Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

salmocab · 15-01-2020 10:36am

stephen_n wrote: »

If Frawley moves, where would he go though that would significantly improve his game time. Munster have JJ and Carberry with their own young 10 coming up behind them, that’s assuming Tyler goes at the end of the season. Ulster have Burns and Johnson. Connacht have Carthy and Fitzgerald. At best he’s going to be third choice in most cases instead of fourth at Leinster.

Frawley is someone that could certainly play elsewhere in the back line. He’s a very natural footballer I think he could play a lot of 12/15 and could be a great squad player at Leinster for a long time.

Buer · 15-01-2020 10:37am

thomond2006 wrote: »

If Leavy returns then someone like Penny needs to get out of there ASAP.

Yes and no. He has just turned 20. There's a lot to be said for sticking around and developing as a player for the next couple of years and then making a call on his future. Game time is great but it's not the whole picture for development especially at such an early stage.

Long term, I could see a move at this point actually hindering his career. If Ulster were interested, then it's a potential move that he should consider. They've some top forwards, a strong coaching team and are competing at the upper end of Europe. They have some very promising back row players though so I don't think they'd be knocking at the door. I don't think he should be looking to Munster as they have opensides and he'll be scrapping for game time there also. I can see Hodnett or JOS featuring at openside too. I'm not sure he fits JVG's idea of a backrow player either in terms of physicality.

Connacht are the side that I could see being very interested in him with Fainga'a on his way out. He'd certainly enjoy more game time there but I'm not sure if he'd reach his ceiling playing in a weaker team as opposed to working under Cullen and Lancaster whilst training alongside VDF et al.

stephen_n · 15-01-2020 10:37am

salmocab wrote: »

Frawley is someone that could certainly play elsewhere in the back line. He’s a very natural footballer I think he could play a lot of 12/15 and could be a great squad player at Leinster for a long time.

Frawley to me is very like Noel Reid, great natural talent could certainly do a job at 12 or 15. Not convinced he has the game management ability to make it as a top 10 though.

Buer · 15-01-2020 10:40am

stephen_n wrote: »

If Frawley moves, where would he go though that would significantly improve his game time. Munster have JJ and Carberry with their own young 10 coming up behind them, that’s assuming Tyler goes at the end of the season. Ulster have Burns and Johnson. Connacht have Carthy and Fitzgerald. At best he’s going to be third choice in most cases instead of fourth at Leinster.

I would imagine he'd back himself to usurp one of the Connacht outhalves at least. As said above, he can play across the back line though. I don't think there would be many weeks where he wouldn't be on the pitch.

As he's only turned 22 last month, I think he has some developing to do and I don't think him leapfrogging over JJH would be out of the question either.

prawnsambo · 15-01-2020 10:52am

Andy Friend is certainly sniffing around.

AdamD · 15-01-2020 11:09am

Could see Frawley leaving anyway. I'd be shocked if one of our 8s left. Would make more sense for Josh Murphy to move on. One of the younger 9s is surely due to go too. COB isn't getting much game time either but the other provinces have plenty of centres.

15-01-2020 11:13am

Do you think the same argument for the dublin football team could be made for leinster? Only having four professional teams will hamper the national team going forward.

salmocab · 15-01-2020 11:17am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Do you think the same argument for the dublin football team could be made for leinster? Only having four professional teams will hamper the national team going forward.

Don’t think so, it’s not like every week 60 top class Irish players start for the provinces. We don’t have the numbers to have a 5th team of quality.

whatawaster · 15-01-2020 11:24am

Am I the only one who would not be in the least bit surprised to see Frawley push on and be ahead of Ross Byrne in the next year? It could obviously go the other way too - any there are a lot of variables (best position, gametime, will he even stay at Leinster). But he has a very well rounded game, not too unlike a young Sexton had.

Clegg · 15-01-2020 11:29am

I reckon Deegan and Doris will be content staying for now. They're getting regular game time in the starting jersey and will back themselves to nail down that position for their own. Penney or Connors could be the ones that we might lose. Unless Connors can convert to 6 I suppose. Not much cover there.

sydthebeat · 15-01-2020 11:30am

whatawaster wrote: »

Am I the only one who would not be in the least bit surprised to see Frawley push on and be ahead of Ross Byrne in the next year? It could obviously go the other way too - any there are a lot of variables (best position, gametime, will he even stay at Leinster). But he has a very well rounded game, not too unlike a young Sexton had.

Byrne is currently a better distributor, which is a must for a 10.

Frawley needs more consistent game time, or i fear he will be over taken by Byrne Jnr (if not already)

15-01-2020 11:32am

AdamD wrote: »

Could see Frawley leaving anyway. I'd be shocked if one of our 8s left. Would make more sense for Josh Murphy to move on. One of the younger 9s is surely due to go too. COB isn't getting much game time either but the other provinces have plenty of centres.

The one factor with a lot of these younger players is that many of them are studying in Dublin. Isn't Murphy studying medicine?

whatawaster wrote: »

Am I the only one who would not be in the least bit surprised to see Frawley push on and be ahead of Ross Byrne in the next year? It could obviously go the other way too - any there are a lot of variables (best position, gametime, will he even stay at Leinster). But he has a very well rounded game, not too unlike a young Sexton had.

I think Byrne has improved this season just like he improved last season. He keeps getting better while everyone talks about the next guy up who is going to knock him out of the lineup.

Frawley needs to start at 10 in a few games where Leinster are under serious pressure and deliver a good game managing performance to see us through. Byrne has done this, need to see it from Frawley before any bets are on or off.

Buer · 15-01-2020 11:35am

Frawley needs a bit more composure. He looks like he has a nicely rounded game but his distribution can be quite erratic. In the second half of the Connacht game, he had 10 minutes where his passing was all over the place and he must have thrown 3 passes to the deck.

I don't think Ross Byrne is an exceptionally gifted passer of the ball but, for the most part, he's a very good decision maker and changes the direction of play very smoothly and efficiently.

salmocab · 15-01-2020 11:37am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The one factor with a lot of these younger players is that many of them are studying in Dublin. Isn't Murphy studying medicine?
.

This is actually a very good point, the younger lads more so may have reasons to be in Dublin.

Clegg · 15-01-2020 11:43am

The Times have Ruddock, VdF, Deegan, Doris and Connors all in the 6N squad. Who do Leinster select when these lads are away? Getting a bit thin on cover. Penney and Murphy would start. But there are no obvious number 8's.

errlloyd · 15-01-2020 11:45am

Clegg wrote: »

The Times have Ruddock, VdF, Deegan, Doris and Connors all in the 6N squad. Who do Leinster select when these lads are away? Getting a bit thin on cover. Penney and Murphy would start. But there are no obvious number 8's.

They won't all be gone, but if they are we can call up whoever is currently playing there for the Michael's JCT, or Fardy can do a job at 8.

whatawaster · 15-01-2020 11:48am

errlloyd wrote: »

They won't all be gone, but if they are we can call up whoever is currently playing there for the Michael's JCT, or Fardy can do a job at 8.

I'd say Connors and one of Deegan/Doris will be released for most Leinster matches

Buer · 15-01-2020 11:49am

Clegg wrote: »

The Times have Ruddock, VdF, Deegan, Doris and Connors all in the 6N squad. Who do Leinster select when these lads are away? Getting a bit thin on cover. Penney and Murphy would start. But there are no obvious number 8's.

Leinster don't have a match until Feb 15th. We'll have all wider squad members back with the Leinster camp for the week leading into that match as there's no Irish game so I'd expect lads like Conners, Deegan/Doris (if not selected by Ireland) to be playing for Leinster.

arsebiscuits1 · 15-01-2020 12:30pm

Clegg wrote: »

The Times have Ruddock, VdF, Deegan, Doris and Connors all in the 6N squad. Who do Leinster select when these lads are away? Getting a bit thin on cover. Penney and Murphy would start. But there are no obvious number 8's.

Guaranteed to get a few of those lads back. Much as I'd like to see it, I don't think all those fellas will start/ bench for Ireland.

The likes of Fardy, Murphy, Penny and even Baird would all adequately supplement Connors and Deegan/ Doris depending who we get back (and Farrell will definitely want the latters getting game time)

Dubinusa · 15-01-2020 4:42pm

The annual pilfering of Leinster treasure! It's good for the overall game on the island, but I hate seeing lads leaving.
I think Ferg and RK will be done and dusted this year. So incoming lads, TOB and Mullin will step right in. Tomane may not be offered a new contract, if so, COB will stay.
I can see Adam Byrne uproot and go elsewhere! He'd be a good fit at Connacht. Frawley would be mad to leave! Sexton is in the twilight of his career and Frawley would see lots of playing time over the next couple of seasons.
One of H.O.S or Patterson is likely to move. They won't get a look in at Leinster. I think Aungier will see some game time over the next few weeks. I'm not sure if Leinster rate him very high. Salanoa may go, but Leinster may really rate him and try to keep him. Unfortunately, I think one of the 8's will leave. When Conan returns it's going to limit the development of Doris and Deegan. Penny may go, especially knowing that Leavy will be back. It's a bottleneck in the back row, some one will want more minutes. I think Munster will make a pitch for Connors. He would waltz into the starting line up and get regular minutes. As far as I can see Munster don't give their own lads a chance. Clote is limited and not near test level. JOD is played out of position so a pitch for Connors could be coming.

Richie_Rich89 · 15-01-2020 6:08pm

Clegg wrote: »

The Times have Ruddock, VdF, Deegan, Doris and Connors all in the 6N squad. Who do Leinster select when these lads are away? Getting a bit thin on cover. Penney and Murphy would start. But there are no obvious number 8's.

There'd be Murphy and Dowling for blindside, and Penny for openside (dunno if Aspil is still with the squad). I think Martin Moloney was long-term injured. Don't know if he's back. He can play both flanker positions.

8 is where the obvious hole is if Deegan and Doris are away. If they're unavailable, I guess it'd be one of Tony Ryan, Ronan Foley or Ronan Watters. I read there's an 'A' game against Ulster coming up. Selection for that might give a few pointers who'd be selected at 8.

Squidgy Black · 15-01-2020 6:12pm

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

There'd be Murphy and Dowling for blindside, and Penny for openside (dunno if Aspil is still with the squad). I think Martin Moloney was long-term injured. Don't know if he's back. He can play both flanker positions.

8 is where the obvious hole is if Deegan and Doris are away. If they're unavailable, I guess it'd be one of Tony Ryan, Ronan Foley or Ronan Watters. I read there's an 'A' game against Ulster coming up. Selection for that might give a few pointers who'd be selected at 8.

Bit of a moot argument now Richie considering Ruddock didn't get called up.

Richie_Rich89 · 15-01-2020 6:15pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Bit of a moot argument now Richie considering Ruddock didn't get called up.

I suppose. They could stick Ruddock in at 8, with Murphy at blindside.

Kevski · 15-01-2020 6:25pm

Conan should be back in the next month or so if his rehab has been going well. He had surgery at the beginning of October and the timeframe given for his return at that time was 4 months.

Clegg · 15-01-2020 6:33pm

Kevski wrote: »

Conan should be back in the next month or so if his rehab has been going well. He had surgery at the beginning of October and the timeframe given for his return at that time was 4 months.

It was reported as a 6 month absence afaik. If that's the case then we may not see him play at all this season.

Clegg · 15-01-2020 6:42pm

Clegg wrote: »

The Times have Ruddock, VdF, Deegan, Doris and Connors all in the 6N squad. Who do Leinster select when these lads are away? Getting a bit thin on cover. Penney and Murphy would start. But there are no obvious number 8's.

Farrell's done us a favour in this regard. Ruddock absolutely deserves to be in the Ireland squad, but I won't complain that he'll be available for Leinster.

PhlegmyMoses · 15-01-2020 7:09pm

Wouldnt surprise me if Ruddock decided to look for a big payday elsewhere tbh.

AbusesToilets · 15-01-2020 7:40pm

Shocking treatment of Ruddock tbh. What more can he do? Outplayed everyone at 6 in the country, gets ****ed over repeatedly. I'd be off to France at this stage, make some money. Have to wonder if he regrets getting capped for Ireland. He'd walk into the Welsh team.

prawnsambo · 15-01-2020 8:38pm

Clegg wrote: »

It was reported as a 6 month absence afaik. If that's the case then we may not see him play at all this season.

Four to six months was the initial prognosis. And there's almost three of those gone now.

Faugheen · 15-01-2020 11:46pm

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Wouldnt surprise me if Ruddock decided to look for a big payday elsewhere tbh.

Exactly my first thought. I wouldn’t bother hanging around if I was him.

Exclamation Marc · 16-01-2020 12:17am

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Shocking treatment of Ruddock tbh. What more can he do? Outplayed everyone at 6 in the country, gets ****ed over repeatedly. I'd be off to France at this stage, make some money. Have to wonder if he regrets getting capped for Ireland. He'd walk into the Welsh team.

Ridiculous that he's not been picked. On form alone, he's miles ahead of Peter O'Mahony. You're right, you wouldn't blame him at 29 heading off for a serious payday.

AbusesToilets · 16-01-2020 12:32am

I guess Leo can give him some comfort. He had plenty of experiences getting passed over for inferior players.

Tim Robbins · 16-01-2020 12:38am

whatawaster wrote: »

Am I the only one who would not be in the least bit surprised to see Frawley push on and be ahead of Ross Byrne in the next year? It could obviously go the other way too - any there are a lot of variables (best position, gametime, will he even stay at Leinster). But he has a very well rounded game, not too unlike a young Sexton had.

Frawley is bigger and a better tackler. Byrne has a big more game management experience but Frawley will catch up in my view, my be a 12 as well.

But yeah I'd agree with you.

Tim Robbins · 16-01-2020 12:39am

Buer wrote: »

Makes complete sense. They've 4 outhalves all of whom are either good enough or potentially good enough to be capped. The same is true at openside.

At 8, there are only 3 real options but it's possibly the highest standard of all.

Something has to give with these guys although I'd say all of them are watching one another hoping one of the others depart.

I'd say Penny and Frawley are the most likely to leave at this point.

One of those 8's can play / cover 6.

Kevski · 16-01-2020 12:41am

Stuart Lancaster did a 50min interview for this weeks Rugby Union Weekly podcast. Worth a listen if you get a chance. Nice to hear him say that Isa is the greateat leader that he has worked with.

https://podcasts.apple.com/ie/podcast/rugby-union-weekly/id1197440162?i=1000462549758

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p080cl9k

Clegg · 16-01-2020 9:28am

Try had it all. BOD's pop pass putting Nacewa through the gap, Nacewa's beautiful 20 metre pass whilst running at full tilt, D'Arcy's finish and Sexton telling ROG to GTFO.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1217568436273983491?s=19

arsebiscuits1 · 16-01-2020 12:06pm

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Wouldnt surprise me if Ruddock decided to look for a big payday elsewhere tbh.

Ruddock would absolutely thrive in the premiership.

He was never the most athletically gifted player but his fundamentals are excellent. Few give more to latches, carries, tackles. And he is rarely dominated physically.

He's a real all rounder that would suit the premiership style. A team like Exeter would love a player of his calibre.

Would be a monumental loss to Leinster but could understand if he chose to move. He's 29 with a phenomenal injury profile.

AdamD · 16-01-2020 12:09pm

At what point did being an all rounder at 6 become a bad thing? Isn't that the usual thing you want in your 6, not a line out specialist? Worlds gone mad

Bus Boy · 16-01-2020 12:41pm

Kevski wrote: »

Stuart Lancaster did a 50min interview for this weeks Rugby Union Weekly podcast. Worth a listen if you get a chance. Nice to hear him say that Isa is the greateat leader that he has worked with.

https://podcasts.apple.com/ie/podcast/rugby-union-weekly/id1197440162?i=1000462549758

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p080cl9k

Great listen. What a humble intelligent man. Seems himself and Leo are a perfect match.

Squidgy Black · 16-01-2020 1:18pm

Is the team announcement for Treviso today?

Bazzo · 16-01-2020 1:20pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Is the team announcement for Treviso today?

Tomorrow, usually only internationals are done 48 hours before.

errlloyd · 16-01-2020 3:14pm

Kevski wrote: »

Stuart Lancaster did a 50min interview for this weeks Rugby Union Weekly podcast. Worth a listen if you get a chance. Nice to hear him say that Isa is the greateat leader that he has worked with.

https://podcasts.apple.com/ie/podcast/rugby-union-weekly/id1197440162?i=1000462549758

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p080cl9k

I adore Stuart's content, he produces a lot. I think him and I are connected on LinkedIn somehow and he shares slides, books, tips etc. All about leadership. He seems to like Leinster and his role and I think he's damn class.

The one thing I think is a little funny is that he makes it sound like his first defensive session was a bit of a revolution. But the year before under Kurt our defense conceded the least tries it has ever conceded. Kurt was a damn good coach too. I know there is more to defense than not coneding tries. Just find it funny.

sydthebeat · 16-01-2020 3:25pm

errlloyd wrote: »

The one thing I think is a little funny is that he makes it sound like his first defensive session was a bit of a revolution. But the year before under Kurt our defense conceded the least tries it has ever conceded. Kurt was a damn good coach too. I know there is more to defense than not coneding tries. Just find it funny.

i dont think he "revolutionized" the defense though.... just the way it was trained.

No down time, no immediate Q+As, all feedback afterwards, and recap a week later. He doesnt refer to any real system change, other than setting the system up (and thus the training session) to suit who they were playing

MarinersBlues · 16-01-2020 3:27pm

Clegg wrote: »

Try had it all. BOD's pop pass putting Nacewa through the gap, Nacewa's beautiful 20 metre pass whilst running at full tilt, D'Arcy's finish and Sexton telling ROG to GTFO.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1217568436273983491?s=19

BOD's forward pop pass ..... :pac:

16-01-2020 3:35pm

errlloyd wrote: »

I adore Stuart's content, he produces a lot. I think him and I are connected on LinkedIn somehow and he shares slides, books, tips etc. All about leadership. He seems to like Leinster and his role and I think he's damn class.

The one thing I think is a little funny is that he makes it sound like his first defensive session was a bit of a revolution. But the year before under Kurt our defense conceded the least tries it has ever conceded. Kurt was a damn good coach too. I know there is more to defense than not coneding tries. Just find it funny.

Am a big fan myself, follow a lot of his content. He's so sound I almost at times feel bad having enjoyed seeing England knocked out of the World Cup. Almost.

Dubinusa · 16-01-2020 7:32pm

Anyone have any ideas as to who will be playing at another province next year!
I think
ROL maybe Munster?
AB. Connacht?
Keenan ? Would like to see him get more time. He's the future. RK is a pale shadow now!
COB. MUNSTER?
Deegan. Connacht. Walks into the 8 shirt.
Penny. Munster? Passes Cloete very quickly.

Clegg · 16-01-2020 7:35pm

No chance Deegan moves. He fighting with Doris over the 8 jersey. Think COB will stay too. If Tomane leaves only Henshaw is ahead of him in the pecking order. He'll back himself to overtake him.

Penney isn't quite ready to start for any province imo. He's better off staying and developing his game. Connors is the player more likely to leave imo. He's older, more physically developed, but firmly behind VdF in the pecking order.

Rigor Mortis · 16-01-2020 7:38pm

Back row is so susceptible too injury players know they will get plenty of opportunity.

RugbyLover123 · 16-01-2020 9:54pm

I wouldn’t be going anywhere if I were a back rower. The position is incredibly attritional. When have we ever had a fully fit back row to choose from? When have Leavy and VDF both been fit to play in the last 3 years? I’d say there was a 2 week overlap at most.

There will be plenty of opportunities and game time for everyone as stands due to injuries/Ireland.

BonnieSituation · 16-01-2020 10:33pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Am a big fan myself, follow a lot of his content. He's so sound I almost at times feel bad having enjoyed seeing England knocked out of the World Cup. Almost.

I feel exactly the same with him and about 2015.

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

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