Top Bankers looking for Bonuses back and 500k limit lifted

STB.

Well they are back. Here come the good times eh.


https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/bankers-bonuses-should-be-reintroduced-central-bank-says-1.3914815


When will we ever learn.

Why shouldn’t they be entitled to bonuses?

NSAman

If you do not like the job leave and search your fortune somewhere else... simples.

Same in RTE etc.etc....

Amirani

For state-controlled banks, sure, have a limit and disallow bonuses.

But the State shouldn't prohibit people working in private industry from receiving bonuses. If they're so inherently bad, then they should be banned/taxed at 90% in all jobs.

Allinall

More power to them.

If I was to be blamed for everything from house prices to a protected snail in Australia getting squashed, I’d want a big bonus as well.

Dohnjoe

In the jobs market you have to pay for talent, having a cap limits Ireland in that regard. Also, it was largely a populist measure.

kneemos

Dohnjoe wrote: »

In the jobs market you have to pay for talent, having a cap limits Ireland in that regard. Also, it was largely a populist measure.

How hard is it to run a bank? I mean it's not new technology,it's been done now for hundreds of years.

Purgative

Dohnjoe wrote: »

In the jobs market you have to pay for talent, having a cap limits Ireland in that regard. Also, it was largely a populist measure.

Sure. How did that work out before when they weren't capped?




There is a lack of balance with large institutional share holders not really giving a monkeys providing the dividends keep rolling in, and rank and file being shown the door because of the branch rationalisation program.

TuringBot47

Lilian Howling Pavement wrote: »

Why shouldn’t they be entitled to bonuses?

Maybe because their complete mismanagement of financial risk bankrupted the country? What have they done since? Apart from all decide to introduce and increase transaction fees, reduce deposit rates and sell underperforming loans.

TuringBot47

TuringBot47 wrote: »

Maybe because their complete mismanagement of financial risk bankrupted the country? What have they done since? Apart from all decide to introduce and increase transaction fees, reduce deposit rates and sell underperforming loans.

So why should someone working there now not be entitled to a bonus because someone else messed up 15 years ago? Total nonsense.

James Brown

Dohnjoe wrote: »

In the jobs market you have to pay for talent, having a cap limits Ireland in that regard. Also, it was largely a populist measure.

True but we know it doesn't guarantee quality either.

Twenty Grand

Dohnjoe wrote: »

In the jobs market you have to pay for talent, having a cap limits Ireland in that regard. Also, it was largely a populist measure.

Yep, but in reality that doesn't work.

We wouldn't get the best bankers in the world if we offered massive salaries.
We wouldn't get the worst if we offered low salaries.

There's hardly any correlation between pay and performance at that level of expertise.

TuringBot47

Lilian Howling Pavement wrote: »

So why should someone working there now not be entitled to a bonus because someone else messed up 15 years ago? Total nonsense.

Why should a state owned bank pay ridiculous wages and "bonuses" ?
For example the state owns 71% of AIB

https://aib.ie/investorrelations/shareholder-information/other-shareholder-information

Do you think the public want to reward employees ?
The high ranking employees there are either
a) the same muppets who destroyed the bank or
b) new muppets who joined knowing the full history of the bank and the limitations imposed on it.

If they're not happy, let them move.
I don't see why they should be paid more than the US President. (leaving the politics of who is president now aside)

ChikiChiki

kneemos wrote: »

Dohnjoe wrote: »

In the jobs market you have to pay for talent, having a cap limits Ireland in that regard. Also, it was largely a populist measure.

How hard is it to run a bank? I mean it's not new technology,it's been done now for hundreds of years.

Hmmmm, Its a lot harder than you think. Banks are very complex organisations.

Dohnjoe

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Yep, but in reality that doesn't work.

We wouldn't get the best bankers in the world if we offered massive salaries.
We wouldn't get the worst if we offered low salaries.

There's hardly any correlation between pay and performance at that level of expertise.

Quality and talent costs money

Captain Red Beard

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Quality and talent costs money

I've seen no evidence of quality or talent.

Dohnjoe

kneemos wrote: »

How hard is it to run a bank? I mean it's not new technology,it's been done now for hundreds of years.

It ranges from complex to highly complex depending on what type of financial institution/bank (commercial, investment, clearing, and so on)

The technology, products, services, demands, regulations are constantly changing and fluid

Dohnjoe

Captain Red Beard wrote: »

I've seen no evidence of quality or talent.

How would you?

People "see" talent on a football pitch because they watch football. It's unlikely they read bank appraisals and reports and follow the performance of individuals working in the banking sector

The latter is only really visible to people quantifying them in the sector

Allinall

Captain Red Beard wrote: »

I've seen no evidence of quality or talent.

I have.

Both our main banks have been transformed from bankrupt basket cases to profit making entities, making decent returns for their shareholders.

Ulysses Gaze

STB. wrote: »

Well they are back. Here come the good times eh.


https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/bankers-bonuses-should-be-reintroduced-central-bank-says-1.3914815


When will we ever learn.

Given that the banks (i.e. the taxpayer) look set to pay €350 million in fines for screwing people on trackers, these mother****ers should not be getting an extra dime on top of their salaries.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/banks-tracker-mortgage-fines-may-reach-350m-1.3910130

Allinall

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Given that the banks (i.e. the taxpayer) look set to pay €350 million in fines for screwing people on trackers, these mother****ers should not be getting an extra dime on top of their salaries.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/banks-tracker-mortgage-fines-may-reach-350m-1.3910130

People who got screwed on trackers were idiots.

Entering complex financial deals without knowing what they were doing.

is_that_so

TuringBot47 wrote: »

Why should a state owned bank pay ridiculous wages and "bonuses" ?
For example the state owns 71% of AIB

https://aib.ie/investorrelations/shareholder-information/other-shareholder-information

Do you think the public want to reward employees ?
The high ranking employees there are either
a) the same muppets who destroyed the bank or
b) new muppets who joined knowing the full history of the bank and the limitations imposed on it.

If they're not happy, let them move.
I don't see why they should be paid more than the US President. (leaving the politics of who is president now aside)

The State will divest itself of that 71%. Both AIB and the State want that to happen. I see you've covered your bases on "muppets" although the first bunch have gone. We also get dividends from AIB, about €330m to the taxpayer this year.

_blaaz

Lilian Howling Pavement wrote: »

So why should someone working there now not be entitled to a bonus because someone else messed up 15 years ago? Total nonsense.

The company wouldnt exist and be wound up only for state bailout


Whenever the banks pay back 100% on the money put in...then maybe think about more bonuses

Force Carrier

Allinall wrote: »

I have.

Both our main banks have been transformed from bankrupt basket cases to profit making entities, making decent returns for their shareholders.

That was achieved by a capital injection of somebody else's money that didn't belong to them.

Any business will thrive if handed truck loads of money that doesn't belong to them.

Ulysses Gaze

Allinall wrote: »

People who got screwed on trackers were idiots.

Entering complex financial deals without knowing what they were doing.

That does not change the fact that the banks are culpable and that we will pay twice. Once for the fines and again when they pass on the fines as increased charges to us.

Like I said - they should not get an extra dime on top of their salaries.

Allinall

Force Carrier wrote: »

That was achieved by a capital injection of somebody else's money that didn't belong to them.

Any business will thrive if handed truck loads of money that doesn't belong to them.

Capital doesn’t mean profit.

is_that_so

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

That does not change the fact that the banks are culpable and that we will pay twice. Once for the fines and again when they pass on the fines as increased charges to us.

Like I said - they should not get an extra dime on top of their salaries.

We get dividends on their profits!

TuringBot47

is_that_so wrote: »

We also get dividends from AIB, about €330m to the taxpayer this year.

We pay €14 million a DAY in national debt interest, never mind paying off the principal.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-still-paying-14m-a-day-in-interest-on-national-debt-1.3860907

tibruit

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Quality and talent costs money

That sounds a lot like what bankers were saying before 2008. If I remember correctly it went along the lines of "If you pay peanuts you get monkeys". The reality at that time was that bankers took risks to earn big bonuses. The reality now is that the financial institutions pushing to pay the biggest bonuses today will be the first to go under when the next bust arrives. History continually repeats itself and we never learn.:rolleyes:

is_that_so

_blaaz wrote: »

The company wouldnt exist and be wound up only for state bailout


Whenever the banks pay back 100% on the money put in...then maybe think about more bonuses

It was preferable to a banking system collapse. AIB will pay back all of its money as will BOI.

Force Carrier

Allinall wrote: »

Capital doesn’t mean profit.

Capital for the transformation from bankruptcy which you were applauding them for.
Which profit figures do you think are exceptional and on what management decisions or policies gave rise to those profits?

Varik

In another 10 years maybe. Last mess is only starting to correct over the last couple of years and there's still issue holding over due to the recession.

High salaries and bonuses got us the top talent that made the mess in the first place.

_blaaz

is_that_so wrote: »

It was preferable to a banking system collapse. AIB will pay back all of its money as will BOI.

And when they do....then they can look into increasing bonuses

Amirani

_blaaz wrote: »

Whenever the banks pay back 100% on the money put in...then maybe think about more bonuses

Bank of Ireland have done this.

Allinall

Force Carrier wrote: »

Capital for the transformation from bankruptcy which you were applauding them for.
Which profit figures do you think are exceptional and on what management decisions or policies gave rise to those profits?

I never said anything about exceptional profits.

I am also not privy to management devious, so can’t answer that question.

is_that_so

TuringBot47 wrote: »

We pay €14 million a DAY in national debt interest, never mind paying off the principal.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-still-paying-14m-a-day-in-interest-on-national-debt-1.3860907

That's mostly not banking, that is the day to day cash we had to borrow when the economy went off a cliff. Total banking debt will ultimately be down to Anglo. Sovereign debt is rarely paid off, it's either cancelled or more commonly just rolled over.

4068ac1elhodqr

kneemos wrote: »

How hard is it to run a bank? I mean it's not new technology,it's been done now for hundreds of years.

Agree, perhaps it's time to replace bankers with ai-autobots.

Accountants are actually in a high-risk group of automation replacement within the next few years, afterall it's also mostly linear, data-fed, logical processes.

Not as if it requires great compassion, x-factor levels of natural creativity or a sparkling personality.

Force Carrier

Captain Red Beard wrote: »

I've seen no evidence of quality or talent.

Allinall wrote: »

I have.

Both our main banks have been transformed from bankrupt basket cases to profit making entities, making decent returns for their shareholders.

Allinall wrote: »

I never said anything about exceptional profits.

I am also not privy to management devious, so can’t answer that question.

So you were wrong in telling Red Beard you had seen evidence of quality and talent.

paw patrol

Amirani wrote: »

For state-controlled banks, sure, have a limit and disallow bonuses.

But the State shouldn't prohibit people working in private industry from receiving bonuses. If they're so inherently bad, then they should be banned/taxed at 90% in all jobs.

While I agree with you on Private entities but we clearly know from past experience some banks aren't really private entities when they're in the ****

and that's the problem

Allinall wrote: »

I have.

Both our main banks have been transformed from bankrupt basket cases to profit making entities, making decent returns for their shareholders.

after they're losses were removed and entering an upswing in the western economies of the world due to start from less than rock bottom.

A drunken sailor could achieve as much.

Allinall

Berties_Horse wrote: »

Naturally, when you have skin in the game.

Well spotted.

corkboy38

****

Allinall

Force Carrier wrote: »

So you were wrong in telling Red Beard you had seen evidence of quality and talent.

Results are evidence.

Force Carrier

Allinall wrote: »

Results are evidence.

Results of what? Declining profits?

Ulysses Gaze

Allinall wrote: »

Results are evidence.

And setting aside €1 billion to pay fines is evidence that the "results" may have been rigged anyway.

Dohnjoe

tibruit wrote: »

That sounds a lot like what bankers were saying before 2008. If I remember correctly it went along the lines of "If you pay peanuts you get monkeys". The reality at that time was that bankers took risks to earn big bonuses. The reality now is that the financial institutions pushing to pay the biggest bonuses today will be the first to go under when the next bust arrives. History continually repeats itself and we never learn.:rolleyes:

Well, we do learn. Banking today is very different than it was in 2007. Likewise banking then was different from 1928.

With banking, people often tend to think of a few Hollywood movies, a select bunch of risk-taking flashy Wall Str investment banks and decide they represent an entire industry with 10's of millions of workers. It's a large industry, and whatever the industry, ultimately talent and skill has to be paid for

Wheeliebin30

No one can get a mortgage these days were told.

I fail to see how we’re making the same mistakes.

SirGerryAdams

NSAman wrote: »

If you do not like the job leave and search your fortune somewhere else... simples.

Same in RTE etc.etc....

That' the thing. Anyone any good jump.

Allinall

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

No one can get a mortgage these days were told.

I fail to see how we’re making the same mistakes.

It’s an easy think to say for people who haven’t a clue.

CrankyHaus

Is there any evidence that Ireland's banks were some hothouse of talent, innovation and genius back when they had uncapped remuneration and bonuses?

All I can remember is customer rip-off scandal after scandal, writing off six figure debts for the likes of Charlie Haughey and Garret Fitzgerald (which is little different than a bribe, really) and overheating the economy with a rather unimaginative and obvious property bubble to cause the 2008 crash. If that's the sort of people and corporate culture that bonuses engender obviously we'd be much better off without them.

Mrs OBumble

Lilian Howling Pavement wrote: »

Why shouldn’t they be entitled to bonuses?

Because they're based on the assumption that the only reason people do a good job is for money.

Pay them proper salaries. Maybe including a commission component for people whose job is making sales that actually turn a higher than expected profit. No need for bonuses.

Dohnjoe

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Because they're based on the assumption that the only reason people do a good job is for money.

Pay them proper salaries. Maybe including a commission component for people whose job is making sales that actually turn a higher than expected profit. No need for bonuses.

In general if there are competing banks or jobs that do pay significant bonuses, then in general talent will go there. At very high level it's not an issue to move abroad.