The Dublin skyline is ugly, why are we not building high rise for modern city?

LiamoSail · 29-06-2019 12:32pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Move Dublin port and build housing

Total waste of space down there

Something like 70% of what comes in through Dublin port is ultimately bound for within the M50 area.

Environmentally, moving Dublin Port would be disasterous and cause huge congestion as the goods have to reach Dublin by other means.

It's a nice idea but totally unrealistic in the absence of an alternative suitable port

LiamoSail · 29-06-2019 12:36pm

Aegir wrote: »

Plenty of space in Longford. It makes far more sense to have it there from a logistics perspective.

You want to put a shipping port in a landlocked county? A shipping port for ships

md23040 · 29-06-2019 1:00pm

LiamoSail wrote: »

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Environmentally, moving Dublin Port would be disasterous and cause huge congestion as the goods have to reach Dublin by other means.

It's a nice idea but totally unrealistic in the absence of an alternative suitable port

There was talk in 2018 of Treasury Holding developing the deep water port at Bremore near to Balbriggan that has a land bank of 1000 acres. Saying moving Dublin Port is unrealistic is not practical considering it is at capacity and has no further room to expand and would need to reclaim land from the sea that could exacerbate flooding risks really does not make any sense.

London’s main container Port is in Felixstowe and handles 3.8 million TEU and isn’t anywhere near London.

There’s 650 prime real estate acres in the city centre of Dublin and at some stage the council will realize 30 years past the breaking point that something should be done. This whole area is Prime for high rise and wish Ronan all the success dealing with those planning muppets.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/moving-dublin-port-to-free-up-650-acres-for-development-1.902559

.

LiamoSail · 29-06-2019 1:27pm

md23040 wrote: »

There was talk in 2018 of Treasury Holding developing the deep water port at Bremore near to Balbriggan that has a land bank of 1000 acres. Saying moving Dublin Port is unrealistic is not practical considering it is at capacity and has no further room to expand and would need to reclaim land from the sea that could exacerbate flooding risks really does not make any sense.

London’s main container Port is in Felixstowe and handles 3.8 million TEU and isn’t anywhere near London.

There’s 650 prime real estate acres in the city centre of Dublin and at some stage the council will realize 30 years past the breaking point that something should be done. This whole area is Prime for high rise and wish Ronan and the success dealing with those planning muppets.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/moving-dublin-port-to-free-up-650-acres-for-development-1.902559%3fmode=amp

Dublin Port could expand by reclaiming land, as they tried a number of years back. Obviously there's huge objection to the land reclamation project.

Regarding Bremore, I think it's a great idea just not a practical one. Even if we overcame the huge infrastructural barriers such as transport links and road capacity, there's the environmental aspect to consider with the significant additional land carriage requirements. Shipping goods from Bremore to Dublin is a lot more miles than shipping from Dublin port to Dublin. That costs money, creates congestion and damages the environment.

The issue in Dublin isn't so much the lack of space, but how we use that space. There's so much wasted space in the city as is, that utilising that space and building high rise would be more economic and environmentally sound solution to the Dublin city capacity issue than moving Dublin Port. Bare in mind too that Dublin Port isn't just sites, yards and warehouses, there's a huge amount infrastructure in the port and at the berths from passenger and oil terminals, to gantry cranes, passenger gangways, ramps, rail links, bulk loading facilities etc. There's a huge cost associated with them.

Until we really are a city in need of more space, the notion of moving Dublin port seems unnecessary and highly impractical

riclad · 29-06-2019 2:00pm

Young people go to dublin ,cos thats where the jobs are ,
if we want more high buildings the city council and the planning regs would have to be changed .i used to cycle from finglas to blanchardstown once a week,
Theres acres and acres of empty land in that area ,
around the travelor site in finglas and in that area .
1000, s of houses could be built there .
One solution would be maybe some semi state offices could be moved down the country .
Of course theres the nimby problem, people object if there s a large estate planned close to where they live.
We have planning rules and regulations ,
Most buildings are built on private land by private builders ,
The city council does not have total control of how the city looks .

Dyr · 29-06-2019 3:33pm

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Or the fact we have a massive housing crisis, the city has inadequate overstretched public transport and is sprawling too far out and MNCs are continuing to invest heavily in Ireland.

We need high rise to remain competitive. Places for people to live and work in convenient locations. Dublin is sprawling way too far. That in itself is posing a major problem. It's about doing what is needed and getting with the times.

Stay Competitive, do what's needed, get with the times. All the classic Irish clichés being trotted out like you're managing enda kennys twitter account

Competitive with what? Competitive by bringing even more people into an overcrowded city? Yeah. that sounds like a swiss watch of a plan. overcrowded hospitals, schools and transport.

It may come as a suprise to you but Dublin city centre is already high density.

Here's a better cliché, when you're in a hole you stop digging.

Skatedude · 30-06-2019 3:51am

con___manx1 wrote: »

sky scrapers are over rated. when you see them everyday going to work you get sick of the sight of them. I did anyway when I lived in a high rise city. Dublin needs to sort out its public transport before we
start worrying about skyscrapers.

I agree, people and the government all seem to think we work mon to fri in the city center. We simply do not have the public transport infastucture to build up and I'd love to see a few decent sky scrapers in Dublin.
I can't even get to work on the weekends without my car. And before you say it 50km commutes on a bicycle after 12 hours on your feet all day is too much for me.

I have to ask, why do people seem to think that you can work and live in the same area with high rise buildings?

Atlantic Dawn · 30-06-2019 3:59am

When will people protest about the levels of motorised pollution allowed in the city? Crazy how much since the 1980's there's been a complete blank shown to actual monitoring of emissions killing people in the city. Back at that same era the illness of the day was acid rain damaging blockwork, what an utter kip we live in now with corrupt fookers governing it.

Skatedude · 30-06-2019 5:27am

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

When will people protest about the levels of motorised pollution allowed in the city? Crazy how much since the 1980's there's been a complete blank shown to actual monitoring of emissions killing people in the city. Back at that same era the illness of the day was acid rain damaging blockwork, what an utter kip we live in now with corrupt fookers governing it.

Because we have very little alternatives? public transport is a joke. I used to love cycling to work, for the 4 years out of the 30+ years i've been working close enough to do so, and there has never been public transport available for any of my jobs over the years as all my jobs are shift work.

People will stop using cars when the government provides a suitible alternative.

snotboogie · 30-06-2019 8:55am

Bambi wrote: »

Stay Competitive, do what's needed, get with the times. All the classic Irish clichés being trotted out like you're managing enda kennys twitter account

Competitive with what? Competitive by bringing even more people into an overcrowded city? Yeah. that sounds like a swiss watch of a plan. overcrowded hospitals, schools and transport.

It may come as a suprise to you but Dublin city centre is already high density.

Here's a better cliché, when you're in a hole you stop digging.

Competitive with other cities, both in terms of the efficiency of local industry and to attract foreign industry. If we stopped attracting people to the city, employers would look elsewhere and local business wouldn’t be able to get the workers they need. The economies of scale attained through a large city are the cornerstone of the wealth and standards of living we enjoy in this country.

hmmm · 30-06-2019 8:45pm

The Irish problem with apartments comes from Ballymun towers, and the absolute mess that was made of them (largely by the inhabitants), and the snobbishness that has attached to all high rise apartments as a consequence. You'll usually find it's the 50/60 year olds going on about how "Irish people don't want apartments". There is also the crowd who don't understand that management fees pay for things like bins, gardens, building maintenance etc., and think somehow whatever is on the outside of an apartment appears by magic.

That attitude is changing quite fast I think - the Europeans coming over to work can't understand why they have to share in some dreary 3 bed in the suburbs, when they could be renting their own place in a high rise central to town with nice views. Younger people who perhaps don't want kids, or only want 1 or 2 are considering apartments with access to green spaces and playgrounds. There are lots of high quality apartment blocks being built, and many are suitable for downsizers - I'm increasingly seeing older people begin to consider whether they should sell the 4 bedroom which is mostly empty and they can't maintain, and move to an apartment.

Dyr · 30-06-2019 11:13pm

hmmm wrote: »

The Irish problem with apartments comes from Ballymun towers, and the absolute mess that was made of them (largely by the inhabitants),.

You haven't a clue matey, The Problem with Ballymun was that it was photogenic. Every time the media wanted a backdrop for a piece about drugs, social deprivation, unemployment etc. they used the flats, Ballymun became visual shorthand for all the problems that working class estates faced in the 80s and 90s. Which is why the Corporation knocked the place, they felt it could not be redeemed. It had other problems but so did half of Dublin.

I grew up in the flats and I liked living in them. If this was Germany or Spain I wouldn't hesitate to live in an apartment but you couldn't pay me to live in one in Ireland, most of them are awful.

Muahahaha · 01-07-2019 10:24pm

Anyone remember the PDs plans for a high rise Dublin from 2006. They also suggested moving Dublin Port and concentrating high rise in the docklands. 13 years ago now and not much has changed.

Thelonious Monk · 02-07-2019 11:19pm

It's like they got a transition year student to lash something up with MS Paint.

07-07-2019 5:17pm

If you think the Dublin skyline is ugly, try going up Killiney hill on a clear evening, or even the Dublin mountains, and you'll see a beautiful skyline as far as (perhaps) Dublin Airport.

It's not an ugly skyline, it's just pretty flat. I agree that we need to build up, but I'd stop far short of calling the city 'ugly'. The beauty of being able to view the whole city from a moderate height, of which there are many opportunities, ought not to be discounted.

cgcsb · 09-07-2019 11:20am

Anyone seen this? It's a render of what looks like a sky scraper beside the cobblestone pub

L1011 · 09-07-2019 1:24pm

Doesn't match the old proposal for the site nor was there any planning in when I checked last

cgcsb · 09-07-2019 1:25pm

L1011 wrote: »

Doesn't match the old proposal for the site nor was there any planning in when I checked last

What was the old proposal out of curiosity?

FitzElla · 09-07-2019 2:43pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

When will people protest about the levels of motorised pollution allowed in the city? Crazy how much since the 1980's there's been a complete blank shown to actual monitoring of emissions killing people in the city. Back at that same era the illness of the day was acid rain damaging blockwork, what an utter kip we live in now with corrupt fookers governing it.

The EPA published a report today showing significant number of areas in Dublin are breaching the NO2 limits. NO2 is mainly produced by diesel exhausts and has real long term health impacts especially on the young and elderly. The M50 and Port Tunnel were the worst as you would expect, but the quays and Pearse street were also bad.

Just another reality of urban sprawl. Dublin needs a complete rethink and major investment in getting people living near where they work and a proper public transport system for those who don't.

Idbatterim · 09-07-2019 2:56pm

"high rise" arent affordable, is one of the reasons I see for people objecting to it. So what? the low rise apartments being built in the docks already arent affordable for the masses. Why should people be stopped from living there, than want to and can afford to!

cgcsb · 09-07-2019 3:37pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

"high rise" arent affordable, is one of the reasons I see for people objecting to it. So what? the low rise apartments being built in the docks already arent affordable for the masses. Why should people be stopped from living there, than want to and can afford to!

Lots of people don't think in 3 dimensional terms, it isn't obvious to them that providing accommodation for one cohort of the population takes the pressure off the rest of the market. You often get SF banging this drum depending on the ignorance of their voters.

Thelonious Monk · 09-07-2019 6:31pm

We have 2 storey social housing around Lombard st opposite the IFSC ffs. What kind of moron made a decision to put them there?

cgcsb · 10-07-2019 3:25pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

We have 2 storey social housing around Lombard st opposite the IFSC ffs. What kind of moron made a decision to put them there?

Same in vast swathes of the inner city between O'Connell St and the point. Basically champion of the people Tony Gregory got everyone a 2 storey council house with back and front garden, making the area the lowest density it has been since the 16th century. Everyone else who was unfortunate enough to not be from the area was to commute from Kildare. It's the equivalent of Mr Burns getting into the 2 person bomb shelter and not letting Smithers in because he likes to put his feet up.

L1011 · 10-07-2019 9:23pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

We have 2 storey social housing around Lombard st opposite the IFSC ffs. What kind of moron made a decision to put them there?

They're mostly (all?) 3 storey, often duplex over apartment and usually without gardens unlike the claim above - they may have a small hard surfaced yard but there are building regulations to follow. They are surprisingly high density; not that dissimilar to some of the older courtyard flat blocks.

Gregory Deal era stuff albeit that wasn't his own constituency so I doubt he pushed for them specifically

They did reduce density in the Summerhill area - the tenement blocks there had been retrofitted on the cheap in to servicable/safe sets of 4 flats in the footprint of 2 of the new ones. The Lombard Street area ones weren't replacing housing; indeed Lombard Street didn't even meet the quays. But higher density could have been obtained

JupiterKid · 11-07-2019 12:01am

cgcsb wrote: »

Same in vast swathes of the inner city between O'Connell St and the point. Basically champion of the people Tony Gregory got everyone a 2 storey council house with back and front garden, making the area the lowest density it has been since the 16th century. Everyone else who was unfortunate enough to not be from the area was to commute from Kildare. It's the equivalent of Mr Burns getting into the 2 person bomb shelter and not letting Smithers in because he likes to put his feet up.

Not true. The lower rise red brick inner city townhouse schemes began quite a few years before Tony Gregory had any possible influence in this regard. The then Dublin Corporation placed a moratorium on building any more inner city social flats in 1973...they changed direction in their inner city housing policy and the first townhouse scheme was built in The Coombe/Meath Street in 1975-77.

wakka12 · 11-07-2019 12:20pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Anyone remember the PDs plans for a high rise Dublin from 2006. They also suggested moving Dublin Port and concentrating high rise in the docklands. 13 years ago now and not much has changed.

How could this possibly be called a 'plan', more like a joke. Some crudely photoshopped famous buildings from around the world shoved into Dublin port.It has no bearings on reality what so ever, so Im not surprised nothing came of it

COLONELsANDERS · 12-07-2019 6:05pm

As silly as that rendering looks I believe the idea has merit.

That land is surrounded on three sides by water. It's close to the city centre, the office building developments around the point, and beside the 'silicon docks ' area.
It could provide accommodation for thousand of people who could walk / cycle to work.
It could provide public spaces like waterside walks. Opening up the Southbank in London was a tremendous success.
Dublin's most attractive feature is it's geographic location beside the sea and mountains. Any plan that increases access to the this for the public, while addressing issues like chronic housing shortage and catastrophically low density development should be explored.

wakka12 · 12-07-2019 7:36pm

Thats true, about the proximity to water which should be taken advantage of . But its actually not particularly close to the city centre. The pigeon house is almost 5km away from O'connell Street, places considered very much Dublin suburbia such as Dundrum, booterstown and ballyfermot are all only 5km from Stephens green and are not considered close to the city centre really. Only dundrum maybe because it is quickly accesible by luas

I really think they would muck up that amazing opportunity though. For the huge amount of area that the north and south docks encompass theres been no nice parks built for the city in the area , the grand canal square is nice but thats it. Such a massive development should have included multiple attracitve civic spaces and amenities

Turquoise Hexagon Sun · 15-07-2019 5:43pm

Dublin is great but it's so backwards and lagging behind the rest of the modern world. It's so stupid having a sprawling city when most people need to commute to the centre. No wonder we have some of the worst traffic jams in Europe.

There are a huge amount of us that would love to live in a high-rise, no garden, but live close to work and not have to get a bus, tram or train in the morning. No. I have to live further out and commute on a bus where I'm not garunteed the bus can stop because it's full capacity.

Irish mentality when it comes to this stuff is usually about 50 years behind other first world countries. They what they'll do is this sham job of trying to keep up when it's far too late.

Jamie2k9 · 16-10-2019 3:13pm

May as well stick this here:

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/sean-mulryan-plans-dublin-s-tallest-tower-at-connolly-station-1.4051295?mode=amp

Planning for 23 story apartment submitted as part of Connolly Quarter. The site of Apollo House which has planning for 11 story office block, application submitted to add 10 floor apartment block on top.

Idbatterim · 16-10-2019 3:41pm

At least most of the stuff developed in the docklands, ****, low rise boxes, are commercial and can be redeveloped easily at some point! Its the waste of space residential rubbish they threw up, that if it isnt owned by a REIT etc, will probalby never be redeveloped in our lifetime.

The damage is done on much of the brownfield, lets just hope going forward its an improvement on the rubbish that has been foisted on this city, starting with the Irish glass bottle site!

riclad · 16-10-2019 4:48pm

We need more high rise buildings and apartments in certain area.s ,
whether they look ugly is up to the planning authoritys to decide ,
is this building in compliance with current guidelines .
Most of the buildings over 8 storeys are located at the docklands area.
Look at the skyline in london,
theres very large skyscrapers all over the place , in every direction .
Builders can build high building,s almost anywhere ,
maybe theres rules about building near parks or in certain place,s
like close to buckingham palace .
There,s area,s in london zoned for lo rise residential building only i presume .

Jamie2k9 · 10-12-2019 10:16pm

Apollo House site got approval for extra 10 floor apartments.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/council-gives-green-light-to-21-storey-tower-on-former-apollo-house-site-1.4105981

Passenger · 10-12-2019 10:48pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Apollo House site got approval for extra 10 floor apartments.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/council-gives-green-light-to-21-storey-tower-on-former-apollo-house-site-1.4105981

Interesting precedent.

Thelonious Monk · 10-12-2019 10:49pm

good stuff, denser living in the city would make things better on so many levels, it's a no brainer, hopefully we start to cop on going forward

wakka12 · 10-12-2019 10:53pm

Cant wait to see what Dublin has to offer in future with it's potential unlocked

Thelonious Monk · 10-12-2019 11:03pm

wakka12 wrote: »

Cant wait to see what Dublin has to offer in future with it's potential unlocked

In fairness wakkers they should have put the high rise in the docklands so that ship has sailed

wakka12 · 10-12-2019 11:08pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

In fairness wakkers they should have put the high rise in the docklands so that ship has sailed

Yep, but could always start demolishing and densifying a few of the hideous low rise slabs that went up in the 90's and early 00's around the IFSC

I propose this stunner as tribute
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3491004,-6.2409963,3a,75y,226.22h,103.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLH-7qpVvHmvvytiUzBUvYw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Thelonious Monk · 10-12-2019 11:14pm

wakka12 wrote: »

Yep, but could always start demolishing and densifying a few of the hideous low rise slabs that went up in the 90's and early 00's around the IFSC

I propose this stunner as tribute
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3491004,-6.2409963,3a,75y,226.22h,103.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLH-7qpVvHmvvytiUzBUvYw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

True dat, or all the social housing in the area, but you couldn't touch that with a barge pole, politically

Ubbquittious · 11-12-2019 1:10am

High rise in Dublin would do wonders to make the place even uglier

Alicano · 11-12-2019 1:51pm

A never gonna happen unpopular opinion. But I'd love to see all those 1960's/70's flats knocked down and replaced with modern apts and retail or whatever. The prime locations of the flats is insane. Slap bang beside Stephens green.. along the waterfront down from Trinity.. etc etc. Anywhere you drive in the city it's the same gaudy looking flats with clothes hanging off balconies and 65 inch tvs lighting up the tiny rooms. I'm not old enough to have been around when they were built, but whomever gave it the nod has screwed up the current landscape of the city.
Like I said. Unpopular opinion. And they'll never be knocked down.

wakka12 · 11-12-2019 1:52pm

Alicano wrote: »

A never gonna happen unpopular opinion. But I'd love to see all those 1960's/70's flats knocked down and replaced with modern apts and retail or whatever. The prime locations of the flats is insane. Slap bang beside Stephens green.. along the waterfront down from Trinity.. etc etc. Anywhere you drive in the city it's the same gaudy looking flats with clothes hanging off balconies and 65 inch tvs lighting up the tiny rooms. I'm not old enough to have been around when they were built, but whomever gave it the nod has screwed up the current landscape of the city.
Like I said. Unpopular opinion. And they'll never be knocked down.

What 60's 70's flats? Dublin has very few buildings from those eras left in the city centre I would say

evil_seed · 11-12-2019 2:00pm

I haven't seen anyone mention this, but surely the actual ground underneath isn't strong enough for Skyscrapers? Limestone being a soft stone.
The reason skyscrapers work in other places is because they are all built on hard rock

Alicano · 11-12-2019 2:02pm

wakka12 wrote: »

What 60's 70's flats? Dublin has very few buildings from those eras left in the city centre I would say

Very much open to correction. I'm basing my guess on a visual of the architecture

Lombard St East, Holles St, Mercer St Uppr and Cuffee St are examples.
Gaudy awful flats on prime real estate. I hope I live ling enough to see them flattened and replaced by high rise Apts or offices.

L1011 · 11-12-2019 2:27pm

You seem to be mixing 40s/50s and early 90s developments there.

cgcsb · 11-12-2019 2:45pm

I'm quite fond of the Stephen's green and chancery st flats. Excellent examples of the functional design of the time.

The new mid rises on Tara st and the proposed Connolly quarter will probably go ahead. Therell be some mid rises on the guiness site. There are proposals for high rise on north wall quay(Johnny Ronan) and soon the hickeys site at Heuston. The site where the proposed metrolink station is on Tara st would be a candidate after the metrolink project is abandoned.

Jamie2k9 · 13-12-2019 2:00am

Premair Inn have secured a site on Gloucester Street to construct a 10 story (108) room hotel.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/premier-inn-secures-dublin-docklands-site-for-108-bedroom-hotel-1.4112460

Looks like this is the site:
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3463525,-6.2503453,3a,75y,129.56h,88.92t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slurqc3M95WtMQtTEsURYGw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Jamie2k9 · 11-01-2020 11:54am

Another 11 story block around Tara https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/permission-sought-for-11-storey-block-to-enclose-dart-line-in-central-dublin-1.4132055?mode=amp

marieholmfan · 11-01-2020 12:03pm

The state should CPO very low density very central housing and build on it.

The single storey cottages beside the Mater. The single storey cottages is Stoneybatter and Donnybrook. The single storey cottages in Rathmines . Etc.

crushproof · 11-01-2020 3:41pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

The state should CPO very low density very central housing and build on it.

The single storey cottages beside the Mater. The single storey cottages is Stoneybatter and Donnybrook. The single storey cottages in Rathmines . Etc.

Likewise around Connolly Station and those horrible 90's redbricks on the south quays. Such prime locations but filled with squat houses.

The Dublin skyline is ugly, why are we not building high rise for modern city?

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