What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

biko · 17-06-2020 2:15pm

In the last thread about this issue I said look at UK.
If people are happy with how UK have managed it's immigration then I understand why they want it here too.
Those that see issues with the way UK has handled immigration might be less inclined to accept the same type of immigration.

Perhaps we should just have a referendum so the people can speak its will?
It would help guide the politicians that may not know what the Irish people want.

o1s1n · 17-06-2020 2:17pm

nthclare wrote: »

Like a square lemon that doesn't fit into in a hole made for a potato..

Using word's like diatribe makes your comment as sensible as using a sieve to drain a lake..

So I'd try something less inflatable for a response than diatribe...

Bitter sweet and all that jazz

Have you seen how many doctors working in our hospitals aren't Irish?

How many Philipina nurses work in our wards?

How many high paying roles in IT companies are populated with people from all over the globe?

You do realise they're all immigrants too, right?

Wibbs · 17-06-2020 2:20pm

completedit wrote: »

I lived in Prague. Seems a multicultural city that does well. Huge Vietnamese population who seemed integrated. Big Russian population too and I've heard they can stick to themselves but I wasn't able to tell the difference. Then you have huge amounts of random immigrant groups and everyone gels together but it's all through English. You can live there and never utter a word of Czech. If English wasn't so dominant that would probably cause problems but Czechs are happy to adapt

True though the Czechs and the Czech Republic are overwhelmingly made up of White people. The Vietnamese, a demographic that are very much absent in social issues as an ethnic group anywhere in the world, make up under 30,000 people in a population of 10 million. There are far fewer Africans and Middle Easterners in the Czech republic than in Ireland with half her population.

The sad truth is some demographics cause more social issues than others. The darker the skin the more it kicks off and yep it's mostly down to an inherent "them and us" feeling in the native population, which increases same in the Black immigrant population.

Wibbs · 17-06-2020 2:21pm

KaneToad wrote: »

I couldn't care less about what food restrictions apply to various faiths. I do have a problem with sexual assaults on children for cultural/religious reasons.

If you don't understand the basics of why, you won't be able to find out how to stop it.

US2 · 17-06-2020 2:24pm

Is there one example in the history of the planet where different cultures have mixed successfully, think about it.

Beechwoodspark · 17-06-2020 2:28pm

I also would echo a call for a referendum on multiculturalism.

I sense a huge disconnect between politicians and the public on this. A disconnect that is getting wider by the week

A referendum Would give the politicians guidance on the direction this country wants to go

17-06-2020 2:31pm

Immigration is grand,likely wont affect me,i live in arsehole of nowhere.... (only serves those who belive in capitalism/need for perpetual econmic growth though).

Multiculturism only works,so long as noone trys rule the roost over anyone else,and everyone lives and let live (easy for me,as im v.private individual,so outside work/family,maybe interact with 5 people a month)

......ireland is full of nosey fcukers though,who cant even abide travellers,so its somewhat doomed to failure

Marcos · 17-06-2020 2:38pm

biko wrote: »

In the last thread about this issue I said look at UK.
If people are happy with how UK have managed it's immigration then I understand why they want it here too.
Those that see issues with the way UK has handled immigration might be less inclined to accept the same type of immigration.

Perhaps we should just have a referendum so the people can speak its will?
It would help guide the politicians that may not know what the Irish people want.

I think that the powers that be (and certain posters on here) know what the Irish people want* and are running scared of it. That's why they wouldn't have any referendum on it.

*Going by the 27th amendment to the constitution. Looking at the votes by constituency it's striking how much support there was even in communities that would be regarded as ultra liberal and had no bad experiences of multiculturalism. It passed with 79% voting for it, even the lowest vote in favour of the amendment in the country was in Dun Laoghaire Rathdown with 71%.

biko · 17-06-2020 2:48pm

I suppose when all you think about is race then every opponent seems racist.

BarnardsLoop · 17-06-2020 2:56pm

The irony of saying that on a thread full of racist scumbags whinging about how 'white people' are being threatened by the mere existence of non-white people here. Plenty of ye do nothing but think about race, clearly.

ollkiller · 17-06-2020 3:08pm

I don't know of you're aware but there are multiple
economic articles that confirm that immigration in the short term drives wages down but in the long term increases productivity and wage levels. So if your argument is that immigration decreases wage levels then you're wrong.

El_Duderino 09 · 17-06-2020 3:19pm

Wibbs wrote: »

...
Well it depends on a few things too. The US was a colony based on and needing immigrants. Secondly Irish people can "pass" as local far more easily than African, or Asian. Indeed that was one point of bitterness between African and Irish Americans in the 19th century, that the latter had an advantage out of the box over their darker brethren looking for employment.
...

Those are both factors. But they're both factors that impact the perceptions of the host nation. The Windrush generation in the UK might argue that simply being needed for their labour didn't mean they were welcomed. But Irish people's whiteness certainly helps a white host nation to forget to be racist towards them and facilitate them fitting in.

1800_Ladladlad · 17-06-2020 3:21pm

A lot of new accounts with low post counts around today. It's like they all text each other for emotional support.

El_Duderino 09 · 17-06-2020 3:21pm

ollkiller wrote: »

I don't know of you're aware but there are multiple
economic articles that confirm that immigration in the short term drives wages down but in the long term increases productivity and wage levels. So if your argument is that immigration decreases wage levels then you're wrong.

Decreases wage levels for poor people through increasing supply of labour, increases salaries for people who profit from cheap labour. Both things can be true.

17-06-2020 3:25pm

ollkiller wrote: »

I don't know of you're aware but there are multiple
economic articles that confirm that immigration in the short term drives wages down but in the long term increases productivity and wage levels. So if your argument is that immigration decreases wage levels then you're wrong.

The key word missing from your post is "legal".

Legal immigration is a good thing for an economy. It is the illegal migrants that are a met drain on resources. I really hate how people deliberately muddle the two in order to fit their agenda.

Bobblehats · 17-06-2020 3:29pm

BarnardsLoop wrote: »

Plenty of ye do nothing but think about race, clearly.

Something you seem destined to lose. Considering you can’t overcome the first hurdle..

ollkiller · 17-06-2020 3:32pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Decreases wage levels for poor people through increasing supply of labour, increases salaries for people who profit from cheap labour. Both things can be true.

It specifically relates to low wages. Short term dip, long term increase. The only reason i know it is economics was one of the subjects on my degree course. I'll dig out a link to the theory.

ollkiller · 17-06-2020 3:34pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The key word missing from your post is "legal".

Legal immigration is a good thing for an economy. It is the illegal migrants that are a met drain on resources. I really hate how people deliberately muddle the two in order to fit their agenda.

Well I was commenting on legal immigration. As for illegal immigration take that up with your government.

StringerBell · 17-06-2020 3:39pm

Immigration and multiculturalism are different things really but I feel both have been and are good, not just for Ireland but the world.

Extremists on either side of the spectrum tend to dominate the market when it comes to discussion unfortunately.

I do also think it must be handled correctly and that unfortunately also some cultures just clash a little too much to mix properly and struggle to find common ground.

Thelonious Monk · 17-06-2020 3:57pm

People bang on about multiculturalism failing in other countries because of a few things they see in the news or websites, when in reality multiculturalism works very well in the UK and France etc for the most part.
Personally I couldn't care less who lives in Ireland, it makes Dublin way more interesting to me anyway to have lots of different people and cultures here. People lamenting losing our own culture, well every generation is different anyway and our Grandparents would have been moaning about things changing too. People are people in my view and I don't care where my neighbour is from as long as they're decent folks.

biko · 17-06-2020 3:58pm

The best way to argue for multiculturalism is by showing examples of countries where it works.

Thelonious Monk · 17-06-2020 4:00pm

biko wrote: »

The best way to argue for multiculturalism is by showing examples of countries where it works.

The UK, Canada, Australia, Germany, Ireland...

biko · 17-06-2020 4:08pm

Good, now we're getting somewhere.
Can you elaborate on Germany?
Have the Turks integrated well?

biko · 17-06-2020 4:13pm

Possibly India or Uganda?

Thelonious Monk · 17-06-2020 4:16pm

biko wrote: »

Good, now we're getting somewhere.
Can you elaborate on Germany?
Have the Turks integrated well?

Yeah the Turks have. I used to go out with a girl from Hamburg, there are lovely parts of the city with loads of Turkish restaurants and cafes etc. Same in Berlin and many cities in Germany. The Turks make up about 5% of the German population and add a lot to the country if you ask me.

Lefty Bicek · 17-06-2020 4:22pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

People bang on about multiculturalism failing in other countries because of a few things they see in the news or websites, when in reality multiculturalism works very well in the UK and France etc for the most part.

What I've seen in the news, and on websites is political leaders of the UK and Germany - Cameron and Merkel - declare very clearly that multicuilturalism is a failed project, and needs to be superseded.

Some of us 'bang on' about it because we have personal experience of decades of living in these multi-kulti paradises.

They are a disaster.

OF course, despite this being done times, here, we still have this lazy and uninformed equivalence between 'immigration' and 'multiculturalism'.

They are not the same, and people reveal their non-qualification to speak about these things until they grasp the crucial difference.

Personally I couldn't care less who lives in Ireland, it makes Dublin way more interesting to me anyway to have lots of different people and cultures here. People lamenting losing our own culture, well every generation is different anyway and our Grandparents would have been moaning about things changing too. People are people in my view and I don't care where my neighbour is from as long as they're decent folks.

What you are referencing there is a multi-ethnic Ireland, not a multicultural one.

Do you know the difference ?

Multiculturalism is toxic, poisonous, failed BS. That is the difference.

kildare lad · 17-06-2020 4:22pm

Good to see the sudanese integrating in Australia aswell

https://www.sausageroll.com.au/news/australian-teen-girl-brutally-beaten-by-black-lives-activists-in-melbourne-cbd/

Richard Hillman · 17-06-2020 4:23pm

Big fan of immigration. EU/EEA immigration, Most Eastern European immigration, South/Central American immigration, Far East Asian immigration, Some Indian immigration, immigration from AUS/NZ, USA-Canada. That is all.

kildare lad · 17-06-2020 4:28pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Big fan of immigration. EU/EEA immigration, Most Eastern European immigration, South/Central American immigration, Far East Asian immigration, Some Indian immigration, immigration from AUS/NZ, USA-Canada. That is all.

You're missing out on a very large continent there lad

Thelonious Monk · 17-06-2020 4:29pm

kildare lad wrote: »

Good to see the sudanese integrating in Australia aswell

https://www.sausageroll.com.au/news/australian-teen-girl-brutally-beaten-by-black-lives-activists-in-melbourne-cbd/

Good to see the white man integrating down there too, the way they treated the aboriginals - including us Irish, our president even apologised.
My point is people are mostly the same everywhere, some good some bad.

Richard Hillman · 17-06-2020 4:30pm

kildare lad wrote: »

You're missing out on a very large continent there lad

Oh.... I did, didn't I.

kildare lad · 17-06-2020 4:36pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Oh.... I did, didn't I.

There's and edit option on your post if you want to change it before you get called something beginning with R

nthclare · 17-06-2020 4:36pm

o1s1n wrote: »

Have you seen how many doctors working in our hospitals aren't Irish?

How many Philipina nurses work in our wards?

How many high paying roles in IT companies are populated with people from all over the globe?

You do realise they're all immigrants too, right?

I never mentioned them you have

They're professional people who are adding to society and I think they're doing a great job.

Myself and the local foreign guy's and women get on great, so what's your point ????

Thelonious Monk · 17-06-2020 4:38pm

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

What you are referencing there is a multi-ethnic Ireland, not a multicultural one.

Do you know the difference ?

Multiculturalism is toxic, poisonous, failed BS. That is the difference.

Ok well for the most part it doesn't cause any problems, certainly not in Ireland anyway. I don't know where you all get the energy to allow this stuff to bother you, it's not going to change any time soon...
Focus on something positive, go out and clear up some rubbish or something.

I Am Nobody · 17-06-2020 4:40pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Good to see the white man integrating down there too, the way they treated the aboriginals - including us Irish, our president even apologised.
My point is people are mostly the same everywhere, some good some bad.

That much is true. Wasn't up until the mid 60's that the Aboriginals were classed as vermin?Or is my thinking mixed up.

FVP3 · 17-06-2020 4:41pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yeah the Turks have. I used to go out with a girl from Hamburg, there are lovely parts of the city with loads of Turkish restaurants and cafes etc. Same in Berlin and many cities in Germany. The Turks make up about 5% of the German population and add a lot to the country if you ask me.

They haven't really integrated because after 2 generations if you integrate you disappear. That said they are not a hostile force within Germany, either and its nice to get good kebabs.

kildare lad · 17-06-2020 4:42pm

I Am Nobody wrote: »

That much is true. Wasn't up until the mid 60's that the Aboriginals were classed as vermin?Or is my thinking mixed up.

Still are in all of places , when I was they're a lot of Aussies didn't like them . They've had huge social problems with alcohol that's doing their community no favours .

FVP3 · 17-06-2020 4:47pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Good to see the white man integrating down there too, the way they treated the aboriginals - including us Irish, our president even apologised.
My point is people are mostly the same everywhere, some good some bad.

The white man didn't integrate down there, he replaced.

WTF is the dwarf apologising for something which is Australian history? We didn't run that state. At this stage we've probably apologised more than the Spanish and Portuguese.

Anybody notice that they havent taken down or attacked the hundreds of Statues of Columbus around Spain, Italy and even South America.

sabat · 17-06-2020 4:48pm

I Am Nobody wrote: »

That much is true. Wasn't up until the mid 60's that the Aboriginals were classed as vermin?Or is my thinking mixed up.

They were legally part of the "flora and fauna" of Australia.

FVP3 · 17-06-2020 4:49pm

kildare lad wrote: »

Still are in all of places , when I was they're a lot of Aussies didn't like them . They've had huge social problems with alcohol that's doing their community no favours .

No he means literally. Literally as fauna I think. Animals.

But that turns out to be a myth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flora_and_Fauna_Act

Rodin · 17-06-2020 4:49pm

Should have an immigration system like Australia where only essential skils are brought in under a credit system

All asylum seeker applications should be sorted within weeks. If they're not eligible send them home

Nobody who is here only 5 years should get a passport.

suicide_circus · 17-06-2020 4:49pm

Implicit in the word multicultural is the notion that people largely won't mix and form a new cohesive cultural body but will rather remain seperate and retain their own cultures. At least one culture (presumably the native one) will always be dominant meaning that the other cultures must be "minority" cultures. Unless your minority culture is extremely strong in the areas like education and commerce it is likely that it will suffer to some degree of inequality of outcome which breeds discontent and resentment of the dominant culture.

Doomed to fail? Or is this simply the way it is and our bar for successful multiculturalism is set too high?

Eric Cartman · 17-06-2020 4:49pm

FVP3 wrote: »

They haven't really integrated because after 2 generations if you integrate you disappear. That said they are not a hostile force within Germany, either and its nice to get good kebabs.

the German unemployment rate in general is 3.9% , 28.5% of turks in Germany are unemployed. Kebabs are lovely, but thats not a sign of integration

from wikipedia :

Turkish immigrants make up Germany's second biggest immigrant group with almost 3 million people and are very poorly integrated, ranked last in Berlin Institute's integration ranking.[76][77]

During a speech in Düsseldorf in 2011, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan urged Turks in Germany to integrate, but not assimilate, a statement that caused a political outcry in Germany

Theres over 57 recognised Turkish gangs operating in Germany and they are the no.1 nationality for running prostitution and human trafficking rackets.

jmayo · 17-06-2020 4:51pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

People bang on about multiculturalism failing in other countries because of a few things they see in the news or websites, when in reality multiculturalism works very well in the UK and France etc for the most part.

So well now that we have how many thousand of immigrants and children of immigrants on terrorist watch lists in those countries ?
The kind of terrorists that hack the heads of soldiers on a city street in broad daylight, the type that hack the head of an elderly priest saying mass, the type that slaughter kids at a pop concert.

I think last count was something like more than 20,000 in UK that have islamist fundamentalist tendencies.

Likewise with France.
What about areas of Paris or British cities where people, women and young girl s in particular, fear to go because of intimidation from immigrants and the children of immigrants ?

Is that ok and is that alright because "for the most part" it works?

biko wrote: »

Possibly India or Uganda?

Well there were quite a few Indians in Uganda until that nice chap Idi decided to turf them out with about as much as they could carry.
Actually they were lucky in a way.

suicide_circus · 17-06-2020 4:53pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

. Kebabs are lovely, but thats not a sign of integration

The kebabs comment while funny (and true) is an insight into how a lot of people view multiculturalism - it provides tasty cuisines and an interesting mix of shades in a crowd of people - no more thought than that goes into it.

17-06-2020 4:53pm

Some have a history of integrating well into a society others do not. But its not acceptable to discuss this in polite society. So we are destined to repeat the mistakes of other western countries much further down the road than us.

Eric Cartman · 17-06-2020 4:55pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

The kebabs comment while funny (and true) is an insight into how a lot of people view multiculturalism - it provides tasty cuisines and an interesting mix of shades in a crowd of people - no more thought than that goes into it.

thats it, the "you're against illegal immigration, but you'll eat Chinese food" mob.

If all any group of immigrants ever did was come to a country and set up a takeaway nobody would have an issue.

na1 · 17-06-2020 4:59pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the German unemployment rate in general is 3.9% , 28.5% of turks in Germany are unemployed.

Irish travellers: "hold my beer..."

kildare lad · 17-06-2020 5:06pm

na1 wrote: »

Irish travellers: "hold my beer..."

Lol

Lefty Bicek · 17-06-2020 5:19pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Ok well for the most part it doesn't cause any problems, certainly not in Ireland anyway.

Because 'Ireland is different'. Think we've heard that before.

I don't know where you all get the energy to allow this stuff to bother you, it's not going to change any time soon...

If you had my energy levels, you wouldn't have to choose.

I speak up because silence is consent. I don't consent to the failed, and acknowledged-to-be-failed drivel of multiculturalism.

Focus on something positive, go out and clear up some rubbish or something.

Educating the half-baked about the difference between 'immigration', 'multi-ethnic', and 'multiculturalism' is a very positive thing to do.

I never tire of it.

What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

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