Fire at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris

Franz Von Peppercorn · 16-04-2019 7:43pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

What part of yesterday were you not following. The GPO was burned to bits in 1916, the Four Courts in 1922.

So your point here is that stuff burns down sometimes. Good man.

It’s not an argument that makes any sense but your grammar was ok.

buried · 16-04-2019 7:47pm

quodec wrote: »

They've done a hell of a job on the rebuild though! The before and after photos of St Mels are amazing. I'd say some of the specialists who helped there could well be required in Paris.

I know some of the young lads who did the re-build on St.Mels. They got work through that disaster at a time no major stone work was being done whatsoever in this country and now those lads love the craft because of it. They should be signed up for it. They did fantastic work.

4ensic15 · 16-04-2019 7:50pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

That wasn't the question i asked though was it?

The two buildings are already rebuilt from ruins. Another burning is not going to be any worse than before. Many fine buildings were deliberately destroyed and many others neglected to the point of ruin. Just because some people saw the building in a movie they are shedding crocodile tears.

MrMusician18 · 16-04-2019 8:00pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

St mel's Cathedral in Longford burned down and there was no great outpouring of grief in ireland or anywhere else. A burned cathedral is just that, a burned cathedral.

You're obviously not from Longford. From people I know from the town, there was a real sadness when their cathedral burned down.

4ensic15 · 16-04-2019 8:01pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

You're obviously not from Longford. From people I know from the town, there was a real sadness when their cathedral burned down.

Locals will be sad if any building burns.

MrMusician18 · 16-04-2019 8:04pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

Locals will be sad if any building burns.

You said there was no outpouring of grief. You were wrong, there was.

kateee47298 · 16-04-2019 8:05pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

St mel's Cathedral in Longford burned down and there was no great outpouring of grief in ireland or anywhere else. A burned cathedral is just that, a burned cathedral.

Fair but Notre Dame is one of the most famous buildings in Paris, it means a lot to the French. I don't think it's quite the same as a cathedral in Longford...

4ensic15 · 16-04-2019 8:05pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

You said there was no outpouring of grief. You were wrong, there was.

Sadness is not an outpouring of grief.

MadYaker · 16-04-2019 8:12pm

It seems most of the stain glass was destroyed but it should be fully repairable. Going to take years though and a lot of $$$

B0jangles · 16-04-2019 8:14pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I see Macron has vowed to rebuild within 5 years.

https://f7td5.app.goo.gl/4sqwB

I heard that and thought that has to be a mistranslation, but no, apparently he really thinks it can be done and done well in 5 years.

That's sounds insane to me. I would have estimated that it'd take 5 years just to plan the project - to survey the rest of the building for any hidden damage, to identify and source the various materials and experts needed for each element that's been lost.

Hopefully the promise will be put down as a heat of the moment thing and he will let it slide. I'd hate for this to turn into a massive rush job just to satisfy a politician's ego and desire to still be in power for the ribbon-cutting ceremony

Timberrrrrrrr · 16-04-2019 8:22pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

The two buildings are already rebuilt from ruins. Another burning is not going to be any worse than before. Many fine buildings were deliberately destroyed and many others neglected to the point of ruin. Just because some people saw the building in a movie they are shedding crocodile tears.

The point i am making (and seems to have gone over your head) is thatbif they burned down tomorrow they woukd be rebuilt!

Some people just have no interest or love of history i suppose.

vargoo · 16-04-2019 8:23pm

Why is this going to cost billions to rebuild?

Longford was 30 million.

vargoo · 16-04-2019 8:24pm

B0jangles wrote: »

That's sounds insane to me. I would have estimated that it'd take 5 years just to plan the project - to survey the rest of the building for any hidden damage, to identify and source the various materials and experts needed for each element that's been lost.

(

The one in longford was 5 years.

Edgware · 16-04-2019 8:26pm

vargoo wrote: »

The one in longford was 5 years.

That was because they had to keep replacing the copper and lead piping

Junkyard Tom · 16-04-2019 8:29pm

A few questions for those in the know:

1. Will the new roof beams be made of wood?
2. Maybe steel clad in wood?
3. Will they install a sprinkler system?

batgoat · 16-04-2019 8:30pm

vargoo wrote: »

Why is this going to cost billions to rebuild?

Longford was 30 million.

If they want to replicate it precisely, it will cost billions. Longford Cathedral is tiny in contrast to it and far less complex a structure. So it's hardly comparing like with like.

4ensic15 · 16-04-2019 8:33pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

The point i am making (and seems to have gone over your head) is thatbif they burned down tomorrow they woukd be rebuilt!

Some people just have no interest or love of history i suppose.

Some people don't know much history it seems. They burned before and were not re-instated. New buildings went up in place of what was there before, with the exception of the facades. New wine in old bottles.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 16-04-2019 8:44pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

Some people don't know much history it seems. They burned before and were not re-instated. New buildings went up in place of what was there before, with the exception of the facades. New wine in old bottles.

What burned and wasn’t reinstated? What new buildings went up?

Every building that survives the guts of a thousands years will have some restoration work done.

jimbobaloobob · 16-04-2019 8:45pm

€600,000,000 already pledged. It sits uncomfortable with me how quick big organisations are to pledge to restore a building when you think of some of the tragedies and atrocities like Darfur, Aleppo, Ethiopia, Haiti to name just four that we hear all so regular in the news after their disasters.

iamwhoiam · 16-04-2019 9:08pm

jimbobaloobob wrote: »

€600,000,000 already pledged. It sits uncomfortable with me how quick big organisations are to pledge to restore a building when you think of some of the tragedies and atrocities like Darfur, Aleppo, Ethiopia, Haiti to name just four that we hear all so regular in the news after their disasters.

Charlie Hebdo
Bataclan
Nice
I am sure people needed huge support after these atrocities too

jimbobaloobob · 16-04-2019 9:16pm

For sure
I'm just making the point media is quick to point out whose going to make this right again and they are very quick to take the limelight.

Thargor · 16-04-2019 10:13pm

Paris is massive.

Spanish Eyes · 16-04-2019 10:16pm

jimbobaloobob wrote: »

€600,000,000 already pledged. It sits uncomfortable with me how quick big organisations are to pledge to restore a building when you think of some of the tragedies and atrocities like Darfur, Aleppo, Ethiopia, Haiti to name just four that we hear all so regular in the news after their disasters.

How do you know that they haven't contributed?

An issue like ND is easy to support for cultural reasons and have your name behind it. But if you plaster your name all over other tragedies, you will be forever castigated.

They cannot win.

Mearings · 16-04-2019 10:19pm

Raise High the Roof Beams, Carpenters.

rossie1977 · 16-04-2019 10:22pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

St mel's Cathedral in Longford burned down and there was no great outpouring of grief in ireland or anywhere else. A burned cathedral is just that, a burned cathedral.

Around the local area there was which is the reason they were able to raise so much money and basically rebuild the entire structure from ground up in 5 years.

Obviously St Mel's isn't as well known as Notre Dame which is probably most famous church in the world.

batgoat wrote: »

If they want to replicate it precisely, it will cost billions. Longford Cathedral is tiny in contrast to it and far less complex a structure. So it's hardly comparing like with like.

Smaller sure but the interior of Longford was completely destroyed which isn't the case with Notre Dame. I think 5 years that it can reopen to the public is an achievable timeline. Obviously you don't need the roof to be fully completed before reopening.

La Sagrada Familia is undergoing construction for last 100+ years and it's open to the public

Spanish Eyes · 16-04-2019 10:25pm

I think this will turn out to be another Sagrada Familia.

How many years are they restoring that now? Saw it from the outside because the Q was just too long to go in, and anyway I could see inside on t'internet anyway. Sometimes outside view is just marvellous and it is all we need. Felt the same when I saw the crowds Queuing in Seville for the Cathedral, and so many other places that required a hike up a million steps etc.

Just me I suppose, but I got the majesty of so many places from outside only.

fryup · 16-04-2019 10:28pm

am i right in saying visitors were charged for going into ND?

if so surely they made enough over the years to pay for this reconstruction?

riffmongous · 16-04-2019 10:29pm

B0jangles wrote: »

I heard that and thought that has to be a mistranslation, but no, apparently he really thinks it can be done and done well in 5 years.

That's sounds insane to me. I would have estimated that it'd take 5 years just to plan the project - to survey the rest of the building for any hidden damage, to identify and source the various materials and experts needed for each element that's been lost.

Hopefully the promise will be put down as a heat of the moment thing and he will let it slide. I'd hate for this to turn into a massive rush job just to satisfy a politician's ego and desire to still be in power for the ribbon-cutting ceremony

The Stephansdom in Vienna was restored in 7 years after a fire at the end of WW2, where there's a will there's a way

10000maniacs · 16-04-2019 10:34pm

Thargor wrote: »

Paris is massive.

And flat. Where are all the skyscrapers?

Thargor · 16-04-2019 10:38pm

Theres a height restriction in their planning, except they have a skyline worth protecting unlike Dublins pointless sprawl. You can see a load of skyscrapers over in their financial district similar to the City in London from any high point though.

rossie1977 · 16-04-2019 10:41pm

10000maniacs wrote: »

And flat. Where are all the skyscrapers?

All in same area at La Defense

Tour Montparnasse stands completely alone at 689 foot

beautiful-paris-afternoon-cityscape-seen-450w-367138088.jpg

The Rape of Lucretia · 16-04-2019 10:47pm

Its sorta Macron's Reichstag fire, and Falklands War, in one.

The rebuild being very quick is essential for the manoeuvre to pay off : distracting from the gilets jaunes, taking the spotlight away from him personally, uniting France behind a sense of nation and purpose to restore its glory, if not economically, then culturally, and allowing him to be seen as a leader, statesman, and the saying the right thing with gravitas, slick words, and a sincerity so faked you are distracted from its fakeness as you marvel at the quality of his acting of that sincerity.
Its unveiling will be schedulable wherever in the middle of his second term, at a moment that he needs it to play the same image boost/distract game again.

He is a smart strategist.

Spanish Eyes · 16-04-2019 10:58pm

Will be a French issue only tomorrow now that the facade and interior has not been totally destroyed.

The era of instant news is upon us. Notre Dame is over for most of us now.

Next!

emilymemily · 16-04-2019 11:01pm

jimbobaloobob wrote: »

€600,000,000 already pledged. It sits uncomfortable with me how quick big organisations are to pledge to restore a building when you think of some of the tragedies and atrocities like Darfur, Aleppo, Ethiopia, Haiti to name just four that we hear all so regular in the news after their disasters.

Money sent to these countries isnt used in the correct way, think of the billions that has been raised for parts of Africa over the last 20 - 30 years and theyre still poverty stricken countries with starvation, their education system is run by European volunteers that donate thousands to go over and still basic literacy skills are lacking among most of the population.
The money gets eaten up by corrupt governments, organizations and charities.

Spanish Eyes · 16-04-2019 11:04pm

emilymemily wrote: »

Money sent to these countries isnt used in the correct way, think of the billions that has been raised for parts of Africa over the last 20 - 30 years and theyre still poverty stricken countries with starvation, their education system is run by European volunteers that donate thousands to go over and still basic literacy skills are lacking among most of the population.
The money gets eaten up by corrupt governments, organizations and charities.

Eh, leaving aside charitable donations we here in Ireland are contributing the bones of E750 million per annum to Foreign Aid.

But anyway, there are still ads out there looking for more for their charities. I am baffled by that, but I suppose Empires need building.

hmmm · 16-04-2019 11:06pm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Its sorta Macron's Reichstag fire, and Falklands War, in one.

I don't much like the Reichstag reference because it makes it sound like he engineered this - and we've enough bull**** conspiracy theories already.

But the rest of the post I agree with - it suits him very well to have a grand project which France can unify behind, and it will be very difficult for any of his political opponents to find fault. France tends to do big arty projects very well.

The Rape of Lucretia · 16-04-2019 11:14pm

hmmm wrote: »

I don't much like the Reichstag reference because it makes it sound like he engineered this

No it doesnt. An lone arsonist started that one, although the chance opportunity was seized upon for exploitation.

Roger_007 · 16-04-2019 11:15pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Eh, leaving aside charitable donations we here in Ireland are contributing the bones of E750 million per annum to Foreign Aid.

But anyway, there are still ads out there looking for more for their charities. I am baffled by that, but I suppose Empires need building.

Im a bit suspicious of the motivation behind some of the very large donations which have been promised. If it is just a genuine wish to help rebuild the cathedral, then the donations could have been made anonymously. Otherwise it looks like availing of a golden opportunity to get good publicity.

Spanish Eyes · 16-04-2019 11:17pm

Will be all forgotten now, and the chosen few will get the contracts.

Spanish Eyes · 16-04-2019 11:21pm

Roger_007 wrote: »

Im a bit suspicious of the motivation behind some of the very large donations which have been promised. If it is just a genuine wish to help rebuild the cathedral, then the donations could have been made anonymously. Otherwise it looks like availing of a golden opportunity to get good publicity.

Such is life. They will be remembered for protecting the heritage of France, but no one will remember a donation to Sudan or wherever, because it seems to end up in someone else's pocket and no improvement for that country.

Strange how threads morph, but anyway.

Richard Hillman · 16-04-2019 11:23pm

Hopefully all money from the EU refused. The rebuild should be funded privately only. I have seen far too many iconic structures scarred with EU flags outside.

Roger_007 · 16-04-2019 11:28pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Hopefully all money from the EU refused. The rebuild should be funded privately only. I have seen far too many iconic structures scarred with EU flags outside.

Yeah, it would be much more appropriate if they renamed it The L'Oreal Notre Dame or the Total Notre Dame when they rebuild it!

Skylinehead · 16-04-2019 11:41pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I think this will turn out to be another Sagrada Familia.

How many years are they restoring that now?

0. They haven't even finished building it!

Strumms · 16-04-2019 11:45pm

Roger_007 wrote: »

Im a bit suspicious of the motivation behind some of the very large donations which have been promised. If it is just a genuine wish to help rebuild the cathedral, then the donations could have been made anonymously. Otherwise it looks like availing of a golden opportunity to get good publicity.

Kinda agree with you, if your sole reason for making a donation is to help, just donate and help, then sit back, watch, enjoy the rebuilding even the satisfaction for contributing. But here we are, 2019 where the attention seeking is almost an acceptable artform and or competitive sport and the idea that you could do something AND shut the fuçk up is highly unlikely.

jimbobaloobob · 16-04-2019 11:45pm

emilymemily wrote: »

Money sent to these countries isnt used in the correct way, think of the billions that has been raised for parts of Africa over the last 20 - 30 years and theyre still poverty stricken countries with starvation, their education system is run by European volunteers that donate thousands to go over and still basic literacy skills are lacking among most of the population.
The money gets eaten up by corrupt governments, organizations and charities.

I agree, i was only making the point to highlight how quickly media picks up on the rescue or revival of a western tragedy as opposed to a conflict area of the world.

SEPT 23 1989 · 16-04-2019 11:48pm

The money that is being fired around is disturbing

I'm sure the peasants felt the same way when they started building it

vargoo · 16-04-2019 11:49pm

Money pledged, not given.

Is their no insurance?

gozunda · 16-04-2019 11:54pm

fryup wrote: »

am i right in saying visitors were charged for going into ND?

if so surely they made enough over the years to pay for this reconstruction?

Basic entry was free. Guided tours of the towers involved a fee. Though there were so many tourists visiting the church - you often ended up having to queue even if you're only heading their for a bit of contemplating or whatever...

The church itself was under much needed restoration when the fire started and much of that had been raised privately afaik.

vargoo wrote: »

Money pledged, not given.

Is their no insurance?

News reports today suggested that the Insurance companies were expecting the French government to pick up the tab. Not sure where the logic of that is tbh.

Edit:

It's this

The French state’s policy is to bear the cost of reconstruction of historical monuments such as Notre-Dame cathedral in the event of disasters.

https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/international/2019/04/16/523998.htm

Roger_007 · 16-04-2019 11:55pm

vargoo wrote: »

Money pledged, not given.

Is their no insurance?

Building insurance normally covers the cost of rebuilding or repair.
What insurance company would cover a building that could potentially cost billions to rebuild if it was damaged or destroyed?

vargoo · 16-04-2019 11:55pm

https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2019/04/after-fire-photos-inside-notre-dame-cathedral/587299/

Fire at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris

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