Top Bankers looking for Bonuses back and 500k limit lifted

omega man

I understand the talent drain is in senior risk and compliance roles.
Since the crash these positions are critical and the best people for these jobs are leaving to join other non state influenced financial organisations. I imagine this will lead to problems beyond any state pay restrictions.
It’s a political hot potato for the government but they need to look at this objectively and in the interest of their share holdings.

valoren

omega man wrote: »

I understand the talent drain is in senior risk and compliance roles.
Since the crash these positions are critical and the best people for these jobs are leaving to join other non state influenced financial organisations. I imagine this will lead to problems beyond any state pay restrictions.
It’s a political hot potato for the government but they need to look at this objectively and in the interest of their share holdings.

Here's an idea. Why don't these business/MBA schools offer courses where students can learn not financial theory or definitions but they learn how to actually do these risk and compliance roles. The real nitty gritty stuff. That way you'd always have an assembly line of graduates who can actually do a specific job. If they can't secure a role then at least they have some tangible experience such as "I can oversee, monitor and risk manage an end of day process for an institutional bank" and not "I know what End of Day means".

Topgear on Dave

Sure, give the senior roles to grads. I can't see what could go wrong.

Dohnjoe

omega man wrote: »

I understand the talent drain is in senior risk and compliance roles.
Since the crash these positions are critical and the best people for these jobs are leaving to join other non state influenced financial organisations. I imagine this will lead to problems beyond any state pay restrictions.
It’s a political hot potato for the government but they need to look at this objectively and in the interest of their share holdings.

Risk and compliance headcount needs have increased dramatically, meaning there is greater demand - this is due to tighter regulations, having to combat more cybersecurity threats, increased checks and controls at every level

ArrBee

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I think we should pay our regulators more.

To attract some talent?


:cool:

Selenophile

Just like in any other industry (e.g. software), top money doesn't attract top talent, but the most greedy and most unscrupulous people.

In case of banking sector, considering effects of their actions to other industries and whole society, huge bonuses should be accompanied with draconian penalties for any risky or unfair business practices. At this moment, we have banks paying huge fines when caught red handed. They apologize, they pay, but we don't really see too many people going to jail.

With increased bonuses and no threat of prison sentences, individuals will be in fact stimulated to take risky moves and/or try other forms of criminal activity. These bring short term profit, and that's what affects annual bonuses.

Dohnjoe

Selenophile wrote: »

Just like in any other industry (e.g. software), top money doesn't attract top talent, but the most greedy and most unscrupulous people.

Depends on the industry perhaps. Nowadays performance is keenly followed and measured. Harder to "horse****" your way to the top. In most cases, especially in finance, need to have the ability to back it up

I work with some people who are literally freaks, they do 12/13 hour days, whilst taking overnight calls, making complex decisions in seconds that take "normal people" 15 to 30 mins just to process the info, handling tremendous amounts of pressure and stress

Selenophile

@Dohnjoe

I'm not saying money attracts lazy people. Neither I'm saying that it attracts ignorant folks. I'm saying it attracts greedy and unscrupulous. It doesn't depend on the industry. It can be anything, from medicine to financial services.

In your given example, a person can work 12/13 hours a day, and make a decision in a second, but that decision can be to make an extremely risky investment, approve bad loan with high interest, or whatever that can later have a terrible effect on many other people and businesses. Especially when high risk brings higher profit. They really can be geniuses, but these amounts of money usually attract "evil geniuses" as well.

And to avoid any misunderstandings, I'm not saying everyone in financial services are like that. But you know, preservation of polar bears doesn't attract people hungry for power and money.

Dohnjoe

Selenophile wrote: »

In your given example, a person can work 12/13 hours a day, and make a decision in a second, but that decision can be to make an extremely risky investment, approve bad loan with high interest, or whatever that can later have a terrible effect on many other people and businesses. Especially when high risk brings higher profit. They really can be geniuses, but these amounts of money usually attract "evil geniuses" as well.

And to avoid any misunderstandings, I'm not saying everyone in financial services are like that. But you know, preservation of polar bears doesn't attract people hungry for power and money.

Fair enough, but (especially in finance) high-level skill/talent/competence is very apparent when working in proximity.

champchamp

Wait, has the USC been removed? They can start asking for bonuses when the USC is gone...

I see sheep

If the Government gives in to these gangsters they're a disgrace

Franz Von Peppercorn II

kneemos wrote: »

How hard is it to run a bank? I mean it's not new technology,it's been done now for hundreds of years.

It’s not hard. Making money as a bank in good years is easy. Then you get your bonus. Making money in a bank in bad years is hard. But you get your bonus. Then the government bails you out. New bonuses.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Dohnjoe wrote: »

In general if there are competing banks or jobs that do pay significant bonuses, then in general talent will go there. At very high level it's not an issue to move abroad.

There’s no talent. Bankers are a rentier class who, because there’s a lot of money to be made in siphoning off money from the real economy in good times, make loads of money. Anybody could do it.

ClintPower

Do any of these people realise how inconsequential 500k is in the scheme of bank profits?

It's spare change.

People should be more outraged at the pathetic wages these profitable semi state banks pay their rank and file staff. It's amazing that mortgage applications are signed off by someone that would struggle to get a mortgage for themselves in Dublin (in that, f you had a couple, both bank staff, their mortgage options would be limited)

Christ, I once saw a job advert for PTSB that, unusually, quoted the salary. It described the poxy 12 quid an hour as "competitive". Competing with who, McDonalds?

is_that_so

is_that_so wrote: »

The State will divest itself of that 71%. Both AIB and the State want that to happen. I see you've covered your bases on "muppets" although the first bunch have gone. We also get dividends from AIB, about €330m to the taxpayer this year.

To put that into perspective, our entire arts budget for 2019 is €339 MN.

namloc1980

Dexter Wide Gnat wrote: »

Agree, perhaps it's time to replace bankers with ai-autobots.

Accountants are actually in a high-risk group of automation replacement within the next few years, afterall it's also mostly linear, data-fed, logical processes.

Not as if it requires great compassion, x-factor levels of natural creativity or a sparkling personality.

Accountancy in the form of basic bookkeeping, monthly data dumps etc. can easily be done through automation. But robots and automation are crap at interpretation of data and formulation of strategic plans based on said data. Be a long time before a lot of accountants and financial managers are replaced.

Potential-Monke

I'm sorry, if you can't enjoy life on €500k then feck off. Let them off to other companies, there's a slew of people who would be more than willing to do the same job (and probably better) for those wages. Same with RTE, Tubs is not the reason people watch the Late Late show. Boot him and bring in someone on a fraction of the wage. Use it as a launch pad for future Irish talent, when the host gets too big for their boots and wants more, change it up and continue. Same for the banks imo.

gordongekko

Until the full cost of the banking crisis is repaid by the banks then they shouldnt even be mentioning bonuses. Then once thats fully repaid the extra taxes that us taxpayers are pay would need to be removed. Then and only then should bonuses be considered

4068ac1elhodqr

namloc1980 wrote: »

Accountancy in the form of basic bookkeeping, monthly data dumps etc. can easily be done through automation. But robots and automation are crap at interpretation of data and formulation of strategic plans based on said data. Be a long time before a lot of accountants and financial managers are replaced.

Firstly, it has nothing to do with {physical} 'robots' or robotics. - It's pure "automation" of services. Automation is totally perfect for the interpretation with bigdata and risk assesment thereof (ask any Met/weather office).

Secondly, many reports suggest across the OECD Financal & Insurance services will see 25% replacement by 2025. And will actually be the single biggest replacement group right up to 2031.

After that the Transportation/Storage industry will start take a kicking and see massive 50% replacement by 2035.

Dohnjoe

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

There’s no talent. Bankers are a rentier class who, because there’s a lot of money to be made in siphoning off money from the real economy in good times, make loads of money. Anybody could do it.

Silly stuff.

There are many different types of financial institutions catering for a wide variety of needs, including e.g. credit unions and cooperatives, literally formed by farmers/school teachers - that pay any profits back to the depositors

The industry employees 10's of millions of people globally, everything from bank tellers to risk managers. Depending on the type of work/department it can be highly stressful pressurised and extremely complex work, I've witnessed a half-dozen burn-outs in as many months

Dohnjoe

gordongekko wrote: »

Until the full cost of the banking crisis is repaid by the banks then they shouldnt even be mentioning bonuses. Then once thats fully repaid the extra taxes that us taxpayers are pay would need to be removed. Then and only then should bonuses be considered

Banks were one factor in the crisis. Credit rating agencies, regulators, watchdogs, investors, lenders/borrowers of all types, government agencies all played a part, including the public.

Alf Veedersane

TuringBot47 wrote: »

I don't see why they should be paid more than the US President. (leaving the politics of who is president now aside)

I don't see why the salary of the US President has any relevance.

There are footballers who are paid more in a week than the US President is paid in a year.

Santan

Is it correct that the banks do not have to pay tax on profits earned, and will not for the next 20 odd years?

Ulysses Gaze

AIB giving its German customers higher rates of return on savings accounts than Irish ones.

And yet these pricks will want a bonus for screwing the taxpayer that saved this basketcase bank that has a history of malfeance.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/aib-gives-its-german-savers-higher-returns-than-irish-customers-1.3918528

vargoo

How did they all get away with introducing fees at near same time?

Santan

Santan wrote: »

Is it correct that the banks do not have to pay tax on profits earned, and will not for the next 20 odd years?

They are writing off the profits against losses so it’s pretty fair.