The glorious 12th

cgcsb · 12-07-2019 11:23am

Omackeral wrote: »

The sheer size of this one. I don't know how they manage to get them built so high with work and everything to go to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqjkdpuWsRU

So basically while working/middle class Catholic teenagers are going to school, doing summer courses in the Gealtacht, playing GAA, volunteering or travelling the protestant kids are doing this. It's a more primitive culture, based on pre-destination (the future has already been decided by god so nothing you can do now matters), academia and artistry are frowned upon. When you compare this culture to say, main stream Irish culture in terms of art, music, science, literature, folklore, language etc. it is clear that the loyalist culture has produced nothing at all of note and is ultimately backward looking, regressive and internationally irrelevant. Burning things is their sum of achievements.

cgcsb · 12-07-2019 11:25am

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

If they were any way serious about removing it at all, they'd have the army in doing it.

Maybe if direct rule is implemented after Oct, one of the very first things the Brits will do is outlaw hate organisations such as the orange order, and ban bonfires and such that incite religious intolerance or hatred.

Can you imagine the English tolerating the same craic going on around Bradford or Birmingham by Islamic extremists where they burned effigies, spreading their hatred and threatening and menacing everyone and anyone who tried to interfere?

That would be some irony.

Come October, most English people will continue to say: "There's a 'Northern' Ireland??"

cgcsb · 12-07-2019 11:28am

filbert the fox wrote: »

What chance of Mary Lou's all Ireland Government dealing with the Loyalist extremists? Presumably not by the previous method.

Mary Lou and SF will never be in government in a UI.

Dublin Spur · 12-07-2019 11:30am

It's all the fault of King James I - what a prick

The province is still ****ed up 400 years later

cgcsb · 12-07-2019 11:31am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I know. Its because nationalists fly Palestinian flags or else nationalists fly Palestinian flags just because unionists fly Israeli flags.

The only thing that unites them is that both of those idiots hate jews and muslims if they are honest.

I'd say for every nationalist flying flags, there's about 300 loyalists doing the same. Nationalist areas are much more low key, even the notorious Falls road only has a handful of permanent flags, mostly on memorials.

Strumms · 12-07-2019 11:32am

Dublin Spur wrote: »

I go to Belfast for gigs - the city center is a nice friendly place
I think the suburbs are a different story though

Same, I found the city super friendly, hotels, bars, asking directions in the street.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 12-07-2019 11:34am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If that is in anyway a common or general experience of Belfast it is remarkable that it has a tourist business at all. We will weekend in Belfast and go there many times in the year for many many years, even during the conflict/war, and I have never been asked 'What are you doing here fella?'.

You are remarkable to have experienced the 'cliched' Belfast on your first trip. Well done fella!

Cheers, you're welcome.

Up the 'RA and all that rubbish

ILoveYourVibes · 12-07-2019 11:35am

cgcsb wrote: »

I'd say for every nationalist flying flags, there's about 300 loyalists doing the same. Nationalist areas are much more low key, even the notorious Falls road only has a handful of permanent flags, mostly on memorials.

We're not really into the whole pageantry parade thing ..its not really us.

Even on st pats we stuff our parades with drag queens and horses.

citytillidie · 12-07-2019 11:41am

Dublin Spur wrote: »

It's all the fault of King James I - what a prick

The province is still ****ed up 400 years later

Yep as I say send them all down to the boyne let them commentate that battle no need to hold cities, towns and villages to ransom to get to march were they are not welcome and it would see a lot of the tension go away.

Gimme A Pound · 12-07-2019 11:41am

timthumbni wrote: »

Just to clarify that the bonfires on the 11th (or 10th nights in one case) are not normally anything to do with the OO. Also the majority of people who will attend the 12th parades today will not have attended the bonfires the night before.

Burning flags is silly on either side though not going to ruin my day either. It has to be remembered that for many here the Irish tricolour is and was associated with the IRA. Sure you still have people on here who still blab on about the union flag as the butchers apron etc. They shouldn’t be burned but in the grand scheme of things and certainly compared to the murder of a journalist recently it’s no biggie.

Regarding the 12th parades themselves they are fun family day outs. Now for those who are anti unionist or don’t like the sight of union flags, NI red hands etc etc then it’s obviously not going to be your bag. Like I wouldn’t feel comfortable going to st paddy’s day in Belfast for example. But that’s life. I just don’t go. The disruption is very temporary so wouldn’t bother me.

The parades in the country especially are very gentle affairs. Hard to get offended by an accordion band of young girls. (Well, unless you are a Tyrone gaa player by the looks of it)

The keyboard republican circle jerk of anti unionism on here is a sight to read sometimes. Some highlights include suggesting sterilisation and others calling in the army. I’m sure the 12th July and the 11th November are their most fun times of the year. Probably buy a new keyboard for each date.

Anyway I can hear pipe bands in the distance. (The horror.... the horror)

Instead of whatabouting and being passive aggressive, please bear in mind that it's an unpleasant, intimidatory situation for nationalists, and has painful connections for them. And nobody has to be a member of a republican circle jerk to understand this.

cgcsb · 12-07-2019 11:42am

timthumbni wrote: »

Where did you see this? The police will use discretion in these areas and not just on the 12th July. Ffs the holylands on st paddy’s day is like a scene from day of the dead only on buckfast. Loads of Tyrone culchie students singing songs about the ra. Taking after their County players obviously.

This law is broken regularly, especially in holiday towns etc. I regularly meet cops going past whilst I have a beer in hand. The police in general don’t mind unless you are acting the dick. But I suspect that you know that.

In saying that I wonder does my orange collarette perhaps give me some kind of immunity. You might be on to something here.

You can see all the plastic cups and bags of bukie on all the videos and the police doing nothing. You've a weird obsession with Tyrone GAA singing come out you black and tans, like why would that bother you?

cgcsb · 12-07-2019 11:45am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

We're not really into the whole pageantry parade thing ..its not really us.

Even on st pats we stuff our parades with drag queens and horses.

These 12th marches are dull, dour affairs with drunk oul lads walking, tatoo test subjects playing ****e music and vans with flegs on them. The colour and artistry and costumes you get at paddies day are class, no comparison.

12-07-2019 11:48am

https://twitter.com/stevenmdunne/status/1149617590576111616

citytillidie · 12-07-2019 11:52am

PSNI to investigate themselves over the possibility of the names of the contractors to remove the bonfire being leaked is he biggest joke ever should be another police force

https://twitter.com/bbcmarksimpson/status/1149599971605241858?s=21

Police have no power to remove trespassers

https://twitter.com/bbcmarksimpson/status/1149609777527324672?s=21

Let’s see what August brings

FrancieBrady · 12-07-2019 11:52am

Deleted User wrote: »

https://twitter.com/stevenmdunne/status/1149617590576111616

'Family days out' tourism will go through the roof!

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 12-07-2019 12:04pm

An intelligent alien visiting earth would find it so odd that woke Britannia is ok with this, or that it gets so little coverage.

Edgware · 12-07-2019 12:16pm

I was often in Belfast for concerts etc at the Waterfront and Odyssey. I have done all the tourist stuff as well with no problem.But come the marching season high in July the atmosphere along the Antrim Rd etc definetely changes.
I can understand their loyalty and allegiance to the Crown ( which wont be returned by Boris and co when it suits them). Having done the tour of Flanders and the Somme I can understand the commemmoration of the war dead from Ulster which included thousands of Catholics from areas such as West Belfast, Tyrone, Armagh etc. The loyalists dont recognise this fact at all

I just cant understand their need for triumphalism and insulting of the Irish state that buys their agricultural produce, supports their tourism industry etc.
Then of course we will have the British Open coming up. Will they take down their Soldier F banners then?

munsterlegend · 12-07-2019 12:17pm

citytillidie wrote: »

All until they can’t get what they want and march in areas they are not welcome then it turns far from a family day out.

If they OO are not part of the 11th why have they appealed before for tyres not to be burned at them?

They are all tied together.

Sure you had mervyn the head of that sectarian orange order speaking with Jamie Bryson( a notorious individual) about the bonfire at the leisure centre. The orange order use loyalists when it suits to promote their cause and have done for years. Look at billy wright on the garvaghy all those years ago.

cgcsb · 12-07-2019 12:17pm

It hasn't made the BBC headlines, you have to go into the NI section.

DrPhilG · 12-07-2019 12:17pm

It's an odd time of the year...

I'm born and bred in Donegal, 80s child so remember the tail end of the troubles, mildly Prod background, lived in Derry for a few years, work in Derry the last 20 and even married a "mucker".

I have no time for the terrorists or their sympathisers on either side. But I've always found that the loons on the Unionist side were worse than those on the Nationalist side. Just a more venomous bitter sort.

Take the Derry murals for example. The Bogside murals are for the most part a quite poignant look back at the oppression of the past (mostly, not all of course). Then on the other side of the river you have lovely images like this:

I've been to Belfast probably close to 100 times and driven through it quite often. I've always felt uncomfortable driving through the Unionist areas than the Nationalist ones, even when I had a northern reg car.

It's bizarre how it brings the bigot out of normal people. I have deleted a few Facebook friends over the years, you know the sort of typical Facebook friend, not that close in real life but you chat to them at work and end up adding them etc. But normal decent people going about their lives.

Then you see them on the 12th posting pictures of your flag ablaze on a bonfire without seeming to have a notion of how offensive that is.

ChikiChiki · 12-07-2019 12:21pm

Omackeral wrote: »

When the Confederate Flag isn't seen as the most controversial one, you've an issue.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

It's pure facism.

More often than not it's pure idiocy as well.

Despite flying an actual Swastika, they fly the Israeli flag too. Absolute knuckle-dragging troglodytes.

Can any of our resident unionists explain why a swastika would be flown alongside the union jack?

munsterlegend · 12-07-2019 12:22pm

DrPhilG wrote: »

It's an odd time of the year...

I'm born and bred in Donegal, 80s child so remember the tail end of the troubles, mildly Prod background, lived in Derry for a few years, work in Derry the last 20 and even married a "mucker".

I have no time for the terrorists or their sympathisers on either side. But I've always found that the loons on the Unionist side were worse than those on the Nationalist side. Just a more venomous bitter sort.

Take the Derry murals for example. The Bogside murals are for the most part a quite poignant look back at the oppression of the past (mostly, not all of course). Then on the other side of the river you have lovely images like this:

I've been to Belfast probably close to 100 times and driven through it quite often. I've always felt uncomfortable driving through the Unionist areas than the Nationalist ones, even when I had a northern reg car.

It's bizarre how it brings the bigot out of normal people. I have deleted a few Facebook friends over the years, you know the sort of typical Facebook friend, not that close in real life but you chat to them at work and end up adding them etc. But normal decent people going about their lives.

Then you see them on the 12th posting pictures of your flag ablaze on a bonfire without seeming to have a notion of how offensive that is.

Yeah I walked down both the shankill and the falls and have to say while both are not great the shankill far more menacing. Also someone would need to do a spellcheck at the loyalist memorials, littered with spelling mistakes!

ChikiChiki · 12-07-2019 12:30pm

timthumbni wrote: »

Just to clarify that the bonfires on the 11th (or 10th nights in one case) are not normally anything to do with the OO. Also the majority of people who will attend the 12th parades today will not have attended the bonfires the night before.

Burning flags is silly on either side though not going to ruin my day either. It has to be remembered that for many here the Irish tricolour is and was associated with the IRA. Sure you still have people on here who still blab on about the union flag as the butchers apron etc. They shouldn’t be burned but in the grand scheme of things and certainly compared to the murder of a journalist recently it’s no biggie.

Regarding the 12th parades themselves they are fun family day outs. Now for those who are anti unionist or don’t like the sight of union flags, NI red hands etc etc then it’s obviously not going to be your bag. Like I wouldn’t feel comfortable going to st paddy’s day in Belfast for example. But that’s life. I just don’t go. The disruption is very temporary so wouldn’t bother me.

The parades in the country especially are very gentle affairs. Hard to get offended by an accordion band of young girls. (Well, unless you are a Tyrone gaa player by the looks of it)

The keyboard republican circle jerk of anti unionism on here is a sight to read sometimes. Some highlights include suggesting sterilisation and others calling in the army. I’m sure the 12th July and the 11th November are their most fun times of the year. Probably buy a new keyboard for each date.

Anyway I can hear pipe bands in the distance. (The horror.... the horror)

Ban all parades. People across all sides up north need to grow up and stop acting like petulant children. Parades only serve to provoke tensions. They have no place in a progressive NI.

Ush1 · 12-07-2019 12:40pm

Is that Eddie Maiden??

Car99 · 12-07-2019 12:49pm

Do the BBC broadcast the 12th July parades every year. Was flicking through the channel is today and watched some of it . Not a very inclusive celebration by the looks of it and deemed important enough to be broadcast live. Odd.

timthumbni · 12-07-2019 1:11pm

Car99 wrote: »

Do the BBC broadcast the 12th July parades every year. Was flicking through the channel is today and watched some of it . Not a very inclusive celebration by the looks of it and deemed important enough to be broadcast live. Odd.

Yes, every single year. It’s a huge event in the unionist community so rightly so.

FrancieBrady · 12-07-2019 1:20pm

Car99 wrote: »

Do the BBC broadcast the 12th July parades every year. Was flicking through the channel is today and watched some of it . Not a very inclusive celebration by the looks of it and deemed important enough to be broadcast live. Odd.

Yes they do and the contentious, controversial aspect, and what it is all actually about, (religious triumphalism) is studiously ignored/not mentioned in that famous BBC way.

El Weirdo · 12-07-2019 1:23pm

Car99 wrote: »

Do the BBC broadcast the 12th July parades every year. Was flicking through the channel is today and watched some of it . Not a very inclusive celebration by the looks of it and deemed important enough to be broadcast live. Odd.

Just BBC NI. The rest of the regions probably don't even know it's going on (with the possible exception of BBC Scotland).

citytillidie · 12-07-2019 1:25pm

Car99 wrote: »

Do the BBC broadcast the 12th July parades every year. Was flicking through the channel is today and watched some of it . Not a very inclusive celebration by the looks of it and deemed important enough to be broadcast live. Odd.

Yep but don’t broadcast live on St Patrick’s day

careless sherpa · 12-07-2019 1:27pm

timthumbni wrote: »

Just to clarify that the bonfires on the 11th (or 10th nights in one case) are not normally anything to do with the OO. Also the majority of people who will attend the 12th parades today will not have attended the bonfires the night before.

Burning flags is silly on either side though not going to ruin my day either. It has to be remembered that for many here the Irish tricolour is and was associated with the IRA. Sure you still have people on here who still blab on about the union flag as the butchers apron etc. They shouldn’t be burned but in the grand scheme of things and certainly compared to the murder of a journalist recently it’s no biggie.

Regarding the 12th parades themselves they are fun family day outs. Now for those who are anti unionist or don’t like the sight of union flags, NI red hands etc etc then it’s obviously not going to be your bag. Like I wouldn’t feel comfortable going to st paddy’s day in Belfast for example. But that’s life. I just don’t go. The disruption is very temporary so wouldn’t bother me.

The parades in the country especially are very gentle affairs. Hard to get offended by an accordion band of young girls. (Well, unless you are a Tyrone gaa player by the looks of it)

The keyboard republican circle jerk of anti unionism on here is a sight to read sometimes. Some highlights include suggesting sterilisation and others calling in the army. I’m sure the 12th July and the 11th November are their most fun times of the year. Probably buy a new keyboard for each date.

Anyway I can hear pipe bands in the distance. (The horror.... the horror)

Just to clarify that there is no NI red hand. The red hand of Ulster is an Irish symbol used to denote the irish province of Ulster.

Cienciano · 12-07-2019 1:28pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If that is in anyway a common or general experience of Belfast it is remarkable that it has a tourist business at all. We will weekend in Belfast and go there many times in the year for many many years, even during the conflict/war, and I have never been asked 'What are you doing here fella?'.

You are remarkable to have experienced the 'cliched' Belfast on your first trip. Well done fella!

I was in Belfast a few years ago and literally the first guy we met in a pub gave us shít about "the troubles" and for being from the south. We were also with a girl from Limavady and he kept asking here where it was. He was from Belfast, so he obviously knew, but turns out he wanted to find out if she'd say "Derry" or "Londonderry" so he could start shít. That was in Laverys pub.

No problem with the rest of the night there, but trying to pretend that everyone there is a nice lad who doesn't care about where you're from/political views/sectarianism is ridiculous.

RobMc59 · 12-07-2019 1:30pm

El Weirdo wrote: »

Just BBC NI. The rest of the regions probably don't even know it's going on (with the possible exception of BBC Scotland).

There's an Orange lodge here in Liverpool,they're marching today in Southport.

El Weirdo · 12-07-2019 1:32pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

There's an Orange lodge here in Liverpool,they're marching today in Southport.

Are BBC North West covering it?

FrancieBrady · 12-07-2019 1:34pm

Cienciano wrote: »

I was in Belfast a few years ago and literally the first guy we met in a pub gave us shít about "the troubles" and for being from the south. We were also with a girl from Limavady and he kept asking here where it was. He was from Belfast, so he obviously knew, but turns out he wanted to find out if she'd say "Derry" or "Londonderry" so he could start shít. That was in Laverys pub.

No problem with the rest of the night there, but trying to pretend that everyone there is a nice lad who doesn't care about where you're from/political views/sectarianism is ridiculous.

I didnt try to 'pretend' anything. You can meet a ****head in any pub in any city in the world.

alchemist33 · 12-07-2019 1:34pm

citytillidie wrote: »

Yep but don’t broadcast live on St Patrick’s day

Tbf I've been to Paddy's Day parades in Belfast and Derry and they were tiny.

Cienciano · 12-07-2019 1:40pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I didnt try to 'pretend' anything. You can meet a ****head in any pub in any city in the world.

Of course, that's why it was ridiculous for you to cast doubt on the previous posters story.

RobMc59 · 12-07-2019 1:41pm

El Weirdo wrote: »

Are BBC North West covering it?

No,it won't be shown live -will be briefly mentioned on the news.

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 12-07-2019 1:47pm

timthumbni wrote: »

Yes, every single year. It’s a huge event in the unionist community so rightly so.

It’s a supremacist parade that would be banned if it targeted any other ethnic group.

FrancieBrady · 12-07-2019 2:01pm

Cienciano wrote: »

Of course, that's why it was ridiculous for you to cast doubt on the previous posters story.

All I said was that it was remarkable that somebody had come across so many of the 'cliched' aspects of Belfast on a first trip, in comparison to my experience going back over what must be 40 years or more.

It is remarkable is it not? For instance, how many tourists would get a 'dirty look' for saying they were going to the Shankill, when everyone in Belfast would know that the tours take you to both the Shankill and the Falls? Are Shinners in denial that the Shankill exists/has a history?

El Weirdo · 12-07-2019 2:12pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

All I said was that it was remarkable that somebody had come across so many of the 'cliched' aspects of Belfast on a first trip, in comparison to my experience going back over what must be 40 years or more.

It is remarkable is it not? For instance, how many tourists would get a 'dirty look' for saying they were going to the Shankill, when everyone in Belfast would know that the tours take you to both the Shankill and the Falls? Are Shinners in denial that the Shankill exists/has a history?

Exactly. We went to the Bobby Sands mural and SF shop on the Falls and actually met Bik McFarlane who asked us where we'd been on our trip. He certainly had no issues with us saying where we went or what we planned to do.

Same as when we spent a night out in the PD in Andersonstown - everyone we spoke to was giving us tips on what to do and where to see, including tours of loyalist areas.

ILoveYourVibes · 12-07-2019 2:15pm

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

It’s a supremacist parade that would be banned if it targeted any other ethnic group.

It would be probably banned as it is now if it were held in London.

Can you imagine if WE had a similar parade burning the union jack in Dublin?

FrancieBrady · 12-07-2019 2:25pm

El Weirdo wrote: »

Exactly. We went to the Bobby Sands mural and SF shop on the Falls and actually met Bik McFarlane who asked us where we'd been on our trip. He certainly had no issues with us saying where we went or what we planned to do.

Same as when we spent a night out in the PD in Andersonstown - everyone we spoke to was giving us tips on what to do and where to see, including tours of loyalist areas.

I am sure there will be a concerted effort to double down on the cliches as we approach a Border Poll.

'Themuns up there' and all that.

DrPhilG · 12-07-2019 2:54pm

I realise that there are a few Unionist viewpoints here so I have a genuine question.

What is with the Unionist obsession with Ulster? "Ulster says NO", "For God and Ulster" etc etc?

Is there some Unionist claim to Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan, or do they legitimately not realise that a third of Ulster is in the Republic?

cgcsb · 12-07-2019 3:03pm

DrPhilG wrote: »

I realise that there are a few Unionist viewpoints here so I have a genuine question.

What is with the unionist obsession with Ulster? "Ulster says NO", "For God and Ulster" etc etc?

Is there some Unionist claim to Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan, or do they legitimately not realise that a third of Ulster is in the Republic?

They've basically re-defined the province in their own minds into the area that they believe they can control. This mindset is notional really, and doesn't stand up to any logic, but is strangely given official status e.g. the 'Ulster Unionist Part', a strange concept given that if Donegal were in NI, unionism would have failed to secure a stormont majority many years ago and NI would be gone by now.

There are other official examples; the 'RUC' (now renamed) and BBC radio Ulster (I think that's still around despite the logic fail).

gooch2k9 · 12-07-2019 3:14pm

DrPhilG wrote: »

I realise that there are a few Unionist viewpoints here so I have a genuine question.

What is with the Unionist obsession with Ulster? "Ulster says NO", "For God and Ulster" etc etc?

Is there some Unionist claim to Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan, or do they legitimately not realise that a third of Ulster is in the Republic?

It's what they're taught, at least in Unionist areas. Northern Ireland is Ulster to them.

No, Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan were specifically excluded when NI was formed. Those counties skewed the demographics too much against Protestantism. I believe the entire province was to become NI but Carson ruled against those three.

Omackeral · 12-07-2019 3:17pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If you took the tour of the 'conflict' zones what exactly were you expecting? :rolleyes:

Some of the pubs in Belfast are among the best in the country. I could visit a few in Dublin and make the same 'The pubs were sh*tholes' generalisation too.

Good lord, your post is a classic. Too funny.

Found Belfast amazing when I visited last January. People were lovely and there was a sense that a lot of the bad times were in the past. I think if you go upmin and around July and go visiting the Shankill etc, obviously things are going to be more on edge.

The Titanic quarter itself is worth a trip up. The shopping was great and the food we had was brilliant too. Found service staff couldn't do enough for me and I'm a working class Dub.

Maybe I just had a good demeanour on me when meeting people or else I got lucky and Maki didn't.

Having said all that, I wouldn't go there in July.

FrancieBrady · 12-07-2019 3:30pm

gooch2k9 wrote: »

It's what they're taught, at least in Unionist areas. Northern Ireland is Ulster to them.

No, Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan were specifically excluded when NI was formed. Those counties skewed the demographics too much against Protestantism. I believe the entire province was to become NI but Carson ruled against those three.

Correct. The hideousness of partition. A gerrymandered/created ethnic majority. We know what that led to.
In fairness the British did make a feeble attempt to avoid what they knew was going to happen by imposing a voting system to prevent bigoted, suprematist governance, but Unionists just changed the system and started their ill fated oppression and discrimination. Even Ian Paisley in his later years admitted what they had done.

Poor_old_gill · 12-07-2019 3:42pm

Can someone explain to me why they fly Union Jack, Nazi flag and Israel flag?
The first I can understand but I dont get the other 2 and as a whole - the combo of flags seems ludicrous.

Gimme A Pound · 12-07-2019 3:44pm

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why they fly Union Jack, Nazi flag and Israel flag?
The first I can understand but I dont get the other 2 and as a whole - the combo of flags seems ludicrous.

One word explains it - idiocy.

FrancieBrady · 12-07-2019 3:45pm

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why they fly Union Jack, Nazi flag and Israel flag?
The first I can understand but I dont get the other 2 and as a whole - the combo of flags seems ludicrous.

I can explain 2.

The UJ= obvious
The Israeli flag = because themuns see an affinity with Palestinians.

The Nazi one = ****ed if I know.

The glorious 12th

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