Cannabis - It must be time for legality.

AllForIt · 22-06-2018 11:02PM

It will be interesting to see what happens in Canada and I think we should see what transpires there over a few years before we think about changing the law here. For some reason I never felt Portugal what the best county to come to conclusions about the legalization of cannabis would be. If it can be shown that overall legalisation is a better way to deal with this issue then fine I'd go along with it but at this point I'm still unconvinced. And even if it were legalized, and that is better for society, I think it would be more a case of making the best of a bad situation rather than making it a non issue.

Billy86 · 22-06-2018 11:02PM

Brae100 wrote: »

The Canadian and US models are too young to study. The expert group have been looking at the Portuegese model which would make decriminalisation a no-brainer.

This is true, but the Canadian and US models will not be too young in a few years time, which is when I would expect us to make the move on full legalisation. Whether we enact decriminalisation before then or not, remains to be seen - even if we do go ahead with it I would expect it to be a long process of politicians wanting to gauge the temperature before doing a thing (though I would very happily be wrong about that last sentence).

Brian? · 22-06-2018 11:03PM

Graces7 wrote: »

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Then you lose your money or whatever you wagered. Happy to be in the 20% who use no alcohol etc. As are all my loved ones.

Noone needs it.

Seriously now, what the feck has “need” got to do with it? What’s wrong with a little recreational drug use? Sure it’s a great bit of craic.

I’m not into myself anymore, not really. I’ve kids to keep alive, but why should you get to tell anyone what they get up to? As long as they’re not hurting anyone.

The main ethical objection I have to any drug is the supply chain, controlled by nasty criminals. Legalized drugs tidied this up.

Brae100 · 22-06-2018 11:16PM

Billy86 wrote: »

This is true, but the Canadian and US models will not be too young in a few years time, which is when I would expect us to make the move on full legalisation. Whether we enact decriminalisation before then or not, remains to be seen - even if we do go ahead with it I would expect it to be a long process of politicians wanting to gauge the temperature before doing a thing (though I would very happily be wrong about that last sentence).

I think that this is happening a lot quicker than most people realise. Young Leo the Lion seems very progressive on this. Admitedly he has put the statement out with the wash on a Friday evening. Flying a kite to guage public opinion safely. But the moves look like he is really doing this.

Billy86 · 22-06-2018 11:22PM

Brae100 wrote: »

I think that this is happening a lot quicker than most people realise. Young Leo the Lion seems very progressive on this. Admitedly he has put the statement out with the wash on a Friday evening. Flying a kite to guage public opinion safely. But the moves look like he is really doing this.

Though Leo will do whatever will win Leo votes. True of most politicians but he's a bit further on that end in my opinion. I don't know that the demographics quite stack up right now, though in a decade they almost surely would do. But on the flip side of that I'm sure Varadkar has people who look into all that stuff as a professional and given the last two referendums maybe some data crunching made them privy to this being more popular than might be thought?

Graces7 · 23-06-2018 08:40AM

Billy86 wrote: »

Not sure if you're aware but coffee and tea are recreational drugs too. Should we be adding you and your loved ones in to the list of recreational drug users now?

Not true. Any more than any food,, This idea is the last desperate counter attack by a loser! lol... roflol!

Graces7 · 23-06-2018 08:46AM

jh79 wrote: »

Pretty certain details are in here

https://www.nap.edu/read/24625/chapter/1

If not i'll have a another look for the study that confirms its poor effectiveness in chronic pain and high number of adverse effects.

I have no interest in stats that rely on number crunching ... After thalidomide, opren and a few other well tested medical disasters?

As the saying goes, "Lies, damned lies and statistics."

At my advanced and painfilled old age I trust what works. and paracetamol?

Just had a decent night;s sleep on CBD oil. No side effects...

RollieFingers · 23-06-2018 10:49AM

AnneFrank wrote: »

The weed in this country nowadays is made in grow houses by dodgy people, some of them not even knowing what country they are in, it's sprayed with all sorts of stuff, It's causing mental problems with many, many people.But it's so easy for anyone to get, maybe it's time to legalise and sell only naturally grown stuff,

You would want to find a different source so, the quality of stuff around has increased massively over the last year or so compared to what it was like for a while.

RollieFingers · 23-06-2018 10:51AM

AnneFrank wrote: »

The weed in this country nowadays is made in grow houses by dodgy people, some of them not even knowing what country they are in, it's sprayed with all sorts of stuff, It's causing mental problems with many, many people.But it's so easy for anyone to get, maybe it's time to legalise and sell only naturally grown stuff,

Maybe you should find a different source so, the quality of stuff around has increased massively over the last year or so compared to what it was like for a while.

RollieFingers · 23-06-2018 10:52AM

The person who said all the weed in Ireland is sprayed would want to find a different source, the quality of stuff around has increased massively over the last year or so compared to what it was like for a while.

waxmoth · 23-06-2018 12:10PM

jh79 wrote: »

Pretty certain details are in here

https://www.nap.edu/read/24625/chapter/1

If not i'll have a another look for the study that confirms its poor effectiveness in chronic pain and high number of adverse effects.

CONCLUSION 4-1 There is substantial evidence that cannabis is an effective treatment for chronic pain in adults.

Quotation from the linked document.

waxmoth · 23-06-2018 12:21PM

^^^^^

23-06-2018 05:59PM

waxmoth wrote: »

Quotation from the linked document.

Based on the results from synthetic cannabis medicine, they didn't differentiate between the 2 types. The second link i provided clarifies that. If you look at the plant data it's not effective.

23-06-2018 06:05PM

Graces7 wrote: »

Not true. Any more than any food,, This idea is the last desperate counter attack by a loser! lol... roflol!

I thought you believed in herbal remedies? Contradicting yourself there.

23-06-2018 06:24PM

jh79 wrote: »

Based on the results from synthetic cannabis medicine, they didn't differentiate between the 2 types. The second link i provided clarifies that. If you look at the plant data it's not effective.

The above is wrong, Sativex was used in most of the studies not a synthetic cannabis. They used a different name for it in the review.

Smoked weed is not effective but concentrated extract might be short term but not effective long term (see science based medicine link).

Graces7 · 23-06-2018 06:25PM

jh79 wrote: »

I thought you believed in herbal remedies? Contradicting yourself there.

Reading far more into what I say than is there. Again...

I am new to the cbd/hemp oil idea. And thankfully it is helping and I am getting excellent sleep and less pain..

With no side effects. Which is what matters. That folk get relief. Especially at my advanced age .

23-06-2018 06:29PM

Graces7 wrote: »

I never said that,, Reading far more into what I say than is there.

I am new to the cbd/hemp oil idea. And thankfully it is helping and I am getting excellent sleep and less pain..

With no side effects. Which is what matters. That folk get relief.

They have more side effects than synthetic chronic pain medicine and are less effective.

It might work for you but when a 100 or a 1000 people take them the majority will see little benefit or suffer adverse effects.

Billy86 · 23-06-2018 06:36PM

Graces7 wrote: »

Not true. Any more than any food,, This idea is the last desperate counter attack by a loser! lol... roflol!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoactive_drug#cite_note-demon_drink-14
Psychoactive substances are used by humans for a number of different purposes to achieve a specific end. These uses vary widely between cultures. Some substances may have controlled or illegal uses while others may have shamanic purposes, and still others are used medicinally. Other examples would be social drinking, nootropic, or sleep aids. Caffeine is the world's most widely consumed psychoactive substance, but unlike many others, it is legal and unregulated in nearly all jurisdictions. In North America, 90% of adults consume caffeine daily.[14]

Caffeine is a mind altering and highly addictive drug, like it or not. I'm actually sipping a cup of coffee right now..

And a ROFLCoper to you too.

Dick Rimmington · 23-06-2018 08:57PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

My body, my choice.

#TrustStoners

I want that T-Shirt!!!

waxmoth · 23-06-2018 10:40PM

jh79 wrote: »

Pretty certain details are in here

https://www.nap.edu/read/24625/chapter/1

If not i'll have a another look for the study that confirms its poor effectiveness in chronic pain and high number of adverse effects.

These two reviews published this year support your argument.

http://www.cfp.ca/content/cfp/64/2/e78.full.pdf

There is some uncertainty about whether cannabinoids improve pain, but if they do, it is neuropathic pain and the benefit is likely small. Adverse effects are very common, meaning benefits would need to be considerable to warrant trials of therapy.

https://europepmc.org/abstract/med/29847469

Evidence for effectiveness of cannabinoids in CNCP is limited. Effects suggest NNTB are high, and NNTH low, with limited impact on other domains. It appears unlikely that cannabinoids are highly effective medicines for CNCP.

Because of the profile of cannabis there is probably the potential for a significant placebo effect for pain.

23-06-2018 10:46PM

Pyr0 wrote: »

I know people who are mentally and physically fried from alcohol abuse or have died from smoking related cancers.

If anything, legalise it to take it away from the dealers and tax the f*ck out of it.

I'd bet the people you know who are 'mentally and physically fried' would probably have issues even if they never smoked weed, its an easy excuse to just blame weed.

Brae100 · 23-06-2018 11:10PM

To anyone in favour of prohibition, what makes you think that you have any right to legislate about what I can do with my own body?

wexie · 23-06-2018 11:10PM

waxmoth wrote: »

Because of the profile of cannabis there is probably the potential for a significant placebo effect for pain.

Doesn't make the pain go away but you care less about it.

Not sure that's what the placebo effect is though :pac:

Star Bingo · 24-06-2018 12:47AM

Lets do some dope in heoh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2akAVO5Smc

Imma lose mah shoes.......

glomar · 24-06-2018 02:03PM

the n50 is gonna get more interesting if it gets legalized

Ash.J.Williams · 24-06-2018 09:11PM

glomar wrote: »

the n50 is gonna get more interesting if it gets legalized

What's the n50?

PowerToWait · 25-06-2018 01:28AM

AnneFrank wrote: »

The weed in this country nowadays is made in grow houses by dodgy people, some of them not even knowing what country they are in, it's sprayed with all sorts of stuff, It's causing mental problems with many, many people.But it's so easy for anyone to get, maybe it's time to legalise and sell only naturally grown stuff,

I'm all for legalisation. But if it's grown, it's grown 'naturally' no matter who grows it. I don't believe it's causing metal problems with many people either.
And what sort of 'stuff' is it sprayed with?

The problem is, mainly, that people take too much. Potent cannabis should be treated with respect. Consumers should take a little, see where they are and then judge for themselves, not hit a bong or half a joint and find out 15 minutes later they're not able for it.

Used correctly and in doses appropriate to the consumer, their requirements etc, it has the potential to be a very positive force in people's lives.

This boring trope of the useless 'stoner', lying in all day eating and talking shít is very often hugely inaccurate.

Millions of people with successful careers, families and lives, in their 30s and older, consume cannabis with no issues. They like it.

It's a billion dollar industry in the US. And it's just starting.

25-06-2018 09:06AM

PowerToWait wrote: »

I'm all for legalisation. But if it's grown, it's grown 'naturally' no matter who grows it. I don't believe it's causing metal problems with many people either.
And what sort of 'stuff' is it sprayed with?

The problem is, mainly, that people take too much. Potent cannabis should be treated with respect. Consumers should take a little, see where they are and then judge for themselves, not hit a bong or half a joint and find out 15 minutes later they're not able for it.

Its no about how it's grown. It's about how its packaged and delivered to the customer. So rather than provide a pure product, suppliers might add a variety of chemicals or substances to the oils. It really depends on what form the cannabis is being developed.

It's all fine and dandy with weed. It's when we start talking about blocks of cannabis that things become suspect.

Used correctly and in doses appropriate to the consumer, their requirements etc, it has the potential to be a very positive force in people's lives.

This boring trope of the useless 'stoner', lying in all day eating and talking shít is very often hugely inaccurate.

Millions of people with successful careers, families and lives, in their 30s and older, consume cannabis with no issues. They like it.

It's a billion dollar industry in the US. And it's just starting.

Completely agree.

wexie · 25-06-2018 09:10AM

Deleted User wrote: »

It's all fine and dandy with weed. It's when we start talking about blocks of cannabis that things become suspect.

Seem to be plenty stories about of buds being sprayed with god knows what as well. Sometimes even just to fill out the weight

(or so I'm told)

PowerToWait · 25-06-2018 09:53AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Its no about how it's grown. It's about how its packaged and delivered to the customer. So rather than provide a pure product, suppliers might add a variety of chemicals or substances to the oils. It really depends on what form the cannabis is being developed.

It's all fine and dandy with weed. It's when we start talking about blocks of cannabis that things become suspect.

That's happening in the rec market in California despite regulation.

I'm always curious when people say the 'weed is sprayed' without specifying what with. it's often in relation to the potency of the cannabis in question, so it's sprayed with other substances to augment potency. Urban myth according to my 'friends in the know'.

Sprayed with fungicide / pesticide fair enough. Good chance out of a warehouse in Salford.

There seems to have been some truth about the powdered glass thing from a decade ago. But from what I hear the market and consumer have matured considerably since then.

Cannabis - It must be time for legality.

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