Opt-Out Organ Donation

ohnonotgmail · 03-01-2017 3:46pm

freedominacup wrote: »

I meant that the transplant process is expensive and can be particularly difficult where both parents are working where you are talking about young children. We had a good fundraiser locally here around 12 months ago. 35k raised just to cover income loss and travel for parents of a little girl needing a multi organ transplant. Her dad was on the points of giving some/part of his own organs to keep her going a few months ago but a donor came up at last minute. As I said people need to grow up. Opt out only and extremely difficult, time consuming and expensive to get it is the only way.

You think people should have to pay to opt out? They should pay to keep themselves intact after death? I'm all for organ donation but this kind of attitude is just going to turn people against it.

weldoninhio · 03-01-2017 3:52pm

freedominacup wrote: »

I meant that the transplant process is expensive and can be particularly difficult where both parents are working where you are talking about young children. We had a good fundraiser locally here around 12 months ago. 35k raised just to cover income loss and travel for parents of a little girl needing a multi organ transplant. Her dad was on the points of giving some/part of his own organs to keep her going a few months ago but a donor came up at last minute. As I said people need to grow up. Opt out only and extremely difficult, time consuming and expensive to get it is the only way.

Absolute nonsense. It should be a choice. No one should be forced to give up any part of their body before or after death.

I won't be donating any of my organs when I die.

carrieb · 03-01-2017 3:59pm

I really don't understand why anybody would not donate. I am very very pro donating and my parents and partner know this. I carry a card too. I think that a family member blocking a donation is absolutely disgusting. I would be all for a strong, not soft, opt out.

RobertKK · 03-01-2017 4:05pm

It is all going to be irrelevant in the next 20 years or so when we can get new bits using our own DNA to grow organs or bone in the lab.

Though they don't seem to be too far off.
http://www.popsci.com/scientists-grow-transplantable-hearts-with-stem-cells

Parchment · 03-01-2017 4:05pm

I cannot comprehend not being ok with being an organ donor. You're dead - give someone else a chance at life.

end of the road · 03-01-2017 6:19pm

Vic_08 wrote: »

I'd go further and disqualify people that opt out from receiving donated organs.

so, people should be left to die for not making the "right choice" . i wonder what type of person that reminds me of. oh yes.

freedominacup wrote: »

People need to grow up. Rich/poor doesn't come into it. It does make a difference to recipients.

"people" don't need to "grow up" . the proposal of having the opt out as an expensive undertaking = a 2 tier system where only those who can afford to opt out can and everyone else doesn't get a choice. not only is that ridiculous but actually it's undemocratic, and any attempt to introduce such nonsense would have to be stamped out hard, using all means necessary. freedom of choice is absolute.

osarusan · 03-01-2017 6:23pm

It should be opt out, but opting out should be easy enough.

Family (even immediate family) should have no say in it though (in the case of adults at least).

sillysmiles · 03-01-2017 6:28pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

Absolute nonsense. It should be a choice. No one should be forced to give up any part of their body before or after death.

I won't be donating any of my organs when I die.

I don't think I've spoken to anyone who is stauchly anti-donation. While that is your right, but you mind elaborating on why you feel that way.

Anita Blow · 03-01-2017 6:49pm

The evidence shows that an opt-out system doesn't drastically improve organ donation rates. The rate-limiting step in organ donation is organ donation infrastructure, which is how Spain came to be one of the best countries in the world for organ donation. I do favour a soft opt-out option but it should be accompanied by investment in transplant coordinators and means of transporting the organs in a timely fashion. Going from having 50 potential donors in a hospital to 200 means feck all if they can't be identified ahead of time, the family counselled regarding organ donation and the physical infrastructure being in place to get the organs to the recipients.
Of course that requires investment so the government will be happy to just switch to an opt-out system to give the illusion they're doing something while in fact spending no money

bnt · 03-01-2017 9:01pm

I'm a bit confused by the above post, which says that opt-out doesn't drastically improve organ donation rates, then goes on to say that there would need to be significant improvements in organ donation infrastructure to cope with the ... drastic increase in organ donations?

Yes, opt-out on its own, without other improvements to the system, would be problematic. If you read the OP again you can take that as read. And as for the evidence that opt-out does improve rates, a 2009 New York Times article on the topic cited the differences between Germany (opt-in, 12% consent) and Austria (opt-out, 99%). Or I could cite a 2003 study that shows drastic increases in rates between opt-in and opt-out countries.

I do get the objections to the idea of "the government taking bits of your body without consent", but it's a difficult topic. I think more people would give consent if they had a free and frank discussion of the topic well in advance. But the problem is that they aren't doing that, and instead leaviing the decision to bereaved next-of-kin at the worst possible time to be thinking about such things.

Capt'n Midnight · 03-01-2017 9:22pm

There's a tick box to donate when getting or renewing your driving licence.

Just change the default to Opt-In.

Would capture most potential organ donors at near zero cost, and of course you could opt-out any time.

No point in putting stuff in your will as organs won't last to the reading.

osarusan · 03-01-2017 9:28pm

bnt wrote: »

I'm a bit confused by the above post, which says that opt-out doesn't drastically improve organ donation rates, then goes on to say that there would need to be significant improvements in organ donation infrastructure to cope with the ... drastic increase in organ donations?

Yes, opt-out on its own, without other improvements to the system, would be problematic. If you read the OP again you can take that as read. And as for the evidence that opt-out does improve rates, a 2009 New York Times article on the topic cited the differences between Germany (opt-in, 12% consent) and Austria (opt-out, 99%). Or I could cite a 2003 study that shows drastic increases in rates between opt-in and opt-out countries.

I think the point was that our weakness in organ transplants is not down to a lack of donors, but rather a lack of infrastructure in place to maximise success of use of organs.

So, even if an opt-out system saw a significant increase in organs available, without the infrastructure being improved, there's no guarantee that transplant success would improve. It just means that there are more donors that are not being availed of.

I think that was the point anyway.

weldoninhio · 03-01-2017 10:43pm

sillysmiles wrote: »

I don't think I've spoken to anyone who is stauchly anti-donation. While that is your right, but you mind elaborating on why you feel that way.

I'm not anti-donation, I just don't want to give up mine. I'd rather stay while when I'm dead that be harvested. I'm not religious or anything like that, it's just a personal feeling.

osarusan · 03-01-2017 10:54pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

I'm not anti-donation, I just don't want to give up mine. I'd rather stay while when I'm dead that be harvested. I'm not religious or anything like that, it's just a personal feeling.

See, I have no problem with this at all - I can understand why people feel this way, and it's why I don't think that opting out should be made deliberately difficult/time-consuming.

If somebody feels like that and wants to opt out, so be it.

But if they themselves don't make the decision to opt out, I don't think their family should be able to make it for them.

Capt'n Midnight · 03-01-2017 11:08pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

I'm not anti-donation, I just don't want to give up mine.

You selfish bastard :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aclS1pGHp8o

mags1962 · 04-01-2017 12:00am

First of all people need to understand the process as I think that most people believe that when they pass that there will be a scramble to "harvest" all the bits that can be transplanted and that they will go to the highest bidder.
Donors need to be alive or the organs are not viable for transplant if there is no blood pumping through the body and they are no longer functioning.
Transplants are based on need, not money, and weather or not the transplant will be a success and the recipient will have a good chance of a relatively normal life.
I have a huge interest in this subject having received a life saving organ transplant and find it hard to understand peoples refusal to consider the option to save numerous other peoples life at a time when their passing could actually mean something wonderful for others.
The actual number of people that qualify as donors of major organs, Heart, Liver, Lungs etc, the ones that you can't live without, is really not that many every year and I think that the record number for deceased donors was something like 91, not that many when you consider the amount of people that die every year.

maudgonner · 04-01-2017 12:31am

By the way, for anyone on here who wants to be an organ donor (and even those who don't), if you haven't already put yourself on the bone marrow donor register that might be something you could also consider - you don't need to be dead to donate

It's a very easy process to get on the register (details are on the giveblood.ie site). The chances are tiny that you will ever match someone in need, but if you do you could save a life.

Calhoun · 04-01-2017 12:43am

Not a chance I would agree with anything like this, there are few things in life you truly own and your body is one of them. Not to mention on top of that Ireland being Ireland the rules would want to be razor tight less you be thrown under the bus for the 'greater good'.

Be also interesting to see how this would stand up for people in vegative states, from what I understand they are researching folk being locked in rather than lights being on no no on home.

Finally I would say I'm not anti donation but would like eduction to work with people to get the message across rather than what I have seen in the past name calling,attempting to shame and looking down on people.

mickstupp · 04-01-2017 1:08am

I find it kinda disgusting that my family would have any say to go against my wishes regarding donation of my organs. My donor card basically means nothing if one of them decides otherwise.

I hate the idea that their wishes might supercede mine when it comes to my organs getting donated. I don't agree that they should have any say in the matter. I don't agree that their feelings should be taken into consideration, as they already know my wishes, whether or not they agree. My body, my organs, not theirs.

I am fully, 100% in favour of opt-out only.

And to be honest, I can't understand how anyone would be fine with the remote possibility for their family to override their wishes.

KERSPLAT! · 04-01-2017 1:35am

the_pen_turner wrote: »

A relative of mine needed a new kidney. He went on the list and all that.
They were at some group meeting or I formation night or some such on the ins and outs of it. (Pardon the pun)
The person there hand d out leaflets on donation and signing up.

My mother was down at the house a few days later to see how he was. Got talking about the sheet on donating.
Turns out all 5 of his family refused to sign into be doners. Because the didn't like the idea of it. All the while having g their son and brother dying while waiting g for a kidney

He got it in the end

It's not as black and white as that. I know from experience.

I had someone waiting for a kidney transplant and from a pool of about 7-8 that could have put themselves forward, only 2 of us did. Turns out we weren't suitable candidates but that's another story.

Anyway, the reasons put forward were that some day they may in fact need their second kindey if one of theirs fails. Then there's the fact that their son/daughter may also someday need one and the risks involved in the whole thing.

With regards to kidneys, it's highly unlikely you'll die when waiting for a kidney. You can survive for years and years on dialysis, however difficult it may be.

On organ donation, I believe we should have an opt out system but as others pointed out, next of kin have the final say.

I certainly want my bits put to good use and I'm forever grateful to the poor woman and her family who made my family members life infinitely better through organ donation. It's horrible to think that some people have to wait for someone to die in order for them to live.

Sound Bite · 04-01-2017 2:00am

I always try to see things from the opposite side of my own view point but this is one where I absolutely struggle.

I have not heard any logical rationale reason not to donate your organs when you are dead. It's not like you are going to need them and it gives someone else the opportunity to have a better quality of life than they would have otherwise.

I would also consider it highly selfish and hypocritical to think that I could receive an organ,if I was ever in the position to need one, unless I was prepared to donate mine when the times comes.

It also irks me that despite the fact I have an organ donor card and it marked on my drivers license for several years, the decision still rests with my next of kin. Something seriously wrong with that. I've told family I will haunt them to their dying days (not sure it's possible!) if they don't respect my wishes.

ohnonotgmail · 04-01-2017 10:10am

Just continuing on from the post above do they still include it with the drivers licence? I dont remember being asked about it when i renewed last year and i dont see anything for it on the new plastic licences.

jacksie66 · 04-01-2017 10:14am

This post has been deleted.

the groutch · 04-01-2017 10:23am

mickstupp wrote: »

I find it kinda disgusting that my family would have any say to go against my wishes regarding donation of my organs. My donor card basically means nothing if one of them decides otherwise.

I hate the idea that their wishes might supercede mine when it comes to my organs getting donated. I don't agree that they should have any say in the matter. I don't agree that their feelings should be taken into consideration, as they already know my wishes, whether or not they agree. My body, my organs, not theirs.

I am fully, 100% in favour of opt-out only.

And to be honest, I can't understand how anyone would be fine with the remote possibility for their family to override their wishes.

Is that not somewhat contradictory, that you want the decision to lie fully in your hands, but at the same time support the introduction of a system that will try to make the decision for an individual?

seamus · 04-01-2017 11:22am

bnt wrote: »

I'm a bit confused by the above post, which says that opt-out doesn't drastically improve organ donation rates, then goes on to say that there would need to be significant improvements in organ donation infrastructure to cope with the ... drastic increase in organ donations?

The drastic increase in availability of organs.

Even if every person on the verge of death is ripe for donation, it's fairly meaningless if you don't have the procedures, equipment and transport fully nailed down and ready to go.

Rather than hearing about how we need more donors, we'd be hearing about how many perfectly good donors are being buried without donating anything.

Alun · 04-01-2017 11:27am

Sound Bite wrote: »

It also irks me that despite the fact I have an organ donor card and it marked on my drivers license for several years, the decision still rests with my next of kin. Something seriously wrong with that. I've told family I will haunt them to their dying days (not sure it's possible!) if they don't respect my wishes.

Me too, I've made it very, very clear to all my relatives what my wishes are, not that their opinions were any different to mine as it happens. In fact, thinking about it, I've never actually met anyone in real-life who objects to donating their organs, only on forums like these.

mickstupp · 04-01-2017 11:44am

the groutch wrote: »

Is that not somewhat contradictory, that you want the decision to lie fully in your hands, but at the same time support the introduction of a system that will try to make the decision for an individual?

No, not even a little bit. Because you can decide to opt-out. No-one's removing that decision from you, or even trying to. Whereas at the moment someone *can* take the decision away from me after I die.

If a person doesn't want to donate, fine, say so, opt-out. But if they do want to donate, how can it be a good thing that someone can override those wishes? It makes having a donor card pointless.

I guess my problem isn't with donating or not donating, it's with how currently your decision to donate can be thrown out the window without your permission. In a proper opt-out system, your decision stands either way.

andekwarhola · 04-01-2017 1:31pm

Each to their own but I find it utterly bizarre that people would feel so strongly about their organs being used to save other lives when, with or without the organs, you're going to be decomposing in the ground or a pile of ashes anyway.

Sound Bite · 04-01-2017 1:40pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Just continuing on from the post above do they still include it with the drivers licence? I dont remember being asked about it when i renewed last year and i dont see anything for it on the new plastic licences.

It's on page 2 of the application form - organ donation section - it is listed on your license as code 115.

ohnonotgmail · 04-01-2017 1:46pm

Sound Bite wrote: »

It's on page 2 of the application form - organ donation section - it is listed on your license as code 115.

I dont remember filling that in but i must have because i have that code on my licence. cheers.

Opt-Out Organ Donation

Comments