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Porn Superstar James Deen Accused Of "Rape" On Twitter Faces Ruin. Is This Fair?

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24

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    #32
    the evasion_kid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭the evasion_kid


    c_man wrote: »
    Serious lol at this.

    http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4215113

    I do seem to remember a reddit AMA with an anonymous female pornstar (though it was obvious her identity) who claimed that deens wholesome image was just a front.


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    #33
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Delirium wrote: »
    That didn't last long.


    It's like you didn't even read the rest of my post?

    I'm not inclined to take allegations of this magnitude or nature made on social media seriously. That doesn't mean I don't take a person who was raped seriously. It just means that I'm not inclined to take allegations of rape seriously when the word is thrown about so flippantly on social media and in the porn industry (I wouldn't presume immediately that you'd be aware of rape fantasy pornography, it's a niche market tbf).

    The point is, all these are, is allegations against a person. They're all involved in the porn industry where accusations like this are all too common. The only difference here is that there seems to be a whole lot of other agendas going on.

    I can either choose to get worked up about nothing, or I can suggest that perhaps they should make a report to the authorities, which is something I would advise anyone to do, rather than make allegations against anyone on social media. That's unlikely to see that justice is done for anyone involved.


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    #34
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,719 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    It's like you didn't even read the rest of my post?

    I'm not inclined to take allegations of this magnitude or nature made on social media seriously. That doesn't mean I don't take a person who was raped seriously. It just means that I'm not inclined to take allegations of rape seriously when the word is thrown about so flippantly on social media and in the porn industry (I wouldn't presume immediately that you'd be aware of rape fantasy pornography, it's a niche market tbf).

    The point is, all these are, is allegations against a person. They're all involved in the porn industry where accusations like this are all too common. The only difference here is that there seems to be a whole lot of other agendas going on.

    I can either choose to get worked up about nothing, or I can suggest that perhaps they should make a report to the authorities, which is something I would advise anyone to do, rather than make allegations against anyone on social media. That's unlikely to see that justice is done for anyone involved.

    Suggesting that the women are engaging in a PR stunt is taking neither the allegations of rape or them seriously.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #35
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Delirium wrote: »
    Suggesting that the women are engaging in a PR stunt is taking neither the allegations of rape or them seriously.


    Yes, that's my point, in a nutshell. What was yours?

    Are you suggesting that I should take these sorts of allegations by anyone, on social media, seriously, without question, as though they are actually true?

    I would hope not, because that won't actually happen without any record of a complaint to the proper authorities.


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    #36
    smoking_kills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 488 ✭✭smoking_kills


    Delirium wrote: »
    Suggesting that the women are engaging in a PR stunt is taking neither the allegations of rape or them seriously.

    "I was raped, quick to the Twitter"

    But yeah, we are not taking it seriously......


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    #37
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,719 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Yes, that's my point, in a nutshell. What was yours?

    Are you suggesting that I should take these sorts of allegations by anyone, on social media, seriously, without question, as though they are actually true?

    I would hope not, because that won't actually happen without any record of a complaint to the proper authorities.

    You said that because they were porn stars it's probably a PR stunt.

    Not saying you have to take the claims seriously but you don't have to post stupid stuff like that either.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #38
    Squiggle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭Squiggle


    keano_afc wrote: »
    There are no repercussions for false allegations. Obviously not saying those women are liars, but even if nothing is proven there's no fear they will receive any sort of punishment.

    Leonard Watters/Louis Walsh.


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    #39
    RGDATA!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭RGDATA!


    keano_afc wrote: »
    There are no repercussions for false allegations. Obviously not saying those women are liars, but even if nothing is proven there's no fear they will receive any sort of punishment.

    says who?


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    #40
    Gyalist
    Registered Users Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭Gyalist


    I don't have a dog in this rather unseemly and sordid affair but I can't help but notice that the "accused" man's real name was used in the OP while his "accusers" hide behind pseudonyms.


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    #41
    MilesMorales1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,431 ✭✭✭MilesMorales1


    What is it with people on boards and the weird hatred/dismissal of women? Its a bit weird guys.


    Having read a bit more on this, this isn't the first time someone has said it, and this girl isn't alone. I'm not saying he's guilty cos thats not how justice works, but its certainly worth looking into, and attitudes like some of the ones in this thread are sickening.


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    #42
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Delirium wrote: »
    You said that because they were porn stars it's probably a PR stunt.

    Not saying you have to take the claims seriously but you don't have to post stupid stuff like that either.


    Ah, right. Yeah I don't see what's stupid about that tbh. Given the industry they're working in, allegations like this are quite common, and the fact is that because they treat the issue of rape so trivially, by making allegations of this nature on social media, and considering the industry they work in, there's nothing stupid IMO about suggesting this is nothing more than a stupid publicity stunt.

    If they had made a report to the authorities, I might be inclined to take their allegations seriously, but as it stands? Not particularly.

    From what I read of the story last night already, the allegations were shown to be false, but the women maintain that their point was that anyone who makes an allegation of rape against someone should automatically be believed. To me that sounded like backtracking. Their efforts don't do anyone who has been raped, any favours, because they are promoting a recent trend where people are able to exaggerate the perception that false allegations are actually that common, when really, they aren't.

    That's why I detest the idea of anyone making these sorts of allegations against a person on social media, and that's why I considered the industry they're working in that all they seem to want to do is make a name for themselves at someone else's expense, and at the expense of people who have been raped but are too afraid to make a report to the authorities.

    If you want to ignore context, by all means, as is yours and anyone else's right. I simply choose to question the motives of the people making the allegations in this case, not only in the context of their chosen careers, but also in the context of the way in which they made these allegations.


    Tee-shirt wearing scientist, Tim Hunt, etc, it's not beyond the bounds of possibly that these women are simply lying to further their own careers. I'm simply unwilling to believe anything actually happened without so much as a shred of evidence in this particular case.


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    #43
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    MilesMorales1 wrote: »
    but its certainly worth looking into

    It's only worth looking into if they actually report this to the police.


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    #44
    MilesMorales1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,431 ✭✭✭MilesMorales1


    c_man wrote: »
    It's only worth looking into if they actually report this to the police.

    From the linked article
    A few people with whom I’ve shared this story over the years have asked me why I didn’t call the police as soon as it happened, or publicly speak up about it shortly thereafter. The reason for that is because people—including the police—tend to believe that sex workers have placed themselves in harm’s way, and therefore can’t be assaulted.

    So there you go. Judging by some of the disgusting attitudes in this thread in fact, I can believe it.


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    #45
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    MilesMorales1 wrote: »
    From the linked article

    Cheers I'm at work so am not clicking on any linked stuff in this thread! :P
    So there you go.

    Ehh... still uneasy with this. So lob out an accusation on Twitter and the police should follow it up?


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    #46
    orubiru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭orubiru


    Delirium wrote: »
    Suggesting that the women are engaging in a PR stunt is taking neither the allegations of rape or them seriously.

    But wouldn't you agree that Twitter is the wrong place to make such allegations?

    A lot of people have done a lot of work to encourage victims of sexual assault to speak up and speak out. However, the intention was not to encourage people to just publicly start flinging allegations around. The intention was to have them report these crimes to police and have them investigated.

    People are not saying "speak up about abuse" to raise awareness that these crimes happen. The goal is to put rapists and abusers in prison, get their names on a sex offenders register, and protect other people from them. The goal is not to just shame them and allow them to keep their head down until it all blows over.

    If there are no criminal charges then you are basically giving this guy the opportunity to "play the victim" himself by saying that he has been falsely accused by people looking to push a political agenda. He will get sympathy. Other potential victims will be discouraged from speaking out.

    If there are no criminal charges then everybody loses and the discussion just goes around in circles. He said, she said. Nobody is going to change their point of view. Everyone seems to be just become further entrenched in their views.

    Nobody wins in this situation and the absolute worst case scenario is that they are just putting the idea in people's heads that false allegations are far more widespread and common than they actually are.

    The best case scenario is that the police investigate the allegations and the whole situation reaches a correct and legal conclusion.

    I don't know if he did it or not. Only the people directly involved can know that.

    We are talking about a serious crime here. The police should be involved, if they are not already.

    Taking any kind of serious criminal allegation to Twitter is, in my opinion, absolutely counter productive and, as witnessed on this thread, totally detrimental to the society wide discussion that needs to be had regarding rape.


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    #47
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,293 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Ah, right. Yeah I don't see what's stupid about that tbh. Given the industry they're working in, allegations like this are quite common, and the fact is that because they treat the issue of rape so trivially, by making allegations of this nature on social media, and considering the industry they work in, there's nothing stupid IMO about suggesting this is nothing more than a stupid publicity stunt.

    If they had made a report to the authorities, I might be inclined to take their allegations seriously, but as it stands? Not particularly.

    From what I read of the story last night already, the allegations were shown to be false, but the women maintain that their point was that anyone who makes an allegation of rape against someone should automatically be believed. To me that sounded like backtracking. Their efforts don't do anyone who has been raped, any favours, because they are promoting a recent trend where people are able to exaggerate the perception that false allegations are actually that common, when really, they aren't.

    That's why I detest the idea of anyone making these sorts of allegations against a person on social media, and that's why I considered the industry they're working in that all they seem to want to do is make a name for themselves at someone else's expense, and at the expense of people who have been raped but are too afraid to make a report to the authorities.

    If you want to ignore context, by all means, as is yours and anyone else's right. I simply choose to question the motives of the people making the allegations in this case, not only in the context of their chosen careers, but also in the context of the way in which they made these allegations.


    Tee-shirt wearing scientist, Tim Hunt, etc, it's not beyond the bounds of possibly that these women are simply lying to further their own careers. I'm simply unwilling to believe anything actually happened without so much as a shred of evidence in this particular case.

    There are a number of possible factors at play here:

    a) They may have known that there likely wouldn't be enough evidence to make a report to the authorities
    b) They may have known that, because of the industry they're in, their accusations would probably be shrugged off as "Pfft... you're in porn", which, not for nothing, is exactly what's happening
    c) They may have realised that their only course of action given an official report would probably have come to nothing would be to blacken his name publicly through social media
    d) They likely did so even in the knowledge that they would be opening themselves up to a world of online abuse, which is exactly what's happening

    Now, whether they were right or wrong to name him, and whether the accusations are true or not, saying that they're calling this guy a rapist for their own publicity, is quite the accusation to level at them with no basis other than "Pfft... you're in porn"


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    #48
    asherbassad
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭asherbassad


    keano_afc wrote: »
    There are no repercussions for false allegations. Obviously not saying those women are liars, but even if nothing is proven there's no fear they will receive any sort of punishment.

    Actually, can't they be done for slander if what they say causes loss of earnings or potential loss of earnings?


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    #49
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    MilesMorales1 wrote: »
    From the linked article



    So there you go. Judging by some of the disgusting attitudes in this thread in fact, I can believe it.


    Isn't that just her making assumptions about the authorities though?

    It's inherently hypocritical for her to make those sort of prejudiced assumptions about people based on their career choices, while at the same time claiming that people make prejudgements about her based on her career choices.

    I wouldn't go so far as to call it disgusting though, merely pointing out the irony in her own attitude.


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    #50
    kjl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,127 ✭✭✭kjl


    I don't know, I've seen a few videos that prove that Stoya likes to be taken a little rough.


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    #51
    MilesMorales1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,431 ✭✭✭MilesMorales1


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Isn't that just her making assumptions about the authorities though?

    It's inherently hypocritical for her to make those sort of prejudiced assumptions about people based on their career choices, while at the same time claiming that people make prejudgements about her based on her career choices.

    I wouldn't go so far as to call it disgusting though, merely pointing out the irony in her own attitude.

    No I wouldn't think so.

    Are we all reading the same thread here? Cos the stuff I'm seeing here isn't ok, its weird and creepy and I can't for the life of me understand where this attitude comes from.


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    #52
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    kjl wrote: »
    I don't know, I've seen a few videos that prove that Stoya likes to be taken a little rough.

    ...and is therefore unrapeable?


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    #53
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,293 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Penn wrote: »
    b) They may have known that, because of the industry they're in, their accusations would probably be shrugged off as "Pfft... you're in porn", which, not for nothing, is exactly what's happening
    kjl wrote: »
    I don't know, I've seen a few videos that prove that Stoya likes to be taken a little rough.

    Oh good, I was going to go to the trouble of looking to prove my point, but you've saved me the hassle. Thanks.


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    #54
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,338 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    kjl wrote: »
    I don't know, I've seen a few videos that prove that Stoya likes to be taken a little rough.

    Ah well, in that case I have seen a few videos that prove that Daniel Craig likes to be shot at. :)


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    #55
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    I think if you are raped, the first place you should go is to the police or hospital - not twitter or facebook.


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    #56
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,719 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Gyalist wrote: »
    I don't have a dog in this rather unseemly and sordid affair but I can't help but notice that the "accused" man's real name was used in the OP while his "accusers" hide behind pseudonyms.
    James Deen is his porn name, and all parties involved have their real names available online.
    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Ah, right. Yeah I don't see what's stupid about that tbh. Given the industry they're working in, allegations like this are quite common, and the fact is that because they treat the issue of rape so trivially, by making allegations of this nature on social media, and considering the industry they work in, there's nothing stupid IMO about suggesting this is nothing more than a stupid publicity stunt.
    So you see nothing stupid in saying that a pornstar is more likely engaging in a PR stunt if she states she has been raped? And given the attitude you've displayed, do you not think that might be part of the reason the rapes may not have been reported?

    I mean why any pornstar report rape if the response is going to be "just a PR stunt"?
    If they had made a report to the authorities, I might be inclined to take their allegations seriously, but as it stands? Not particularly.
    So if women don't report rape (for whatever reason) then they're a liar?
    From what I read of the story last night already, the allegations were shown to be false, but the women maintain that their point was that anyone who makes an allegation of rape against someone should automatically be believed. To me that sounded like backtracking. Their efforts don't do anyone who has been raped, any favours, because they are promoting a recent trend where people are able to exaggerate the perception that false allegations are actually that common, when really, they aren't.
    And saying women who work in certain industries are to be disbelieved by default is a help to people who have been raped???
    That's why I detest the idea of anyone making these sorts of allegations against a person on social media, and that's why I considered the industry they're working in that all they seem to want to do is make a name for themselves at someone else's expense, and at the expense of people who have been raped but are too afraid to make a report to the authorities.
    And yet you've no problem suggesting that women who work in porn are more likely to be engaging in PR stunts than actually be telling the truth about being raped.
    If you want to ignore context, by all means, as is yours and anyone else's right. I simply choose to question the motives of the people making the allegations in this case, not only in the context of their chosen careers, but also in the context of the way in which they made these allegations.
    I've not ignored the context. Three women who work in porn stated they've been raped by a former boyfriend and/or co-star. I've just decided not to suggest they're lying purely because of their profession.
    Tee-shirt wearing scientist, Tim Hunt, etc, it's not beyond the bounds of possibly that these women are simply lying to further their own careers. I'm simply unwilling to believe anything actually happened without so much as a shred of evidence in this particular case.
    You realise that rape of a girlfriend/boyfriend is going to be almost certainly a case of "he said, she said" if they've an active sex life, even more so if they also make porn together.

    You're not just "unwilling to believe anything happened without evidence", you're engaging in mudslinging regarding the women making the allegations (i.e. "the pornstars are possibly lying to further their careers").

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #57
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    How exactly is it good PR for a woman in porn to claim she was raped anyway? For those claiming it as a "PR stunt"?


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    #58
    MilesMorales1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,431 ✭✭✭MilesMorales1


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    I think if you are raped, the first place you should go is to the police or hospital - not twitter or facebook.

    Cos its really that simple?

    I'll tell you guys for nothing, and I don't usually talk about this, I have been sexually assaulted. And I will tell you, your first thought is not 'to the hospital, to the police, to social media' whatever, your first thought is crazy fear, anxiety, curl up into a ball and just be afraid. Just because these guys didn't immediately run to the police doesn't make it attention seekers, and I'll say again, you guys and your poor attitude is not a good thing.


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    #59
    Hammer89
    Registered Users Posts: 3,003 ✭✭✭Hammer89


    I think Kjl was joking to be fair.


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    #60
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    Hammer89 wrote: »
    I think Kjl was joking to be fair.

    Oh as long as it's just a joke at the expense of a possible rape victim then that's just lovely.


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    #61
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Penn wrote: »
    There are a number of possible factors at play here:

    a) They may have known that there likely wouldn't be enough evidence to make a report to the authorities
    b) They may have known that, because of the industry they're in, their accusations would probably be shrugged off as "Pfft... you're in porn", which, not for nothing, is exactly what's happening
    c) They may have realised that their only course of action given an official report would probably have come to nothing would be to blacken his name publicly through social media
    d) They likely did so even in the knowledge that they would be opening themselves up to a world of online abuse, which is exactly what's happening

    Now, whether they were right or wrong to name him, and whether the accusations are true or not, saying that they're calling this guy a rapist for their own publicity, is quite the accusation to level at them with no basis other than "Pfft... you're in porn"


    I think tbf my assertion was based on quite a bit more than just the fact that these women are porn stars. It was also the way in which they made these allegations, and I clarified that I would feel the same way about anyone who chose to make allegations against someone in this way.


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