Fire in Douglas - See Mod note in post #506

Hibernicis · 04-10-2019 2:09pm

kub wrote: »

AFAIK Clayton Love lost Douglas Court and Blackpool centres to Nama.

Correct.

Douglas Developments Limited (a subsidiary of the Love family owned Shipton Group) lost control of Douglas Village SC when it was purchased by investment firm Varde Partners as part of the Spectrum portfolio in 2014. It had been put into receivership in 2012 by Bank of Scotland.

Shipton also lost control of Blackpool SC when it was purchased by Varde Partners as part of the Project Acorn portfolio in 2014.

Douglas Village Shopping Centre was developed by Clayton Love in the early 1970s and sold in 1990. The Love family reacquired it (from Owen O’Callaghan) in 1999. They also acquired a lot of property between the two centers (the old CSB/TSB admin building, cinema etc) with a view to linking them and developing hotels etc.

The Wilton Shopping Centre which was developed by the Love family in the 1970s was a sold by them to IPUT in the 1980s. It has a number of subsequent owners, including Tesco. It was sold as part of the Project Hazel portfolio in 2016. Tesco retained ownership of their store.

airy fairy · 04-10-2019 2:34pm

The engineer that was part of approving the centre as we know it, left the planning office joined Clayton Love....left him after the downturn and went back to planning.

sondagefaux · 04-10-2019 7:45pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Well hopefully we get welcome news on the N28 issue shortly, as for the Douglas flyover, ideally it could do with being widened, but i don't see how.

Doable but it would be a huge (and presumably very expensive) job:

https://menardoceania.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/2014-An-Innovative-Construction-Technique-For-Extensions-To-Existing-Reinforced-Earth-Retaining-Walls.pdf

https://dot.ca.gov/-/media/dot-media/programs/engineering/documents/memotodesigner/9-3-a11y.pdf

Mardyke · 04-10-2019 8:10pm

airy fairy wrote: »

The engineer that was part of approving the centre as we know it, left the planning office joined Clayton Love....left him after the downturn and went back to planning.

Ireland.

namloc1980 · 04-10-2019 8:32pm

Mardyke wrote: »

Ireland.

Is that uniquely Irish or something?

kub · 04-10-2019 9:13pm

airy fairy wrote: »

The engineer that was part of approving the centre as we know it, left the planning office joined Clayton Love....left him after the downturn and went back to planning.

Whilst not doubting your post, I thought that during the downturn that they were re allocating staff from the planning office to social welfare etc..

Hmmm construction industry, developers, planners where did I come across that before ?

Chris_5339762 · 04-10-2019 9:27pm

sondagefaux wrote: »

Doable but it would be a huge (and presumably very expensive) job:

https://menardoceania.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/2014-An-Innovative-Construction-Technique-For-Extensions-To-Existing-Reinforced-Earth-Retaining-Walls.pdf

https://dot.ca.gov/-/media/dot-media/programs/engineering/documents/memotodesigner/9-3-a11y.pdf

Its doable, you could put a third lane westbound (or extend a slip road from the M28 all the way over on a seperate bridge tightly up against the current one). There is easily space for it by knocking like one or two small buildings. Eastbound isn't as much of an issue, as you're limited by the tunnel at the end of the day.

TheChizler · 05-10-2019 8:03pm

I've heard second hand from one of the traders that they were blocked from moving into Douglas Court by the equivalent trader there, they're afraid of competition. Not confident how accurate that is so wont say what type of trader.

beer enigma · 10-10-2019 11:18am

Anyone heard if the 1 hour free parking will remain on the cinema site after they close today ?

airy fairy · 10-10-2019 11:34am

Are they knocking the cinema?
I couldn't imagine they'll leave cars park there while doing any remedial works?
Will it be a sole Aldi carpark when opened or who owns the carpark there?

Dbu · 10-10-2019 11:56am

beer enigma wrote: »

Anyone heard if the 1 hour free parking will remain on the cinema site after they close today ?

Doubtful, and will be another blow to the businesses in the village.

Cork Trucker · 10-10-2019 12:18pm

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/the-insurance-companies-are-fobbing-us-off--douglas-traders-waiting-for-pay-outs-956136.html

Insurers aren’t playing ball surprise surprise :rolleyes:

Odelay · 10-10-2019 1:45pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/the-insurance-companies-are-fobbing-us-off--douglas-traders-waiting-for-pay-outs-956136.html

Insurers aren’t playing ball surprise surprise :rolleyes:

In fairness it’s six weeks, this is a massive claim..

Cork Trucker · 10-10-2019 2:08pm

Odelay wrote: »

In fairness it’s six weeks, this is a massive claim..

It is, but nothing has happened since, not even the demolition.

banie01 · 10-10-2019 2:22pm

TheChizler wrote: »

I've heard second hand from one of the traders that they were blocked from moving into Douglas Court by the equivalent trader there, they're afraid of competition. Not confident how accurate that is so wont say what type of trader.

Non compete clauses in retail centres are quite common.
A pharmacist will try and ensure a lease clause stipulating only 1 dispensing chemist in a development and so on.

Hibernicis · 10-10-2019 10:30pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/the-insurance-companies-are-fobbing-us-off--douglas-traders-waiting-for-pay-outs-956136.html

Insurers aren’t playing ball surprise surprise :rolleyes:

What a truly dreadful article. Inaccurate, uninformed rubbish.

BI usually stands for Business Interruption insurance, not "Business Insurance" which if it has any meaning at all would be a totally different thing. In order to pay out under a BI policy, the loss must be quantifiable. The guilty party here appears to be the centre's owners, whose actions differ enormously from their words. (i.e. demolition to start next week....). This is a critical point, as the date of reopening is crucial in quantifying the potential loss to the trader and thereby providing a basis for the calculation of an interim payout. Mention of "full and final compensation payouts" is complete nonsense at this point as these couldn't be calculated until the centre reopens and this just reiterates the sensationalist stupidity of the article. Any payment at this time will be interim.

What is more worrying, and is probably uppermost in the insurer's minds, is the question over whether or not the centre will reopen. Crucially, if the answer to this is no, then the whole ball game changes. Until this question is answered unequivocally, the insurers are entirely correct be very prudent in respect of any payouts, interim or otherwise.

pwurple · 14-10-2019 3:25pm

++ above. Absolutely, and the talk about shops relocating is a difficult decision for many of them to take as they are legally tied into long leases (10 yrs plus) in the center anyway.

I wonder are they still being held to paying rent and rates for those units, and does that all fall into the various complicated insurance claims. Each shop may need to in turn claim off the center's insurance.

Cork Trucker · 15-10-2019 4:26pm

https://www.corkbeo.ie/news/local-news/traders-douglas-shopping-centre-cant-17088522

Traders from Douglas Shopping Centre can't receive any insurance payouts until the owners confirm the length of time it will be shut.

Bosses have previously said that they hope to re-open by summer 2020, but an exact date has never been confirmed.

airy fairy · 15-10-2019 4:31pm

Apparently the culprit car is being removed this week.
I can't see the place being opened until end of 2020 at the earliest.

Douglas Eegit · 15-10-2019 5:14pm

airy fairy wrote: »

Apparently the culprit car is being removed this week.
I can't see the place being opened until end of 2020 at the earliest.

Has the demolition started yet?

airy fairy · 15-10-2019 6:27pm

Well from passing on the link, without rubbernecking, and only seeing as passenger... it looks stationary, no grills down, lights on in either end. Same old, same old.

Dbu · 16-10-2019 10:36am

Douglas Eegit wrote: »

Has the demolition started yet?

No

TheChizler · 23-10-2019 1:05pm

The car that started the fire was hoisted out yesterday on some sort of platform. Word around Douglas was that they were remotely building a support system around it so it could be removed safely, and that's the cause of the delays.

On a seperate note, the bank in Douglas East is suddenly up for sale, is that the same property portfolio as Douglas Village?

airy fairy · 23-10-2019 2:04pm

Is that the EBS bank?

TheChizler · 23-10-2019 2:48pm

airy fairy wrote: »

Is that the EBS bank?

Not sure. The building that Wetherspoons was supposed to be going in to.

Dbu · 23-10-2019 3:18pm

TheChizler wrote: »

Not sure. The building that Wetherspoons was supposed to be going in to.

BOI were there before. Yes owned by Mr Love as well:D

airy fairy · 23-10-2019 5:10pm

Dbu wrote: »

BOI were there before. Yes owned by Mr Love as well:D

Is it him or nama though...

beer enigma · 25-10-2019 12:15pm

Falveys reopened at lunchtime today

Chuck Noland · 25-10-2019 1:43pm

Wonder when the gym will open as it has its own entrance kinda similar to the pharmacy

Ludo · 26-10-2019 8:01pm

The gym is actually part of the centre though so I can't imagine it will open before centre opens. Falveys is external...essentially a different building which the centre was built around.

Mardyke · 26-10-2019 9:08pm

Douglas Eegit wrote: »

Has the demolition started yet?

I passed through Douglas earlier....

The place is an absolute mess...

Cars all over the place... Bomb site.....

Nah I'd say nothing has happened.....

Cork Trucker · 26-10-2019 9:14pm

Mardyke wrote: »

I passed through Douglas earlier....

The place is an absolute mess...

Cars all over the place... Bomb site.....

Nah I'd say nothing has happened.....

Has construction of Aldi begun?

TheDriver · 26-10-2019 10:49pm

What's the story with the platform yoke sticking out of 1st floor over car park entrance??

Cork Trucker · 26-10-2019 10:55pm

TheDriver wrote: »

What's the story with the platform yoke sticking out of 1st floor over car park entrance??

Is that not where the offending vehicle was removed from?

TheDriver · 27-10-2019 10:31am

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Is that not where the offending vehicle was removed from?

Ahhh that makes sense.

TheChizler · 27-10-2019 11:25am

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Is that not where the offending vehicle was removed from?

No they took it out the Tesco entrance side.

murphym7 · 13-11-2019 1:52pm

Demolition works commenced yesterday. I was passing about 9:15 this morning and the traffic was backed up nearly as far back as Mahon point. People slowing down to look at what’s going on. I saw at least 3 near misses of rear endings, rain didn’t help either. I think the idea was floated here a few weeks ago that some type of barrier or sight shield needs to be put in place to stop this happening. We are in the Winter season now, they need to do something.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/demolition-of-douglas-shopping-centre-begins-three-months-after-fire-963513.html

Tom44 · 15-11-2019 1:05am

murphym7 wrote: »

Demolition works commenced yesterday. I was passing about 9:15 this morning and the traffic was backed up nearly as far back as Mahon point. People slowing down to look at what’s going on. I saw at least 3 near misses of rear endings, rain didn’t help either. I think the idea was floated here a few weeks ago that some type of barrier or sight shield needs to be put in place to stop this happening. We are in the Winter season now, they need to do something.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/demolition-of-douglas-shopping-centre-begins-three-months-after-fire-963513.html

Good idea

Chris_5339762 · 15-11-2019 9:45pm

Five cars had managed to rear end each other on the flyover this evening. Wonder if someone was having a gawk?

Gru · 15-11-2019 9:48pm

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Five cars had managed to rear end each other on the flyover this evening. Wonder if someone was having a gawk?

It's almost guaranteed. **** those people gawping at it.

kub · 15-11-2019 10:15pm

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Five cars had managed to rear end each other on the flyover this evening. Wonder if someone was having a gawk?

If people are that interested in construction, perhaps they should get jobs in that sector rather than cause traffic accidents.

Heckler · 15-11-2019 10:41pm

Gru wrote: »

It's almost guaranteed. **** those people gawping at it.

Every day this week these clowns have been causing crawling tailbacks because of their rubbernecking. First couple of days I thought there were accidents but no. Get past the flyover and its plain sailing again. Throw a low sun into the mix with everyone jamming on and its a disaster. Doesn't help with people not realising that driving into the sun the car in front is practically invisible if they don't have their lights on. I watch the cams on www.dunkettle.ie before leaving work from Glanmire and sure as **** from 4 onwards the tailback starts.

As someone posted earlier they need to put up a barrier to block off that section from the dim witted gawpers.

Started going out through Tivoli. Just as fast.

Chuck Noland · 16-11-2019 1:21am

Heckler wrote: »

Every day this week these clowns have been causing crawling tailbacks because of their rubbernecking. First couple of days I thought there were accidents but no. Get past the flyover and its plain sailing again. Throw a low sun into the mix with everyone jamming on and its a disaster. Doesn't help with people not realising that driving into the sun the car in front is practically invisible if they don't have their lights on. I watch the cams on www.dunkettle.ie before leaving work from Glanmire and sure as **** from 4 onwards the tailback starts.

As someone posted earlier they need to put up a barrier to block off that section from the dim witted gawpers.

Started going out through Tivoli. Just as fast.

Never knew about the site. Thanks for that

Heckler · 16-11-2019 9:11am

Chuck Noland wrote: »

Never knew about the site. Thanks for that

Tis handy if you're taking any of those routes especially around rush hour. That and AA roadwatch. They're normally on the ball as well with any happening incidents.

murphym7 · 17-11-2019 10:32am

I've emailed Terry Shannon letting him know of my concern and requesting him to bring this up at the city council level. Might be an idea for others to email a few other councillors to get some traction on this. It doesn't take many of these emails to get this raised at the council. My worry here is that as the site gets more "interesting" the rubbernecking will get worse.

Cork Trucker · 17-11-2019 11:10am

murphym7 wrote: »

I've emailed Terry Shannon letting him know of my concern and requesting him to bring this up at the city council level. Might be an idea for others to email a few other councillors to get some traction on this. It doesn't take many of these emails to get this raised at the council. My worry here is that as the site gets more "interesting" the rubbernecking will get worse.

I met with Terry Shannon yesterday while on a trip to the Northside, i doubt he'll be interested in anything other than the upcoming by-election on November 29th for his party colleague Padraig O'Sullivan. Give Kieran McCarthy,Mary-Rose Desmond or even Dan Boyle a shout, having dealt with him in a personal capacity he is decent enough. I'll drop him a tweet and tag Terry in it as well.

Cork Trucker · 17-11-2019 11:16am

280 characters wasn't quite enough but i got a tweet across.

https://twitter.com/CorkTruckDriver/status/1196008846617194496?s=20

airy fairy · 17-11-2019 11:18am

Cork Trucker wrote: »

I met with Terry Shannon yesterday while on a trip to the Northside, i doubt he'll be interested in anything other than the upcoming by-election on November 29th for his party colleague Padraig O'Sullivan. Give Kieran McCarthy,Mary-Rose Desmond or even Dan Boyle a shout, having dealt with him in a personal capacity he is decent enough. I'll drop him a tweet and tag Terry in it as well.

Maybe suggesting everyone contacts their chosen public representative rather than naming or sidelining certain people?

Cork Trucker · 17-11-2019 11:27am

airy fairy wrote: »

Maybe suggesting everyone contacts their chosen public representative rather than naming or sidelining certain people?

That can be done as well, but as you know some politicians aren't helpful/some are. Each to their own of course. I have my preferences, others have theirs.

TheChizler · 17-11-2019 11:30am

Heckler wrote: »

Every day this week these clowns have been causing crawling tailbacks because of their rubbernecking. First couple of days I thought there were accidents but no. Get past the flyover and its plain sailing again. Throw a low sun into the mix with everyone jamming on and its a disaster. Doesn't help with people not realising that driving into the sun the car in front is practically invisible if they don't have their lights on. I watch the cams on www.dunkettle.ie before leaving work from Glanmire and sure as **** from 4 onwards the tailback starts.

As someone posted earlier they need to put up a barrier to block off that section from the dim witted gawpers.

Started going out through Tivoli. Just as fast.

I don't know, there's always been a slowdown there where the road narrows regardless of what's going on in Douglas. Barriers could potentially make it worse as they would make the road seem even narrower.

Fire in Douglas - See Mod note in post #506

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