New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

eagle eye · 04-02-2019 5:47pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

Kyle Juszczyk is a better FB. In 2018 he had 5 times the receiving yards and 4 times the rushing yards, while still doing the bread and butter of the FB position.

Juszcyk gets more use as a rusher and receiver in a bad team. When he was with the Ravens he was used for a time as a third down back, a position he also gets used in as a 49er quite frequently.

He isn't in the same hemisphere as Develin as a complete full back.

ELM327 · 04-02-2019 5:52pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

That’s like saying you shouldn’t include Cam Newtons running ability in assessing him because your belief is that the main criteria for a QB is throwing or similarly excluding the catching ability of Bell when ranking him as a RB.

More than fan bias, I’d wager you haven’t watched much of Juszczyk in the last 2 years. He can block in both pass and run but also offers so much more on top of that.

I saw a lot of him with the Ravens, not so much since his move to the bay area admittedly. He's not in Develin's league. He's a good fullback and arguably one of the best but not on the same tier as develin.

Go back and look at all the NE rushing attempts late this year and you'll find that the vast majority of successful rushing plays are behind a develin (and/or gronk) block.

Foxtrol · 04-02-2019 5:54pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Juszcyk gets more use as a rusher and receiver in a bad team. When he was with the Ravens he was used for a time as a third down back, a position he also gets used in as a 49er quite frequently.

He isn't in the same hemisphere as Develin as a complete full back.

A complete full back that basically only blocks?

That sounds much more like one dimensional to me.

eagle eye · 04-02-2019 6:04pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

A complete full back that basically only blocks?

That sounds much more like one dimensional to me.

He had 61 receiving yards, most of those catches for first downs. He had 8 rushing yards from 6 attempts which resulted in 4 touchdowns this past regular season. His run blocking is far better than any other back in the league and his pass blocking is quite good too.

ELM327 · 04-02-2019 6:07pm

It's the run blocking and short yardage runs that does it for me.

Foxtrol · 04-02-2019 6:13pm

eagle eye wrote: »

He had 61 receiving yards, most of those catches for first downs. He had 8 rushing yards from 6 attempts which resulted in 4 touchdowns this past regular season. His run blocking is far better than any other back in the league and his pass blocking is quite good too.

And those stats make him look extremely one dimensional when you compare them to Juice, who had 324 yards from 30 receptions and 30 yards from 8 rush attempts.

Foxtrol · 04-02-2019 6:14pm

ELM327 wrote: »

I saw a lot of him with the Ravens, not so much since his move to the bay area admittedly. He's not in Develin's league. He's a good fullback and arguably one of the best but not on the same tier as develin.

Go back and look at all the NE rushing attempts late this year and you'll find that the vast majority of successful rushing plays are behind a develin (and/or gronk) block.

NE and the 49ers have very different blocking and running schemes and generally use their full backs in very different ways.

I think Juice has the skillset to be successful doing what the Patriots require much more than Develin would have success doing what the 49ers want from the position.

It is only day 1 of the off season so I don’t have much interest in going further down the rabbit hole of a full back ranking discussion.

I think you’re flat out wrong saying there’s any tier/hemisphere between them but we can agree to disagree.

PhuckHugh2 · 04-02-2019 6:21pm

Id take Juszczyk over Develin all day every day. Granted both quality players but Juszczyk edges it for me. To say that Develin is on a different hemisphere is flat out wrong.

If i could choose one over the other i would be taking Juszczyk but i could see why people prefer Develin. Both great players in fairness.

eagle eye · 04-02-2019 6:37pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

And those stats make him look extremely one dimensional when you compare them to Juice, who had 324 yards from 30 receptions and 30 yards from 8 rush attempts.

He played running back for the 49ers, third down back as well. He does very little full back work but is called a full back. I'm sure Develin could do what he does if he had the opportunity but the Patriots don't need him to do that stuff.

As far as full back work is concerned there is no comparison between the two, Develin is miles ahead.

PhuckHugh2 · 04-02-2019 7:08pm

eagle eye wrote: »

He played running back for the 49ers, third down back as well. He does very little full back work but is called a full back. I'm sure Develin could do what he does if he had the opportunity but the Patriots don't need him to do that stuff.

As far as full back work is concerned there is no comparison between the two, Develin is miles ahead.

That's fine that is your opinion. I'd be of a different opinion so we can agree to disagree.

eagle eye · 04-02-2019 7:13pm

PhuckHugh2 wrote: »

That's fine that is your opinion. I'd be of a different opinion so we can agree to disagree.

Well that's fine but you are wrong.

PhuckHugh2 · 04-02-2019 7:14pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Well that's fine but you are wrong.

Again your opinion. We will have to agree to disagree on that point too

PhuckHugh · 05-02-2019 8:54am

I'd say Gronk is done - Sad, but a great way for him to go out. Bill is charged with finding his replacement but he has to get in a QB also --- Tom can do what he did this year for another year or two but the end is nigh.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero · 05-02-2019 9:52am

What a season, when you stand back and look what the Patriots did it really is incredible.
Losing Nate Solder, Butler, Amendola and Dion Lewis in FA, trading away Cooks, losing our 1st rounder Wynn to injury in pre-season, along with Edelman's suspension, Gronk's rapid receiving-game decay and then losing Josh Gordon. We also lost Matty P to the Lions and, as usual, having a tough schedule and drafting late. To cap that off every other Superbowl contending team brought in reinforcements, and some significantly so.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, this was Bill and Tom's biggest achievement. You could argue the 16-0 season and probably any of the first 3 Superbowls, but this for me tops them all. A 41 year old QB and 66 year old HC, 3rd Superbowl in a row and 6th ring, with what was their weakest Superbowl roster yet. When you put everything into perspective it's mind-blowing. The level of success is absolutely phenomenal.

What do we think will be the major focuses of the off-season? We still have an ageing squad outside of the the O-line, but I think with a few acquisitions there's no reason why can't repeat the success.
WR: We definitely need another WR. Tom essentially had 2 receiving targets outside of his RBs. Forget Josh Gordon, even if he returns he clearly can't be relied upon. We need someone to stretch the field and take the pressure off Edelman in the middle.
TE: I really hope Gronk returns for 1 last go. If he goes we'll have a gaping hole there that'll need to be immediately addressed.
LB: How BB got that group to perform at the level they did for the post-season is beyond me. Even still, they were arguably our weakest corps during the regular season. I think we need to dedicate a high draft pick to LB or else pick up a decent FA. Knowing BB, it'll be the latter.
DL: Resigning Flowers should be a priority, although I don't think we'll match what he'll get in FA. Apparently there's a good draft class coming through, and we do need at least 1 D-lineman, so this is where our 1st round pick will probably go.
RB and FB: We're fine here.
O-Line: We're fine here.
DBs: We're fine here, although they're definitely ageing. JC Jackson looks a stud, the 2 McCourtys were brilliant and we had the best CB in the league this season in Gilly.
QB: No need to draft a QB yet if Tom legitimately plans to keep going for another 3 seasons.
K and P: P is fine, but Gost doesn't fill me with confidence these days. Missed a XP in Superbowls vs the Falcons and Eagles, missed a crucial XP vs the Broncos in Champo game, and missed what could've been a crucial FG against the Rams. He'll probably be kept on, but I wouldn't be upset if he was let go. Too many big misses.

ELM327 · 05-02-2019 10:11am

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote: »

What a season, when you stand back and look what the Patriots did it really is incredible.
Losing Nate Solder, Butler, Amendola and Dion Lewis in FA, trading away Cooks, losing our 1st rounder Wynn to injury in pre-season, along with Edelman's suspension, Gronk's rapid receiving-game decay and then losing Josh Gordon. We also lost Matty P to the Lions and, as usual, having a tough schedule and drafting late. To cap that off every other Superbowl contending team brought in reinforcements, and some significantly so.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, this was Bill and Tom's biggest achievement. You could argue the 16-0 season and probably any of the first 3 Superbowls, but this for me tops them all. A 41 year old QB and 66 year old HC, 3rd Superbowl in a row and 6th ring, with what was their weakest Superbowl roster yet. When you put everything into perspective it's mind-blowing. The level of success is absolutely phenomenal.

What do we think will be the major focuses of the off-season? We still have an ageing squad outside of the the O-line, but I think with a few acquisitions there's no reason why can't repeat the success.
WR: We definitely need another WR. Tom essentially had 2 receiving targets outside of his RBs. Forget Josh Gordon, even if he returns he clearly can't be relied upon. We need someone to stretch the field and take the pressure off Edelman in the middle.
TE: I really hope Gronk returns for 1 last go. If he goes we'll have a gaping hole there that'll need to be immediately addressed.
LB: How BB got that group to perform at the level they did for the post-season is beyond me. Even still, they were arguably our weakest corps during the regular season. I think we need to dedicate a high draft pick to LB or else pick up a decent FA. Knowing BB, it'll be the latter.
DL: Resigning Flowers should be a priority, although I don't think we'll match what he'll get in FA. Apparently there's a good draft class coming through, and we do need at least 1 D-lineman, so this is where our 1st round pick will probably go.
RB and FB: We're fine here.
O-Line: We're fine here.
DBs: We're fine here, although they're definitely ageing. JC Jackson looks a stud, the 2 McCourtys were brilliant and we had the best CB in the league this season in Gilly.
QB: No need to draft a QB yet if Tom legitimately plans to keep going for another 3 seasons.
K and P: P is fine, but Gost doesn't fill me with confidence these days. Missed a XP in Superbowls vs the Falcons and Eagles, missed a crucial XP vs the Broncos in Champo game, and missed what could've been a crucial FG against the Rams. He'll probably be kept on, but I wouldn't be upset if he was let go. Too many big misses.

Agreed, this is probably the biggest "achievement" superbowl win when you look at the quality of some of the team on paper.

Regarding where we go from here, unless there's an outstanding development prospect in the late first round (a la Aaron Rodgers) I think we should be spending most of the picks on defense. Chung and Gilmore had a great year and are indispensible (well, as close as any non Brady NE player gets to that mark)

Drafting a QB and the timeline should be based on how long Brady will stay around. If it's one more year then draft one now, but other than that I would hold off.

Gronk is done. Unfortunately. We need a replacement , and for me that will be two players. A WR with catch in traffic ability, and a good blocking TE.

Are any of our RBs FA this year? If we can hold onto that corps, hold the O line and D line together with improvements in the secondary, address the WR+Gronk issue , there's no reason we can't have another go at a ring next year.

bruschi · 05-02-2019 10:12am

That was an unbelievable win. Tell me before the game we'd only score 13 and I'd cry my eyes out. I didnt think we'd put on a run like we did in the post season. The regular season form showed no sign of a defence that could shut out like they did. The offence didnt show a running game that would dominate. Fair play to Eagle Eye, he called it that he felt something special in this side. I would never have lost faith and always felt this team could do it, been there and know what to do so whilst I didnt expect it, I'm not surprised they did it.

It really was a defensive win. No one will dispute that. Brady was very average, but when needed, he made the big play drive to get the winning TD. I cold go through all the defence and what they did to get that win. Edelman too deserves immense credit. Really is a clutch player and is there when it matters.

6 rings for Brady. Unreal.

el Fenomeno · 05-02-2019 10:19am

The Patriots will have a massive (figuratively and literally) hole in their O-line if Brown decides to test Free Agency which he likely will. He's been on a 7th Round rookie contract the past 4 years and will want to get paid. Proved himself to be an excellent LT this season, so someone will give him upper-tier money.

I wouldn't be comfortable with LaAdrian Waddle taking the reigns - he's a free agent himself this year. And there's no guarantee Isaiah Wynn will come back strong from his injury and jump into a tackle position either.

spiderdan · 05-02-2019 11:39am

Sensational achievement it has to be the best when you take everything into consideration and talent level on the roster. One area that I'm very interested in is the DC position moving forward, Brian Flores has been unbelievable as a play caller especially in the playoffs. It's pretty obvious Bill still dictates the game plan and much of what happens in game but Flores still calls the plays i.e Gilmore's interception was a outside blitz called by Flores. I'm not questioning Bills fingerprints all over this win but can't help think what would the outcome have been if Patricia there last years Super Bowl was a **** show on D. Are we all giving Bill too much credit for the win and not enough to Flores. I guess we'll never know but its some turnaround on D from the past couple of super bowl appearances. Also Hightower, Van Noy, Gilmore were phenomenal, I think having them and many others healthy was the real difference this year.

ELM327 · 05-02-2019 11:41am

spiderdan wrote: »

Sensational achievement it has to be the best when you take everything into consideration and talent level on the roster. One area that I'm very interested in is the DC position moving forward, Brian Flores has been unbelievable as a play caller especially in the playoffs. It's pretty obvious Bill still dictates the game plan and much of what happens in game but Flores still calls the plays i.e Gilmore's interception was a outside blitz called by Flores. I'm not questioning Bills fingerprints all over this win but can't help think what would the outcome have been if Patricia there last years Super Bowl was a **** show on D. Are we all giving Bill too much credit for the win and not enough to Flores. I guess we'll never know but its some turnaround on D from the past couple of super bowl appearances. Also Hightower, Van Noy, Gilmore were phenomenal, I think having them and many others healthy was the real difference this year.

I thought Patricia was a great defensive coach, but much better on the front 7. Our secondary was shockingly bad at times under him and I agree there has been a marked improvement especially at crunch time in the postseason. Not surprised he's getting a HC job (flores).

Masked Man · 05-02-2019 1:18pm

Kind of ironic that we were following Patricia's blueprint for the Rams.

05-02-2019 3:12pm

Need to get a present for a Pats fan, maybe €100 to €150.

Is there anything like a Pats fan magazine or periodical that I could pay for a subscription?

Failing that, is there a store in NYC? He's based there so he could go in for sizing etc.

eagle eye · 05-02-2019 3:16pm

I had a gut feeling we were going to do it Midway through the season. I think we are using fitness science to get to the playoffs in good shape and I feel that showed in the playoffs.
If you remember back when we were giving out at one stage about the DBs, at another stage about the front 7, at another time about the offensive line, and about our receivers, even Brady was being mooteed as done. I think we are winding down the different players at different times to give their bodies a rest. Then we take a double bye week, remember how bad we were against the Titans, and come playoff time we are in better shape physically than everybody else.
I've no proof of that of course but I'll expect to read all about it when one of the holy Trinity retires.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 06-02-2019 11:33am

The weekend got me thinking about these ads again, classic!

AbusesToilets · 06-02-2019 4:48pm

https://vimeo.com/315647726

Inside the NFL SB edition

Hazys · 07-02-2019 12:56am

AbusesToilets wrote: »

https://vimeo.com/315647726

Inside the NFL SB edition

Crazy that Brady had to convince BB and Josh to kick the game clinching FG.

Ghosts kicks in this game we’re s bit shaky, I wouldn’t be surprised if BB had lost confidence in him at that point.

Long term I don’t see us resigning Ghost unless he takes a drastic pay cut and if he does I think he’ll have competition in training camp.

Ghost is a legend but that could have been his last game as a Patriot

ScrubsfanChris · 13-02-2019 9:33pm

1hr 20min season review:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhCLQNYowcE

Try to contain smug face, plenty of "Is it the end of the Patriots?" discussion

j8wk2feszrnpao · 14-02-2019 9:20am

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

plenty of "Is it the end of the Patriots?" discussion

Nick Wright is just another idiot who wants to be the first to say "I told you so". Remember Trent Dilfer "They're not good anymore" back in 2014? Rob Parker's hatred towards Brady/Patriots is deranged; and they keep making him look a fool.

It's weird that they keep getting airtime when you can be that wrong, but it's their way of appealing to the rabid population waiting for the Pats era to end.

22-02-2019 8:29pm

More messing with balls

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/sports/robert-kraft-jupiter-orchids-arrest.html?action=click&contentCollection=Magazine&region=Footer&module=WhatsNext&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&moduleDetail=undefined&pgtype=Multimedia

Mr. Guappa · 22-02-2019 9:48pm

The Pats get 4 compensatory picks in the draft. 2 third rounders, a sixth and a seventh.

Clareman · 23-02-2019 12:56pm

glasso wrote: »

More messing with balls

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/sports/robert-kraft-jupiter-orchids-arrest.html?action=click&contentCollection=Magazine&region=Footer&module=WhatsNext&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&moduleDetail=undefined&pgtype=Multimedia

Goodell already has TB12 lined up for a 4 game suspension because of this

New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

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