Cannabis - It must be time for legality.

Schwanz

I'm not a smoker but the benefits of this "drug" for medical use is quite remarkable really.

Recreational use.... you never ever hear of a stoner going mental and attacking people or the Police, what's the harm? Surely alcohol is more dangerous.

Thoughts....? & kudos to Canada btw. Well done to them.

Ubbquittious

I still can't find the answer to the question "why was it ever banned in the first place?"



Seems to have been schnuck onto the list of substances during the Opium convention back in the top hat and cigar days for reasons unspecified, despite having feckity all to do with opium.

Ipso

Schwanz wrote: »

I'm not a smoker but the benefits of this "drug" for medical use is quite remarkable really.

Recreational use.... you never ever hear of a stoner going mental and attacking people or the Police, what's the harm? Surely alcohol is more dangerous.

Thoughts....? & kudos to Canada btw. Well done to them.

It is?

Schwanz

Ubbquittious wrote: »

I still can't find the answer to the question "why was it ever banned in the first place?"



Seems to have been schnuck onto the list of substances during the Opium convention back in the top hat and cigar days for reasons unspecified, despite having feckity all to do with opium.

Productivity probably low in a smoker lol

super_furry

It's not something that suits me and I don't personally like it, but I can't think of any real reason why it shouldn't be made legal and taxed.

seamus

Schwanz wrote: »

I'm not a smoker but the benefits of this "drug" for medical use is quite remarkable really.

The medicinal uses are very overhyped tbh.

All the social media articles would have you believe that it's a wonder drug, when realistically very few proper studies have confirmed any medicinal use.

That's not to say I'm against legalisation, but be honest about the fact that you just want to get high, don't use pop science and anecdotes to pretend you're looking for medicine. You're not, you're looking to get off your tits. And that's fine.

_Kaiser_

seamus wrote: »

but be honest about the fact that you just want to get high, don't use pop science and anecdotes to pretend you're looking for medicine. You're not, you're looking to get off your tits. And that's fine.

Indeed... the notion that having a bunch of stoners wandering about the place is somehow going to benefit society is just nonsense.

Personally I see no reason to legalise it for general use but accept that it likely will be. I think we have enough problems with alcohol and drug abuse in this country without sanctioning it (although it's mostly about the tax and the progressive "feels"/potential votes really for the Government so Leo will probably go for it alright! :rolleyes:), and I think the presumption that all those criminals making good money off it now will just "go away" is stupid - more likely they'll graduate to petty theft and burglary to replace their incomes.

I can imagine things like driving under the influence, people being stoned at work and other such carry-on increasing dramatically after legalisation.

I really can't see any positives to it for those who don't smoke themselves.

valoren

It's just crazy to me that you can walk into a Tesco and assuming you've timed it correctly you can pretty much buy as much alcohol as you can carry away with you and no one will bat an eye lid. That possessing another psychoactive recreational drug that you just happen to ingest in a different manner can lead to a criminal conviction is just insane.

Signore Fancy Pants

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Gorgeousgeorge

I have a friend who has severe mental problems from smoking weed. Brain is totally fried.

But yeah from a medicinal point of view it should be legalised through perscription as it has many benefits.

Pyr0

Gorgeousgeorge wrote: »

I have a friend who has severe mental problems from smoking weed. Brain is totally fried.

But yeah from a medicinal point of view it should be legalised through perscription as it has many benefits.

I know people who are mentally and physically fried from alcohol abuse or have died from smoking related cancers.

If anything, legalise it to take it away from the dealers and tax the f*ck out of it.

Ubbquittious

Gorgeousgeorge wrote: »

I have a friend who has severe mental problems from smoking weed. Brain is totally fried.

But yeah from a medicinal point of view it should be legalised through perscription as it has many benefits.

How much was this person smoking and for how long?

JohnnyFlash

Cannabis is an extremely dangerous drug. The top psychiatrist in Ireland was on the radio recently talking about the epidemic of young men presenting to mental health services with life changing psychosis and schizophrenia. Nearly all young men, many from small rural towns, all completely ruined by ‘innocent’ cannabis.

https://m.independent.ie/life/health-wellbeing/study-proves-cannabis-can-lead-to-psychosis-36917630.html

The hysterical ‘well what about booze’ is the stoners default argument as well. Some losers are going to smoke weed every day anyway, so legalise away. But stop pretending that the drug is not a dirty, dangerous, demotivating substance that makes regular users pathetic and sickly looking creatures.

Liam O

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Cannabis is an extremely dangerous drug. The top psychiatrist in Ireland was on the radio recently talking about the epidemic of young men presenting to mental health services with life changing psychosis and schizophrenia. Nearly all young men, many from small rural towns, all completely ruined by ‘innocent’ cannabis.

https://m.independent.ie/life/health-wellbeing/study-proves-cannabis-can-lead-to-psychosis-36917630.html

The hysterical ‘well what about booze’ is the stoners default argument as well. Some losers are going to smoke weed every day anyway, so legalise away. But stop pretending that the drug is not a dirty, dangerous, demotivating substance that makes regular users pathetic and sickly looking creatures.

It's weed, not heroin.

I'd say there are a lot of other issues that would lead to psychosis and schizophrenia in young men these days. Not saying smoking every day isn't bad, obviously everything in moderation, but eat cake or drink 8 cans every day and bad things will happen.

Also in Ireland a lot of joints would be mainly tobacco, mainly due to the fact weed is so expensive here so I would doubt that it would be the strongest stuff. Doesn't seem to be an epidemic in the likes of Denver or California, wonder why?

This is from someone who doesn't smoke weed bar the very odd occasion.

_Kaiser_

Pyr0 wrote: »

I know people who are mentally and physically fried from alcohol abuse or have died from smoking related cancers.

If anything, legalise it to take it away from the dealers and tax the f*ck out of it.

The whataboutery doesn't diminish the risk.. nor does it excuse the abuse of those other substances.

As for the tax the f*ck out of it... all that'll happen is the same black market we have now, like cigarettes for example.

I have yet to see any real benefits offered to legalising recreational use.

Hitman3000

Chewbacca wrote:

Ban alcohol people!

Yeah worked out well for the Americans in the 20's.

Signore Fancy Pants

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Hitman3000

Joking dude both your comment and mine are cliches by now.

Pyr0

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The whataboutery doesn't diminish the risk.. nor does it excuse the abuse of those other substances.

As for the tax the f*ck out of it... all that'll happen is the same black market we have now, like cigarettes for example.

I have yet to see any real benefits offered to legalising recreational use.

I can accept a black market like you'd see with cigarettes or alcohol (which from my interaction with it, is fairly harmless) over straight up dealing lining the pockets of criminals on a massive scale and fuelling street crime.

In my opinion, the goal would be to take a big chunk of revenue out of the criminal organisations and giving the population who wish to do so, a safe and regulated product to use.

freddie1970

I have crohns disease and believe me this stuff is a life saver ..my other options steriods and humira and look at the side effects from them ..
it should be legalised ..
If people are more informed about different strains and their effects then they can take what suits ..
if you smoke skunk every day of course you will have problems ..just like drinking vodka every day i wouldnt dream of it but a glass of wine in the evening is nice the same applies to cannabis

Schwanz

Schwanz wrote: »

Recreational use.... you never ever hear of a stoner going mental and attacking people or the Police, what's the harm? Surely alcohol is more dangerous.

Yes and yes. I've seen it cause or at the least contribute to plenty of issues in plenty of people in my fairly short lifetime so far.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I have yet to see any real benefits offered to legalising recreational use.

Well obviously if you're going to dismiss them all out of hand then you won't see any.

AndyBoBandy

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Cannabis is an extremely dangerous drug. The top psychiatrist in Ireland was on the radio recently talking about the epidemic of young men presenting to mental health services with life changing psychosis and schizophrenia. Nearly all young men, many from small rural towns, all completely ruined by ‘innocent’ cannabis.

https://m.independent.ie/life/health-wellbeing/study-proves-cannabis-can-lead-to-psychosis-36917630.html

The hysterical ‘well what about booze’ is the stoners default argument as well. Some losers are going to smoke weed every day anyway, so legalise away. But stop pretending that the drug is not a dirty, dangerous, demotivating substance that makes regular users pathetic and sickly looking creatures.

Drug dealers don’t ask for ID when selling it to customers, a buyer is a buyer no matter what age they are. A regulated service would indeed check for age before dispensing it, similar to alcohol & tobacco. Will that prevent under 18’s from obtaining it and using it? Of course not, but it would certainly be more difficult for under 18’s to get it.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I have yet to see any real benefits offered to legalising recreational use.

If you don't see any benefit to legalising cannabis then you are very clearly not looking.

- Not criminalising otherwise law abiding citizens
- Freeing up Garda resources
- Freeing up Court resources
- Freeing up Prison resources
- More income in tax
- Reduce peoples use of alcohol
- Reduce peoples use of opioids
- Cutting off a major source of income for organised crime

There's 8 solid reasons that legalising it would bring to society. There's plenty more as well.

In fact, most evidence points to the fact that there is almost no tangible benefit for having it illegal. Can you name any?

Signore Fancy Pants

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kneemos

CANNABIS GIVES YOU MAN BOOBS.

https://www.cnn.com/2013/12/05/health/youn-pot-moobs/index.html

Hitman3000

Chewbacca wrote:

I know man, tbats what I was going for. I need to start using smileys.

Sound.

NIMAN

I'm split on it

For medicinal purposes, by all means.

But do we need a load of stoners dandering around?

_Kaiser_

Pyr0 wrote: »

I can accept a black market like you'd see with cigarettes or alcohol (which from my interaction with it, is fairly harmless) over straight up dealing lining the pockets of criminals on a massive scale and fuelling street crime.

In my opinion, the goal would be to take a big chunk of revenue out of the criminal organisations and giving the population who wish to do so, a safe and regulated product to use.

Who do you think is behind many of these cigarette/alcohol black markets?

Also, why do you think it'll help the crime situation at all? Are we to believe that criminals who are making anywhere from thousands to millions on this trade will simply shrug and say "oh well! Nice while it lasted!", or do you think maybe they'll turn to other avenues... peddling harder drugs, theft, burglary etc.

Graces7

Liam O wrote: »

It's weed, not heroin.

I'd say there are a lot of other issues that would lead to psychosis and schizophrenia in young men these days. Not saying smoking every day isn't bad, obviously everything in moderation, but eat cake or drink 8 cans every day and bad things will happen.

Also in Ireland a lot of joints would be mainly tobacco, mainly due to the fact weed is so expensive here so I would doubt that it would be the strongest stuff. Doesn't seem to be an epidemic in the likes of Denver or California, wonder why?

This is from someone who doesn't smoke weed bar the very odd occasion.

Nothing wrong with cake.

AndyBoBandy

NIMAN wrote: »

But do we need a load of stoners dandering around?

Is it’s use after being legalised going to increase 10 fold?
Or will current users just no longer be taking an illegal substance, and rather a legal substance.

If someone wants to try it out now they’ll get it easily enough.

Yes there may very well be an uptake in consumption, but to assume that suddenly most people will suddenly become stoners is a weak argument.

Signore Fancy Pants

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ceadaoin.

Chewbacca wrote: »

It's not a weak argument as it has the potential to happen.

I have never used cannabis, mainly because it is illegal not because I havent had the opportunity.

If it becomes legal for all, maybe I will.

I live where it is legal, I haven't noticed an increase in people stoned out of their heads wandering around the place and by all accounts, the police haven't either.

doolox

If one looks back on the historical context of banning cannabis you can see a selective discrimination of banning a substance that is cheap, effective and in direct competition with alcohol. Most people drink alcohol to dull the pain of a pointless and painful semi existence in a world of semi slavery working to enrich some dominant and over powerful boss in some pointless and infuriatingly boring job until you die. People in western societies use alcohol to dull the pain.

People in other societies used marijuana or cannabis or hemp to dull the pain of their increasingly painful existences. Queen Victoria swore by it and used it asidiously before it was made illegal.

The Americans are to blame for making most drugs illegal, think puritanism and the prohibition mindset that plagued the world with total alcohol prohibition starting in the 1920's. This not only effected the US but seemingly sensible countries like Norway, Finland and Iceland where alcohol control and prohibition was implemented with similar failed results to the disastrous near civil war that resulted in the US in the 1920's and early 30's.

The zealots in charge of alcohol prohibition authorised the deliberate poisoning of industrial alcohol with methyl alcohol and strychnine in order to attempt to prevent people from drinking it. This caused 50,000 deaths in the US in the period of prohibition from 1919 to 1933. This was sanctioned and approved by the government!!!.

A similar problem exists with the production, trading and consumption of cannabis, there is no regulation or quality control or way to gauge the strength, nature or toxicity of what you buy from unregulated and illegal sources. You could be smoking turf for all you know.

People who live sheltered middle class lives, free from all temptation and inclination to use drugs will never be in a position to understand or legislate for the trade, use, or involvement in what are now illegal drugs. People are now formulating new drugs in order to circumvent laws banning them from sale. The law makers then have to enact new laws banning these new and artificial drugs from being sold. There is an arms race scenario going on between drug makers and law makers with the people of most countries being caught in the middle like cannon fodder.

What needs to happen is a serious, non judgemental conversation at all levels concerning how we approach drugs in the future. Similar to the recent peoples forum om the 8th amendment, where we can short circuit the vote greedy, cowardly and anodyne politicians out of the equation and get real peoples views on the subject, people with no vested interest in virtue signalling in the fear of losing "respectable" peoples votes and people on the coalface of life who see the impact of the prohibition and marginalisation of drug use in western society.

There might be insight for all.

Pro drug users might see to need to control and moderate their use of drugs in order to pursue their career goals and enhance their lives and stay functional in ever more demanding jobs.

Anti drug users might see that moderate drug use of regulated, legally controlled drugs in small and controlled amounts in controlled and honest and regulated circumstances may not be the end of the world. The true facts need to be dragged out into the open and discussed in an honest, dispassionate and informed way. This cannot happen in the present puritanical and hysterically ignorant and puritanical legal framework we endure today, no thanks to the Americans.

_Brian

I fully support medicinal cannabis but I wouldn’t support recreational use.

My own experiences are that it damages people and is indeed often a gateway to harder drugs.

People who say legalising it will remove the criminal element need to look at tobacco and the sheer volume of illegal tobacco being pedalled openly everywhere which no doubt feeds illegal groups. Part legitimising another income stream can’t be the way forward. I would have a similar view to prostitution, it damages people and allows for trafficking of women to be hidden in the numbers.

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

criminals who are making anywhere from thousands to millions on this trade

So your answer is to continue to leave what is essentially a supply and demand industry in the hands of such criminal enterprises? How is that in anyway a solution? Declaring certain drugs as ‘banned substances’ has utterly failed as a strategy in stopping people getting their hands on them. Need to stop wasting the precious time of the forces of law & order in trying to enforce such methods.

DickSwiveller

Why, when there is a huge campaign underway to deter people from smoking cigarettes, would you legalise another dangerous drug. It's baffling. And the alleged medical benefits are greatly over hyped.

DickSwiveller

Deleted User wrote: »

So your answer is to continue to leave what is essentially a supply and demand industry in the hands of such criminal enterprises? How is that in anyway a solution? Declaring certain drugs as ‘banned substances’ has utterly failed as a strategy in stopping people getting their hands on them. Need to stop wasting the precious time of the forces of law & order in trying to enforce such methods.

Why is it better to put it in the hands of cynical businessmen?

freddie1970

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Why, when there is a huge campaign underway to deter people from smoking cigarettes, would you legalise another dangerous drug. It's baffling. And the alleged medical benefits are greatly over hyped.

believe me the benefits are not over hyped

AndyBoBandy

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Why is it better to put it in the hands of cynical businessmen?

Businessmen must follow certain rules & regulations?

Rules & regulations that drug dealers don’t give a toss about.

Mutant z

If people want to have it for recreational use then surely its their own business.

Schwanz

I know a lot of non stoner couples who use it to enhance their sex life and they bother nobody.

Wonder drug if you ask me

buried

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Why is it better to put it in the hands of cynical businessmen?

You know this answer yourself man. Top Businesses run on share prices, which dictates that the product they produce is of good quality that can be tailored to create and satisfy all sorts of markets to increase share price. War on the stock market. Street Criminals deal in different system which involves no share price, it is war on the street, same streets me and you have to walk on.

_Dara_

Weed did the square root of fuck all for my cancer pain, tbh. I’m fine with it being legalised but I do think the medicinal properties might be a tad overhyped.

buried

_Dara_ wrote: »

Weed did the square root of fuck all for my cancer pain, tbh. I’m fine with it being legalised but I do think the medicinal properties might be a tad overhyped.

If you don't mind me asking D, What form of cannabis were you taking for it?

Signore Fancy Pants

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wexie

_Dara_ wrote: »

Weed did the square root of fuck all for my cancer pain, tbh. I’m fine with it being legalised but I do think the medicinal properties might be a tad overhyped.

Thing is though, if you got it in Ireland....chances are it wasn't very good and I'd take a guess it wasn't medicinal.

I'm not saying that any other quality or type would work, but what you likely got would have been the equivalent of paracetamol in the pain killer world.

DEFTLEFTHAND

The potential respiratory problems are another issue. Have you ever heard the stoner's cough, sounds like an veteran coal miner from the 1930s. Not to mention the link with lung cancer.

In a time when we seem to be heading towards eventually banning the sale of tobacco it would seem strange to introduce this.


Personally speaking however I don't mind what choices people make in regards to their own bodies and health.


I smoked cigs and regularly binged drinked for 10 years so I'm not in a position to judge anybody.

_Dara_

wexie wrote: »

Thing is though, if you got it in Ireland....chances are it wasn't very good and I'd take a guess it wasn't medicinal.

I'm not saying that any other quality or type would work, but what you likely got would have been the equivalent of paracetamol in the pain killer world.

Paracetamol is actually a highly effective painkiller for me. Much better than weed. Don’t knock the ol’ paracetamol, it’s pretty fantastic.

buried

I find the CBD oil highly effective. No THC in it whatsoever but it is highly effective on a regular dose for pro-longed relaxed mindset and anti-anxiety. It is also a great anti-inflammatory IMO, I have bad skin, real bad not psoriasis but not far off, since I've been regular dosing CBD my skin condition has improved a great great deal. Could be a placebo, could also be my mindset has improved 100% since I've been taking two drops of that stuff a day for the last few months which took the stress off that could have been affecting my skin and god knows what else.
I used to smoke weed but the quality of product here was so poor and the THC so strong I couldn't enjoy it any more. Go to Amsterdam and legally get what suits me, buy a product that is regulated and suits my limit so I know what I am dealing with, and it's a totally different story.

Dick Rimmington

This!!!

Mutant z wrote: »

If people want to have it for recreational use then surely its their own business.

We need to stop trying to babysit adults. Cannabis can be very helpful for people, be it to help them sleep, raise their appetite, manage pain or simply unwind after a long day in work.
It doesnt matter why people decide to use it, its nobodies business as long as they are adults.
Anything can be abused but there isnt even a danger of overdosing on cannabis. And legalizing/decriminalizing is not going to make it mandatory so if it's not your thing then that is perfectly fine too

wexie

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The potential respiratory problems are another issue. Have you ever heard the stoner's cough, sounds like an veteran coal miner from the 1930s. Not to mention the link with lung cancer.

In a time when we seem to be heading towards eventually banning the sale of tobacco it would seem strange to introduce this.

Personally speaking however I don't mind what choices people make in regards to their own bodies and health.

I smoked cigs and regularly binged drinked for 10 years so I'm not in a position to judge anybody.

of course there are many other ways of 'taking' cannabis, eat it, cook with it, make tea with it etc. etc. etc.

of course you're probably right in that smoking will be the most used option.