive care, according to Sky news though.. but assuming thats true its quite alarming, they predicted 100k cases by August worst case scenario a few weeks ago, and it aint august yet!

DrIndy · 23-07-2009 4:44pm

phone your GP before heading down - this way he/she can book you in at the end of a clinic or keep you in a separate room until they can see you.

Remember a lot of people there could be very vulnerable to influenza and could run into trouble if they get it - so you shouldn't be sitting in the waiting room with them.

RonMexico · 23-07-2009 4:57pm

I think my Dad might have it.

He has been complaing with chronic tiredness for the past day or two and this morning he was vomiting and again just now.

I'm making him phone the doctor now.

suzieb · 23-07-2009 6:45pm

Also quite worried about swine flu and if I might have contracted it but feel silly asking doctor incase he thinks I'm exaggerating.

For last 3 days I've had cold,sore throat,aching back and chest pains that woke me up yesterday.
My mam tells me I'm being dramatic so am just gonna take it easy over the weekend and stay indoors and see how I get on as have no high temperature.

I also work in dental surgery and am in close contact with people every day and workmate pregnant so would hate to think I am ignoring something that could cause probs.

locum-motion · 23-07-2009 7:31pm

suzieb wrote: »

Also quite worried about swine flu and if I might have contracted it but feel silly asking doctor incase he thinks I'm exaggerating.

For last 3 days I've had cold,sore throat,aching back and chest pains that woke me up yesterday.
My mam tells me I'm being dramatic so am just gonna take it easy over the weekend and stay indoors and see how I get on as have no high temperature.

I also work in dental surgery and am in close contact with people every day and workmate pregnant so would hate to think I am ignoring something that could cause probs.

Phone your doctor in the morning.

PhysiologyRocks · 23-07-2009 7:52pm

Wasn't sure which thread to put this in.

How does Tamiflu go about its business?

PhysiologyRocks · 23-07-2009 8:11pm

It's okay, I read up on it. Got my answer!

RonMexico · 26-07-2009 7:42pm

How much of a difference is there between the severity of Swine Flu and the Winter Vomiting Bug? I had that two years ago and it was the worst week of my life.

LeotheLion · 26-07-2009 7:47pm

RonMexico wrote: »

How much of a difference is there between the severity of Swine Flu and the Winter Vomiting Bug? I had that two years ago and it was the worst week of my life.

the same difference as(a) if you scratched your itchy head with your nails
(b)freddy crugar scratched your itchy head with his nails

DrIndy · 27-07-2009 11:40am

Think i may be coming down with pig flu!

Felt crummy on saturday (put it down as a hangover)
Worse on sunday with a blocked nose.

Symptoms are progressing to a cough, blocked and runny nose and slight achiness.
I also found a new tail - it was curly and pink!

(well the last part isn't true) Oh No! I've got the swine! If the symptoms persist, I suppose I will have to be swabbed.....

tallaght01 · 27-07-2009 11:43am

DrIndy wrote: »

Think i may be coming down with pig flu!

Felt crummy on saturday (put it down as a hangover)
Worse on sunday with a blocked nose.

Symptoms are progressing to a cough, blocked and runny nose and slight achiness.
I also found a new tail - it was curly and pink!

(well the last part isn't true) Oh No! I've got the swine! If the symptoms persist, I suppose I will have to be swabbed.....

Make sure you've had symptoms for longer than 48 hours before you get tamiflu, so you'll get a week off work.

The miserable feckers are making medics use their own sick time, though, even if they caught it while volunteering to do the flu clinics!

DrIndy · 27-07-2009 12:04pm

I'll see if i improve (got a cold) or disimprove further (got the dreaded swine! Oh Noes!) tomorrow and take it from there.

I have tomorrow off so can easily slouch around and see what happens.

The_Conductor · 27-07-2009 12:06pm

DrIndy wrote: »

Think i may be coming down with pig flu!

Felt crummy on saturday (put it down as a hangover)
Worse on sunday with a blocked nose.

Symptoms are progressing to a cough, blocked and runny nose and slight achiness.
I also found a new tail - it was curly and pink!

(well the last part isn't true) Oh No! I've got the swine! If the symptoms persist, I suppose I will have to be swabbed.....

Sorry to hear it- I hope you feel better soon.

S.

harsea8 · 27-07-2009 12:20pm

tallaght01 wrote: »

Make sure you've had symptoms for longer than 48 hours before you get tamiflu, so you'll get a week off work.

The miserable feckers are making medics use their own sick time, though, even if they caught it while volunteering to do the flu clinics!

From what I've read on web, tamiflu is most effective in first 48 hours after infection, even the product information says that treatment should be started within "2 days of exposure"...beyond that its effectiveness drops off (see links below).

http://www.nowpublic.com/health/swine-flu-treatments-tamiflu-oseltamivir-ralenza-zanamivir

http://www.rocheusa.com/products/tamiflu/pi.pdf (see pages 15 and 16)

_Whimsical_ · 27-07-2009 12:54pm

Dr Indy : Sorry to hear you've been dosed!Hope you make a speedy recovery. Does this make you the offical boards.ie Swine Flu poster boy?:)

tallaght01 wrote: »

Make sure you've had symptoms for longer than 48 hours before you get tamiflu, so you'll get a week off work.

The miserable feckers are making medics use their own sick time, though, even if they caught it while volunteering to do the flu clinics!

Are medical personnel who deal with the public not immediately given time off if they have suspected Swine Flu in Ireland?

tallaght01 · 27-07-2009 1:01pm

no idea bout ireland. but i'd say they have to use their own sick days if they do go ill. It's a shame, because you could use up to 7 days for a few sniffles, but they won't let you go back earlier.

littlebug · 27-07-2009 3:26pm

Given the rate of infection in the UK I'm surprised the figures aren't higher here yet (or am I just watching too much SKY news).

I'm assuming it really take hold here when the schools start back... can't wait :rolleyes:

The_Conductor · 27-07-2009 3:38pm

How many sick days are normal for frontline staff in the HSE? In the NHS in the UK they were proposing to increment people's allowable certified sickleave by a forthnight to account for Swineflu cases- which seems like a good idea to me.....? Surely the evolution of a particular medical issue- such as Swine Flu, is reasonable cause to revisit issues such as sick leave- as its unfair to unduly penalise people who are in fact doing everyone else a favour by staying at home and taking care of themselves- instead of infecting work colleagues and others?

PhysiologyRocks · 27-07-2009 4:21pm

Think I might have it now.

Hopefully not, though.

Slumlion · 27-07-2009 5:50pm

PhysiologyRocks wrote: »

Think I might have it now.

Hopefully not, though.

Slumlion · 27-07-2009 5:53pm

If someone has a flu,what is best to drink hot or cold drinks,does the virus need high temperature to live in the body??

I dont feel the best myself lately,since yesterday morning I had sniffles and my face felt real warm,today I dont feel great either,feel warm and tired,maybe its Just a cold,I did go on an early morning cycle yesterday when it was quite cool and felt chilly after it.

DrIndy · 28-07-2009 1:40am

Slumlion wrote: »

If someone has a flu,what is best to drink hot or cold drinks,does the virus need high temperature to live in the body??

I dont feel the best myself lately,since yesterday morning I had sniffles and my face felt real warm,today I dont feel great either,feel warm and tired,maybe its Just a cold,I did go on an early morning cycle yesterday when it was quite cool and felt chilly after it.

Thats your immune system activating - phagocytes release cytokines which reset the body thermostat at a higher level than normal to make the body less hospitable for bacterial and viral proteins and help the body fight off the infection.

wheresthebeef · 28-07-2009 2:09am

Perhaps this has been answered already. I was taking a look at the UK Pandemic Flu Service Website earlier at http://pandemicflu.gov.uk
From this website, a person can go online and answer yes/no questions, give their name and address and at the end of the process print out an authorisation number for a third party to collect Oseltamivir from a pick up point. Does no-one else see a glaringly obvious problem with this i.e no medical examination, no valid prescription, no proof that the person actually needs medication, no proof that the third party "flu buddy" is acting with the consent of the supposed patient etc....
I realise that obviously in the scale of a pandemic flu GP's simply could not cope with such a number of patients, and that visiting GP's is not advised due to risks of cross infection to others. But is this really the best solution. Would you expect that people would log in and simply answer yes to the questions for themselves and family members in order to obtain their own home stockpile? i.e one dosing pack for each family member, even if those persons weren't sick.
Also, due to the fact that no medical practitioner is directly involved with the patient, if there were side effects, does this online self assessment model mean that the patient is liable for any treatment related side effects or problems.
I think its a very novel idea, and to be honest, if it were my family i'd want the medication as easily as possible, but my professional mindset is not so sure of this approach. Any opinions.

tallaght01 · 28-07-2009 6:41am

I really don't want to get into conspiracy theory stuff and naturalnews.com stuff on the forum again.

I think we all have conspiracy theories fatigue at this stage.

Turtwig · 28-07-2009 12:09pm

Linky

Not much details revealed, other than the patient is critical.

Just hope this doesn't lead to some sort of media hysteria now.

tallaght01 · 28-07-2009 12:33pm

There will be a lot more critically ill/dead patients over the coming winter in Ireland.
We've a LOT in ICU here in Oz.

_Whimsical_ · 28-07-2009 3:24pm

In todays Independent there is an article detailing one womans experience with Swine Flu.(http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/independent-woman/health-fitness/my-swine-flu-misery-1843554.html). It sounds nasty but the side effects of Tami Flu sounded even nastier. She said that when her GP came to her initially she was reluctant to give her Tami Flu as the side effects had been worse than the flu itself for alot of her other patients. The author of the article also felt dramatically more ill while on Tami Flu and stopped taking it as a result. Do most people have an adverse reaction to it ?

honerbright · 28-07-2009 4:20pm

Does anyone know how long it takes if you've been swabbed for swine flu for the results to come in?
I was swabbed yesterday morning by a useless doctor (he didnt ask me any questions regarding how I felt, if I had any underlying conditions/if I had ashtma/was pregnant/on medication etc) and I rang today to ask if they had results and all I got was a "oh we don't know anything yet, it could be a while".
Anyone else had any bad experiences with doctors once you told them you were in contact with someone with swine flu/concerned you had it?

nesf · 28-07-2009 4:57pm

chilly wrote: »

In todays Independent there is an article detailing one womans experience with Swine Flu.(http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/independent-woman/health-fitness/my-swine-flu-misery-1843554.html). It sounds nasty but the side effects of Tami Flu sounded even nastier. She said that when her GP came to her initially she was reluctant to give her Tami Flu as the side effects had been worse than the flu itself for alot of her other patients. The author of the article also felt dramatically more ill while on Tami Flu and stopped taking it as a result. Do most people have an adverse reaction to it ?

Tamiflu is not paracetamol, it has serious side effects that will affect most people at normal doses, what it will do is get rid of the flu in vast majority of cases. The problem here is that most people have never had to take any medication that has common nasty side effects. The thing is, you're better off suffering the side effects and getting rid of the flu than taking the chance that the flu could get worse, a small chance but quite a dangerous chance to take for many people.

The_Conductor · 28-07-2009 5:55pm

honerbright wrote: »

Does anyone know how long it takes if you've been swabbed for swine flu for the results to come in?
I was swabbed yesterday morning by a useless doctor (he didnt ask me any questions regarding how I felt, if I had any underlying conditions/if I had ashtma/was pregnant/on medication etc) and I rang today to ask if they had results and all I got was a "oh we don't know anything yet, it could be a while".
Anyone else had any bad experiences with doctors once you told them you were in contact with someone with swine flu/concerned you had it?

It depends on when its sent to the lab and how good they are at getting the results out. The actual lab test is less than 3 hours in total.

Maisie72 · 28-07-2009 6:17pm

Apparently there is a back log at the labs. My daughter was swabbed in the early hours of Friday morning so I presume the lab got the swabs that morning. Her results came in today. Positive I might add!

The_Conductor · 28-07-2009 6:26pm

Maisie wrote: »

Apparently there is a back log at the labs. My daughter was swabbed in the early hours of Friday morning so I presume the lab got the swabs that morning. Her results came in today. Positive I might add!

Hope she is ok! Best wishes, Shane

Dr Galen · 28-07-2009 6:42pm

i fear we're now entering the swine flu proper period following that conference from the HSE. The lad in St James along with now another person in ITU somewhere else, may only be the beginning of it. How long before we start seeing medical staff coming down with it?

@ T01 and Indy.... has that been something that has been been causing an issue over in Oz?

lucernarian · 29-07-2009 12:06am

2 questions:
What "underlying health conditions" are being implicated with the 2 ICU patients?

This is a possibly dodgy question about the flu, so if the mods do decide any answers would be medical advice, just say that, no more:).

I've got diabetes and apparently I've reason to be worried. But beyond having to control my serum glucose levels with greater difficulty and a higher chance of DKA, I have been told of nothing more. I asked my consultant straight out, what is it that makes DM patients more likely to die from the 'flu (almost 3 times more likely according to the CDC). Beyond the usual DKA type stuff, he could think of no other reason. While it was his most senior registrar instead of the consultant, it was still a bit disconcerting. The question is, "What aspects of diabetes mellitus could separately affect the immune system from dealing with H1N1?".

I don't want "go to your doctor" parroted at me, considering I have already done so, and pay €100 to ask a question that probably isn't even medical advice. I'm familiar with the implications of the mods deciding that it can be construed as medical advice, and I will as ever go to my GP for advice and treatment if I do feel ill. Thanks!

Swine Flu Vaccination + general swine flu chat thread

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