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If the Green Party got into government are they mad

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12357…20

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    #122
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    Nobelium wrote: »
    Bollocks. The green party had their chance 2007-2011 and instead screwed generations of Irish people to pay for their cronie capitalism. They supported and defended, and propped up FF and the banksters corruption to the hilt. The same green party that got us all driving diesel cars to support their cronies in the SIMI and the Germans.

    Oh you think 3 years in power AFTER all the shoddy houss were built in the middle of nowhere should have been enough to turn it around? Right, gotcha.

    You're talking nonsense about the diesel issue too. At the time, the knowledge was that diesel cars were lower carbon. It has since been shown that the car companies were lying through their teeth. But go ahead and blame the Greens for evidence - based policy making.

    This country is an absolute shambles compared to other countries in terms of planning, housing stock, public transport etc. But yeah, you can keep grumbling about lightbulbs for the two extra hours you spend commuting every day, breathing in toxic fumes, heading home to your poorly insulated house that costs a fortune to keep warm.

    Glad you got your priorities right.


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    #123
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    A few years ago people where told the car would never replace the horse....like your statement that is history

    https://www.mainstreamrp.com/

    Maybe have a read

    straw manning as usual. I've no doubt cronie capitalism will force most of the western world to switch to electric cars, but they will still be largely powered by fossil fuel / nuclear. It's about which corporations control energy, and in reality, they don't give a shyte about the environment.


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    #124
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Macha wrote: »
    Oh you think 3 years in power AFTER all the shoddy houss were built in the middle of nowhere should have been enough to turn it around? Right, gotcha.

    You're talking nonsense about the diesel issue too. At the time, the knowledge was that diesel cars were lower carbon. It has since been shown that the car companies were lying through their teeth. But go ahead and blame the Greens for evidence - based policy making.

    This country is an absolute shambles compared to other countries in terms of planning, housing stock, public transport etc. But yeah, you can keep grumbling about lightbulbs for the two extra hours you spend commuting every day, breathing in toxic fumes, heading home to your poorly insulated house that costs a fortune to keep warm.

    Glad you got your priorities right.

    The green party are proven liars, and had their chance


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    #125
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    Nobelium wrote: »
    The green party are proven liars, and had their chance
    I think the phrase cutting off your nose to spite your face was coined for exactly this kind of attitude.

    Also, maybe try actually answering one of my points. Your doing the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting at me.


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    #126
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Nobelium wrote: »
    straw manning as usual. I've no doubt cronie capitalism will force most of the western world to switch to electric cars, but they will still be largely powered by fossil fuel / nuclear. It's about which corporations control energy, and in reality, they don't give a shyte about the environment.

    You have yet to post a single fact or anything to backup your posts

    Standard rant posts....point the finger at everyone else, it’s their fault etc


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    #127
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    You have yet to post a single fact or anything to backup your posts

    Standard rant posts....point the finger at everyone else, it’s their fault etc

    No. 1 Fact - renewable energy will only be powering a fraction of all the electric cars when the majority of people switch over to them.

    No. 2 Fact - the green party consisted of, supported, propped up, and defended one of the most corrupt Irish governments ever seen. A government that ruined thousands of lives, and forced thousands of young people to emigrate, and forced those that remained, and their future generations to pay off their fraudulent banking and cronie capitalism debts.

    No. 3 Fact - the green party are only interested in carbon taxing those working people in Ireland who can lease afford it. No mention of going after the worst polluters, the rich and their corporations, nor holding anyone else to account.


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    #128
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    Nobelium wrote: »
    No. 1 Fact - renewable energy will only be powering a fraction of all the electric cars when the majority of people switch over to them.
    Incorrect. We have a target for renewables to make up almost half of our electrity supply by 2030. Moreover, any improvements in power generation are automatically populated through the electric vehicle fleet. Compare that to a standard combustion engine fleet that takes 10-20 years to replace with improved designs.
    No. 3 Fact - the green party are only interested in carbon taxing those working people in Ireland who can lease afford it. No mention of going after the worst polluters, the rich and their corporations, nor holding anyone else to account.
    Utter nonsense. Where are you getting this stuff from?


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    #129
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,192 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Nobelium wrote: »
    No. 1 Fact - renewable energy will only be powering a fraction of all the electric cars when the majority of people switch over to them.

    No. 2 Fact - the green party consisted of, supported, propped up, and defended one of the most corrupt Irish governments ever seen. A government that ruined thousands of lives, and forced thousands of young people to emigrate, and forced those that remained, and their future generations to pay off their fraudulent banking and cronie capitalism debts.

    No. 3 Fact - the green party are only interested in carbon taxing those working people in Ireland who can lease afford it. No mention of going after the worst polluters, the rich and their corporations, nor holding anyone else to account.

    None of those are facts, they are opinions.

    In relation to the first one, improvements in battery storage for home generation will change the equation.


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    #130
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Macha wrote: »
    Incorrect. We have a target for renewables to make up almost half of our electrity supply by 2030. Moreover, any improvements in power generation are automatically populated through the electric vehicle fleet. Compare that to a standard combustion engine fleet that takes 10-20 years to replace with improved designs.

    So in other words, even the TARGET figure acknowledges knows the majority of power will not be from renewables. lol
    Macha wrote: »
    Utter nonsense. Where are you getting this stuff from?

    All we ever hear is your plans for carbon taxing ordinary working people, tell us what punitive measures they plan for the rich and their mega corporations ?


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    #131
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    blanch152 wrote: »
    None of those are facts, they are opinions.

    In relation to the first one, improvements in battery storage for home generation will change the equation.

    Are batteries not dc current?and homes powered by ac current???



    Maybe tech has changed,but was under impression ac current cant be stored?


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    #132
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Nobelium wrote: »
    No. 1 Fact - renewable energy will only be powering a fraction of all the electric cars when the majority of people switch over to them.

    No. 2 Fact - the green party consisted of, supported, propped up, and defended one of the most corrupt Irish governments ever seen. A government that ruined thousands of lives, and forced thousands of young people to emigrate, and forced those that remained, and their future generations to pay off their fraudulent banking and cronie capitalism debts.

    No. 3 Fact - the green party are only interested in carbon taxing those working people in Ireland who can lease afford it. No mention of going after the worst polluters, the rich and their corporations, nor holding anyone else to account.

    Rant 1-3

    Not a single fact. All incorrect pub talk as well


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    #133
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    _blaaz wrote: »
    Are batteries not dc current?and homes powered by ac current???

    You can power electric cars via AC connection at home

    Or DC fast chargers, fast chargers are the ones dotted around Ireland....

    Any plug can charge a car, slowly but they can...most people install a charge point st house and charge from that....


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    #134
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Rant 1-3

    Not a single fact. All incorrect pub talk as well

    and yet you haven't been able to contradict them with a single fact


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    #135
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    You can power electric cars via AC connection at home

    Or DC fast chargers, fast chargers are the ones dotted around Ireland....

    Any plug can charge a car, slowly but they can...most people install a charge point st house and charge from that....

    This is due to rectification....which changes ac to dc currents (also wastes 50% of current produced afaik??)


    Im.questioning the idea the proposal.that battery storage is going to be a game changer,when there isnt use for large.scale.storage??


    Maybe the tech has changed....i just dont understand how you can get an ac current from.an stationary object such as a battery




    In reality to say carbon and the planet,large scale comversion to veganism or vegitarianism or a minimum massive reduction in meat consumption would be quicker more effevtive long term solution


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    #136
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    Nobelium wrote: »
    So in other words, even the TARGET figure acknowledges knows the majority of power will not be from renewables. lol
    You just said a fraction. I correct that to almost half and you're still not happy. You've no credibility if you debate like that.
    All we ever hear is your plans for carbon taxing ordinary working people, tell us what punitive measures they plan for the rich and their mega corporations ?
    The media is obsessed with carbon taxes because they're controversial. Do you know what are the biggest companies in the world? Fossil fuel companies. By taking Ireland off fossil fuels, they're going to be seriously damaging the profits of those companies.

    But you're asking entirely the wrong question. What we should be talking about is how do we facilitate the investments in the housing stock, all other buildings, public transport, renewable heat and power, shifting our agricultural model and ramping up reforestation big time.


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    #137
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Thatcher and Bush Senior were strong proponents of urgent change to stop the ozone layer disappearing. Something bad has happened to conservative politics since their time.


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    #138
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    Gabriella Tangy Universe wrote: »
    Thatcher and Bush senior were strong proponents of urgent change to stop the ozone layer disappearing. Something bad has happened to conservative politics since their time.
    Nixon set up the EPA of your can believe it.

    I can never understand how protecting the planet we all live on and depend on became a partisan issue.


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    #139
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Macha wrote: »
    You just said a fraction. I correct that to almost half and you're still not happy. You've no credibility if you debate like that.

    So what is the actual percentage , is even 49/50 at best not a fraction ? and not a minority ? Tell the truth.
    Macha wrote: »
    The media is obsessed with carbon taxes because they're controversial. Do you know what are the biggest companies in the world? Fossil fuel companies. By taking Ireland off fossil fuels, they're going to be seriously damaging the profits of those companies.

    But you're asking entirely the wrong question. What we should be talking about is how do we facilitate the investments in the housing stock, all other buildings, public transport, renewable heat and power, shifting our agricultural model and ramping up reforestation big time.

    I'll ask you again . . other than carbon taxing ordinary people who can least afford to pay, and least afford the alternatives . . what are they going to do with the rich and large corporations ?


  • Options
    #140
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    Nobelium wrote: »
    So what is the actual percentage , is even 49/50 at best not a fraction ? and not a minority ? Tell the truth.
    99/100 is technically a fraction but we both know you were using it to mean a small share. Half is not a small share. Stop flogging this dead horse and acknowledge that evs will be significantly powered by renewables in Ireland.
    I'll ask you again, what other than carbon taxing ordinary people to death, what are they going to do with the rich and large corporations ?
    Go look up the biggest companies in the world and come back to me.


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    #141
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Macha wrote: »
    99/100 is technically a fraction but we both know you were using it to mean a small share. Half is not a small share. Stop flogging this dead horse and acknowledge that evs will be significantly powered by renewables in Ireland.

    So by your own admission, at best , if all targets are met, less than half of electric cars will be powered by non fossil fueled power plants.
    Macha wrote: »
    Go look up the biggest companies in the world and come back to me.

    Come back and tell me how much your going to carbon tax them instead of ordinary working people who can least afford any alternatives.


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    #142
    the-island-man
    Registered Users Posts: 488 ✭✭the-island-man


    There's a lot that can be done if there were a willingness:
    - Referendum to exclude public transport infrastructure and procurement from ordinary planning and procurement guidelines.
    - Law to for agricultural land holdings to have a minimum % of tree cover
    - Law to force companies to accept working from home for office workers if worker lives greater than X miles or commutes greater than X minutes to work (relies on NBP)
    - Invest in spirit of Ireland initiative.
    - Every national road upgrade requires an adjacent and separated cycle path to be included.


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    #143
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Domestic central heating is a huge contributor, much greater than transport emissions typically. Build large apartment blocks with modern heating systems and no fireplaces. This is what social housing should be.


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    #144
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,485 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    What did the Government do with the money generated by the last carbon tax and also the plastic bag tax?
    Keep it is my guess.


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    #145
    TheRiverman
    Registered Users Posts: 6,056 ✭✭✭TheRiverman


    the-island-man wrote: »
    There's a lot that can be done if there were a willingness:
    - Referendum to exclude public transport infrastructure and procurement from ordinary planning and procurement guidelines.
    - Law to for agricultural land holdings to have a minimum % of tree cover
    - Law to force companies to accept working from home for office workers if worker lives greater than X miles or commutes greater than X minutes to work (relies on NBP)
    - Invest in spirit of Ireland initiative.
    - Every national road upgrade requires an adjacent and separated cycle path to be included.

    Working from home is "cart before the horse" if the disastrous National Broadband Plan is not sorted.


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    #146
    TheRiverman
    Registered Users Posts: 6,056 ✭✭✭TheRiverman


    Gabriella Tangy Universe wrote: »
    Domestic central heating is a huge contributor, much greater than transport emissions typically. Build large apartment blocks with modern heating systems and no fireplaces. This is what social housing should be.

    What about the thousands of people living in rural Ireland ?.There is no alternative,if I want to stop using solid fuel and oil central heating right now there is nothing,except maybe very expensive Solar Panel systems or very expensive geothermal heating systems which I or thousands of others cannot afford.


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    #147
    kanuseeme
    Registered Users Posts: 1,891 ✭✭✭kanuseeme


    TheRiverman wrote: »
    What about the thousands of people living in rural Ireland ?.There is no alternative,if I want to stop using solid fuel and oil central heating right now there is nothing,except maybe very expensive Solar Panel systems or very expensive geothermal heating systems which I or thousands of others cannot afford.

    I think the answer would be a very expensive retrofit with insulation,( windows doors also), then you would require less heat to keep your house warm.

    I cannot afford that and thousands of others.


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    #148
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    TheRiverman wrote: »
    What about the thousands of people living in rural Ireland ?.There is no alternative,if I want to stop using solid fuel and oil central heating right now there is nothing,except maybe very expensive Solar Panel systems or very expensive geothermal heating systems which I or thousands of others cannot afford.
    Bio lpg or wood pellets and a modern condensing boiler.

    High efficiency wood burning stove with dry wood only, or just block up the fireplace. We are doing the latter.

    Solar panels aren’t that expensive and pay for themselves.

    Retrofitting an old house for a heat pump is indeed prohibitively expensive, but there are lots of more affordable options that are better than oil and a fireplace. I’m in rural Ireland myself.

    Double layer of rock wool insulation in attic.

    High polluting low efficiency social housing needs to be replaced with low emission high efficiency modern units leveraging economy of scale.


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    #149
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Animal farming should be taxed to fund increased incentives to convert agricultural land to forest


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    #150
    kanuseeme
    Registered Users Posts: 1,891 ✭✭✭kanuseeme


    Gabriella Tangy Universe wrote: »

    High polluting low efficiency social housing needs to be replaced with low emission high efficiency modern units leveraging economy of scale.

    I have doubts about bio LPG, and dry wood needs to be dried, i.e. requiring heat/ energy.

    What really bothers me is the modern units, the best would have a centralised heating system and multiples of units, more akin to a apartment block, and I do not want my family in one, when a member of a wandering ethic group living upstairs has a funeral or a wedding


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    #151
    the-island-man
    Registered Users Posts: 488 ✭✭the-island-man


    TheRiverman wrote: »
    Working from home is "cart before the horse" if the disastrous National Broadband Plan is not sorted.

    That's why I put relies on NBP in brackets. Still even with the way it is at the moment there is a significant part of the rural commuter belts getting fiber power broadband with EIR. Some of these people could be taken off the road.


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