Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

FrannoFan

Byrne has been super for leinster and when you see how little Sexton plays we wouldn't be finishing high up the league year on year without him.
But is he a Heineken cup winning 10? Probably not. Look at the roll of honour of previous winning 10s
farrell
sexton
farrell
farrell
giteu
Wilkinson
wilkinson
sexton
sexton

He isn't in that company and that is what leinster are looking for in the "franchise 10"

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Byrne does attack the line. I thought I was going mad but sure enough he did it a couple of times in that game. He’ll comfortably be first choice in any game where Sexton isn’t for the foreseeable future and he’s more than good enough to take us a long way in Europe

He aimed for a few gaps on Friday against Connacht. The first time he tried he failed to make any ground and ignored a 3 on 1 overlap outside him.

He will definitely be first choice and he is a quality option to have - I just don't see him being the difference between Leinster and an equally talented English or French team.

wise7 wrote: »

Where do you think we might be if we hadn't had Ross Byrne these past 3 seasons to put in the performances that he has? You show don't seem to no appreciation for what the coaches are doing in developing home grown talent as you prefer to have imports that are clearly not required. We are capable of building our own.

I think you are taking my criticism too much to heart. I rate Byrne, I'd pick him for Leinster over any other 10 in Ireland bar Sexton and maybe Carbery. That's pretty high praise.

I just think parts of his game will always be limited and the faster pace of International rugby and European knock out rugby might see him exposed.

I also am one of the more die hard purists when it comes to home grown talent. But realistically Leinster are more than puling their weight here, and right now at outhalf (Sexton aside) we have a solid 10 and a couple of untested prospects. If Sexton declines or doesn't stay beyond this season I think either those prospects will need to show something they haven't yet or we may need to make a signing.

aloooof

kingofthekong wrote: »

Lol why is this conversation even happening...

Theyve got at outhalf : Healy, Bleyendall, Hanrahan

You've listed Hanrahan, but he's injured, which is the only reason this has been mentioned (as a potential short term solution). From Cummiskey:

...Nucifora might prefer to offer assistance from inside the Irish system with Harry Byrne a potential short term solution. Byrne, younger brother of Ross, has already featured four times for Leinster this season but the expected return of Johnny Sexton could see him drop to fourth choice behind Ciarán Frawley.

Personally, I'd prefer Healy to get the game time.

kingofthekong

Ah I see....looks like they are getting bit in the ass for not developing Bill Johnston,

Will they make the same mistake with Healy?....probably

irishbucsfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He aimed for a few gaps on Friday against Connacht. The first time he tried he failed to make any ground and ignored a 3 on 1 overlap outside him.

He will definitely be first choice and he is a quality option to have - I just don't see him being the difference between Leinster and an equally talented English or French team.

He made ground with multiple carries. That’s all he needs to do. He doesn’t need to be Beauden Barrett.

If you’re waiting around for a 10 who can win a European final on their own (I.e. one of the best in the world) then you might be waiting a very very long time. We’ve only ever had one player of that quality and we may never have another. Until then I’m happy enough to have a very good option and the rest of the squad is more than enough to beat anyone on their day.

awec

I reckon if Leinster went to the IRFU asking to sign a NIQ 10 any time soon they'd be laughed out of the room.

The notion that Leinster need a HEC winning 10 in the position at all times is... well it's notions.

You'll have to make do, just like everyone else, though in your case you still have a quality player there.

Henry Ford III

Sexton looks shot to me. Easily injured and has taken too many hits to the head in particular.

I don't expect him to be playing the game much longer.

Ross Byrne is decent but not the longer term replacement I think.

VANG1

Johnny was a late developer also, Ross is improving and working on his game all the time. His place kicking is top notch and he is going to be a top player.

Exclamation Marc

I'm very interested to see how Leinster will start addressing the long term full back spot.

With Kearney in his last year (on a cc anyway) and somewhat likely to move on, will they press on with Larmour as full back or keep flitting him between there and the wing until they sign a full back or move someone else there. I can't see sustainable logic in Kearney remaining at 15 all season and hoping Larmour slots in next year.

Perhaps Kellihers signing was long term depth at 14 to cover Larmours move back

whatawaster

Deleted User wrote: »

The more I think about it the more I think we need to make a big name signing for next season at outhalf.

While that would be great for Leinster, Ireland desperately need their top province to have an Irish 10. Therefore, since IRFU have the ability to control these things, Leinster should not be allowed sign a NIQ 10. In specialist positions, it's very important to have 4 Irish starting players, one at each province.

Squidgy Black

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

I'm very interested to see how Leinster will start addressing the long term full back spot.

With Kearney in his last year (on a cc anyway) and somewhat likely to move on, will they press on with Larmour as full back or keep flitting him between there and the wing until they sign a full back or move someone else there. I can't see sustainable logic in Kearney remaining at 15 all season and hoping Larmour slots in next year.

Perhaps Kellihers signing was long term depth at 14 to cover Larmours move back

Hugo Keenan will probably continue to get some game time in the Pro14 (hopefully) with the view of having him as another future fullback option, he's gone well so far apart from a few small mistakes but that's to be expected.

sydthebeat

theres more chance of carbery being moved back to leinster if R Byrne doesnt kick on, than there is leinster being allowed sign a decent NIQ 10

errlloyd

I think one of Frawley, Byrne or other Byrne will end up being the business.

Faugheen

Frawley’s a 12. He’d be a complete waste at 10.

Serbian

VANG1 wrote: »

Johnny was a late developer also, Ross is improving and working on his game all the time. His place kicking is top notch and he is going to be a top player.

Objectively, Ross Byrne's place kicking is not top notch. It's acceptable. He kicked a pressure kick against Ulster last season which in fairness was good, but I'd consider his place kicking another area of weakness for him.

His success rate of 73% last season is the worst of all players who regularly take kicks at Irish provinces. For comparison Carbery kicked at 88% last season, Sexton at 85%, Bill Johnston at 85%, Carty at 80%, JJ Hanrahan 79%, and Cooney at 78%.

jacothelad

Serbian wrote: »

Objectively, Ross Byrne's place kicking is not top notch. It's acceptable. He kicked a pressure kick against Ulster last season which in fairness was good, but I'd consider his place kicking another area of weakness for him.

His success rate of 73% last season is the worst of all players who regularly take kicks at Irish provinces. For comparison Carbery kicked at 88% last season, Sexton at 85%, Bill Johnston at 85%, Carty at 80%, JJ Hanrahan 79%, and Cooney at 78%.

Kick stats on their own are not really very informative. Byrne may have taken more kicks from wide out or in bad weather and how many games did Carbery and Johnston play in to achieve their figures.

thomond2006

jacothelad wrote: »

Kick stats on their own are not really very informative. Byrne may have taken more kicks from wide out or in bad weather and how many games did Carbery and Johnston play in to achieve their figures.

I wish there was a stat that applied weighting for distance and angle etc.

aloooof

jacothelad wrote: »

Kick stats on their own are not really very informative. Byrne may have taken more kicks from wide out or in bad weather and how many games did Carbery and Johnston play in to achieve their figures.

Carbery played 990 minutes vs Ross Byrne's 1131. It's still an imperfect comparison as position on the field etc. isn't taken into account, but I'm surprised that RB's is so comparatively low.

VANG1

He was 100% on Friday. A young improving player. We are great at picking holes in players, they are real people trying their best.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If you’re waiting around for a 10 who can win a European final

whatawaster wrote: »

While that would be great for Leinster, Ireland desperately need their top province to have an Irish 10. Therefore, since IRFU have the ability to control these things, Leinster should not be allowed sign a NIQ 10. In specialist positions, it's very important to have 4 Irish starting players, one at each province.

awec wrote: »

I reckon if Leinster went to the IRFU asking to sign a NIQ 10 any time soon they'd be laughed out of the room.

Leinster already developed this player and by all accounts the IRFU were integral in ensuring they are now starting for Munster.

If Leinster don't strike lightning again I think a NIQ should be made available. I don't think this is unreasonable, Carbery was a loss not of Leinster's making.

Dubinusa

I think Larmour will get the run at 15. Putting him on the wing to accommodate Kearney may happen this round of the Euros.
Larmour most likely will be our 15, with Keenan as back up. In the academy there's Sylvester and Kelly, who may be good players in the future.
I watched the Dragons match back and I thought that J.O.B was great. Serious pace on him and he really is a good passer too. Was very impressed with him and Penny.
Harry Byrne was good, but missed several kicks at goal.
We are stacked.

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

Leinster already developed this player and by all accounts the IRFU were integral in ensuring they are now starting for Munster.

If Leinster don't strike lightning again I think a NIQ should be made available. I don't think this is unreasonable, Carbery was a loss not of Leinster's making.

I said it before but some fans had huge question marks over Sexton and Isa was the future at 10. Ross Byrne is 24 and at that age Sexton only really started to kick on after Contepomi left the club.

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I said it before but some fans had huge question marks over Sexton and Isa was the future at 10. Ross Byrne is 24 and at that age Sexton only really started to kick on after Contepomi left the club.

Yes, and maybe in a few years time Ross Byrne will be a world player of the year nominee.

But he may also just have a lower ceiling than Sexton. And if that is the case, I'd rather we went marquee than do another Gopperth and have two average enough 10s duking it out for the starting jersey.

Squidgy Black

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Leinster already developed this player and by all accounts the IRFU were integral in ensuring they are now starting for Munster.

If Leinster don't strike lightning again I think a NIQ should be made available. I don't think this is unreasonable, Carbery was a loss not of Leinster's making.

It was in a way though Venjur. Playing him at 15 in his last season with Byrne at 10 was one of the main motivating factors in moving him to Munster, he had one start at 10 all season and nine at 15, Byrne on the other hand had 19 starts at 10. Leinster made it pretty clear that if there was an injury to Rob that Joey was going to be the alternate, and the IRFU were desperate for him to get more starts at 10.

If Joey had been picked at 10 for some of those 19 starts instead of Ross, at the expense of Leinster having to play a less competent fullback, who knows where we'd be.

Shefwedfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes, and maybe in a few years time Ross Byrne will be a world player of the year nominee.

But he may also just have a lower ceiling than Sexton. And if that is the case, I'd rather we went marquee than do another Gopperth and have two average enough 10s duking it out for the starting jersey.

You not even giving H Byrne a chance?

Those two average 10 nearly got to a HC final with a fairly sh*t game plan....

Shefwedfan

It's only worth noting, even if Carbery was still at Leinster he would not be playing 10. He was seen as a 15 with maybe the option to play at 10. Not the other way around. Carbery would be fighting with Larmour for the 15 jersey

Podge_irl

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I said it before but some fans had huge question marks over Sexton and Isa was the future at 10. Ross Byrne is 24 and at that age Sexton only really started to kick on after Contepomi left the club.

Perhaps but he also started a HEC final at 23 and was trusted enough to be the starting flyhalf the following season at 24 regardless of contepomi’s injury accelerating the plan by a few matches.

He was a slow burner but he was also further along at this stage of his career then Byrne. And was, to be blunt, just a better player.

Byrne is grand and all but he isn’t going to become a stellar player at this stage.

P.Walnuts

Podge_irl wrote: »

Byrne is grand and all but he isn’t going to become a stellar player at this stage.

Pretty much spot on. Can't coach pace ect ect

irishbucsfan

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Pretty much spot on. Can't coach pace ect ect

Sexton didn't struggle whatsoever without pace. It's absolutely not a requirement for a 10.

P.Walnuts

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Sexton didn't struggle whatsoever without pace. It's absolutely not a requirement for a 10.

Absolutely true.

But Sexton was/is quicker than Byrne.....it helps.