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Top Bankers looking for Bonuses back and 500k limit lifted

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«13

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    #2
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Why shouldn’t they be entitled to bonuses?


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    #3
    NSAman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,388 ✭✭✭NSAman


    If you do not like the job leave and search your fortune somewhere else... simples.

    Same in RTE etc.etc....


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    #4
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    For state-controlled banks, sure, have a limit and disallow bonuses.

    But the State shouldn't prohibit people working in private industry from receiving bonuses. If they're so inherently bad, then they should be banned/taxed at 90% in all jobs.


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    #5
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,557 ✭✭✭Allinall


    More power to them.

    If I was to be blamed for everything from house prices to a protected snail in Australia getting squashed, I’d want a big bonus as well.


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    #6
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,792 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    In the jobs market you have to pay for talent, having a cap limits Ireland in that regard. Also, it was largely a populist measure.


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    #7
    kneemos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,410 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    In the jobs market you have to pay for talent, having a cap limits Ireland in that regard. Also, it was largely a populist measure.


    How hard is it to run a bank? I mean it's not new technology,it's been done now for hundreds of years.


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    #8
    Purgative
    Registered Users Posts: 2,509 ✭✭✭Purgative


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    In the jobs market you have to pay for talent, having a cap limits Ireland in that regard. Also, it was largely a populist measure.


    Sure. How did that work out before when they weren't capped?




    There is a lack of balance with large institutional share holders not really giving a monkeys providing the dividends keep rolling in, and rank and file being shown the door because of the branch rationalisation program.


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    #9
    TuringBot47
    Registered Users Posts: 991 ✭✭✭TuringBot47


    Lilian Howling Pavement wrote: »
    Why shouldn’t they be entitled to bonuses?

    Maybe because their complete mismanagement of financial risk bankrupted the country? What have they done since? Apart from all decide to introduce and increase transaction fees, reduce deposit rates and sell underperforming loans.


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    #10
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    TuringBot47 wrote: »
    Maybe because their complete mismanagement of financial risk bankrupted the country? What have they done since? Apart from all decide to introduce and increase transaction fees, reduce deposit rates and sell underperforming loans.

    So why should someone working there now not be entitled to a bonus because someone else messed up 15 years ago? Total nonsense.


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    #11
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    In the jobs market you have to pay for talent, having a cap limits Ireland in that regard. Also, it was largely a populist measure.

    True but we know it doesn't guarantee quality either.


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    #12
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    In the jobs market you have to pay for talent, having a cap limits Ireland in that regard. Also, it was largely a populist measure.

    Yep, but in reality that doesn't work.

    We wouldn't get the best bankers in the world if we offered massive salaries.
    We wouldn't get the worst if we offered low salaries.

    There's hardly any correlation between pay and performance at that level of expertise.


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    #13
    TuringBot47
    Registered Users Posts: 991 ✭✭✭TuringBot47


    Lilian Howling Pavement wrote: »
    So why should someone working there now not be entitled to a bonus because someone else messed up 15 years ago? Total nonsense.

    Why should a state owned bank pay ridiculous wages and "bonuses" ?
    For example the state owns 71% of AIB

    https://aib.ie/investorrelations/shareholder-information/other-shareholder-information

    Do you think the public want to reward employees ?
    The high ranking employees there are either
    a) the same muppets who destroyed the bank or
    b) new muppets who joined knowing the full history of the bank and the limitations imposed on it.

    If they're not happy, let them move.
    I don't see why they should be paid more than the US President. (leaving the politics of who is president now aside)


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    #14
    ChikiChiki
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭ChikiChiki


    kneemos wrote: »
    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    In the jobs market you have to pay for talent, having a cap limits Ireland in that regard. Also, it was largely a populist measure.


    How hard is it to run a bank? I mean it's not new technology,it's been done now for hundreds of years.

    Hmmmm, Its a lot harder than you think. Banks are very complex organisations.


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    #15
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,792 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    Yep, but in reality that doesn't work.

    We wouldn't get the best bankers in the world if we offered massive salaries.
    We wouldn't get the worst if we offered low salaries.

    There's hardly any correlation between pay and performance at that level of expertise.

    Quality and talent costs money


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    #16
    Captain Red Beard
    Registered Users Posts: 871 ✭✭✭Captain Red Beard


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Quality and talent costs money

    I've seen no evidence of quality or talent.


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    #17
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,792 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    kneemos wrote: »
    How hard is it to run a bank? I mean it's not new technology,it's been done now for hundreds of years.

    It ranges from complex to highly complex depending on what type of financial institution/bank (commercial, investment, clearing, and so on)

    The technology, products, services, demands, regulations are constantly changing and fluid


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    #18
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,792 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Captain Red Beard wrote: »
    I've seen no evidence of quality or talent.

    How would you?

    People "see" talent on a football pitch because they watch football. It's unlikely they read bank appraisals and reports and follow the performance of individuals working in the banking sector

    The latter is only really visible to people quantifying them in the sector


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    #19
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,557 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Captain Red Beard wrote: »
    I've seen no evidence of quality or talent.

    I have.

    Both our main banks have been transformed from bankrupt basket cases to profit making entities, making decent returns for their shareholders.


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    #20
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    STB. wrote: »
    Well they are back. Here come the good times eh.


    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/bankers-bonuses-should-be-reintroduced-central-bank-says-1.3914815


    When will we ever learn.

    Given that the banks (i.e. the taxpayer) look set to pay €350 million in fines for screwing people on trackers, these mother****ers should not be getting an extra dime on top of their salaries.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/banks-tracker-mortgage-fines-may-reach-350m-1.3910130


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    #21
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,557 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Ulysses Gaze wrote: »
    Given that the banks (i.e. the taxpayer) look set to pay €350 million in fines for screwing people on trackers, these mother****ers should not be getting an extra dime on top of their salaries.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/banks-tracker-mortgage-fines-may-reach-350m-1.3910130

    People who got screwed on trackers were idiots.

    Entering complex financial deals without knowing what they were doing.


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    #22
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    TuringBot47 wrote: »
    Why should a state owned bank pay ridiculous wages and "bonuses" ?
    For example the state owns 71% of AIB

    https://aib.ie/investorrelations/shareholder-information/other-shareholder-information

    Do you think the public want to reward employees ?
    The high ranking employees there are either
    a) the same muppets who destroyed the bank or
    b) new muppets who joined knowing the full history of the bank and the limitations imposed on it.

    If they're not happy, let them move.
    I don't see why they should be paid more than the US President. (leaving the politics of who is president now aside)
    The State will divest itself of that 71%. Both AIB and the State want that to happen. I see you've covered your bases on "muppets" although the first bunch have gone. We also get dividends from AIB, about €330m to the taxpayer this year.


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    #23
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    Lilian Howling Pavement wrote: »
    So why should someone working there now not be entitled to a bonus because someone else messed up 15 years ago? Total nonsense.

    The company wouldnt exist and be wound up only for state bailout


    Whenever the banks pay back 100% on the money put in...then maybe think about more bonuses


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    #24
    Force Carrier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Force Carrier


    Allinall wrote: »
    I have.

    Both our main banks have been transformed from bankrupt basket cases to profit making entities, making decent returns for their shareholders.


    That was achieved by a capital injection of somebody else's money that didn't belong to them.

    Any business will thrive if handed truck loads of money that doesn't belong to them.


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    #25
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    Allinall wrote: »
    People who got screwed on trackers were idiots.

    Entering complex financial deals without knowing what they were doing.

    That does not change the fact that the banks are culpable and that we will pay twice. Once for the fines and again when they pass on the fines as increased charges to us.

    Like I said - they should not get an extra dime on top of their salaries.


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    #26
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,557 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Force Carrier wrote: »
    That was achieved by a capital injection of somebody else's money that didn't belong to them.

    Any business will thrive if handed truck loads of money that doesn't belong to them.

    Capital doesn’t mean profit.


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    #27
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Ulysses Gaze wrote: »
    That does not change the fact that the banks are culpable and that we will pay twice. Once for the fines and again when they pass on the fines as increased charges to us.

    Like I said - they should not get an extra dime on top of their salaries.
    We get dividends on their profits!


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    #28
    TuringBot47
    Registered Users Posts: 991 ✭✭✭TuringBot47


    is_that_so wrote: »
    We also get dividends from AIB, about €330m to the taxpayer this year.

    We pay €14 million a DAY in national debt interest, never mind paying off the principal.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-still-paying-14m-a-day-in-interest-on-national-debt-1.3860907


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    #29
    tibruit
    Registered Users Posts: 1,057 ✭✭✭tibruit


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Quality and talent costs money

    That sounds a lot like what bankers were saying before 2008. If I remember correctly it went along the lines of "If you pay peanuts you get monkeys". The reality at that time was that bankers took risks to earn big bonuses. The reality now is that the financial institutions pushing to pay the biggest bonuses today will be the first to go under when the next bust arrives. History continually repeats itself and we never learn.:rolleyes:


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    #30
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    _blaaz wrote: »
    The company wouldnt exist and be wound up only for state bailout


    Whenever the banks pay back 100% on the money put in...then maybe think about more bonuses
    It was preferable to a banking system collapse. AIB will pay back all of its money as will BOI.


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    #31
    Force Carrier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Force Carrier


    Allinall wrote: »
    Capital doesn’t mean profit.


    Capital for the transformation from bankruptcy which you were applauding them for.
    Which profit figures do you think are exceptional and on what management decisions or policies gave rise to those profits?


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