VW emissions software update - disaster

Special Circumstances · 12-02-2017 9:31pm

Mooooo wrote: »

Scr with Adblue is the option most agri companies are taking now afaik to meet emissions. If the car is using scr there is no need for egr if I'm correct and the dpf would last longer?

If it's driven at a particular altitude at particular temperatures in a particular way :pac:

gctest50 · 12-02-2017 9:37pm

ABC101 wrote: »

........................Renault have publicly admitted that they are thinking of phasing out diesels in the A + B car segments, the cost of getting a emission compliant engine into a car of this class exceeds the sale price of the car, the return does not match the effort.
The future appears to be EV?

Isuzu are getting out of the engines for mining game - ROI lower than other markets

Why is Isuzu getting out of the mining engine business?

Mining engines are not regulated by the US EPA, but rather by an independent regulatory agency (MSHA). Compliance with this agency requires a significant investment in both finances and resources and the potential return on this investment is far lower than that of other, more lucrative markets. Should the regulatory conditions change with regard to MSHA applications, this decision will again be reviewed and reconsidered.

Micky 32 · 12-02-2017 10:03pm

H.E. Pennypacker wrote: »

No - not all diesels sold new here use Adblue

Mostly only the higher powered diesels use adblue but i'd say all diesel engines will be using it in the near future.

X6.430macman · 12-02-2017 10:10pm

Mooooo wrote:

Scr with Adblue is the option most agri companies are taking now afaik to meet emissions. If the car is using scr there is no need for egr if I'm correct and the dpf would last longer?

It's depends like some agri lads use just scr, and then other yokes to comply with the same emmission standard use scr, vgt, doc, dpf, egr, basically all the toys for the same standard

ABC101 · 12-02-2017 10:16pm

If battery cost / EV development continue to drop and ICE cost continue to increase (due to more difficult emissions) then car manufacturers will phase out ICE slowly.

Diesel sales which reached 52% of all European car sales in 2016, is expected to drop to 9% by 2030!!!

http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-renault-diesel-exclusive-idUKKCN11C1MF

pablo128 · 12-02-2017 10:17pm

Micky 32 wrote: »

Mostly only the higher powered diesels use adblue but i'd say all diesel engines will be using it in the near future.

My bro has a 161 Caddy 2.0 110 bhp and it has adblue.

Noccy_Mondy · 16-02-2017 12:25am

Some light bedtime reading.

Check out the FB page, if anyones interested...

bazz26 · 16-02-2017 12:34am

Noccy_Mondy · 16-02-2017 12:36am

Yeah, well it's been all doom and gloom on this thread, not saying that these boys are the ones to 'fix' it (only after seeing it myself an hour ago), but it's a step!

Buffman · 16-02-2017 6:06pm

Ye, looks like there might be a nice little market there now for the remappers to fix the 'fix' of the original NOx "fix"!:pac:

Azatadine · 28-02-2017 8:23pm

Without having to read the whole thread on my phone.... I've got the emissions update letter for my 2013 A6 and I have no intention of getting it done. However, wondering if it be an issue come NCT time later in the year?

colm_mcm · 28-02-2017 8:27pm

Cortecs wrote: »

Without having to read the whole thread on my phone.... I've got the emissions update letter for my 2013 A6 and I have no intention of getting it done. However, wondering if it be an issue come NCT time later in the year?

No. nothing to worry about.

Azatadine · 28-02-2017 8:29pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

No. nothing to worry about.

Excellent. Thanks! No update it is then.

Frankie Lee · 28-02-2017 8:30pm

One upside of getting it done is that if your car hasn't had EGR trouble yet and it happens after the software update then it should be covered by VW foc.

Armchair Andy · 28-02-2017 8:42pm

Doubt that very much. Have you proof?

KCross · 28-02-2017 8:48pm

Frankie Lee wrote: »

One upside of getting it done is that if your car hasn't had EGR trouble yet and it happens after the software update then it should be covered by VW foc.

You will have some job convincing VW that the update caused it, unless it happened as you drove it out the garage door!

benny79 · 01-03-2017 10:58am

On a side note, my 09 Passat Tdi was due update last Fri booked in a few weeks ago etc came across this thread. decided against it. Didn't phone them or anything. Not even a phone call from them as a reminder or to ask what happened when I didn't turn up!
Just show's how great their customer service is! not..

As the saying goes if it ain't broke then don't fix it!

Gwynston · 28-03-2017 2:36pm

Frankie Lee wrote: »

One upside of getting it done is that if your car hasn't had EGR trouble yet and it happens after the software update then it should be covered by VW foc.

VW took in our 2011 Golf 1.6 TDi about 6 weeks ago for the emissions update. There was no obvious change in the car upon return - although I'm suspicious that the mpg has worsened, I didn't do definitive measurements before and after to be certain.

Anyway, last weekend my wife had to drive all the way down to Dingle from Galway (probably the longest journey she's ever driven herself). She called me en route to say she'd started getting a flashing Glow Plug light and after a while the car went in to limp mode. I suggested she stop for a break and when she resumed, it seemed to have gone away.

But at the end of the weekend she had to drive all the way back to Galway at night (with a passenger) and the problem came back. I told her over the phone to just keep going as limp mode was OK on the motorway, but then the engine light came on also, plus a message about an engine fault and they started panicking, not wanting to be stranded in the middle of nowhere. They were having trouble understanding the warnings and decided to stop at Ennis and found somewhere to the stay the night.

They happened to be near Western Garages VW dealer, so she took it in to them on Monday morning. The diagnostics said a bunch of stuff about EGR faults and filters, which was going to be over €1,100 to fix :eek: But the engineer could see from the data that we'd always serviced it on schedule at a VW dealer and they'd done the emissions update just recently.

I'm not entirely clear on the detail, but it seems that VW are going to cover most of the cost under their "Good Will" policy. We just have to pay a nominal €130 to the garage to qualify for the warranty that covers their work. So I'm not sure if this is an admission by VW that the update directly caused our EGR problems, or if this is a general known issue with that generation engine which they're accepting liability for?

After a bit of back-and-forth, once he was satisfied VW were going to cover it too, the service manager also gave my wife a courtesy car, as she still needed to get back to Galway (having also incurred the overnight accommodation cost).

It could take a week to be fixed, so we'll wait to see what happens...

Gwynston · 28-03-2017 2:39pm

Oh, and after some research, my wife found this article that just happened to come out over the weekend:

The Guardian: Up in smoke: the VW emissions ‘fix’ has left our car undriveable

Stallingrad · 28-03-2017 2:48pm

Gwynston wrote: »

Oh, and after some research, my wife found this article that just happened to come out over the weekend:

The Guardian: Up in smoke: the VW emissions ‘fix’ has left our car undriveable

Is it possible that these are typical VW failures and that would have happened with or without the software update? Just an unhappy coincidence?

Gwynston · 28-03-2017 2:52pm

Yes, I was thinking the same.
And also with our own failure - it's not clear if VW are owning up to a problem caused by the update, or with the original engine design.

I'll try to find out more when we go to get the car back.

Stallingrad · 28-03-2017 2:57pm

Sorry for your trouble Gwynston.

Either way, it makes second hand diesel VW a deeply unappealing purchase.

bear1 · 28-03-2017 3:05pm

Aren't those engines prone to EGR cooler faults?

Gwynston · 28-03-2017 3:18pm

EGR cooler rings a bell, but I haven't spoken to the garage in detail myself, so will do so when we go back.

As for 2nd hand:
Funnily enough, as they handed over the keys to a nice new 171 Mk VII Golf 1.6 TDi with lots of toys as a loner, they said to my wife, "We offer trade-in deals, if you're interested in this newer model."

benny79 · 28-03-2017 4:50pm

Stallingrad wrote: »

Is it possible that these are typical VW failures and that would have happened with or without the software update? Just an unhappy coincidence?

I dont believe in coincidences especially were VW are concerned and the update thats why Im over the moon I decided not to get mine done.. As someone pointed out if its not broke dont fix it..

knipex · 28-03-2017 5:06pm

bear1 wrote: »

Aren't those engines prone to EGR cooler faults?

At what mileage ??

I know 4 of these engines with 250K + km.. The highest one had 350k km

None needed anything but standard service and timing belts. (I lie one needed an air-con compressor at 200k km)

bear1 · 28-03-2017 5:30pm

knipex wrote: »

At what mileage ??

I know 4 of these engines with 250K + km.. The highest one had 350k km

None needed anything but standard service and timing belts. (I lie one needed an air-con compressor at 200k km)

No idea but I've read that they have issues with the egr cooler.
Think it's particular to the 1.6 tdi

Micky 32 · 28-03-2017 6:16pm

I heard today someone presented their Audi for the NCT and they refused to test it without proof/letter the emissions fix was done!

Henry Ford III · 28-03-2017 6:27pm

Micky 32 wrote: »

I heard today someone presented their Audi for the NCT and they refused to test it without proof/letter the emissions fix was done!

If that's true (I'm sceptical tbh) it'll change things.

Frankie Lee · 28-03-2017 6:52pm

Stallingrad wrote: »

Is it possible that these are typical VW failures and that would have happened with or without the software update? Just an unhappy coincidence?

It is a case that they give a lot of trouble regardless but the dealers have leeway with goodwill after the software update has been done or so I've heard. VW Ireland don't want any extra bad press.

colm_mcm · 28-03-2017 7:33pm

Would be very unusual to refuse to test the car without letting the person know in advance that they would need to have the letter with them.

Mooooo · 28-03-2017 7:36pm

Tell them to test it and see. If they can't check for it they can feck off

bazz26 · 28-03-2017 7:46pm

Sounds like a bar stool story to me.

Atlantic Dawn · 28-03-2017 7:59pm

Micky 32 wrote: »

I heard today someone presented their Audi for the NCT and they refused to test it without proof/letter the emissions fix was done!

They don't and never have measured diesel emissions at the NCT so there's no way they would know either way, fake news is what that is :pac:

ml100 · 28-03-2017 9:11pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

They don't and never have measured diesel emissions at the NCT so there's no way they would know either way, fake news is what that is :pac:

Yeah, remove the dpf and they can't tell don't get a sw update and fail, sounds like fake news alright

Dinging · 29-03-2017 9:24am

I'm due NCT on a VW CC 2.0l bluemotion next week. I am also due the software upgrade, I have the letter but it won't be happening while I own the car...ever. I will confirm if I am asked about the upgrade at the NCT but I would be confident this is fake news.

zilog_jones · 29-03-2017 11:36am

The NCT doesn't test for NOx emissions, so why should they care? Sounds ridiculous.

I don't think I could ever recommend a VAG car to anyone with all this bullshít surrounding the recall and general deception.

Micky 32 · 29-03-2017 11:37am

I really hope it's fake news and crossed wires i'm hearing and my apologies if it is. But it wouldn't surprise me in this nanny state.

Micky 32 · 29-03-2017 11:39am

zilog_jones wrote: »

The NCT doesn't test for NOx emissions, so why should they care? Sounds ridiculous.

I don't think I could ever recommend a VAG car to anyone with all this bullshít surrounding the recall and general deception.

I'm sure the minister for the enviroment would care especially since nox is bad for the lungs.

Toyotafanboi · 29-03-2017 3:14pm

It's definitely fake news. We'd put 3-4 VW's a week through the NCT and this has literally never came up.

Volkswagen do offer certification to say the car has been amended but it's of no interest to the NCT.

zilog_jones · 29-03-2017 3:58pm

Micky 32 wrote: »

I'm sure the minister for the enviroment would care especially since nox is bad for the lungs.

I'd be all for introducing NOx testing in the NCT, but a piece of paper from VW proves nothing. Independent tests have shown the recall changes still make no difference with emissions in real world driving (see my post earlier in the thread). All VW were required to do was make the cars pass the NEDC tests without obvious "defeat device" software - they don't care about anything else.

Gwynston · 31-03-2017 3:55pm

Just spoke to the VW service manager who has been fixing our 2011 Mk VI 1.6 TDi Golf that failed on my wife last weekend.

He confirmed it's the EGR Cooler that failed, which needed a whole new EGR assembly. I asked him if it was as a result of Emissions Update and he said "it was unlikely". When I asked if that is then a common fault with that engine he said he wouldn't call it common, but they have seen it on a few cars.

When I asked why it was that VW agreed to cover most of the cost (and a courtesy car for my wife), he said VW are typically invoking their "good will" policy on customers who have taken their cars in for the update. So clearly they're trying to avoid bad press from anyone who's done it.

He said unless you give these engines a good boot at motorway speeds at least once a week, they're likely to encounter EGR problems, despite the fact that they have a built-in system that is intended to run the engine high, as necessary. He suggested going a few miles regularly in 4th gear at over 2,500 revs.

I can't image what that will do for our mpg... :rolleyes:

bear1 · 31-03-2017 4:14pm

bear1 wrote: »

Aren't those engines prone to EGR cooler faults?

knipex wrote: »

At what mileage ??

I know 4 of these engines with 250K + km.. The highest one had 350k km

None needed anything but standard service and timing belts. (I lie one needed an air-con compressor at 200k km)

bear1 wrote: »

No idea but I've read that they have issues with the egr cooler.
Think it's particular to the 1.6 tdi

Gwynston wrote: »

Just spoke to the VW service manager who has been fixing our 2011 Mk VI 1.6 TDi Golf that failed on my wife last weekend.

He confirmed it's the EGR Cooler that failed, which needed a whole new EGR assembly. I asked him if it was as a result of Emissions Update and he said "it was unlikely". When I asked if that is then a common fault with that engine he said he wouldn't call it common, but they have seen it on a few cars.

When I asked why it was that VW agreed to cover most of the cost (and a courtesy car for my wife), he said VW are typically invoking their "good will" policy on customers who have taken their cars in for the update. So clearly they're trying to avoid bad press from anyone who's done it.

He said unless you give these engines a good boot at motorway speeds at least once a week, they're likely to encounter EGR problems, despite the fact that they have a built-in system that is intended to run the engine high, as necessary. He suggested going a few miles regularly in 4th gear at over 2,500 revs.

I can't image what that will do for our mpg... :rolleyes:

:cool:

Good result though and at least they are putting it right.

Nonoperational · 31-03-2017 9:17pm

Diesels are meant to be driven. A motorway blast is a fair recommendation.

Micky 32 · 01-04-2017 7:34pm

My EGR failed despite being driven lively. They are a common fault and they will all fail eventually regardless how you drive, still mine lasted nearly 100k miles.

shar01 · 02-04-2017 9:52am

Micky 32 wrote: »

My EGR failed despite being driven lively. They are a common fault and they will all fail eventually regardless how you drive, still mine lasted nearly 100k miles.

Same here (although it's a Seat Ibiza 1.2 TDI CR REF S.E.). Failed without warning last November. About 210,000 km done - mainly motorway driving.

But in relation to the emissions update, I had mine done two weeks ago. Afterwards I noticed that the gear change indicator was recommending gear changes at too low a speed or too low revs. The chap that services my car took it for a spin and confirmed same. I've been ignoring the indicator since.

I emailed Seat last week to bring it to their attention. So so much for them saying I wouldn't notice any changes :rolleyes:

(BTW, I know fcek all about engines apart from where the main fluids go but like many posting here, I "know" my car)

03-04-2017 1:16am

shar01 wrote: »

Micky 32 wrote: »

My EGR failed despite being driven lively. They are a common fault and they will all fail eventually regardless how you drive, still mine lasted nearly 100k miles.

Same here (although it's a Seat Ibiza 1.2 TDI CR REF S.E.). Failed without warning last November. About 210,000 km done - mainly motorway driving.

But in relation to the emissions update, I had mine done two weeks ago. Afterwards I noticed that the gear change indicator was recommending gear changes at too low a speed or too low revs. The chap that services my car took it for a spin and confirmed same. I've been ignoring the indicator since.

I emailed Seat last week to bring it to their attention. So so much for them saying I wouldn't notice any changes :rolleyes:

(BTW, I know fcek all about engines apart from where the main fluids go but like many posting here, I "know" my car)

1.2 ?
Werent the emission updates only needed for the 1.6 s and the 2.0s

99nsr125 · 03-04-2017 2:38am

KCross wrote: »

My understanding is that they broke a law in the US hence the massive compensation over there.

Since we (in the EU) dont track/test the same emissions as the US no law was actually broken here, hence no compensation. The fix here is just to be seen to be good and taking responsibility but legally they didnt have to do it.... at least thats how I understood it.

I lack legal standing on this issue but VW are in breach of contract

Like a new car that's been delivered damaged you can reject the
car as not being of merchantable quality and it can never be "repaired"
as it will always represent a modification from advertised technical specifications.

You can bet some other solicitor or barrister somewhere has had their
car bought back at a premium on condition of confidentiality

Toyotafanboi · 03-04-2017 7:37am

9935452 wrote: »

1.2 ?
Werent the emission updates only needed for the 1.6 s and the 2.0s

1.2, 1.4, 1.6, 2.0 and some 3.0.

Henry Ford III · 03-04-2017 11:15am

99nsr125 wrote: »

I lack legal standing on this issue but VW are in breach of contract

Like a new car that's been delivered damaged you can reject the
car as not being of merchantable quality and it can never be "repaired"
as it will always represent a modification from advertised technical specifications.

You can bet some other solicitor or barrister somewhere has had their
car bought back at a premium on condition of confidentiality

I suspect had that been possible VW dealers would be awash with cars that had been rejected. The customers simply can't be happy, and this is turning into a wee bit of a fiasco.

VW emissions software update - disaster

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