Snugborough Interchange Upgrade

daymobrew · 20-01-2017 1:25pm #1

FCC is proposing a significant upgrade of the big Snugborough Road junction.

Upgrading of existing five-arm signalised junction at Snugborough Rd./N3 off-ramp/L3020/Main St. including widening of all road approaches, provision of new high quality pedestrian/cyclist facilities and new public transport priority measures.

Removal of right hand turning movement from Waterville onto the Snugborough Road.

Removal of existing roundabout at Snugborough Rd/N3 on-ramp/Waterville and construction of 2 new signalised junctions in its place.

Construction of new bridge structures over the N3 and over the Tolka Valley and river.

Construction of infrastructure to facilitate diversion of the existing 1200mm diameter 9C foul sewer.

Existing ramped access to Tolka Valley Park to be replaced with access at similar grade.

IrishCycle.com wrote about it and how it is not following design guidelines.

Submissions can be made online until 23 February.

athtrasna · 20-01-2017 2:55pm

As someone living in Waterville that sounds horrendous!

amtc · 21-01-2017 2:10pm

I live on Waterville. This is nuts!

daymobrew · 21-01-2017 3:19pm

amtc wrote: »

I live on Waterville. This is nuts!

I think that Waterville residents will be able to turn left as usual (towards the Centre or the village). To turn right onto Snugborough Road will involve coming out on the northern side of the estate, close to the Aquatic Centre.

I'm curious, can you elaborate on why it is nuts?

athtrasna · 21-01-2017 4:28pm

daymobrew wrote: »

I think that Waterville residents will be able to turn left as usual (towards the Centre or the village). To turn right onto Snugborough Road will involve coming out on the northern side of the estate, close to the Aquatic Centre.

I'm curious, can you elaborate on why it is nuts?

Because there are already traffic problems at both traffic access points from Waterville to the Snugborough Road and this plan looks like the council don't care if it affects us if it will make things better for everyone else

daymobrew · 22-01-2017 10:08am

athtrasna wrote: »

Because there are already traffic problems at both traffic access points from Waterville to the Snugborough Road and this plan looks like the council don't care if it affects us if it will make things better for everyone else

Thanks for the explanation.
Be sure to make a submission highlighting these issues. If you can suggest alternate implementations it would be good (so that you can later say "I told you so" to them).

athtrasna · 14-02-2017 12:07am

Made my submission last night. Only 8 online submissions at that stage. Shocked at the apathy!

daymobrew · 14-02-2017 5:38pm

athtrasna wrote: »

Made my submission last night. Only 8 online submissions at that stage. Shocked at the apathy!

You'll get over the shock :-)
If you look at the other consultations many are single digits.

The url to submit changed since I posted it. It is now: https://consult.fingal.ie/en/consultation/proposed-part-viii-snugborough-interchange-upgrade (they changed xiii to viii).

There are 13 submissions now. It seems that I cannot read the submissions - I may have to make a submission to read the others.

daymobrew · 14-02-2017 5:57pm

athtrasna wrote: »

Made my submission last night.

Would you be able to post your submission here so that it might encourage others to make a submission. Or PM a copy to me to inspire me.

athtrasna · 15-02-2017 12:40am

daymobrew wrote: »

Would you be able to post your submission here so that it might encourage others to make a submission. Or PM a copy to me to inspire me.

Are you in Waterville? My entire submission is about their preposterous plans for the roundabout at the bottom of Waterville and subsequent traffic diversions. Thousands of people live in Waterville but it appears we don't matter

Larbre34 · 15-02-2017 8:25am

Ye need to get the public reps on board about this, plenty of agitation of the ward Councillors, if you go about it the right way 8 or 10 submissions from Waterville can have the effect of hundreds. Ask for a public information meeting

athtrasna · 15-02-2017 8:29am

Larbre34 wrote: »

Ye need to get the public reps on board about this, plenty of agitation of the ward Councillors, if you go about it the right way 8 or 10 submissions from Waterville can have the effect of hundreds. Ask for a public information meeting

Roderic O'Gorman has been very helpful and did a leaflet drop letting everyone know what's going on. Hadn't contacted the other helpful councillors yet but will do that.

daymobrew · 15-02-2017 10:11am

athtrasna wrote: »

Are you in Waterville?

No, but any submission I would make should still be considered.

Did you propose an alternate solution? It's always good to do this.

Gio2 · 20-02-2017 7:58pm

I've already send in my submission, But just saw an info leaflet in window of Spar Waterville. Hopefully it will encourage more residents to make a submission

daymobrew · 21-02-2017 11:00am

Is anyone willing to post their submission here, to give others some ideas?

ongarboy · 21-02-2017 6:06pm

daymobrew wrote: »

Is anyone willing to post their submission here, to give others some ideas?

Why do people need ideas handed or prompted to them though? Surely if someone has a natural grievance or issue to the proposed plans or will be tangibly impacted by them, they can easily articulate them accordingly in their own observation/objections rather than copying others observations that may or may not affect them. I'm struggling to understand why someone would object to something but then say they can't think of reasons or ideas why.... ??!!

jack presley · 21-02-2017 6:27pm

ongarboy wrote: »

Why do people need ideas handed or prompted to them though? Surely if someone has a natural grievance or issue to the proposed plans or will be tangibly impacted by them, they can easily articulate them accordingly in their own observation/objections rather than copying others observations that may or may not affect them. I'm struggling to understand why someone would object to something but then say they can't think of reasons or ideas why.... ??!!

I'd say it's to get an idea of how to format and present the document as opposed to the actual grievance? Obviously a well structured argument laid out properly will have more of an impact than some haphazard list of complaints and if you haven't made an objection to something before or written something like this, it might not be as easy to articulate as you suggest and it would be useful to see how others have laid out their submission.

daymobrew · 22-02-2017 11:41am

ongarboy wrote: »

Why do people need ideas handed or prompted to them though? Surely if someone has a natural grievance or issue to the proposed plans or will be tangibly impacted by them, they can easily articulate them accordingly in their own observation/objections rather than copying others observations that may or may not affect them. I'm struggling to understand why someone would object to something but then say they can't think of reasons or ideas why.... ??!!

Other submissions may discuss additional impacts that I may not have thought about but would also have concerns about. I would not copy observations that I did not agree with.

And what jack presley said.

ongarboy · 22-02-2017 7:12pm

I wasn't thinking of it from that angle - that makes sense alright!:)

blanch152 · 23-02-2017 11:37pm

ongarboy wrote: »

Why do people need ideas handed or prompted to them though? Surely if someone has a natural grievance or issue to the proposed plans or will be tangibly impacted by them, they can easily articulate them accordingly in their own observation/objections rather than copying others observations that may or may not affect them. I'm struggling to understand why someone would object to something but then say they can't think of reasons or ideas why.... ??!!

completely agree with this, there is nothing worse than people just copying and pasting an objection and putting it in just for the sake of it.

Independent thinking seems to be a thing of the past.

athtrasna · 23-02-2017 11:52pm

All closed now. Fingers crossed the council see sense

Former Former · 24-02-2017 12:22am

athtrasna wrote: »

All closed now. Fingers crossed the council see sense

I can see why someone in Waterville might not be happy with the aspects on their side of it, but overall that junction is a nightmare and widening the approach roads should make a big difference, so I'm happy enough with it.

blanch152 · 24-02-2017 1:23am

Former Former wrote: »

I can see why someone in Waterville might not be happy with the aspects on their side of it, but overall that junction is a nightmare and widening the approach roads should make a big difference, so I'm happy enough with it.

Problem is that the vast majority of people who are happy with something aren't listened to by councillors as they don't say anything, whereas the small numbers of NIMBYs and narrow-focussed protestors get a hearing because they organise a small number of highly motivated objectors.

lucernarian · 24-02-2017 8:26am

I don't see how approach roads would be widened, especially on Main St. to Blanchardstown and then Snugborough Road past the centre. The Waterville issue does seem fairly severe - which road has the longest delays and most congestion on its approach?

athtrasna · 24-02-2017 8:27am

blanch152 wrote: »

Problem is that the vast majority of people who are happy with something aren't listened to by councillors as they don't say anything, whereas the small numbers of NIMBYs and narrow-focussed protestors get a hearing because they organise a small number of highly motivated objectors.

There are thousands of people in Waterville, we're not narrow focused we just want to be able to get out of our estate!

The second bridge over the N3 will be fantastic but we shouldn't have to suffer for it!

lucernarian · 24-02-2017 8:28am

athtrasna wrote: »

There are thousands of people in Waterville, we're not narrow focused we just want to be able to get out of our estate!

The second bridge over the N3 will be fantastic but we shouldn't have to suffer for it!

In fairness it's not the only entrance? "Suffering" is not what I'd call it.

athtrasna · 24-02-2017 8:36am

lucernarian wrote: »

In fairness it's not the only entrance? "Suffering" is not what I'd call it.

At the moment you can go out at the hospital side and turn right at the roundabout to go up to the hundreds of companies based around Ballycoolin. There already significant delays at the roundabout.

The rest of Waterville use the exit towards the aquatic centre to access the Snugborough Road in both directions. Delays there too. This plan will push all the traffic going towards Ballycoolin to use this exit too. I live down one of the side roads off the Waterville distributor road, as it is it can be hard to get onto the distributor road at times, adding so many extra cars will make it impossible.

daymobrew · 24-02-2017 11:03am

athtrasna wrote: »

At the moment you can go out at the hospital side and turn right at the roundabout to go up to the hundreds of companies based around Ballycoolin. There already significant delays at the roundabout.

The distance to Ballycoolin and even eBay/PayPal sounds like an ideal one for cycling. :-) (I know many people who won't even walk 1km so I know that my comment is preaching to the choir)

dsix · 24-02-2017 12:29pm

Former Former wrote: »

I can see why someone in Waterville might not be happy with the aspects on their side of it, but overall that junction is a nightmare and widening the approach roads should make a big difference, so I'm happy enough with it.

I don't know what is the budget for this "upgrade" but it is a fairly short minded one. It will just move the traffic from queueing in Snugborough road to queue in the new enlarged bridge. All of that by making the life of the residents even more of a problem there (for both driving and cycling).

If they really want to sort out the traffic problems, they should start putting money away for better PT options (like extending the new luas), because with the new NSC and Rotunda moving to Connolly things aren't going to improve.

Former Former · 24-02-2017 2:59pm

dsix wrote: »

I don't know what is the budget for this "upgrade" but it is a fairly short minded one. It will just move the traffic from queueing in Snugborough road to queue in the new enlarged bridge. All of that by making the life of the residents even more of a problem there (for both driving and cycling).

If they really want to sort out the traffic problems, they should start putting money away for better PT options (like extending the new luas), because with the new NSC and Rotunda moving to Connolly things aren't going to improve.

See, upgrading public transport is a nice idea - but Fingal County Council can't do that. They can only work on what is within their remit. And extending the Luas is a 10-15 year (minimum) project, what do we do in the meantime?

But you're right, things aren't going to improve; that's why this has to be done. The junction is a mess, it has to be fixed.

The Dark Knight · 24-02-2017 10:57pm

Former Former wrote:

But you're right, things aren't going to improve; that's why this has to be done. The junction is a mess, it has to be fixed.

I agree it has to be fixed..... But this solution is not a fix. There isn't one single free flow movement.
It's just going to serve as a slightly bigger car park.
I never thought Fingal Co Co could have designed anything worse than N3-BlanchRoadSouth junction - but they've managed to.

Snugborough Interchange Upgrade

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