Porn Superstar James Deen Accused Of "Rape" On Twitter Faces Ruin. Is This Fair?

josephryan1989

The world of porn is in shock after boy-next-door Bryan Sevilla aka "James Deen" has been accused of rape and sexual assault by ex-girlfriends Stoya, Joanna Angel and co-star Angel Fires on twitter.

The 29 year old self-professed "Male Feminist" who has spoken regularly on college campuses as an advocate for women's rights, is a charity fund raiser, is hugely popular as a clean cut boy-next-door among young female audiences and has sometimes acted in mainstream Hollywood movies, faces career oblivion. Feminist blogger Jenn Tinsdale who writes for the Huffington Post starred in a porn movie with James Deen along with other feminist bloggers.

No evidence has been put forward apart from allegations of rape and sexual assault on twitter and no complaint has been made to law enforcement and there is no criminal investigation. The allegations of the women were immediately believed of course and Deen who faces ruin has no recourse to defend himself since he is automatically judged guilty.

How can this be fair?

keano_afc

There are no repercussions for false allegations. Obviously not saying those women are liars, but even if nothing is proven there's no fear they will receive any sort of punishment.

Sorry but if Ashley Fires is saying it happened then I have to believe it happened.

kneemos

Doesn't take much to shock the world of porn.

Red Kev

keano_afc wrote: »

There are no repercussions for false allegations. Obviously not saying those women are liars, but even if nothing is proven there's no fear they will receive any sort of punishment.

Well, there is. If proven incorrect then it's defamation and/or libel and he can sue them into bankruptcy.

One eyed Jack

josephryan1989 wrote: »

The world of porn is in shock...

Small world, tbf.

No evidence has been put forward apart from allegations of rape and sexual assault on twitter and no complaint has been made to law enforcement and there is no criminal investigation. The allegations of the women were immediately believed of course and Deen who faces ruin has no recourse to defend himself since he is automatically judged guilty.

How can this be fair?

Who believes them, other idiots on twitter?

There aren't going to be too many will take a blind bit of notice of anyone in this scenario tbh.

Penn

keano_afc wrote: »

There are no repercussions for false allegations. Obviously not saying those women are liars, but even if nothing is proven there's no fear they will receive any sort of punishment.

He can sue them.

seamus

keano_afc wrote: »

There are no repercussions for false allegations.

Certainly not in the US. There is the avenue to sue for defamation, but it's quite difficult in the US as people will often hide behind the right to free speech and that'll be upheld by the courts.

Here in europe it's a lot more straightforward - if the accuser cannot prove their claims are true, then they are legally not true. Defamation cases where rape allegations are made though are messy. The plaintiff may simply want to bury their head until it all goes away - happy that those close to them know the truth. There's also the grey area - where the plaintiff may have had sex with their accuser and massively fear that this could be twisted into a narrative that "proves" rape.

It's a messy old business. Don't Twitter automatically delete things like this if they're reported?

VisibleGorilla

Trial by social media.

He is an innocent man currently.

Why not go straight to the police if this actually happened?

josephryan1989

Naturally the anti-sex feminists who are at "war" with the sex-positive feminists online are whooping in triumph.

Anti-sex feminists who claim that all heterosexual sex is rape hate porn and believe that all the women in the industry and in normal sexual relationships generally are victims of male patriarchy and rape culture. Some of the most extreme anti-sex feminists chose to become "political lesbians."

Sex-positive feminists are women who embrace sex as empowering and some go so far as to direct "feminist" porn and Deen himself has been known to star in these movies where the emphasis is on the emotional component of sex rather than the typical porn in white a muscle bound man with a giant penis has sex with multiple women.

Anti-sex feminists see handsome promiscuous men who have sex with lots of women as "rapists" and obviously a man like James Deen, no matter how intelligent, well spoken and politically progressive he is, is Enemy No. 1 because he has profited from having sex with literally thousands of women on film and is adored by a female audience who have embraced porn.

SIX PACK

josephryan1989 wrote: »

The world of porn is in shock after boy-next-door Bryan Sevilla aka "James Deen" has been accused of rape and sexual assault by ex-girlfriends Stoya, Joanna Angel and co-star Angel Fires on twitter.

The 29 year old self-professed "Male Feminist" who has spoken regularly on college campuses as an advocate for women's rights, is a charity fund raiser, is hugely popular as a clean cut boy-next-door among young female audiences and has sometimes acted in mainstream Hollywood movies, faces career oblivion. Feminist blogger Jenn Tinsdale who writes for the Huffington Post starred in a porn movie with James Deen along with other feminist bloggers.

No evidence has been put forward apart from allegations of rape and sexual assault on twitter and no complaint has been made to law enforcement and there is no criminal investigation. The allegations of the women were immediately believed of course and Deen who faces ruin has no recourse to defend himself since he is automatically judged guilty.

How can this be fair?

& Jesus wept

Hammer89

I find it hard to feel sorry for lads with nine inch willies.

sbsquarepants

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Who believes them, other idiots on twitter?

There aren't going to be too many will take a blind bit of notice of anyone in this scenario tbh.

I don't understand.
Why would no one take a blind bit of notice?

deadybai

josephryan1989 wrote: »

Bryan Sevilla aka "James Deen" has been accused of rape and sexual assault by ex-girlfriends Stoya, Joanna Angel and co-star Angel Fires on twitter.

Who are these people that you speak off?

Flint Fredstone

Boy next door must have changed meaning recently.

nozzferrahhtoo

I remember the same thing recently enough happening with Micheal Shermer. He was accused, without any evidence, of rape and the skeptic blogosphere over night became divided into the two camps of those that believed the accusations and those that believe in innocent until proven guilty.

I get intensely uncomfortable with trial by mob scenarios of this sort. Where, without any evidence, someone can throw out an accusation and the target becomes essentially guilty in the eyes of others. A user above mentions liable and defamation. But how does one prove innocence in a case like this?

But I also hate the reality of rape, that it is such a hard crime to prosecute and prove, especially if even a modicum of time passes between the event itself and the reporting of it. It must be awful to have this happen to you, and have no way to seek justice because you have no way to prove your case.

So there is no perfect solution by any means, and it sits horribly in my stomach. I can do little but hope that justice prevails somehow and whoever IS actually guilty in this situation.... a rapist or the purveyors of liable..... get what is coming to them. But all too often in this world, that does not happen.

One eyed Jack

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I don't understand.
Why would no one take a blind bit of notice?

Because all involved are porn stars - live by the sword, etc. Look at how the whole Charlie Sheen episode has been forgotten about a week later.

sbsquarepants

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Because all involved are porn stars - live by the sword, etc. Look at how the whole Charlie Sheen episode has been forgotten about a week later.

I'm even more lost now.
You think a porn star can't be raped, or that it's just not important if they are?

I don't know any of the details of the story or any of the people involved by the way, I just find your point to be quite elusive.

josephryan1989

Because all involved are porn stars - live by the sword, etc. Look at how the whole Charlie Sheen episode has been forgotten about a week later.

In the middle of a porn shoot if a female porn star wants to stop and her co-stars ignore her and don't or she is made to do acts she doesn't want to do that is sexual assault and rape.

One eyed Jack

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I'm even more lost now.
You think a porn star can't be raped, or that it's just not important if they are?

I don't know any of the details of the story or any of the people involved by the way, I just find your point to be quite elusive.

Sorry, no, of course I don't think porn stars can't be raped, and of course it's important that a person who is raped is taken seriously. I'm just not inclined to take anyone too seriously that makes those sorts of allegations against anyone else on social media.

Considering the industry they're all in, it strikes me as more a stupid publicity stunt than anything I should be likely to get too worked up over is all.

One eyed Jack

josephryan1989 wrote: »

In the middle of a porn shoot if a female porn star wants to stop and her co-stars ignore her and don't or she is made to do acts she doesn't want to do that is sexual assault and rape.

You just made that up though?

the evasion_kid

and him the feminists poster boy...

Delirium

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Sorry, no, of course I don't think porn stars can't be raped, and of course it's important that a person who is raped is taken seriously. I'm just not inclined to take anyone too seriously that makes those sorts of allegations against anyone else on social media.

Considering the industry they're all in, it strikes me as more a stupid publicity stunt than anything I should be likely to get too worked up over is all.

That didn't last long.

josephryan1989

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Sorry, no, of course I don't think porn stars can't be raped, and of course it's important that a person who is raped is taken seriously. I'm just not inclined to take anyone too seriously that makes those sorts of allegations against anyone else on social media.

Considering the industry they're all in, it strikes me as more a stupid publicity stunt than anything I should be likely to get too worked up over is all.

What seems to have happened in this case is James Deen, a highly promiscuous man, has fallen victim to female jealousy and inadequacy. Most women want to settle down and have an exclusive relationship. I would imagine his accusers were brought up expecting to one day get married, settle down and have kids. They are angry that Deen is probably not interested.
Their shelf life as porn stars is very short while a guy like Deen could be starring for decades in porn like legendary porn stars Ron Jeremy and Peter North who still make movies with girls who are between 18 and 25.
Outside of the porn set Deen can have his pick of women and probably has sex with scores of different women any given week.
To punish him these women are attacking him in the only way than can by crying rape.
Psychopathic feminists who hate men because men can have sex with multiple women and not be judged a "slut" by society or live in fear of unwanted pregnancy are naturally going to want to bring down Deen who represents everything they hate.

Saipanne

josephryan1989 wrote: »

The world of porn is in shock after boy-next-door Bryan Sevilla aka "James Deen" has been accused of rape and sexual assault by ex-girlfriends Stoya, Joanna Angel and co-star Angel Fires on twitter.

The 29 year old self-professed "Male Feminist" who has spoken regularly on college campuses as an advocate for women's rights, is a charity fund raiser, is hugely popular as a clean cut boy-next-door among young female audiences and has sometimes acted in mainstream Hollywood movies, faces career oblivion. Feminist blogger Jenn Tinsdale who writes for the Huffington Post starred in a porn movie with James Deen along with other feminist bloggers.

No evidence has been put forward apart from allegations of rape and sexual assault on twitter and no complaint has been made to law enforcement and there is no criminal investigation. The allegations of the women were immediately believed of course and Deen who faces ruin has no recourse to defend himself since he is automatically judged guilty.

How can this be fair?

Well, him being a feminist I can only surmise that he is presuming his own guilt?

According to feminists, no women makes a false rape accusation. They also believe that the onus is on the accused to clear their own name, not the accuser to provide evidence. Ergo, guilty until proven innocent.

banned

eviltwin

josephryan1989 wrote: »

What seems to have happened in this case is James Deen, a highly promiscuous man, has fallen victim to female jealousy and inadequacy. Most women want to settle down and have an exclusive relationship. I would imagine his accusers were brought up expecting to one day get married, settle down and have kids. They are angry that Deen is probably not interested.
Their shelf life as porn stars is very short while a guy like Deen could be starring for decades in porn like legendary porn stars Ron Jeremy and Peter North who still make movies with girls who are between 18 and 25.
Outside of the porn set Deen can have his pick of women and probably has sex with scores of different women any given week.
To punish him these women are attacking him in the only way than can by crying rape.

That's some theory you have there

seamus

"Porn stars are disgusting perverts who degrade themselves and so are untrustworthy subhumans"

and

"All feminists are man haters who believe that women are always right"

All inside of the first 25 posts.

There are a few posters here who could do with chatting to a therapist. Go to a man if you prefer.

c_man

josephryan1989 wrote: »

Feminist blogger Jenn Tinsdale who writes for the Huffington Post starred in a porn movie with James Deen along with other feminist bloggers.

Serious lol at this.

nozzferrahhtoo

seamus wrote: »

"Porn stars are disgusting perverts who degrade themselves and so are untrustworthy subhumans"

and

"All feminists are man haters who believe that women are always right"

All inside of the first 25 posts.

There are a few posters here who could do with chatting to a therapist. Go to a man if you prefer.

I have read worse. One lovely poster on twitter seems to think that any accusation of "rape" is not applicable in the first place. Because given we are talking about "public commercial cavities", the worst crime a rapist of a porn star can be accused of is trespassing.

I can do little in the face of that other than be thankful that twitter and forums like this give voices to minorities who would otherwise go unheard, and who are not actually representative of anything at all. This is either a case of rape, or liable. And anyone starting a sentence with something like "Considering the industry they are in......" should be treated with no respect in the conversation at all.

PinkLemonade

josephryan1989 wrote: »

What seems to have happened in this case is James Deen, a highly promiscuous man, has fallen victim to female jealousy and inadequacy. Most women want to settle down and have an exclusive relationship. I would imagine his accusers were brought up expecting to one day get married, settle down and have kids. They are angry that Deen is probably not interested.
Their shelf life as porn stars is very short while a guy like Deen could be starring for decades in porn like legendary porn stars Ron Jeremy and Peter North who still make movies with girls who are between 18 and 25.
Outside of the porn set Deen can have his pick of women and probably has sex with scores of different women any given week.
To punish him these women are attacking him in the only way than can by crying rape.
Psychopathic feminists who hate men because men can have sex with multiple women and not be judged a "slut" by society or live in fear of unwanted pregnancy are naturally going to want to bring down Deen who represents everything they hate.

You seem to be more focused on making this a gender issue than actually about trial by Media.

kneemos

Everything is bigger in the porn world.

Everything.

the evasion_kid

c_man wrote: »

Serious lol at this.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4215113

I do seem to remember a reddit AMA with an anonymous female pornstar (though it was obvious her identity) who claimed that deens wholesome image was just a front.

One eyed Jack

Delirium wrote: »

That didn't last long.

It's like you didn't even read the rest of my post?

I'm not inclined to take allegations of this magnitude or nature made on social media seriously. That doesn't mean I don't take a person who was raped seriously. It just means that I'm not inclined to take allegations of rape seriously when the word is thrown about so flippantly on social media and in the porn industry (I wouldn't presume immediately that you'd be aware of rape fantasy pornography, it's a niche market tbf).

The point is, all these are, is allegations against a person. They're all involved in the porn industry where accusations like this are all too common. The only difference here is that there seems to be a whole lot of other agendas going on.

I can either choose to get worked up about nothing, or I can suggest that perhaps they should make a report to the authorities, which is something I would advise anyone to do, rather than make allegations against anyone on social media. That's unlikely to see that justice is done for anyone involved.

Delirium

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It's like you didn't even read the rest of my post?

I'm not inclined to take allegations of this magnitude or nature made on social media seriously. That doesn't mean I don't take a person who was raped seriously. It just means that I'm not inclined to take allegations of rape seriously when the word is thrown about so flippantly on social media and in the porn industry (I wouldn't presume immediately that you'd be aware of rape fantasy pornography, it's a niche market tbf).

The point is, all these are, is allegations against a person. They're all involved in the porn industry where accusations like this are all too common. The only difference here is that there seems to be a whole lot of other agendas going on.

I can either choose to get worked up about nothing, or I can suggest that perhaps they should make a report to the authorities, which is something I would advise anyone to do, rather than make allegations against anyone on social media. That's unlikely to see that justice is done for anyone involved.

Suggesting that the women are engaging in a PR stunt is taking neither the allegations of rape or them seriously.

One eyed Jack

Delirium wrote: »

Suggesting that the women are engaging in a PR stunt is taking neither the allegations of rape or them seriously.

Yes, that's my point, in a nutshell. What was yours?

Are you suggesting that I should take these sorts of allegations by anyone, on social media, seriously, without question, as though they are actually true?

I would hope not, because that won't actually happen without any record of a complaint to the proper authorities.

smoking_kills

Delirium wrote: »

Suggesting that the women are engaging in a PR stunt is taking neither the allegations of rape or them seriously.

"I was raped, quick to the Twitter"

But yeah, we are not taking it seriously......

Delirium

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Yes, that's my point, in a nutshell. What was yours?

Are you suggesting that I should take these sorts of allegations by anyone, on social media, seriously, without question, as though they are actually true?

I would hope not, because that won't actually happen without any record of a complaint to the proper authorities.

You said that because they were porn stars it's probably a PR stunt.

Not saying you have to take the claims seriously but you don't have to post stupid stuff like that either.

Squiggle

keano_afc wrote: »

There are no repercussions for false allegations. Obviously not saying those women are liars, but even if nothing is proven there's no fear they will receive any sort of punishment.

Leonard Watters/Louis Walsh.

RGDATA!

keano_afc wrote: »

There are no repercussions for false allegations. Obviously not saying those women are liars, but even if nothing is proven there's no fear they will receive any sort of punishment.

says who?

Gyalist

I don't have a dog in this rather unseemly and sordid affair but I can't help but notice that the "accused" man's real name was used in the OP while his "accusers" hide behind pseudonyms.

MilesMorales1

What is it with people on boards and the weird hatred/dismissal of women? Its a bit weird guys.


Having read a bit more on this, this isn't the first time someone has said it, and this girl isn't alone. I'm not saying he's guilty cos thats not how justice works, but its certainly worth looking into, and attitudes like some of the ones in this thread are sickening.

One eyed Jack

Delirium wrote: »

You said that because they were porn stars it's probably a PR stunt.

Not saying you have to take the claims seriously but you don't have to post stupid stuff like that either.

Ah, right. Yeah I don't see what's stupid about that tbh. Given the industry they're working in, allegations like this are quite common, and the fact is that because they treat the issue of rape so trivially, by making allegations of this nature on social media, and considering the industry they work in, there's nothing stupid IMO about suggesting this is nothing more than a stupid publicity stunt.

If they had made a report to the authorities, I might be inclined to take their allegations seriously, but as it stands? Not particularly.

From what I read of the story last night already, the allegations were shown to be false, but the women maintain that their point was that anyone who makes an allegation of rape against someone should automatically be believed. To me that sounded like backtracking. Their efforts don't do anyone who has been raped, any favours, because they are promoting a recent trend where people are able to exaggerate the perception that false allegations are actually that common, when really, they aren't.

That's why I detest the idea of anyone making these sorts of allegations against a person on social media, and that's why I considered the industry they're working in that all they seem to want to do is make a name for themselves at someone else's expense, and at the expense of people who have been raped but are too afraid to make a report to the authorities.

If you want to ignore context, by all means, as is yours and anyone else's right. I simply choose to question the motives of the people making the allegations in this case, not only in the context of their chosen careers, but also in the context of the way in which they made these allegations.


Tee-shirt wearing scientist, Tim Hunt, etc, it's not beyond the bounds of possibly that these women are simply lying to further their own careers. I'm simply unwilling to believe anything actually happened without so much as a shred of evidence in this particular case.

c_man

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

but its certainly worth looking into

It's only worth looking into if they actually report this to the police.

MilesMorales1

c_man wrote: »

It's only worth looking into if they actually report this to the police.

From the linked article

A few people with whom I’ve shared this story over the years have asked me why I didn’t call the police as soon as it happened, or publicly speak up about it shortly thereafter. The reason for that is because people—including the police—tend to believe that sex workers have placed themselves in harm’s way, and therefore can’t be assaulted.

So there you go. Judging by some of the disgusting attitudes in this thread in fact, I can believe it.

c_man

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

From the linked article

Cheers I'm at work so am not clicking on any linked stuff in this thread! :P

So there you go.

Ehh... still uneasy with this. So lob out an accusation on Twitter and the police should follow it up?

orubiru

Delirium wrote: »

Suggesting that the women are engaging in a PR stunt is taking neither the allegations of rape or them seriously.

But wouldn't you agree that Twitter is the wrong place to make such allegations?

A lot of people have done a lot of work to encourage victims of sexual assault to speak up and speak out. However, the intention was not to encourage people to just publicly start flinging allegations around. The intention was to have them report these crimes to police and have them investigated.

People are not saying "speak up about abuse" to raise awareness that these crimes happen. The goal is to put rapists and abusers in prison, get their names on a sex offenders register, and protect other people from them. The goal is not to just shame them and allow them to keep their head down until it all blows over.

If there are no criminal charges then you are basically giving this guy the opportunity to "play the victim" himself by saying that he has been falsely accused by people looking to push a political agenda. He will get sympathy. Other potential victims will be discouraged from speaking out.

If there are no criminal charges then everybody loses and the discussion just goes around in circles. He said, she said. Nobody is going to change their point of view. Everyone seems to be just become further entrenched in their views.

Nobody wins in this situation and the absolute worst case scenario is that they are just putting the idea in people's heads that false allegations are far more widespread and common than they actually are.

The best case scenario is that the police investigate the allegations and the whole situation reaches a correct and legal conclusion.

I don't know if he did it or not. Only the people directly involved can know that.

We are talking about a serious crime here. The police should be involved, if they are not already.

Taking any kind of serious criminal allegation to Twitter is, in my opinion, absolutely counter productive and, as witnessed on this thread, totally detrimental to the society wide discussion that needs to be had regarding rape.

Penn

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Ah, right. Yeah I don't see what's stupid about that tbh. Given the industry they're working in, allegations like this are quite common, and the fact is that because they treat the issue of rape so trivially, by making allegations of this nature on social media, and considering the industry they work in, there's nothing stupid IMO about suggesting this is nothing more than a stupid publicity stunt.

If they had made a report to the authorities, I might be inclined to take their allegations seriously, but as it stands? Not particularly.

From what I read of the story last night already, the allegations were shown to be false, but the women maintain that their point was that anyone who makes an allegation of rape against someone should automatically be believed. To me that sounded like backtracking. Their efforts don't do anyone who has been raped, any favours, because they are promoting a recent trend where people are able to exaggerate the perception that false allegations are actually that common, when really, they aren't.

That's why I detest the idea of anyone making these sorts of allegations against a person on social media, and that's why I considered the industry they're working in that all they seem to want to do is make a name for themselves at someone else's expense, and at the expense of people who have been raped but are too afraid to make a report to the authorities.

If you want to ignore context, by all means, as is yours and anyone else's right. I simply choose to question the motives of the people making the allegations in this case, not only in the context of their chosen careers, but also in the context of the way in which they made these allegations.


Tee-shirt wearing scientist, Tim Hunt, etc, it's not beyond the bounds of possibly that these women are simply lying to further their own careers. I'm simply unwilling to believe anything actually happened without so much as a shred of evidence in this particular case.

There are a number of possible factors at play here:

a) They may have known that there likely wouldn't be enough evidence to make a report to the authorities
b) They may have known that, because of the industry they're in, their accusations would probably be shrugged off as "Pfft... you're in porn", which, not for nothing, is exactly what's happening
c) They may have realised that their only course of action given an official report would probably have come to nothing would be to blacken his name publicly through social media
d) They likely did so even in the knowledge that they would be opening themselves up to a world of online abuse, which is exactly what's happening

Now, whether they were right or wrong to name him, and whether the accusations are true or not, saying that they're calling this guy a rapist for their own publicity, is quite the accusation to level at them with no basis other than "Pfft... you're in porn"

asherbassad

keano_afc wrote: »

There are no repercussions for false allegations. Obviously not saying those women are liars, but even if nothing is proven there's no fear they will receive any sort of punishment.

Actually, can't they be done for slander if what they say causes loss of earnings or potential loss of earnings?

One eyed Jack

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

From the linked article



So there you go. Judging by some of the disgusting attitudes in this thread in fact, I can believe it.

Isn't that just her making assumptions about the authorities though?

It's inherently hypocritical for her to make those sort of prejudiced assumptions about people based on their career choices, while at the same time claiming that people make prejudgements about her based on her career choices.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it disgusting though, merely pointing out the irony in her own attitude.

kjl

I don't know, I've seen a few videos that prove that Stoya likes to be taken a little rough.

MilesMorales1

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Isn't that just her making assumptions about the authorities though?

It's inherently hypocritical for her to make those sort of prejudiced assumptions about people based on their career choices, while at the same time claiming that people make prejudgements about her based on her career choices.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it disgusting though, merely pointing out the irony in her own attitude.

No I wouldn't think so.

Are we all reading the same thread here? Cos the stuff I'm seeing here isn't ok, its weird and creepy and I can't for the life of me understand where this attitude comes from.