Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

errlloyd

errlloyd wrote: »

I know you're taking the piss but!

Honestly, I take nothing from it. Saracens got in trouble in the Gallagher Premiership for breaking GP rules. They don't apply to us or to the competition we played them in.

If they hadn’t been breaking the salary cap by the equivalent of several of their top players per year would they have won either the GPL or HCup ? Is it fair that cheaters prosper ? Honest questions lads.

If Leinster had cheated the last few years and won the Heineken cup or Pro14 off the back of it I would happily hand in the titles.

There is a salary cap so everyone has limits to play within they have found a way of attracting and paying players that possibly or probably wouldn’t be playing for them. If they hadn’t had those players, and £3.36m buys a lot of big names players, then it is conceivable that they wouldn’t have won the league and cup.

arsebiscuits1

errlloyd wrote: »

I know you're taking the piss but!

Honestly, I take nothing from it. Saracens got in trouble in the Gallagher Premiership for breaking GP rules. They don't apply to us or to the competition we played them in.

No. We won.

In all seriousness technically there is no salary cap for Europe. But technically they qualified for Europe by breaching it.

errlloyd

Deleted User wrote: »

There is a salary cap so everyone has limits to play within they have found a way of attracting and paying players that possibly or probably wouldn’t be playing for them. If they hadn’t had those players, and £3.36m buys a lot of big names players, then it is conceivable that they wouldn’t have won the league and cup.

We don't have a salary cap at Leinster?

There isn't much transparancy over Leinster finacials - but I'd imagine one of the following statements is true.

1. Leinster would be a loss making entity without IRFU money.
2. Leinster have in the past breached the Premiership Salary Cap.

Shefwedfan

Faugheen wrote: »

People need to remember that Richie’s real issue is that Tomane is a little bit brown.

That’s exactly the problem....if I remember he has similar issues with Teo a few season back

Richie_Rich89

sydthebeat wrote: »

how many kids do you want to play???
all of them???

there is no way in hell leinster can be accused of withholding game time to up and coming players this season so far, with the teams we've named.

Well, if you want to know, I'd very much like to see a backline of 15. Keenan, 14. DK, 13. JOB, 12. COB, 11. ROL, but it's not really about "kids". Fundamentally, I think two NIQs for the three-quarter line is too many given the quality of the homegrown backs in the squad. By way of comparison, we've only got one NIQ for the whole forward pack. To me it seems they're just having two NIQ backs for the sake of it at this stage because that's how it's been done for the last however long number of years. By way of example, I look at Jimmy O'Brien and I see a player who's good enough now to be first-choice 13 for Leinster. He's fast and very sound technically and skillswise, and he's been up against big beasts like Radradra and Tuisova on the 7s circuit playing in front of big crowds. People say Tomane brings experience, but Leinster already had an old head who's likely to be around all year with twice as many caps as Tomane and experience on the wing and at centre at international level. I'm not against NIQs if it's necessary, but this is overkill.

sydthebeat wrote: »

it is actual competitive rugby they are playing ... its not minis..... results matter.

What is this hyperbolic nonsense? I'm suggesting Leinster play a soon to be 24 year old in the centre who performed excellently last year. Do people really have such short memories that they forget how good O'Brien was during Tomane's injury lay off last season?

sydthebeat wrote: »

and the results so far this season have shown an excellent return for the teams we've named.
In five games so far this season we have played 16 different players in the backs.... nothing at all wrong with that level of sharing of game time.

I'm talking specifically about Conor O'Brien. I suppose your opinion will be informed a lot by how highly you rate him. I rate him very highly and I'd like to see him develop. If the status quo continues that's not going to happen. Simple as.

Podge_irl

No one not named Ringrose in the Leinster squad is good enough to be first choice 13.

Podge_irl

Deleted User wrote: »

If they hadn’t been breaking the salary cap by the equivalent of several of their top players per year would they have won either the GPL or HCup ? Is it fair that cheaters prosper ? Honest questions lads.

If Leinster had cheated the last few years and won the Heineken cup or Pro14 off the back of it I would happily hand in the titles.

There is a salary cap so everyone has limits to play within they have found a way of attracting and paying players that possibly or probably wouldn’t be playing for them. If they hadn’t had those players, and £3.36m buys a lot of big names players, then it is conceivable that they wouldn’t have won the league and cup.

Even their breaching the AP salary cap probably sees them below the T14 salary cap and god only knows what Leinster pay on salaries.

molloyjh

errlloyd wrote: »

I know you're taking the piss but!

Honestly, I take nothing from it. Saracens got in trouble in the Gallagher Premiership for breaking GP rules. They don't apply to us or to the competition we played them in.

Not directly. Would the same players have been available to Saracens had they played by their domestic leagues rules though?

Obviously I'm not talking about the title being rescinded in reality, but the 2 competitions are not wholly unrelated.

Richie_Rich89

I think the fundamental issue is that, in Lowe, Leinster got an NIQ with little to no versatility. That meant they had to get a second guy in to bring the versatility. So now they have the versatility, but two NIQs is one too many. Lowe's a gun player but purely in terms of what would have been the best squad fit, it would have been better to originally get in someone versatile, like maybe a Vince Aso.

To be fair, when they originally signed Tomane, COB had hardly any gametime under his belt and ROL had played a half of rugby at 12 in the Pro14 Final. If they extended Tomane now it would be a completely different kettle of fish with COB having an excellent season last year when he got his opportunity while Tomane was injured and with ROL having accumulated more gametime at 12 and done well. The cover is clearly there now.

Do Leinster need to sign a 10?

We should go after Farrell. His family are already here!

Squidgy Black

thomond2006 wrote: »

Bring Shota Horie in for a season or two. He's 33.

I called this during the RWC.

Mainly because of his dreadlocks. But I still stand by it.

errlloyd

errlloyd wrote: »

We don't have a salary cap at Leinster?

There isn't much transparancy over Leinster finacials - but I'd imagine one of the following statements is true.

1. Leinster would be a loss making entity without IRFU money.
2. Leinster have in the past breached the Premiership Salary Cap.

You might have to do a forum search. Someone previously went through the IRFU financials on here and for the cost of the provinces per year. Apparently we are well below the premiership salary cap. There’s also newspaper reports on the subject as well.

Leinster are owned by the IRFU so they are hand in hand. If you sold off Leinster now someone wealthy would snap them up. It’s very hard to make money off sports teams unless you have lots of tv money.

Leinster haven’t breached the premiership salary cap.

Stop trying to equate Leinster to Saracens. Saracens played the system to pay their players more. They got players they really shouldn’t have as a result and performed better than they should have if they were abiding by the system.

Will they have their League titles rescinded ? My belief, yes they should.

There is no salary cap in Ireland there is however a budget they work within. The budget is smaller than the cap however.

irishbucsfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There is no salary cap in Ireland there is however a budget they work within. The budget is smaller than the cap however.

No one knows that. The published accounts for “Professional game costs” and “Elite player development” combine to €56m in the last accounts. Any portion of that could be going on player salaries, we’ve no idea what it is because that amount is not published.

The salary cap for 4 premiership clubs would be 32.5m. So if just 60% of that amount is spent on player salaries, then we’d be in excess. There is no way to know whether or not that is the case.

Podge_irl

irishbucsfan wrote: »

No one knows that. The published accounts for “Professional game costs” and “Elite player development” combine to €56m in the last accounts. Any portion of that could be going on player salaries, we’ve no idea what it is because that amount is not published.

The salary cap for 4 premiership clubs would be 32.5m. So if just 60% of that amount is spent on player salaries, then we’d be in excess. There is no way to know whether or not that is the case.

And some provinces wage bill is undoubtedly higher than others.

enda1

I live in Lyon and was looking to go to the match on the 23rd. Any recommendations on where to sit in the stadium? I'd likely be going alone as I don;t know anyone who likes rugby unfortunately over here... So where would be a good place to meet up with the Leinster travelling fans? Any recommendations overall really...?

stephen_n

enda1 wrote: »

I live in Lyon and was looking to go to the match on the 23rd. Any recommendations on where to sit in the stadium? I'd likely be going alone as I don;t know anyone who likes rugby unfortunately over here... So where would be a good place to meet up with the Leinster travelling fans? Any recommendations overall really...?

OLSC will have an official bar for traveling fans, if you watch their twitter or Facebook accounts you’ll see it a few days before the game.

Clegg

It's in the bag, lads.

https://twitter.com/samrobertsrugby/status/1192060978118250496?s=19

Interested Observer

They managed to focus on both last season.

Shefwedfan

Clegg wrote: »

It's in the bag, lads.

https://twitter.com/samrobertsrugby/status/1192060978118250496?s=19

Wishful thinking.....


I would guess they missed this morning so they didn't get bombarded with questions.



If anything you would expect the HC is the only trophy they can win this season IF the fine and points deduction is upheld.



Of course could be wrong, but even with points deduction I can't see them losing enough games in Premiership to get relegated.

RobbieRuns

Sarries will not get relegated, even with the points deductions. The real key for me is will they change their ways..... ie adhere to the salary cap? That’s the only thing that will make them beatable. Is it just a case of pay the fine and take the points deduction, then back to normal? Their second string could keep them up and top players will help them win in Europe.

is_that_so

RobbieRuns wrote: »

Sarries will not get relegated, even with the points deductions. The real key for me is will they change their ways..... ie adhere to the salary cap? That’s the only thing that will make them beatable. Is it just a case of pay the fine and take the points deduction, then back to normal? Their second string could keep them up and top players will help them win in Europe.

They will still probably lose players even if they win the appeal as the door will be shut on such creative approaches to income. The RFU will also keep them on a short leash. They should become more beatable and less able to raid every club and academy in the country for players.

connachta

is_that_so wrote: »

They will still probably lose players even if they win the appeal as the door will be shut on such creative approaches to income. The RFU will also keep them on a short leash. They should become more beatable and less able to raid every club and academy in the country for players.

Main point for me is they won't be able to attract any new player, huge relief about Marmion

is_that_so

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Wishful thinking.....


I would guess they missed this morning so they didn't get bombarded with questions.



If anything you would expect the HC is the only trophy they can win this season IF the fine and points deduction is upheld.



Of course could be wrong, but even with points deduction I can't see them losing enough games in Premiership to get relegated.

There's a logic to focusing exclusively on the Premiership. As things stand they wouldn't be expected to defend both and a relegation risk is a far bigger deal than an early Champions Cup exit.

is_that_so

connachta wrote: »

Main point for me is they won't be able to attract any new player, huge relief about Marmion

Top level players I agree. It'll probably stymie them and they'll need to dip into the squad a lot more.

sydthebeat

RobbieRuns wrote: »

Sarries will not get relegated, even with the points deductions. The real key for me is will they change their ways..... ie adhere to the salary cap? That’s the only thing that will make them beatable. Is it just a case of pay the fine and take the points deduction, then back to normal? Their second string could keep them up and top players will help them win in Europe.

they have already claimed that they are operating within the salary cap this season.

however that doesnt let them off the hook if the arrangement with the "investment" into their players shell companies were one off payments to cover the length of the contract.....

Podge_irl

sydthebeat wrote: »

they have already claimed that they are operating within the salary cap this season.

however that doesnt let them off the hook if the arrangement with the "investment" into their players shell companies were one off payments to cover the length of the contract.....

Pretty sure they still think they were within the salary cap for the last 3 years too.

sydthebeat

Podge_irl wrote: »

Pretty sure they still think they were within the salary cap for the last 3 years too.

fair point......

Dubinusa

With T.O.B and Hawkshaw coming through the ranks, it might be best for C.O.B to move elsewhere. We really have a ton of talent coming up and if Tomane blocks C.O.B, he should move. Furthermore, I think that the salary would play a role in the team selection. Tomane is not going to warm the bench if he's on a large contract?
Leinster are loaded, I think the homegrown lads should get the nod. If Tomane does extend, someone will leave.
R.O.L is now an experienced player. He's been around for 4 years and is 25? He's played in some big matches and is a fine player. So, I think the experience argument is mute. With Henshaw back, Tomane and C.O.B will not see any action in Europe, unless there's a load of injuries.
Gavin Mullin and Liam Turner are also really fine prospects, Leinster are stacked.

Podge_irl

Dubinusa wrote: »

Furthermore, I think that the salary would play a role in the team selection. Tomane is not going to warm the bench if he's on a large contract?

I don't know why people constantly think this. It makes absolutely no sense.