The Jimbo Slice memorial thread, feat Nate Dogg - The new Off Topic thread

Mellor · 10-05-2021 4:18pm

Patsy167 wrote: »

What are peoples thoughts on this recent news story - Weightlifter Laurel Hubbard has taken a step closer to becoming the first transgender athlete to compete at an Olympics after qualification rules were changed because of Covid-19.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/weightlifting/57013419

Fair game or unfair advantage?

I’m against it.
I’m completely for equality and inclusion, genuinely. I say that as many people are not, and they’ll be against this from “it’s a man vrs women” angle. That’s incorrect, and it’s not my angle.

She’s not a man. She was believed to be male at birth. But her gender identity was female. She live a large part of her life as a female trapped in a mans body. That’s the unfortunate reality.
It’s also the reason she shouldn’t be allowed to compete. As a female trapped in a male body, She was subject to supraphysiological doses of testosterone. An anabolic steroid. There is no other way to look objectively as anything other than doping.
She transitioned in her mid-30s. So was on steroids for quite some time. If it’s not acceptable for a cis-women, it’s not a trans-women. Equality.

Alf Veedersane · 10-05-2021 4:35pm

There's a really good episode of the Science of Sport podcast where they discuss the Caster Semenya case. Ross Tucker is one of the two hosts of the podcast and while he was defending Caster Semenya at CAS, it was because of the science that World Athletics used to make their regulations, but he fundamentally agrees that Caster Semenya should not be competing with women because of the physiological advantage.

It's important to maintain criteria that protect the classification of women's competition and I don't see how any criteria could allow Laurel Hubbard to compete in women's competition.

whippet · 10-05-2021 4:38pm

Hubbard has used medication to allow her to compete in the women's section - in order to alter her testosterone levels - this is doping and should be treated as such.

Mellor · 11-05-2021 5:29am

It's important to maintain criteria that protect the classification of women's competition and I don't see how any criteria could allow Laurel Hubbard to compete in women's competition.

There is a set of criteria currently. And the issue is that’s she meets the criteria.
Which is basically as long as T levels are below 10nm for 2 years. Which is just silly. As somebody juicing for 2 years and then clean for 2 yours isn’t permitted to compete in sport.

whippet wrote: »

Hubbard has used medication to allow her to compete in the women's section - in order to alter her testosterone levels - this is doping and should be treated as such.

I think she’s doling from the moment she’s a female in a make body.

But is the above definitely also true? It’s against the rules to take certain hormone medication. But I’m not sure if anti-androgen medicines are included.
I’m just thinking that those treatments are basically high doses of a contraceptive pill. Which is I guess is permitted.

Black Sheep · 11-05-2021 9:53am

I'm in favour of fairness for women and girls in sport, and unfortunately I think we probably need to learn the hard way that letting Hubbard and others compete against women is unfair. I believe transgender people have difficult lives, but nonetheless this is the wrong path. And when it comes to contact / combat sports.... Yikes.

At the end of the day, any person who went through male puberty retains an advantage - for the rest of their life - that cannot be eliminated by reducing levels of testosterone afterwards.

Males get more muscle mass, with more fast-twitch fibres, thicker, bigger bones, bigger lungs and ... puberty aside ... They have a narrow hip structure that is more optimised for acceleration and speed.

Going back to birth babies who are breast fed receive a different type of breast milk from their mother depending on whether they are male or female. Boys get more protein and more fat in the makeup.

It's remarkable really...

DylanJM · 11-05-2021 11:04am

She also trained and competed in weightlifting prior to transitioning. She lifted a 300kg total as a junior lifter. She's now doing a 285kg total as a 43 y/o female. So only 15kg difference. I would be impressed if a male lifter who hadn't transitioned was still within 15kg of their junior total as a 40 y/o.

paw patrol · 11-05-2021 12:01pm

Patsy167 wrote: »

What are peoples thoughts on this recent news story - Weightlifter Laurel Hubbard has taken a step closer to becoming the first transgender athlete to compete at an Olympics after qualification rules were changed because of Covid-19.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/weightlifting/57013419

Fair game or unfair advantage?

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I don't know how it could ever be considered fair.

Alf have put is more dialogically that I could.

It's a travesty it was even considered fair or proper.

Alf Veedersane · 11-05-2021 1:01pm

paw patrol wrote: »

Alf have put is more dialogically that I could.

Cill94 · 11-05-2021 8:19pm

Patsy167 wrote: »

What are peoples thoughts on this recent news story - Weightlifter Laurel Hubbard has taken a step closer to becoming the first transgender athlete to compete at an Olympics after qualification rules were changed because of Covid-19.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/weightlifting/57013419

Fair game or unfair advantage?

I think the answer is glaringly obvious to anyone who's ever competed in a sport where strength or speed matters (i.e. most of them).

paw patrol · 12-05-2021 8:33am

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I meant diplomatically
no idea what happened.
but it did. It's a nice word all same

Will_I_Regret · 13-05-2021 11:01pm

Anyone guess will there be an abundance of cheap dumbbells for sale when gyms open up again?

Alf Veedersane · 13-05-2021 11:14pm

Will_I_Regret wrote: »

Anyone guess will there be an abundance of cheap dumbbells for sale when gyms open up again?

For the most part, the ones being sold cheaply will be the ones that were cheap to buy, ie shíte ones

Mellor · 15-05-2021 2:17pm

Mellor wrote: »

Started a new program last week. Which called for deadlift on friday, and squats yesterday (sunday).
First time deadlifting or squatting since end of March 2019. Due to knee injury and subsequent surgery.
I did train legs, but mostly machine/rehab stuff.

Week 1 of program is 5 sets of 10 @60%. Full of regret doms right now.

Wrapped this up the other week.
Started off 90% as a training max. Ended up hitting true max for a 3-4 reps across all lifts.
Pretty happy with that as I condensed 4 days into 2 per week.

I suspect if lifting was main focus and I split into 4 days (1 per lift) progress could have been better.

Not sure whether to run it again. Or maybe try to program some body weight/cardio/grip training that I’ve neglected. .

el Fenomeno · 16-05-2021 12:29pm

Anyone else here use Bulk regularly? I'm finding their stock availability has gone really, really bad. I order the same 4 products from the for a number of years now and have never had any trouble getting any of them. All of them now have various stock issues - 2 of them OOS stock completely, regardless of size or flavour. The other has only the biggest bag available and the other only has one flavour left. I spot checked a few other things I wouldn't normally buy and appears to be stock holes all over the shop.

Alf Veedersane · 16-05-2021 12:41pm

I've had no issues with Bulk anyway

Dtp1979 · 16-05-2021 12:48pm

Mellor wrote: »

Wrapped this up the other week.
Started off 90% as a training max. Ended up hitting true max for a 3-4 reps across all lifts.
Pretty happy with that as I condensed 4 days into 2 per week.

I suspect if lifting was main focus and I split into 4 days (1 per lift) progress could have been better.

Not sure whether to run it again. Or maybe try to program some body weight/cardio/grip training that I’ve neglected. .

That’s great progress. What plan was it?

Mellor · 16-05-2021 2:20pm

Dtp1979 wrote: »

That’s great progress. What plan was it?

It was The Juggernaut method.
It's supposed to be 4 days, each day focused on a main lift plus specific assistance. But I merged to be two days, two lifts and two assistance per day.

First time really pushing squats and deadlifts after knee surgery in 2019. So a bit to go to regain all time PRs there. But I think final bench set was a 4 rep PR.
will definitely run it again. But I think I'll run some hybrid style for 8 week before then.

paw patrol · 16-05-2021 5:39pm

el Fenomeno wrote: »

Anyone else here use Bulk regularly? I'm finding their stock availability has gone really, really bad. I order the same 4 products from the for a number of years now and have never had any trouble getting any of them. All of them now have various stock issues - 2 of them OOS stock completely, regardless of size or flavour. The other has only the biggest bag available and the other only has one flavour left. I spot checked a few other things I wouldn't normally buy and appears to be stock holes all over the shop.

I've used bulk for year maybe even over a decade.
In the last year they have gone to the dogs - flavours out of stock and poor delivery.

I haven't switched yet but if I found a few protein flavours I liked I'll be moving.

Mellor · 17-05-2021 3:40am

Mellor wrote: »

...But I think I'll run some hybrid style for 8 week before then.

Had a play with this hybrid. Want to bias OHP and shoulder work. Will either suprcharge my shoulders - or just my shoulder issues

Day 1
Bench 3x5,
Row 3x5,
Pull-up 3x5,
Trap Bar 3x5 (:eek: controversially merging Squat and DL in a single exercise)

Day 2
Press 3-5x5
Grip (pinching, hanging)
Kettlebell Press 3 x 6
S&S*/Cardio (alternating)

2 non lifting days - Warm-up/Shoulder prep

Mace 360 swings
Kettlebell Overhead Carry

*S&S = Simple and Sinister
10x10 KB Swings, Followed by 5x2 Turkish Get Ups. Each set on the minute.

paw patrol · 17-05-2021 11:11am

anybody recommend a good websites in similar(ish) fashion to t-nation.
I do like elitefts so I have that.

I used to like t-nation but i guess over the year the writers left to better things and I just haven't the same affinity with the current crop.
Its not them it's me. :pac:

anything weights based - bodybuilding/powerlifting/strongman type thing. bar olympic - great to look at but I'm not learning them.

Black Sheep · 17-05-2021 11:53am

Mellor wrote: »

Had a play with this hybrid. Want to bias OHP and shoulder work. Will either suprcharge my shoulders - or just my shoulder issues

Day 1
Bench 3x5,
Row 3x5,
Pull-up 3x5,
Trap Bar 3x5 (:eek: controversially merging Squat and DL in a single exercise)

Day 2
Press 3-5x5
Grip (pinching, hanging)
Kettlebell Press 3 x 6
S&S*/Cardio (alternating)

2 non lifting days - Warm-up/Shoulder prep

Mace 360 swings
Kettlebell Overhead Carry

*S&S = Simple and Sinister
10x10 KB Swings, Followed by 5x2 Turkish Get Ups. Each set on the minute.

You know you best, and I know you know how to train, but to me that’s not an overhead press focused program at all.

You don’t mention what your plan is for weight progression, whether you’re going to peak and test your press at 12 weeks or whatever, but just taking exercise selection alone:-

- Only pressing one day a week? I would do a heavy press day, depending on how you’re progressing could be a top set and back offs, or could be a rotating rep scheme, and on another day volume presses or dynamic presses - 5x5 or 10x3.

- If you have a sticking point on the press pin presses are indispensable for dealing with that, I would try and fit them in in lieu of the heavy presses at least couple of times.

- The OH carry and SS stuff is not optimal as assistance for increasing your press, although I get there’s an argument you will increase your shoulder stability. It’s not optimal for shoulder hypertrophy either. You’re pressing so little can’t say that it will fatigue you for that, but overall it is just an odd way to go about increasing your press. Even for KB pressing look at pavel’s rite of passage and the programming on that.

- If your goal is bigger shoulders not just press numbers then I would be doing high volume side delt accessory work once a week. Won’t affect your pressing and more efficient than the KB stuff for direct shoulder training.

But like I said, I know you know how to train so just my few cents.

Brian? · 17-05-2021 7:17pm

paw patrol wrote: »

anybody recommend a good websites in similar(ish) fashion to t-nation.
I do like elitefts so I have that.

I used to like t-nation but i guess over the year the writers left to better things and I just haven't the same affinity with the current crop.
Its not them it's me. :pac:

anything weights based - bodybuilding/powerlifting/strongman type thing. bar olympic - great to look at but I'm not learning them.

T nation went to pot alright. You can only give the same advice so many times though.

I buy stupid training clothes, usually llama or rainbow based

Alf Veedersane · 17-05-2021 9:12pm

Brian? wrote: »

I buy stupid training clothes, usually llama or rainbow based

Or both with a pug-based theme?

Brian? · 17-05-2021 9:49pm

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Or both with a pug-based theme?

I’ve worn the space pugs on doughnuts t shirt out. RIP

Mellor · 18-05-2021 2:38am

Black Sheep wrote: »

You know you best, and I know you know how to train, but to me that’s not an overhead press focused program at all.

You don’t mention what your plan is for weight progression, whether you’re going to peak and test your press at 12 weeks or whatever, but just taking exercise selection alone:-

- Only pressing one day a week? I would do a heavy press day, depending on how you’re progressing could be a top set and back offs, or could be a rotating rep scheme, and on another day volume presses or dynamic presses - 5x5 or 10x3.

- If you have a sticking point on the press pin presses are indispensable for dealing with that, I would try and fit them in in lieu of the heavy presses at least couple of times.

- The OH carry and SS stuff is not optimal as assistance for increasing your press, although I get there’s an argument you will increase your shoulder stability. It’s not optimal for shoulder hypertrophy either. You’re pressing so little can’t say that it will fatigue you for that, but overall it is just an odd way to go about increasing your press. Even for KB pressing look at pavel’s rite of passage and the programming on that.

- If your goal is bigger shoulders not just press numbers then I would be doing high volume side delt accessory work once a week. Won’t affect your pressing and more efficient than the KB stuff for direct shoulder training.

But like I said, I know you know how to train so just my few cents.

More than happy with the commentary. (can move to a separate thread if keep off-topic thread off topic). A few question there. I'll cover in order.

When I say press focused. I mean in relation to my overall training. If I was training for a pressing in a competition, like strongman, crossfit, whatever. Volume would be be much greater, and I'd consider a careful progression in line with peaking for comp.
But for me lifting is secondary. That's a snap shot of my lifting. With is two days out of 5-6 other training days.

Normally Press is relegated to second or even third lift being the big 3 and their assistants. Which is why I'm doing the big lifts on day 1. And having press as the first lift on its own day. Progression will be standard linear progression across the 3x5 day 1.

Press is LP also. Starting at 5x5, dropping back to 4 and 3 sets and the intensity increases. Press will be 1.25kg steps. Note: I've just finished a 3rep wave for all lifts inc Press.
KB Press will increasing reps to maybe 8 reps. Then jump a size and repeat from 4-ish back up to 8 (6 reps is the average target).

Pressing one day a week is a function of lifting two days a week. I could drop bench row for press volume or assistance. But I don't want to drop them completely.
I could lift on a third day. But again. But would mean losing something else, which I don't want to either.

Re: sticking points. I'll see whats comes out of weeks 1-4. I'm usually good once I get it off my chest from a dead stop. Obviously if Im bouncing it from chin level, it sticks higher.

Carrys and Get-Ups are primarily there for stability and overall strength. Personal I think carries off all types are hugely underrated. While this won;t increase press directly. There's a pretty strong indirect benefit. Canon, canoe, etc.
There no way somebody is carrying a 40kg KG overhead without have a solid press.

Mace is there for strength through full ROM and warm up pre jiu-jitsu.
100reps/5-10mins of continuous swings replicates that hybrid intensity of a 5-10 minute match. (and also an excuse to cut some cardio)

Couldn't care less about size. Main wants would be improved strength, stability, and rom.
Being flexible into extreme ranges is great. But ideally I need the stability and strength to move out of those ROMs against resistance.

I did consider moving KB press to Day 1, and pull ups to day 2. That ticks all the above but maybe allow one arm press to function as volume presses. I could also drop the KB weight and do a more ladder style rep scheme. I've usually avoided ad I found the overly complex. Prefering the 10x10 volume of S&S or snatch tests.

Black Sheep · 18-05-2021 9:32am

Fair enough. I do miss some of the overhead carry and Turkish get up stuff I used to do, but I just don’t have time for everything. Or maybe more accurately- the ability to recover from everything.

I think if I could split myself in two I would have one of me doing functional training with carries, kettlebell work, strongman movements, and the other one of me training like a bodybuilder.

Mellor wrote: »

More than happy with the commentary. (can move to a separate thread if keep off-topic thread off topic). A few question there. I'll cover in order.

When I say press focused. I mean in relation to my overall training. If I was training for a pressing in a competition, like strongman, crossfit, whatever. Volume would be be much greater, and I'd consider a careful progression in line with peaking for comp.
But for me lifting is secondary. That's a snap shot of my lifting. With is two days out of 5-6 other training days.

Normally Press is relegated to second or even third lift being the big 3 and their assistants. Which is why I'm doing the big lifts on day 1. And having press as the first lift on its own day. Progression will be standard linear progression across the 3x5 day 1.

Press is LP also. Starting at 5x5, dropping back to 4 and 3 sets and the intensity increases. Press will be 1.25kg steps. Note: I've just finished a 3rep wave for all lifts inc Press.
KB Press will increasing reps to maybe 8 reps. Then jump a size and repeat from 4-ish back up to 8 (6 reps is the average target).

Pressing one day a week is a function of lifting two days a week. I could drop bench row for press volume or assistance. But I don't want to drop them completely.
I could lift on a third day. But again. But would mean losing something else, which I don't want to either.

Re: sticking points. I'll see whats comes out of weeks 1-4. I'm usually good once I get it off my chest from a dead stop. Obviously if Im bouncing it from chin level, it sticks higher.

Carrys and Get-Ups are primarily there for stability and overall strength. Personal I think carries off all types are hugely underrated. While this won;t increase press directly. There's a pretty strong indirect benefit. Canon, canoe, etc.
There no way somebody is carrying a 40kg KG overhead without have a solid press.

Mace is there for strength through full ROM and warm up pre jiu-jitsu.
100reps/5-10mins of continuous swings replicates that hybrid intensity of a 5-10 minute match. (and also an excuse to cut some cardio)

Couldn't care less about size. Main wants would be improved strength, stability, and rom.
Being flexible into extreme ranges is great. But ideally I need the stability and strength to move out of those ROMs against resistance.

I did consider moving KB press to Day 1, and pull ups to day 2. That ticks all the above but maybe allow one arm press to function as volume presses. I could also drop the KB weight and do a more ladder style rep scheme. I've usually avoided ad I found the overly complex. Prefering the 10x10 volume of S&S or snatch tests.

Mellor · 18-05-2021 2:43pm

Black Sheep wrote: »

Fair enough. I do miss some of the overhead carry and Turkish get up stuff I used to do, but I just don’t have time for everything. Or maybe more accurately- the ability to recover from everything.

I think if I could split myself in two I would have one of me doing functional training with carries, kettlebell work, strongman movements, and the other one of me training like a bodybuilder.

One of the reasons I'm a fan of Turkish Get Up is that it's basically a technical get up with a weight. I feel like it's the closest lift to combining jiu jitsu and weights.

If I had two of me and access to whatever I wat. One would me doing functional type stuff, carries, strongman. Be able to use a 40kg KB. The other one would just be doing full time jiu jitsu.
So the training above is the abridged version of that.

Alf Veedersane · 19-05-2021 2:34pm

If you're a member of Raw, they have a new class to sign up to:

There was a clip on Instgram but I was on a work phone so bypassed it...

Patsy167 · 19-05-2021 2:46pm

Might be handy for anyone who's a fan of Fulfil bars and spends a small fortune on them. Two of the best flavors too.

Fulfil Chocolate Salted Caramel / Chocolate Hazelnut Whip Bars 5x55g Range - WAS €13 - NOW €6.50 EACH

https://www.dunnesstores.com/c/fresh-food/grocery/in-store-offers

Alf Veedersane · 22-05-2021 4:59pm

Patsy167 wrote: »

What are peoples thoughts on this recent news story - Weightlifter Laurel Hubbard has taken a step closer to becoming the first transgender athlete to compete at an Olympics after qualification rules were changed because of Covid-19.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/weightlifting/57013419

Fair game or unfair advantage?

If anyone is interested, the Real Science of Sport had a podcast on this that's interesting if you want to get into the arguments on it

The Jimbo Slice memorial thread, feat Nate Dogg - The new Off Topic thread

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