What have we come to

omega man · 09-02-2020 3:49pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

You'd really want to examine the demographics of those who voted SF. They're not all track suit wearing single parent drug takers who want foreva homes.
Despite that continual generalisation.

I love those bitter lemons.

Never mentioned the demographic you mentioned here but that’s your mindset.
Plenty of people working or studying who think they’re owed a better living too.

Duke of Url · 09-02-2020 3:49pm

FF and FG domestic policies simply don’t suit today’s voters.

boetstark · 09-02-2020 3:49pm

Cupatae wrote: »

Are we living in the same country? we are still on about ireland right? Have you ever been to a mythical place called Limerick hospital?

I have personally experienced 2 examples of UHL. A&E is an issue but once admitted the care and professionalism is top notch

James Brown · 09-02-2020 3:50pm

It's all sour grapes and whinging.
Tough to lose out but it's great for Ireland.
No longer is FF going to get in by default because FG messed up or vice versa. It's a great time.
The disgusting attitude of posters and the media was shameful.
These voters didn't fall out of the sky. Many have likely previously voted FF/FG.
It can only mean good news for a healthier political spectrum. No guaranteed FF/FG see-saw of cronyism.
It's great.

Charles Babbage · 09-02-2020 3:52pm

DM1983 wrote: »

I'm scared by this. Genuinely. I don't care about their connection to the troubles, it's in the past, but SF policies will ruin the economy. They will without doubt drive investment out of the country.

In all likelihood, FFG will have one more electoral term to address the issues that decided this election. These issues ultimately are based on inequality. I am a strong FG supporter but I would support major, major increases in inheritance tax. This is how you tackle inequality in the long term. Generational wealth has to be redistributed in society. The typical FFG base won't like it but that's the answer to protect the country for the future.

Can't blame populism if you choose to ignore root cause.

But inheritance tax is the last thing FG will propose increasing. Perhaps we need a formula where you can pass on a house but not the site value, so that you do not benefit just because your granny happened to live near a new LUAS line.

What we need is the Kenny Report 1973, perhaps this can be implemented by its 50th anniversary and if the value of land drops then many problems will be mitigated.

smurgen · 09-02-2020 3:52pm

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Massive sense of entitlement in this country.

Want all the reward without hard work.

Like Maria Bailey?

James Brown · 09-02-2020 3:53pm

smurgen wrote: »

Like Maria Bailey?

Alan Farrell.

GooglePlus · 09-02-2020 3:54pm

About time there was a shake up, it'll keep the marble in the mouth lads in the Dáil on their toes and provides them with some insight into how people are feeling on the ground.

FG and FF have had their heads in the clouds for too long now.

09-02-2020 3:55pm

I see sheep wrote: »

Ha ha good lad, keep making IRA jokes, that went well for ye/media this time :P Up the shinners

Oddly enough I didn't mean for it to be an IRA joke. Just an estimate of what I expect to happen to the economy.

Cupatae wrote: »

So whats the alternative ? vote in FF or FG again and keep the status quo going? pander to the high earners and corporations? and everything else is secondary ? I can see how 100k+ earners think theirs nothing wrong with the country it d be hard to see the misery from there ivory towers.

The alternative? I dunno. Honestly, I don't. However, I find voting in SF to be similar to the US reaction of voting Trump in. Going with something that you know will be awful just because the others are known to be bad already.

TBH I just hope that we don't see FF/FG be cleared after a SF term in office. I'd love to see Irish people seeking a complete reform of the political process in Ireland, and a removal of all the existing parties. Start from the beginning again.

As for the 100k'ers, the ones I know complain about the same things that other people do. They're forking out a lot in direct and indirect taxation. Just as everyone else is. Few of them are living in ivory towers of any kind.

wexfordman2 · 09-02-2020 3:58pm

noodler wrote: »

It's an interesting, if utterly deranged, case of whataboutery right there.

The attempt to talk away SF's role in recent and even present criminality is quite disingenuous.

It's not whataboutary at all. It's a simple question, what timescale is appropriate before we can move.in from the past ? Let us know please , what is an acceptable time frame ?

And it's interesting that you totally ignored the rest of my post. Would you care to explain, how we in the republic voted specificly to get SF into power sharing in the north, yet on the other hand recoil at the idea of them sharing power in the south ?

Can someone square that circle for me please ?

Tomrota · 09-02-2020 3:59pm

Democracy is action. FF/FG will have to actually improve the country rather than sitting on their arse. We are a wealthy country, there is no reason why we shouldn’t have similar levels of public investment as the Netherlands or the Nordic countries. We have dismal infrastructure of public transport and a crumbling healthcare system. Coupled with this high levels of homelessness and the diabolical job the government has done in regards to housing. This is a result of then neoliberalist FF/FG governance since the foundation of the state. People want change and people on here just seem to want to sit on the M50 for five hours a day, and when they get sick be stuck on a trolley in the hospital, or if they are younger have no prospects of owning their own property.

This election is great in many ways. Maybe the government will actually act now and take voters seriously. We also now have a highly elastic electorate which will result in Sinn Fein/Social Democrats/Greens being able to garner more votes over the years. It’s a great day for Irish Democracy when those two corporatist centrist neoliberal duopolistic FF/FG alliance dies.

Cupatae · 09-02-2020 4:00pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Oddly enough I didn't mean for it to be an IRA joke. Just an estimate of what I expect to happen to the economy.

The alternative? I dunno. Honestly, I don't. However, I find voting in SF to be similar to the US reaction of voting Trump in. Going with something that you know will be awful just because the others are known to be bad already.

TBH I just hope that we don't see FF/FG be cleared after a SF term in office. I'd love to see Irish people seeking a complete reform of the political process in Ireland, and a removal of all the existing parties. Start from the beginning again.

As for the 100k'ers, the ones I know complain about the same things that other people do. They're forking out a lot in direct and indirect taxation. Just as everyone else is. Few of them are living in ivory towers of any kind.

Its a case of how much money is enough money? if ur on mental money like that why are you even complaing about tax, if they took 40 k tax off someone on a 100k your still living cushy, going by the comments on here quite a few live in em!

As for trump, for as outrageous as he is, his not ****ing about and america is booming..

Eric Cartman · 09-02-2020 4:02pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

The population of morons and scumbags is growing in this country rapidly, thats why sinn fein got so many votes. singing about the black and tans in this day and age, idiots.

Absolutely 100% a disgrace on our nation

wexfordman2 · 09-02-2020 4:04pm

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Massive sense of entitlement in this country.

Want all the reward without hard work.

That's an interesting generalisation of nealry 30% of the electorate in a country with nearly full employment.

Cupatae · 09-02-2020 4:05pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Absolutely 100% a disgrace on our nation

The singing is abit much, but the real 100% disgrace is wanting to commemorate the black and tans,

For all this talk about IRA people are quick to forget they were the ones fighting for this country...

Cupatae · 09-02-2020 4:06pm

wexfordman2 wrote: »

That's an interesting generalisation of nealry 30% of the electorate in a country with nearly full employment.

its hilarious really Its all the SF track suit wears dole scroungers voting!

FF and FG have the country at 100% employment!

which is it lad haha

09-02-2020 4:06pm

Cupatae wrote: »

Its a case of how much money is enough money? if ur on mental money like that why are you even complaing about tax, if they took 40 k tax off someone on a 100k your still living cushy, going by the comments on here quite a few live in em!

Well, in my experience, expenses tend to rise in tandem with increases in income as your standard of living meets expectations.

Still, it doesn't matter. We'll be seeing what happens.

As for trump, for as outrageous as he is, his not ****ing about and america is booming..

True, but Trump isn't a socialist, and the US economy has always had far more going for it, than the Irish economy in so many different ways.

But, I'll bow out of this discussion since I don't think it'll achieve anything.

I do genuinely hope that SF proves me wrong, and leads Ireland into success.

Gringo180 · 09-02-2020 4:07pm

Get in the Shinners. Mary Lou we believe in you. The nation wants change. The status quo has failed its people. Fine Gael loved the Nazis and Fine Fail are the most corrupt party in first world society.

09-02-2020 4:10pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

It's all sour grapes and whinging.
Tough to lose out but it's great for Ireland.
No longer is FF going to get in by default because FG messed up or vice versa. It's a great time.
The disgusting attitude of posters and the media was shameful.
These voters didn't fall out of the sky. Many have likely previously voted FF/FG.
It can only mean good news for a healthier political spectrum. No guaranteed FF/FG see-saw of cronyism.
It's great.

Well said

Exciting times

Still waters · 09-02-2020 4:10pm

I see sheep wrote: »

Short version: You've been lucky in life and are happy so that's all that matters.
If anybody is struggling it's their fault.

Well if lucky involves working 6 days a week, never having been on social welfare even during the height of the recession getting up at 4.30 in the morning to drive a truck for minimum wage for 60/70 hours a week when employers had their pick of workers, if it involves a borrowing money to start a small business that has failed spectacularly due to bad decisions,luck and weather, if it involves working morning noon and night to see something you like doing barely pay the mortgage, if it involves being in my shed of a sunday under a machine to get it going for monday morning so you can cover the loan you got to make life that little bit better, if it involves looking at the weather every night hoping theres 2 days in a row promised good so you can finish a job and get paid,if it involves working for builders,developers, farmers who all have your number the day they want you but lose it for a month or two when it comes to payment ,well then yes i guess i am lucky

blanch152 · 09-02-2020 4:11pm

wexfordman2 wrote: »

That's an interesting generalisation of nealry 30% of the electorate in a country with nearly full employment.

We have full employment for those who want to work.

There is a significant proportion of the population, maybe as much as 30% who are not interested in work. We have the highest percentage of such households in the EU.

Cupatae · 09-02-2020 4:12pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, in my experience, expenses tend to rise in tandem with increases in income as your standard of living meets expectations.

Still, it doesn't matter. We'll be seeing what happens.

True, but Trump isn't a socialist, and the US economy has always had far more going for it, than the Irish economy in so many different ways.

But, I'll bow out of this discussion since I don't think it'll achieve anything.

I do genuinely hope that SF proves me wrong, and leads Ireland into success.

Thats a strange one, perhaps a slightly less extravagant lifestyle, just ever so slightly may serve them well. I mean if they ll struggle cause of a tax cut, imagine what it must be like on minimum wage! **shudder**

Gringo180 · 09-02-2020 4:14pm

blanch152 wrote: »

We have full employment for those who want to work.

There is a significant proportion of the population, maybe as much as 30% who are not interested in work. We have the highest percentage of such households in the EU.

For the people who dont want to work thats up to them to live a life of poverty. There money goes back into the economy anyways it isnt lost like all the multi billionaire tax dodgers we have that have there residency registered outside Ireland but have made there fortune here. Thats the people we should be looking to hit hard.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 09-02-2020 4:14pm

I suspect its a lot of the younger voters who dont actually know what Sinn Fein have really stood for down through the years.

Combined with people being fed up with the same old FF/FG governments think that by voting for another major party they might see improvements.

To be honest in my constituency there wasn't a lot of good candidates to choose from, it was like voting for the least bad from a bottom of the barrel selection.

I am interested to see how Sinn Fein manage to make good in their pie in the sky promises, I only hope that it's not to the detriment of the country and that the working middle aren't further squeezed to pay for all this wonderful 'free' stuff they are going to give to everyone.

Tomrota · 09-02-2020 4:15pm

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Massive sense of entitlement in this country.

Want all the reward without hard work.

Because we have the best healthcare in Europe right?

And we are the 17th most contested city in the world right down with all the third world countries. Yes we are so entitled sitting on the M50 for four and half hours a day. Or waiting on trolleys in record numbers in hospitals. The state doesn’t even ensure every citizen has access to healthcare unlike most wealthy EU states. What proud metrics of our successful and high quality of life. Unheard of on the continent.

I love people who say we are one of the most successful and wealthy economies in the world and how lucky we are to be born here. Then why can’t we get public transport, healthcare, or social services anywhere near continental European levels, never mind Nordic levels?

Oh yeah, cause we’re stuck in FF/FG limbo.

Cupatae · 09-02-2020 4:15pm

Still waters wrote: »

Well if lucky involves working 6 days a week, never having been on social welfare even during the height of the recession getting up at 4.30 in the morning to drive a truck for minimum wage for 60/70 hours a week when employers had their pick of workers, if it involves a borrowing money to start a small business that has failed spectacularly due to bad decisions,luck and weather, if it involves working morning noon and night to see something you like doing barely pay the mortgage, if it involves being in my shed of a sunday under a machine to get it going for monday morning so you can cover the loan you got to make life that little bit better, if it involves looking at the weather every night hoping theres 2 days in a row promised good so you can finish a job and get paid,if it involves working for builders,developers, farmers who all have your number the day they want you but lose it for a month or two when it comes to payment ,well then yes i guess i am lucky

Shame on all those people on the dole! we should erect a statue of you! ironically enough you are basically a victim of what you are defending lol how does doing that till you re 67-68 tickle you?

Stockholm syndrome at its finest

Cupatae · 09-02-2020 4:17pm

blanch152 wrote: »

We have full employment for those who want to work.

There is a significant proportion of the population, maybe as much as 30% who are not interested in work. We have the highest percentage of such households in the EU.

Dont worry the current government has a great thing called Tursa nua to force those 30% to work, atleast when they need to make the figures look good anyway.

perrito caliente · 09-02-2020 4:18pm

Cupatae wrote: »

Shame on all those people on the dole! we should erect a statue of you! ironically enough you are basically a victim of what you are defending lol how does doing that till your 67-68 tickle you?

Stockholm syndrome at its finest

It's often the slave that hates to see another man free.

drunkmonkey · 09-02-2020 4:18pm

Cupatae wrote: »

Shame on all those people on the dole!

Should we give them a medal. The dole should be temporary not a career choice we've made it into.

09-02-2020 4:19pm

Cupatae wrote: »

Thats a strange one, perhaps a slightly less extravagant lifestyle, just ever so slightly may serve them well. I mean if they ll struggle cause of a tax cut, imagine what it must be like on minimum wage! **shudder**

Many of them probably started on minimum wage. I did. The point is more about reaching the top of their industry and paying so much in tax, that they'd be better off staying at mid-management. The whole point of working yourself so hard is to gain the monetary benefits that such positions bring. If the government is going to hit them for that, then what's the point bothering at all?

I can't imagine many professionals of those levels staying in Ireland if they're taxed so heavily, since SF will be wanting more revenue to fund their extravagant improvements, especially when/if their tax base shrinks. Such professionals are in demand in Europe and Asia. It'll be interesting how many stay to weather the experience. (I'm not talking about those born into money)

Still waters · 09-02-2020 4:20pm

Cupatae wrote: »

Shame on all those people on the dole! we should erect a statue of you! ironically enough you are basically a victim of what you are defending lol how does doing that till you re 67-68 tickle you?

Stockholm syndrome at its finest

Did i mention people.on the dole

drunkmonkey · 09-02-2020 4:20pm

Why are all the Rá heads so delighted, does anyone believe that FF and FG will go into government with the shinners as opposed to each other. Can't see it happening.

riclad · 09-02-2020 4:20pm

Fianna fail wrecked the economy, i think its a protest vote against fine gael.
people are tired of fine gael.
So vote for labour or sinn fein.we had the peace process, people no longer think of sinn fein as some kind of paramilitary political party.

brendanwalsh · 09-02-2020 4:22pm

endacl wrote: »

Short memories + shorter consciences

Who are these boys can I ask ?
Thanks in advance

Still waters · 09-02-2020 4:22pm

perrito caliente wrote: »

It's often the slave that hates to see another man free.

The country is full of slaves working for people like yourself, no offence but you shouldn't treat the dole as an income but a stepping stone to betterment and self fulfillment

Gringo180 · 09-02-2020 4:22pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Why are all the Rá heads so delighted, does anyone believe that FG and FG will go into government with the shinners as opposed to each other. Can't see it happening.

By your logic people who support Fine Gael are Fascist loving Nazi's. You know there history right?

Cupatae · 09-02-2020 4:23pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Many of them probably started on minimum wage. I did. The point is more about reaching the top of their industry and paying so much in tax, that they'd be better off staying at mid-management. The whole point of working yourself so hard is to gain the monetary benefits that such positions bring. If the government is going to hit them for that, then what's the point bothering at all?

I can't imagine many professionals of those levels staying in Ireland if they're taxed so heavily, since SF will be wanting more revenue to fund their extravagant improvements, especially when/if their tax base shrinks. Such professionals are in demand in Europe and Asia. It'll be interesting how many stay to weather the experience. (I'm not talking about those born into money)

It is, but it reaches a point of ridiculous aswell, im on a decent wage i dont even waste my time looking at the tax because i have enough, and im not on 100K+ its a case of greed it really is, i get it the point is to earn more, but if you can carry more of the burden than you should as well i mean if your earning crazy money whats the problem with shouldering abit more WHEN YOU CAN,

Better luck to them id be all for calling there bluff lets see if they do go to asia and those places, i know in my own career i could earn a far better wage abroad but i like Ireland and amnt soley motivated by money.

Strumms · 09-02-2020 4:24pm

BanditLuke wrote: »

FFG protected the church pedos for years.

No doubt, meanwhile, a Sinn Fein actually HAD paedophiles in their own ranks, Seamus Marley being one, this was known to the SF hierarchy who did SFA about it, so that’s paedophiles AND rapists who have had prominent positions and influence in this party.

drunkmonkey · 09-02-2020 4:25pm

Gringo180 wrote: »

By your logic people who support Fine Gael are Fascist loving Nazi's. You know there history right?

You think FF will go in with Sinn Fein, not likely.

Eric Cartman · 09-02-2020 4:26pm

wexfordman2 wrote: »

That's an interesting generalisation of nealry 30% of the electorate in a country with nearly full employment.

We have 1 million people not paying any tax at all , we have tens of thousands trying to get a free house, 30% of the electorate stand to gain if the bullshít is true

Eric Cartman · 09-02-2020 4:26pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You think FF will go in with Sinn Fein, not likely.

I hope not, hopefully MM wont do a deal with the devil

09-02-2020 4:29pm

Cupatae wrote: »

It is, but it reaches a point of ridiculous aswell, im on a decent wage i dont even waste my time looking at the tax because i have enough, and im not on 100K+ its a case of greed it really is, i get it the point is to earn more, but if you can carry more of the burden than you should as well i mean if your earning crazy money whats the problem with shouldering abit more WHEN YOU CAN,

Better luck to them id be all for calling there bluff lets see if they do go to asia and those places, i know in my own career i could earn a far better wage abroad but i like Ireland and amnt soley motivated by money.

Ok. Fair enough. I left business management with it's good money to become a teacher, so I'm not driven by the desire to make money (or the status that comes with it)... but most of my friends from that other time are... and those without families, will likely leave.

Larbre34 · 09-02-2020 4:31pm

I'm a traditional Labour voter and I didn't vote Sinn Féin any preference yesterday.

That said, the whole dismissive, arrogant, sneering, bitter, churlish and naive attitude in this thread is exactly why SF has done so well.

Yes Sinn Féin IRA blew people up, but if you go back far enough you could say Fine Gael led a war against other Irish men and women and destroyed them for dissent.

The point is, its 2020 and nobody cares. At least not enough of the voters in our young population, the largest demographic of 15-40 whose formative years came after 1994.

It would do people like those voicing their opinions on here to get with the programme and get used to it.

Gringo180 · 09-02-2020 4:40pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You think FF will go in with Sinn Fein, not likely.

I dont care. Im just happy that change is coming for the future. FG and FF combined have destroyed this country.

Duke of Url · 09-02-2020 4:47pm

The reality is that most people who voted for Sinn Fein was due to them highlighting the domestic issues in Ireland the FG and FF didn’t solve.

The funny thing is that the same voters don’t expect SF to solve these issues either.

I believe a lot of die-hard SF supporters are been given a false belief that the country has turned to supports SF as a party.

All we have done is to give the next party a chance. Let’s see what happens but nobody is expecting much.

Wanderer78 · 09-02-2020 4:49pm

If many voters went for a highly questionable party such as sf, what does that say about the alternatives!

Eric Cartman · 09-02-2020 4:50pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

If many voters went for a highly questionable party such as sf, what does that say about the alternatives!

Very true, our only hope for the future is is SF manage to get any of their crazy high cost policies over the line that it encourages the formation of a right wing party and spurs a vote for them

Cupatae · 09-02-2020 4:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Ok. Fair enough. I left business management with it's good money to become a teacher, so I'm not driven by the desire to make money (or the status that comes with it)... but most of my friends from that other time are... and those without families, will likely leave.

I just wanna say i wasnt directing any of my comments at you personally more of just how i see it in general, id agree some probably will.. i think alot will stay aswell, but as you say its a case of wait and see, i personally think the shake up will be good, even if its short lived, it shows FF and FG they dont have free reign and there is appetite for change if they dont get it right.

BanditLuke · 09-02-2020 4:58pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

As with Brexit, this is the democratic will of the people and it is for the "establishment" now to do some soul searching and figure out why this happened.

This is a cry for help by those who feel left behind and those who quite reasonably wanted an end to the duopoly of FFG.

It's not my personal preference but i hope they do the state some service because i want this country to do well.

We all want the country to do well but it has to be everybody together not just the few that FFG has gone to bat for since the foundation of the state. Nearly every single person i would know is working and tbh the majority are stressed out to death with rents, mortgages, insurance, child care, health care etc... As stated before it's sfa use having full employment in the country if it's only the small minority making money from it.

Also there are people yesterday who voted SF who haven't the foggiest about the troubles nor do they care because they where not born or where too young to be aware. The more FFG and the establishment continue to hanker on about the past the more they will become irrelevant

Duke of Url · 09-02-2020 4:59pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

If many voters went for a highly questionable party such as sf, what does that say about the alternatives!

Well there is Proof that FG and FF who have experience running a country could not deliver on Health, Housing and Crime for decades.

SF have 0 experience in running a country and don’t even know what’s involved.

Just sit back and watch what happens

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What have we come to

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