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Top Bankers looking for Bonuses back and 500k limit lifted

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2

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    #32
    Varik
    Registered Users Posts: 12,484 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    In another 10 years maybe. Last mess is only starting to correct over the last couple of years and there's still issue holding over due to the recession.

    High salaries and bonuses got us the top talent that made the mess in the first place.


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    #33
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    is_that_so wrote: »
    It was preferable to a banking system collapse. AIB will pay back all of its money as will BOI.

    And when they do....then they can look into increasing bonuses


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    #34
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    _blaaz wrote: »
    Whenever the banks pay back 100% on the money put in...then maybe think about more bonuses

    Bank of Ireland have done this.


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    #35
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,539 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Force Carrier wrote: »
    Capital for the transformation from bankruptcy which you were applauding them for.
    Which profit figures do you think are exceptional and on what management decisions or policies gave rise to those profits?

    I never said anything about exceptional profits.

    I am also not privy to management devious, so can’t answer that question.


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    #36
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    TuringBot47 wrote: »
    We pay €14 million a DAY in national debt interest, never mind paying off the principal.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-still-paying-14m-a-day-in-interest-on-national-debt-1.3860907
    That's mostly not banking, that is the day to day cash we had to borrow when the economy went off a cliff. Total banking debt will ultimately be down to Anglo. Sovereign debt is rarely paid off, it's either cancelled or more commonly just rolled over.


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    #37
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    kneemos wrote: »
    How hard is it to run a bank? I mean it's not new technology,it's been done now for hundreds of years.

    Agree, perhaps it's time to replace bankers with ai-autobots.

    Accountants are actually in a high-risk group of automation replacement within the next few years, afterall it's also mostly linear, data-fed, logical processes.

    Not as if it requires great compassion, x-factor levels of natural creativity or a sparkling personality.


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    #38
    Force Carrier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Force Carrier


    Captain Red Beard wrote: »
    I've seen no evidence of quality or talent.
    Allinall wrote: »
    I have.

    Both our main banks have been transformed from bankrupt basket cases to profit making entities, making decent returns for their shareholders.
    Allinall wrote: »
    I never said anything about exceptional profits.

    I am also not privy to management devious, so can’t answer that question.

    So you were wrong in telling Red Beard you had seen evidence of quality and talent.


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    #39
    paw patrol
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    Amirani wrote: »
    For state-controlled banks, sure, have a limit and disallow bonuses.

    But the State shouldn't prohibit people working in private industry from receiving bonuses. If they're so inherently bad, then they should be banned/taxed at 90% in all jobs.

    While I agree with you on Private entities but we clearly know from past experience some banks aren't really private entities when they're in the ****

    and that's the problem


    Allinall wrote: »
    I have.

    Both our main banks have been transformed from bankrupt basket cases to profit making entities, making decent returns for their shareholders.


    after they're losses were removed and entering an upswing in the western economies of the world due to start from less than rock bottom.

    A drunken sailor could achieve as much.


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    #40
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,539 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Berties_Horse wrote: »
    Naturally, when you have skin in the game.

    Well spotted.


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    #41
    corkboy38
    Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭corkboy38


    ****


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    #42
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,539 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Force Carrier wrote: »
    So you were wrong in telling Red Beard you had seen evidence of quality and talent.

    Results are evidence.


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    #43
    Force Carrier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Force Carrier


    Allinall wrote: »
    Results are evidence.

    Results of what? Declining profits?


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    #44
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    Allinall wrote: »
    Results are evidence.

    And setting aside €1 billion to pay fines is evidence that the "results" may have been rigged anyway.


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    #45
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,777 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    tibruit wrote: »
    That sounds a lot like what bankers were saying before 2008. If I remember correctly it went along the lines of "If you pay peanuts you get monkeys". The reality at that time was that bankers took risks to earn big bonuses. The reality now is that the financial institutions pushing to pay the biggest bonuses today will be the first to go under when the next bust arrives. History continually repeats itself and we never learn.:rolleyes:

    Well, we do learn. Banking today is very different than it was in 2007. Likewise banking then was different from 1928.

    With banking, people often tend to think of a few Hollywood movies, a select bunch of risk-taking flashy Wall Str investment banks and decide they represent an entire industry with 10's of millions of workers. It's a large industry, and whatever the industry, ultimately talent and skill has to be paid for


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    #46
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    No one can get a mortgage these days were told.

    I fail to see how we’re making the same mistakes.


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    #47
    SirGerryAdams
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 499 ✭✭SirGerryAdams


    NSAman wrote: »
    If you do not like the job leave and search your fortune somewhere else... simples.

    Same in RTE etc.etc....

    That' the thing. Anyone any good jump.


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    #48
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,539 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    No one can get a mortgage these days were told.

    I fail to see how we’re making the same mistakes.

    It’s an easy think to say for people who haven’t a clue.


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    #49
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    Is there any evidence that Ireland's banks were some hothouse of talent, innovation and genius back when they had uncapped remuneration and bonuses?

    All I can remember is customer rip-off scandal after scandal, writing off six figure debts for the likes of Charlie Haughey and Garret Fitzgerald (which is little different than a bribe, really) and overheating the economy with a rather unimaginative and obvious property bubble to cause the 2008 crash. If that's the sort of people and corporate culture that bonuses engender obviously we'd be much better off without them.


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    #50
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,674 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Lilian Howling Pavement wrote: »
    Why shouldn’t they be entitled to bonuses?

    Because they're based on the assumption that the only reason people do a good job is for money.

    Pay them proper salaries. Maybe including a commission component for people whose job is making sales that actually turn a higher than expected profit. No need for bonuses.


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    #51
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,777 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Because they're based on the assumption that the only reason people do a good job is for money.

    Pay them proper salaries. Maybe including a commission component for people whose job is making sales that actually turn a higher than expected profit. No need for bonuses.

    In general if there are competing banks or jobs that do pay significant bonuses, then in general talent will go there. At very high level it's not an issue to move abroad.


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    #52
    Balanadan
    Site Banned Posts: 725 ✭✭✭Balanadan


    I fail to see how Irish bankers would earn significant pay increases or bonuses when their performance is compared to their international counterparts. From a customer's point of view, interest rates on deposits are brutally low, interest rates on debt finance are brutally high, their charges are a disgrace, their customer service is a disgrace, their hands are tied in terms of lending restrictions because of their own incompetence, they have been hit with scandal after scandal, and they are generally anti-business.


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    #53
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Instead of more carrots I think we should have more sticks.


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    #54
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users Posts: 43,024 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Only if they agree to be tarred and feathered before they begin work every morning


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    #55
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    I might be after a few pints but my first inclination is that they should all be shot.


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    #56
    goose2005
    Registered Users Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    CrankyHaus wrote: »
    Is there any evidence that Ireland's banks were some hothouse of talent, innovation and genius back when they had uncapped remuneration and bonuses?

    All I can remember is customer rip-off scandal after scandal, writing off six figure debts for the likes of Charlie Haughey and Garret Fitzgerald (which is little different than a bribe, really) and overheating the economy with a rather unimaginative and obvious property bubble to cause the 2008 crash. If that's the sort of people and corporate culture that bonuses engender obviously we'd be much better off without them.

    isn't it weird the way all the talented and skilled people seem to be related to each other and all went to the same schools?


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    #57
    goose2005
    Registered Users Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Quality and talent costs money

    Executive salaries have massively increased over recent decades, while for regular employees they have barely budged.


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    #58
    twowheelsonly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,268 ✭✭✭twowheelsonly


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Quality and talent costs money

    And what would you consider 'money' ? €500k sounds fairly ok to me...
    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    In general if there are competing banks or jobs that do pay significant bonuses, then in general talent will go there. At very high level it's not an issue to move abroad.

    Then let them off and let the next generation of ambitious bankers move in and prove themselves. When they reach the top here they can head off and let the next gang in. Rinse and repeat. Keep it fresh at the top and competitive in the middle. Save millions in the meantime.


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    #59
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    Only if they agree to be tarred and feathered before they begin work every morning
    Would "stwiking them wuffly" do instead?


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    #60
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,777 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    goose2005 wrote: »
    Executive salaries have massively increased over recent decades, while for regular employees they have barely budged.

    Yup, ain't fair but it's life. Depends on which country of course, the US is obscene, whereas somewhere like Denmark is pretty much 4x (average exec earns 4x higher than lowest employee). The Swiss had a direct vote a while back to cap max executive salaries at 12x lowest employee and they voted not to cap it


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    #61
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    I think we should pay our regulators more.


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