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The Dublin skyline is ugly, why are we not building high rise for modern city?

ChikiChiki

Just on the train home now going through Drumcondra and the skyline of Dublin (or lack of) is absolutely disgusting. Loads of grey/brownish everywhere, council flats, brick houses and nothing of note other than Croke Park and the spire.

I see many cranes down towards the docklands being wasted building low rise commercial developments. I really think with Brexit, Dublin is making a huge mistake not building to Singapore levels of high rise. 30/40 story plus buildings zoned in the docklands would make the cityscape look spectacular. We could still retain the charm of old Dublin. They could be multi purpose mix of residential, commercial and shopping centres on the ground/underground floor. With this in mind we could compete with top global cities and provide great living standards for young professionals who wouldn't have to commute from the likes of Mullingar etc.

Why is this not happening? In my opinion it is a massive blown opportunity and lack of ambition from successive reactive instead of proactive Government's. Too many ministers with vested interests in keeping property supply low. We are attracting top Global MNCs yet staff are being shoehorned into shared and not fit for purpose accommodation out if the city. Only a matter of time before further investment is lost as the city is stretched. An absolute embarrassment.

Any thoughts?

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hmmm

The Irish problem with apartments comes from Ballymun towers, and the absolute mess that was made of them (largely by the inhabitants), and the snobbishness that has attached to all high rise apartments as a consequence. You'll usually find it's the 50/60 year olds going on about how "Irish people don't want apartments". There is also the crowd who don't understand that management fees pay for things like bins, gardens, building maintenance etc., and think somehow whatever is on the outside of an apartment appears by magic.

That attitude is changing quite fast I think - the Europeans coming over to work can't understand why they have to share in some dreary 3 bed in the suburbs, when they could be renting their own place in a high rise central to town with nice views. Younger people who perhaps don't want kids, or only want 1 or 2 are considering apartments with access to green spaces and playgrounds. There are lots of high quality apartment blocks being built, and many are suitable for downsizers - I'm increasingly seeing older people begin to consider whether they should sell the 4 bedroom which is mostly empty and they can't maintain, and move to an apartment.

Dyr

hmmm wrote: »

The Irish problem with apartments comes from Ballymun towers, and the absolute mess that was made of them (largely by the inhabitants),.

You haven't a clue matey, The Problem with Ballymun was that it was photogenic. Every time the media wanted a backdrop for a piece about drugs, social deprivation, unemployment etc. they used the flats, Ballymun became visual shorthand for all the problems that working class estates faced in the 80s and 90s. Which is why the Corporation knocked the place, they felt it could not be redeemed. It had other problems but so did half of Dublin.

I grew up in the flats and I liked living in them. If this was Germany or Spain I wouldn't hesitate to live in an apartment but you couldn't pay me to live in one in Ireland, most of them are awful.

Muahahaha

Anyone remember the PDs plans for a high rise Dublin from 2006. They also suggested moving Dublin Port and concentrating high rise in the docklands. 13 years ago now and not much has changed.

Thelonious Monk

It's like they got a transition year student to lash something up with MS Paint.

[Deleted User]

If you think the Dublin skyline is ugly, try going up Killiney hill on a clear evening, or even the Dublin mountains, and you'll see a beautiful skyline as far as (perhaps) Dublin Airport.

It's not an ugly skyline, it's just pretty flat. I agree that we need to build up, but I'd stop far short of calling the city 'ugly'. The beauty of being able to view the whole city from a moderate height, of which there are many opportunities, ought not to be discounted.

cgcsb

Anyone seen this? It's a render of what looks like a sky scraper beside the cobblestone pub

L1011

Doesn't match the old proposal for the site nor was there any planning in when I checked last

cgcsb

L1011 wrote: »

Doesn't match the old proposal for the site nor was there any planning in when I checked last

What was the old proposal out of curiosity?

FitzElla

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

When will people protest about the levels of motorised pollution allowed in the city? Crazy how much since the 1980's there's been a complete blank shown to actual monitoring of emissions killing people in the city. Back at that same era the illness of the day was acid rain damaging blockwork, what an utter kip we live in now with corrupt fookers governing it.

The EPA published a report today showing significant number of areas in Dublin are breaching the NO2 limits. NO2 is mainly produced by diesel exhausts and has real long term health impacts especially on the young and elderly. The M50 and Port Tunnel were the worst as you would expect, but the quays and Pearse street were also bad.

Just another reality of urban sprawl. Dublin needs a complete rethink and major investment in getting people living near where they work and a proper public transport system for those who don't.

Idbatterim

"high rise" arent affordable, is one of the reasons I see for people objecting to it. So what? the low rise apartments being built in the docks already arent affordable for the masses. Why should people be stopped from living there, than want to and can afford to!

cgcsb

Idbatterim wrote: »

"high rise" arent affordable, is one of the reasons I see for people objecting to it. So what? the low rise apartments being built in the docks already arent affordable for the masses. Why should people be stopped from living there, than want to and can afford to!

Lots of people don't think in 3 dimensional terms, it isn't obvious to them that providing accommodation for one cohort of the population takes the pressure off the rest of the market. You often get SF banging this drum depending on the ignorance of their voters.

Thelonious Monk

We have 2 storey social housing around Lombard st opposite the IFSC ffs. What kind of moron made a decision to put them there?

cgcsb

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

We have 2 storey social housing around Lombard st opposite the IFSC ffs. What kind of moron made a decision to put them there?

Same in vast swathes of the inner city between O'Connell St and the point. Basically champion of the people Tony Gregory got everyone a 2 storey council house with back and front garden, making the area the lowest density it has been since the 16th century. Everyone else who was unfortunate enough to not be from the area was to commute from Kildare. It's the equivalent of Mr Burns getting into the 2 person bomb shelter and not letting Smithers in because he likes to put his feet up.

L1011

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

We have 2 storey social housing around Lombard st opposite the IFSC ffs. What kind of moron made a decision to put them there?

They're mostly (all?) 3 storey, often duplex over apartment and usually without gardens unlike the claim above - they may have a small hard surfaced yard but there are building regulations to follow. They are surprisingly high density; not that dissimilar to some of the older courtyard flat blocks.

Gregory Deal era stuff albeit that wasn't his own constituency so I doubt he pushed for them specifically

They did reduce density in the Summerhill area - the tenement blocks there had been retrofitted on the cheap in to servicable/safe sets of 4 flats in the footprint of 2 of the new ones. The Lombard Street area ones weren't replacing housing; indeed Lombard Street didn't even meet the quays. But higher density could have been obtained

JupiterKid

cgcsb wrote: »

Same in vast swathes of the inner city between O'Connell St and the point. Basically champion of the people Tony Gregory got everyone a 2 storey council house with back and front garden, making the area the lowest density it has been since the 16th century. Everyone else who was unfortunate enough to not be from the area was to commute from Kildare. It's the equivalent of Mr Burns getting into the 2 person bomb shelter and not letting Smithers in because he likes to put his feet up.

Not true. The lower rise red brick inner city townhouse schemes began quite a few years before Tony Gregory had any possible influence in this regard. The then Dublin Corporation placed a moratorium on building any more inner city social flats in 1973...they changed direction in their inner city housing policy and the first townhouse scheme was built in The Coombe/Meath Street in 1975-77.

wakka12

Muahahaha wrote: »

Anyone remember the PDs plans for a high rise Dublin from 2006. They also suggested moving Dublin Port and concentrating high rise in the docklands. 13 years ago now and not much has changed.

How could this possibly be called a 'plan', more like a joke. Some crudely photoshopped famous buildings from around the world shoved into Dublin port.It has no bearings on reality what so ever, so Im not surprised nothing came of it

COLONELsANDERS

As silly as that rendering looks I believe the idea has merit.

That land is surrounded on three sides by water. It's close to the city centre, the office building developments around the point, and beside the 'silicon docks ' area.
It could provide accommodation for thousand of people who could walk / cycle to work.
It could provide public spaces like waterside walks. Opening up the Southbank in London was a tremendous success.
Dublin's most attractive feature is it's geographic location beside the sea and mountains. Any plan that increases access to the this for the public, while addressing issues like chronic housing shortage and catastrophically low density development should be explored.

wakka12

Thats true, about the proximity to water which should be taken advantage of . But its actually not particularly close to the city centre. The pigeon house is almost 5km away from O'connell Street, places considered very much Dublin suburbia such as Dundrum, booterstown and ballyfermot are all only 5km from Stephens green and are not considered close to the city centre really. Only dundrum maybe because it is quickly accesible by luas

I really think they would muck up that amazing opportunity though. For the huge amount of area that the north and south docks encompass theres been no nice parks built for the city in the area , the grand canal square is nice but thats it. Such a massive development should have included multiple attracitve civic spaces and amenities

Turquoise Hexagon Sun

Dublin is great but it's so backwards and lagging behind the rest of the modern world. It's so stupid having a sprawling city when most people need to commute to the centre. No wonder we have some of the worst traffic jams in Europe.

There are a huge amount of us that would love to live in a high-rise, no garden, but live close to work and not have to get a bus, tram or train in the morning. No. I have to live further out and commute on a bus where I'm not garunteed the bus can stop because it's full capacity.

Irish mentality when it comes to this stuff is usually about 50 years behind other first world countries. They what they'll do is this sham job of trying to keep up when it's far too late.

Jamie2k9

May as well stick this here:

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/sean-mulryan-plans-dublin-s-tallest-tower-at-connolly-station-1.4051295?mode=amp

Planning for 23 story apartment submitted as part of Connolly Quarter. The site of Apollo House which has planning for 11 story office block, application submitted to add 10 floor apartment block on top.

Idbatterim

At least most of the stuff developed in the docklands, ****, low rise boxes, are commercial and can be redeveloped easily at some point! Its the waste of space residential rubbish they threw up, that if it isnt owned by a REIT etc, will probalby never be redeveloped in our lifetime.

The damage is done on much of the brownfield, lets just hope going forward its an improvement on the rubbish that has been foisted on this city, starting with the Irish glass bottle site!

riclad

We need more high rise buildings and apartments in certain area.s ,
whether they look ugly is up to the planning authoritys to decide ,
is this building in compliance with current guidelines .
Most of the buildings over 8 storeys are located at the docklands area.
Look at the skyline in london,
theres very large skyscrapers all over the place , in every direction .
Builders can build high building,s almost anywhere ,
maybe theres rules about building near parks or in certain place,s
like close to buckingham palace .
There,s area,s in london zoned for lo rise residential building only i presume .

Jamie2k9

Apollo House site got approval for extra 10 floor apartments.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/council-gives-green-light-to-21-storey-tower-on-former-apollo-house-site-1.4105981

Passenger

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Apollo House site got approval for extra 10 floor apartments.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/council-gives-green-light-to-21-storey-tower-on-former-apollo-house-site-1.4105981

Interesting precedent.

Thelonious Monk

good stuff, denser living in the city would make things better on so many levels, it's a no brainer, hopefully we start to cop on going forward

wakka12

Cant wait to see what Dublin has to offer in future with it's potential unlocked

Thelonious Monk

wakka12 wrote: »

Cant wait to see what Dublin has to offer in future with it's potential unlocked

In fairness wakkers they should have put the high rise in the docklands so that ship has sailed

wakka12

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

In fairness wakkers they should have put the high rise in the docklands so that ship has sailed

Yep, but could always start demolishing and densifying a few of the hideous low rise slabs that went up in the 90's and early 00's around the IFSC

I propose this stunner as tribute
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3491004,-6.2409963,3a,75y,226.22h,103.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLH-7qpVvHmvvytiUzBUvYw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Thelonious Monk

wakka12 wrote: »

Yep, but could always start demolishing and densifying a few of the hideous low rise slabs that went up in the 90's and early 00's around the IFSC

I propose this stunner as tribute
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3491004,-6.2409963,3a,75y,226.22h,103.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLH-7qpVvHmvvytiUzBUvYw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

True dat, or all the social housing in the area, but you couldn't touch that with a barge pole, politically

Ubbquittious

High rise in Dublin would do wonders to make the place even uglier