Cannabis - It must be time for legality.

Graces7 · 22-06-2018 10:12pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Humans have been using substances to alter their consciousness pretty much since day one. There is nothing sinister about it, it's just part of the human condition IMO and it's the trying to suppress it with useless laws that leads to problems.

Nah. Use your innate strength and willpower .

SOME humans. By no means all and it is not needful or an innate need, your choice as ours not to change us

Graces7 · 22-06-2018 10:16pm

seamus wrote: »

Yes, but if a medicine only worked for 1/1000 people, it would never get approved.

Therapeutic use, knock yourself out. Medicinal use? It has to be proven to work.

Wanna bet? Why do you think so many folk are seeking alternatives to prescription chemicals?

Brae100 · 22-06-2018 10:25pm

Billy86 wrote: »

The real question is definitely not 'if' but 'when', my guess being late 2020s/early 2030s.

No. After tonight's statement from Leo, we are looking at decriminalisation next year.

Billy86 · 22-06-2018 10:27pm

Graces7 wrote: »

[/B]

Then you lose your money or whatever you wagered. Happy to be in the 20% who use no alcohol etc. As are all my loved ones.

Noone needs it.

Not sure if you're aware but coffee and tea are recreational drugs too. Should we be adding you and your loved ones in to the list of recreational drug users now?

Billy86 · 22-06-2018 10:32pm

Brae100 wrote: »

No. After tonight's statement from Leo, we are looking at decriminalisation next year.

True, but decriminalisation and legalisation are fairly different. Decriminalisation still means buying off dealers, while legalisation means buying off regulated businesses; if I'm correct it can also still be confiscated and such when decriminalised. Now it could speed things up, or even see us wind up in a situation where we dilly-dally too long (as Irish governments tend to be fond of), are too late to the 'decriminalisation party' that has been going on for a while and find ourselves actually enacting those changes to legislation when other nations are legalising left, right and centre (which I believe is fairly inevitable when they see the financial gains from the likes of Canada and certain US states).

Still definitely encouraging stuff to see though.

jh79 · 22-06-2018 10:38pm

Graces7 wrote: »

Details please as this is not accurate

Pretty certain details are in here

https://www.nap.edu/read/24625/chapter/1

If not i'll have a another look for the study that confirms its poor effectiveness in chronic pain and high number of adverse effects.

AnneFrank · 22-06-2018 10:51pm

The weed in this country nowadays is made in grow houses by dodgy people, some of them not even knowing what country they are in, it's sprayed with all sorts of stuff, It's causing mental problems with many, many people.But it's so easy for anyone to get, maybe it's time to legalise and sell only naturally grown stuff,

jh79 · 22-06-2018 10:53pm

Graces7 wrote: »

Details please as this is not accurate

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/medical-marijuana-where-is-the-evidence/

Are medical cannabinoids (MC) effective for the treatment of pain?
Bottom Line: Evidence for inhaled marijuana for pain is too sparse and poor to provide good evidence-based guidance. Synthetic MC-derived products may modestly improve neuropathic pain for one in 11-14 users but perhaps not for other pain types. Additionally, longer and larger studies (better evidence) show no effect. Adverse events are plentiful.

Brae100 · 22-06-2018 10:54pm

Billy86 wrote: »

True, but decriminalisation and legalisation are fairly different. Decriminalisation still means buying off dealers, while legalisation means buying off regulated businesses; if I'm correct it can also still be confiscated and such when decriminalised. Now it could speed things up, or even see us wind up in a situation where we dilly-dally too long (as Irish governments tend to be fond of), are too late to the 'decriminalisation party' that has been going on for a while and find ourselves actually enacting those changes to legislation when other nations are legalising left, right and centre (which I believe is fairly inevitable when they see the financial gains from the likes of Canada and certain US states).

Still definitely encouraging stuff to see though.

The Canadian and US models are too young to study. The expert group have been looking at the Portuegese model which would make decriminalisation a no-brainer.

Ash.J.Williams · 22-06-2018 11:00pm

jh79 wrote: »

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/medical-marijuana-where-is-the-evidence/

Are medical cannabinoids (MC) effective for the treatment of pain?
Bottom Line: Evidence for inhaled marijuana for pain is too sparse and poor to provide good evidence-based guidance. Synthetic MC-derived products may modestly improve neuropathic pain for one in 11-14 users but perhaps not for other pain types. Additionally, longer and larger studies (better evidence) show no effect. Adverse events are plentiful.

Stangely enough I can say for a fact, dirty old soap bar hash is the only thing in the world to kill nervy tooth pain

AllForIt · 22-06-2018 11:02pm

It will be interesting to see what happens in Canada and I think we should see what transpires there over a few years before we think about changing the law here. For some reason I never felt Portugal what the best county to come to conclusions about the legalization of cannabis would be. If it can be shown that overall legalisation is a better way to deal with this issue then fine I'd go along with it but at this point I'm still unconvinced. And even if it were legalized, and that is better for society, I think it would be more a case of making the best of a bad situation rather than making it a non issue.

Billy86 · 22-06-2018 11:02pm

Brae100 wrote: »

The Canadian and US models are too young to study. The expert group have been looking at the Portuegese model which would make decriminalisation a no-brainer.

This is true, but the Canadian and US models will not be too young in a few years time, which is when I would expect us to make the move on full legalisation. Whether we enact decriminalisation before then or not, remains to be seen - even if we do go ahead with it I would expect it to be a long process of politicians wanting to gauge the temperature before doing a thing (though I would very happily be wrong about that last sentence).

Brian? · 22-06-2018 11:03pm

Graces7 wrote: »

[/B]

Then you lose your money or whatever you wagered. Happy to be in the 20% who use no alcohol etc. As are all my loved ones.

Noone needs it.

Seriously now, what the feck has “need” got to do with it? What’s wrong with a little recreational drug use? Sure it’s a great bit of craic.

I’m not into myself anymore, not really. I’ve kids to keep alive, but why should you get to tell anyone what they get up to? As long as they’re not hurting anyone.

The main ethical objection I have to any drug is the supply chain, controlled by nasty criminals. Legalized drugs tidied this up.

Brae100 · 22-06-2018 11:16pm

Billy86 wrote: »

This is true, but the Canadian and US models will not be too young in a few years time, which is when I would expect us to make the move on full legalisation. Whether we enact decriminalisation before then or not, remains to be seen - even if we do go ahead with it I would expect it to be a long process of politicians wanting to gauge the temperature before doing a thing (though I would very happily be wrong about that last sentence).

I think that this is happening a lot quicker than most people realise. Young Leo the Lion seems very progressive on this. Admitedly he has put the statement out with the wash on a Friday evening. Flying a kite to guage public opinion safely. But the moves look like he is really doing this.

Billy86 · 22-06-2018 11:22pm

Brae100 wrote: »

I think that this is happening a lot quicker than most people realise. Young Leo the Lion seems very progressive on this. Admitedly he has put the statement out with the wash on a Friday evening. Flying a kite to guage public opinion safely. But the moves look like he is really doing this.

Though Leo will do whatever will win Leo votes. True of most politicians but he's a bit further on that end in my opinion. I don't know that the demographics quite stack up right now, though in a decade they almost surely would do. But on the flip side of that I'm sure Varadkar has people who look into all that stuff as a professional and given the last two referendums maybe some data crunching made them privy to this being more popular than might be thought?

Graces7 · 23-06-2018 8:40am

Billy86 wrote: »

Not sure if you're aware but coffee and tea are recreational drugs too. Should we be adding you and your loved ones in to the list of recreational drug users now?

Not true. Any more than any food,, This idea is the last desperate counter attack by a loser! lol... roflol!

Graces7 · 23-06-2018 8:46am

jh79 wrote: »

Pretty certain details are in here

https://www.nap.edu/read/24625/chapter/1

If not i'll have a another look for the study that confirms its poor effectiveness in chronic pain and high number of adverse effects.

I have no interest in stats that rely on number crunching ... After thalidomide, opren and a few other well tested medical disasters?

As the saying goes, "Lies, damned lies and statistics."

At my advanced and painfilled old age I trust what works. and paracetamol?

Just had a decent night;s sleep on CBD oil. No side effects...

RollieFingers · 23-06-2018 10:49am

AnneFrank wrote: »

The weed in this country nowadays is made in grow houses by dodgy people, some of them not even knowing what country they are in, it's sprayed with all sorts of stuff, It's causing mental problems with many, many people.But it's so easy for anyone to get, maybe it's time to legalise and sell only naturally grown stuff,

You would want to find a different source so, the quality of stuff around has increased massively over the last year or so compared to what it was like for a while.

RollieFingers · 23-06-2018 10:51am

AnneFrank wrote: »

The weed in this country nowadays is made in grow houses by dodgy people, some of them not even knowing what country they are in, it's sprayed with all sorts of stuff, It's causing mental problems with many, many people.But it's so easy for anyone to get, maybe it's time to legalise and sell only naturally grown stuff,

Maybe you should find a different source so, the quality of stuff around has increased massively over the last year or so compared to what it was like for a while.

RollieFingers · 23-06-2018 10:52am

The person who said all the weed in Ireland is sprayed would want to find a different source, the quality of stuff around has increased massively over the last year or so compared to what it was like for a while.

waxmoth · 23-06-2018 12:10pm

jh79 wrote: »

Pretty certain details are in here

https://www.nap.edu/read/24625/chapter/1

If not i'll have a another look for the study that confirms its poor effectiveness in chronic pain and high number of adverse effects.

CONCLUSION 4-1 There is substantial evidence that cannabis is an effective treatment for chronic pain in adults.

Quotation from the linked document.

waxmoth · 23-06-2018 12:21pm

^^^^^

jh79 · 23-06-2018 5:59pm

waxmoth wrote: »

Quotation from the linked document.

Based on the results from synthetic cannabis medicine, they didn't differentiate between the 2 types. The second link i provided clarifies that. If you look at the plant data it's not effective.

jh79 · 23-06-2018 6:05pm

Graces7 wrote: »

Not true. Any more than any food,, This idea is the last desperate counter attack by a loser! lol... roflol!

I thought you believed in herbal remedies? Contradicting yourself there.

jh79 · 23-06-2018 6:24pm

jh79 wrote: »

Based on the results from synthetic cannabis medicine, they didn't differentiate between the 2 types. The second link i provided clarifies that. If you look at the plant data it's not effective.

The above is wrong, Sativex was used in most of the studies not a synthetic cannabis. They used a different name for it in the review.

Smoked weed is not effective but concentrated extract might be short term but not effective long term (see science based medicine link).

Graces7 · 23-06-2018 6:25pm

jh79 wrote: »

I thought you believed in herbal remedies? Contradicting yourself there.

Reading far more into what I say than is there. Again...

I am new to the cbd/hemp oil idea. And thankfully it is helping and I am getting excellent sleep and less pain..

With no side effects. Which is what matters. That folk get relief. Especially at my advanced age .

jh79 · 23-06-2018 6:29pm

Graces7 wrote: »

I never said that,, Reading far more into what I say than is there.

I am new to the cbd/hemp oil idea. And thankfully it is helping and I am getting excellent sleep and less pain..

With no side effects. Which is what matters. That folk get relief.

They have more side effects than synthetic chronic pain medicine and are less effective.

It might work for you but when a 100 or a 1000 people take them the majority will see little benefit or suffer adverse effects.

Billy86 · 23-06-2018 6:36pm

Graces7 wrote: »

Not true. Any more than any food,, This idea is the last desperate counter attack by a loser! lol... roflol!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoactive_drug#cite_note-demon_drink-14
Psychoactive substances are used by humans for a number of different purposes to achieve a specific end. These uses vary widely between cultures. Some substances may have controlled or illegal uses while others may have shamanic purposes, and still others are used medicinally. Other examples would be social drinking, nootropic, or sleep aids. Caffeine is the world's most widely consumed psychoactive substance, but unlike many others, it is legal and unregulated in nearly all jurisdictions. In North America, 90% of adults consume caffeine daily.[14]

Caffeine is a mind altering and highly addictive drug, like it or not. I'm actually sipping a cup of coffee right now..

And a ROFLCoper to you too.

Dick Rimmington · 23-06-2018 8:57pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

My body, my choice.

#TrustStoners

I want that T-Shirt!!!

waxmoth · 23-06-2018 10:40pm

jh79 wrote: »

Pretty certain details are in here

https://www.nap.edu/read/24625/chapter/1

If not i'll have a another look for the study that confirms its poor effectiveness in chronic pain and high number of adverse effects.

These two reviews published this year support your argument.

http://www.cfp.ca/content/cfp/64/2/e78.full.pdf

There is some uncertainty about whether cannabinoids improve pain, but if they do, it is neuropathic pain and the benefit is likely small. Adverse effects are very common, meaning benefits would need to be considerable to warrant trials of therapy.

https://europepmc.org/abstract/med/29847469

Evidence for effectiveness of cannabinoids in CNCP is limited. Effects suggest NNTB are high, and NNTH low, with limited impact on other domains. It appears unlikely that cannabinoids are highly effective medicines for CNCP.

Because of the profile of cannabis there is probably the potential for a significant placebo effect for pain.

23-06-2018 10:46pm

Pyr0 wrote: »

I know people who are mentally and physically fried from alcohol abuse or have died from smoking related cancers.

If anything, legalise it to take it away from the dealers and tax the f*ck out of it.

I'd bet the people you know who are 'mentally and physically fried' would probably have issues even if they never smoked weed, its an easy excuse to just blame weed.

Brae100 · 23-06-2018 11:10pm

To anyone in favour of prohibition, what makes you think that you have any right to legislate about what I can do with my own body?

wexie · 23-06-2018 11:10pm

waxmoth wrote: »

Because of the profile of cannabis there is probably the potential for a significant placebo effect for pain.

Doesn't make the pain go away but you care less about it.

Not sure that's what the placebo effect is though :pac:

Star Bingo · 24-06-2018 12:47am

Lets do some dope in heoh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2akAVO5Smc

Imma lose mah shoes.......

glomar · 24-06-2018 2:03pm

the n50 is gonna get more interesting if it gets legalized

Ash.J.Williams · 24-06-2018 9:11pm

glomar wrote: »

the n50 is gonna get more interesting if it gets legalized

What's the n50?

PowerToWait · 25-06-2018 1:28am

AnneFrank wrote: »

The weed in this country nowadays is made in grow houses by dodgy people, some of them not even knowing what country they are in, it's sprayed with all sorts of stuff, It's causing mental problems with many, many people.But it's so easy for anyone to get, maybe it's time to legalise and sell only naturally grown stuff,

I'm all for legalisation. But if it's grown, it's grown 'naturally' no matter who grows it. I don't believe it's causing metal problems with many people either.
And what sort of 'stuff' is it sprayed with?

The problem is, mainly, that people take too much. Potent cannabis should be treated with respect. Consumers should take a little, see where they are and then judge for themselves, not hit a bong or half a joint and find out 15 minutes later they're not able for it.

Used correctly and in doses appropriate to the consumer, their requirements etc, it has the potential to be a very positive force in people's lives.

This boring trope of the useless 'stoner', lying in all day eating and talking shít is very often hugely inaccurate.

Millions of people with successful careers, families and lives, in their 30s and older, consume cannabis with no issues. They like it.

It's a billion dollar industry in the US. And it's just starting.

25-06-2018 9:06am

PowerToWait wrote: »

I'm all for legalisation. But if it's grown, it's grown 'naturally' no matter who grows it. I don't believe it's causing metal problems with many people either.
And what sort of 'stuff' is it sprayed with?

The problem is, mainly, that people take too much. Potent cannabis should be treated with respect. Consumers should take a little, see where they are and then judge for themselves, not hit a bong or half a joint and find out 15 minutes later they're not able for it.

Its no about how it's grown. It's about how its packaged and delivered to the customer. So rather than provide a pure product, suppliers might add a variety of chemicals or substances to the oils. It really depends on what form the cannabis is being developed.

It's all fine and dandy with weed. It's when we start talking about blocks of cannabis that things become suspect.

Used correctly and in doses appropriate to the consumer, their requirements etc, it has the potential to be a very positive force in people's lives.

This boring trope of the useless 'stoner', lying in all day eating and talking shít is very often hugely inaccurate.

Millions of people with successful careers, families and lives, in their 30s and older, consume cannabis with no issues. They like it.

It's a billion dollar industry in the US. And it's just starting.

Completely agree.

wexie · 25-06-2018 9:10am

Deleted User wrote: »

It's all fine and dandy with weed. It's when we start talking about blocks of cannabis that things become suspect.

Seem to be plenty stories about of buds being sprayed with god knows what as well. Sometimes even just to fill out the weight

(or so I'm told)

PowerToWait · 25-06-2018 9:53am

Deleted User wrote: »

Its no about how it's grown. It's about how its packaged and delivered to the customer. So rather than provide a pure product, suppliers might add a variety of chemicals or substances to the oils. It really depends on what form the cannabis is being developed.

It's all fine and dandy with weed. It's when we start talking about blocks of cannabis that things become suspect.

That's happening in the rec market in California despite regulation.

I'm always curious when people say the 'weed is sprayed' without specifying what with. it's often in relation to the potency of the cannabis in question, so it's sprayed with other substances to augment potency. Urban myth according to my 'friends in the know'.

Sprayed with fungicide / pesticide fair enough. Good chance out of a warehouse in Salford.

There seems to have been some truth about the powdered glass thing from a decade ago. But from what I hear the market and consumer have matured considerably since then.

wexie · 25-06-2018 10:11am

PowerToWait wrote: »

That's happening in the rec market in California despite regulation.

I'm always curious when people say the 'weed is sprayed' without specifying what with. it's often in relation to the potency of the cannabis in question, so it's sprayed with other substances to augment potency. Urban myth according to my 'friends in the know'.

Sprayed with fungicide / pesticide fair enough. Good chance out of a warehouse in Salford.

There seems to have been some truth about the powdered glass thing from a decade ago. But from what I hear the market and consumer have matured considerably since then.

While I suspect you're probably right the issue isn't whether or not it's currently happening, the issue is that we don't know and have no way of controlling it or stopping it from happening.

Legalizing would solve that in one foul swoop, you can't have quality control over something that doesn't officially happen.

25-06-2018 10:32am

PowerToWait wrote: »

That's happening in the rec market in California despite regulation.

I'm always curious when people say the 'weed is sprayed' without specifying what with. it's often in relation to the potency of the cannabis in question, so it's sprayed with other substances to augment potency. Urban myth according to my 'friends in the know'.

Sprayed with fungicide / pesticide fair enough. Good chance out of a warehouse in Salford.

There seems to have been some truth about the powdered glass thing from a decade ago. But from what I hear the market and consumer have matured considerably since then.

Well, I'll just say that the range of options for blocks is rather varied, and general quality can be... very hit and miss. Mixing other things with the block (or powdered hash) to add weight is quite common depending on the dealer, just as spraying the block to add potency with other drugs/substances to add the high to the non-cannabis material is well-recognised.

As for your friends in the know... they know their own dealers, and such. Personally, I've done other drugs in the past and I've recognised similar effects and the same withdrawal pangs from smoking a block as using the other drug itself. Which shouldn't be happening from "pure" unaltered cannabis.

It's worth noting I'm not talking weed here. I generally avoid weed as it's too strong for me, and also usually too expensive for the amount received. I don't enjoy being stupid stoned unable to do anything at all. So weed, isn't my first choice most of the time, unless I know the grower, and can find out the actual strain used.

Graces7 · 25-06-2018 11:35am

When I was new here in Ireland, living in Lovely Leitrim, there was a Dutch couple, living in a polytunnel, growing weed... At least that is what I was told....

The Bishop Basher · 25-06-2018 3:53pm

If you feel strongly about this.. have your say here..

https://health.gov.ie/consultations/

It's mainly multiple choice so quick and easy..

They're taking submission till July 13th so share it around.

wexie · 25-06-2018 3:55pm

Rennaws wrote: »

If you feel strongly about this.. have your say here..

It's mainly multiple choice so quick and easy..

They're taking submission till July 13th so share it around.

Linky

Brae100 · 25-06-2018 9:48pm

PowerToWait wrote: »

That's happening in the rec market in California despite regulation.

I'm always curious when people say the 'weed is sprayed' without specifying what with. it's often in relation to the potency of the cannabis in question, so it's sprayed with other substances to augment potency. Urban myth according to my 'friends in the know'.

Sprayed with fungicide / pesticide fair enough. Good chance out of a warehouse in Salford.

There seems to have been some truth about the powdered glass thing from a decade ago. But from what I hear the market and consumer have matured considerably since then.

That's about right. The spraying of weight enhancers, like glass frosting that happened in the past seems to have disappeared. The issue is with the pesticides required to deal with spider mites. That **** is lethal and is sprayed on all commercial grows as a preventative.

Find someone you know who grows small scale. Will usually be a near enough organic grower. Keeps money out of criminal gangs.

Schwanz · 26-06-2018 8:01pm

Ten years most West countries will be "Legal"

jh79 · 06-07-2018 12:10pm

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(18)30110-5/fulltext

Another study showing weeds lack of effectiveness in treating chronic pain.

AlphabetCards · 06-07-2018 12:18pm

Weed for medicinal effects was always intended as a red herring, a trojan horse for getting it legalised recreationally for the benefit of Big Tobacco / Big Dope. Peter Hitchens and the Bow Group held a good talk in the Houses of Parliament last night which outlined a lot of the history of how the Misuse of Drugs act 1971 (UK) has paved the way for this nonsense. Worth looking to see if it has been uploaded online, if even to see my ugly mug.

Ash.J.Williams · 06-07-2018 12:28pm

jh79 wrote: »

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(18)30110-5/fulltext

Another study showing weeds lack of effectiveness in treating chronic pain.

I think at stage it will be legalised with out looking at medical use

Cannabis - It must be time for legality.

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