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Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

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    #2282
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,948 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    duploelabs wrote: »
    The flag is banned due to " a Court of Arbitration for Sport ruling from December which barred Russia’s name, flag, anthem and other national symbols in a package of sanctions over what it deemed Russia’s failure to turn over accurate data from the Moscow drug-testing laboratory. "

    not because any sensitivities, actual global sport law.

    It's not banned though. They got the livery in before the ban took effect so it turns out it didn't break any rules.

    It's just national a flag liver the people got really cross about because they thought it broke a rule but it actually didn't. It's not a bad livery, white with blue and red are pretty classic racing colours. Even so, If I were WADA then I'd be cross that they got around the rules, but I'm not WADA so I really don't see why anyone else got upset. I think it's an anti-Russian bias. I'm probably biased against Russia myself - hard not to be given the media coverage of Russia.


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    #2283
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,134 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    It's not banned though. They got the livery in before the ban took effect so it turns out it didn't break any rules.

    It's just national a flag liver the people got really cross about because they thought it broke a rule but it actually didn't. It's not a bad livery, white with blue and red are pretty classic racing colours. Even so, If I were WADA then I'd be cross that they got around the rules, but I'm not WADA so I really don't see why anyone else got upset. I think it's an anti-Russian bias. I'm probably biased against Russia myself - hard not to be given the media coverage of Russia.

    There's no media bias when it comes to the Russian sports agency, they're found to be corrupt as a total organisation by a court of law, not a court of opinion, hence the ban


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    #2284
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,948 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    duploelabs wrote: »
    There's no media bias when it comes to the Russian sports agency, they're found to be corrupt as a total organisation by a court of law, not a court of opinion, hence the ban

    No argument on the Russian state sponsored doping. Pretty heavy media bias in general though.

    Are we at least agree that the ban doesn't apply to the Haas livery and it doesn't break the rules?


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    #2285
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,134 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    No argument on the Russian state sponsored doping. Pretty heavy media bias in general though.

    Are we at least agree that the ban doesn't apply to the Haas livery and it doesn't break the rules?

    It's there because it got in before the ban, I doubt they'd be able to repeat it next season


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    #2286
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,948 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    duploelabs wrote: »
    It's there because it got in before the ban, I doubt they'd be able to repeat it next season

    Oh yeah I'd say you're right that they won't be able to carry it over until next year (assuming the have to register these things annually). But they didn't actually break the rules and still people who aren't affected by the rules are cross about them getting in before the rule took effect. Can you see how that's pretty unusual?

    It's only a small issue anyway. He's pretty irrelevant in the sport this year. Just making up the numbers in the Haas. Interesting to see how Haas goes next year given that they've switched to developing the new car before anyone else. Solid mid table wouldn't be an unreasonable expectation for them - and then Mazepin's driving style would become much more relevant. He'll have a full year of experience under his belt by then though, and like Stroll, will likely be improved for the practice.


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    #2287
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,134 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Oh yeah I'd say you're right that they won't be able to carry it over until next year (assuming the have to register these things annually). But they didn't actually break the rules and still people who aren't affected by the rules are cross about them getting in before the rule took effect. Can you see how that's pretty unusual?

    It's only a small issue anyway. He's pretty irrelevant in the sport this year. Just making up the numbers in the Haas. Interesting to see how Haas goes next year given that they've switched to developing the new car before anyone else. Solid mid table wouldn't be an unreasonable expectation for them - and then Mazepin's driving style would become much more relevant. He'll have a full year of experience under his belt by then though, and like Stroll, will likely be improved for the practice.

    I'd like to see a historical similarity where a rookie, with as constantly bad margin lap times as Mazepin does, suddenly got good as you attest he will, in a subsequent season


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    #2288
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,948 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    duploelabs wrote: »
    I'd like to see a historical similarity where a rookie, with as constantly bad margin lap times as Mazepin does, suddenly got good as you attest he will, in a subsequent season

    I don't attest he will become good. I said it's likely he will improve with the benefit of a year's practice. Hardly a bold claim.


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    #2289
    This is it
    Registered Users Posts: 5,185 ✭✭✭This is it


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Oh yeah I'd say you're right that they won't be able to carry it over until next year (assuming the have to register these things annually). But they didn't actually break the rules and still people who aren't affected by the rules are cross about them getting in before the rule took effect. Can you see how that's pretty unusual?

    It's only a small issue anyway. He's pretty irrelevant in the sport this year. Just making up the numbers in the Haas. Interesting to see how Haas goes next year given that they've switched to developing the new car before anyone else. Solid mid table wouldn't be an unreasonable expectation for them - and then Mazepin's driving style would become much more relevant. He'll have a full year of experience under his belt by then though, and like Stroll, will likely be improved for the practice.

    He's someone that's easy to dislike, much like Hamilton.

    Between the flag/livery, points on his f2 license, the money and grabbing women's bits he might as well be Ivan Drago, all we need is an American to come to the rescue and kick his ass.

    Hardly unusual that some people would dislike him, is it?


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    #2290
    Jordan 199
    Registered Users Posts: 11,639 ✭✭✭✭Jordan 199


    MadYaker wrote: »
    What are peoples opinions on the French GP? Many seem to think it's the most boring of the year, is it a guaranteed stinker or worth a watch?

    It will probably be a stinker. But they could always liven it up by turning on the sprinklers.


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    #2291
    muckwarrior
    Registered Users Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭muckwarrior


    duploelabs wrote: »
    The difference is that Senna could actually drive an F1 car

    That's not the only difference though. Even if Senna acted like that (frankly I don't know whether he did or not), the world is a different place than it was a few decades ago. Some things that were acceptable then are unacceptable now, and rightly so.


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    #2292
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,134 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    This is it wrote: »
    He's someone that's easy to dislike, much like Hamilton.

    Between the flag/livery, points on his f2 license, the money and grabbing women's bits he might as well be Ivan Drago, all we need is an American to come to the rescue and kick his ass.

    Hardly unusual that some people would dislike him, is it?
    It's quite the strawman argument to compare him to Hamilton. On his behaviour, I don't want my daughters to grow up around boys who idolise drivers like mazepin and think that behaviour is cool, and thus my daughters, or any women, be subject to it. But that point is not one for this thread.
    On a driver front, he's dangerous, and has shown no sign of improvement in pace. You could say 'oh he's learning tha car', well so are the other rookies and they're not 2% down on everyone else. And useless there's a massive turnaround in skill level from what he's displayed so far, I don't see that skill gap closing any time soon


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    #2293
    eviltimeban
    Registered Users Posts: 5,087 ✭✭✭eviltimeban


    If Mazepin's father wasn't involved, we wouldn't be having these conversations. He'd have already been replaced.


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    #2294
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,367 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    If mazespin is still learning the car, why is he consistently behind MSC who would be doing the same?


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    #2295
    Joeface
    Registered Users Posts: 2,869 ✭✭✭Joeface


    Cause the Gap between them at the start was large . It has come down considerably.

    He was head of MSC in all the sessions of Monaco , and a few in Baku as well. As he is on the Grid the he has to improve cause he will be there for some time Given the money behind him.


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    #2296
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,948 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    ELM327 wrote: »
    If mazespin is still learning the car, why is he consistently behind MSC who would be doing the same?

    Probably similar reasons to why Danny Ric is struggling to learn the Mclaren.

    Adaptability is a strength in a driver. Failing to adapt to a car is a fair criticism of a driver.

    At this early stage in the season we can safely say Drivers like Danny Ric and Mazepin have failed to get up to speed with their cars QUICKLY. Sainz, on the other hand, appears to have gotten up to speed relatively quickly which is to his credit.
    Latifi's race pace is much closer to Russell than last year (quali pace still strongly in Russell's favour. Ocon's second half of last season was much stronger than his first half. He was very close to Ric in the second half.

    Drivers take time to get up to speed in cars. Doing it quickly is better than doing it slowly, but not having done it after 6 races doesn't mean they will never do it.

    I've no idea whether Ric and Mazepin will ever get up to speed (you'd imagine Ric will though)


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    #2297
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,367 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Joeface wrote: »
    Cause the Gap between them at the start was large . It has come down considerably.

    He was head of MSC in all the sessions of Monaco , and a few in Baku as well. As he is on the Grid the he has to improve cause he will be there for some time Given the money behind him.


    practice sessions are not relevant though. Only race results.
    Look at george russel. Great in qualifying but does nothing with it in the race - much as I like GR - and it's useless for williams as they dont get points for making Q2/Q3


    In the race it's common for mick to be half a minute ahead.


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    #2298
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,367 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Probably similar reasons to why Danny Ric is struggling to learn the Mclaren.

    Adaptability is a strength in a driver. Failing to adapt to a car is a fair criticism of a driver.

    At this early stage in the season we can safely say Drivers like Danny Ric and Mazepin have failed to get up to speed with their cars QUICKLY. Sainz, on the other hand, appears to have gotten up to speed relatively quickly which is to his credit.
    Latifi's race pace is much closer to Russell than last year (quali pace still strongly in Russell's favour. Ocon's second half of last season was much stronger than his first half. He was very close to Ric in the second half.

    Drivers take time to get up to speed in cars. Doing it quickly is better than doing it slowly, but not having done it after 6 races doesn't mean they will never do it.

    I've no idea whether Ric and Mazepin will ever get up to speed (you'd imagine Ric will though)
    Mick has shown that his first year in a new formula is much worse than his second - even see F2, he was much better last year than the year before. I dont think he would claim to be particlulary good at adapting quickly.


    I'd expect, all things being equal in 2022, that mick will be further ahead of mazespin. (Or maze$pin if you'd prefer).


    The only money driver that's been worthy of a seat this season has been stroll. The others like latifi, mazespin etc should not be on the grid. But it's always been the same. If you watched in the 90s there were plenty of Dinizs for every MSC!


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    #2299
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,948 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Joeface wrote: »
    Cause the Gap between them at the start was large . It has come down considerably.

    He was head of MSC in all the sessions of Monaco , and a few in Baku as well. As he is on the Grid the he has to improve cause he will be there for some time Given the money behind him.

    That's true. His practice pace has definitely improved but his quali and race pace is still well behind Schumacher. Schumacher is much more consistent and faster than Mazepin.

    Mazepin held with Schumacher for the first few laps in Baku. Then Schumacher pitted and Mazepin pitted a couple of laps later, with a 7 second gap on lap 12 when they both emerged. Then Schumacher opened up a 21s by lap 24 and then he must have spun as the gap goes to 45s.

    He shows glimpses of being on Schumacher's pace, then blows it.


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    #2300
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,948 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Mick has shown that his first year in a new formula is much worse than his second - even see F2, he was much better last year than the year before. I dont think he would claim to be particlulary good at adapting quickly.


    I'd expect, all things being equal in 2022, that mick will be further ahead of mazespin. (Or maze$pin if you'd prefer).


    The only money driver that's been worthy of a seat this season has been stroll. The others like latifi, mazespin etc should not be on the grid. But it's always been the same. If you watched in the 90s there were plenty of Dinizs for every MSC!
    Yeah I'd agree with that.

    It's interesting to see who to class as a pay driver. Perez is a pay driver. Alonso and Webber both got their starts at Minardi and they only took pay drivers. Alonso has always had big sponsors (I think Telefonica in his Minardi days and Santander more recently).

    I'm sure Perez money helped him get the Red Bull drive. They were very reluctant to look outside their Red Bull drivers, but mad an exception in Perez case. His millions in a pandemic couldn't have hurt his chances of getting the RB seat.


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    #2301
    Zookey123
    Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭Zookey123


    In relation to the french GP it looks like most of the track has been resurfaced and most of the corners have been re-profiled. This was apparently done for drainage as well as more over takes. After the last few races the track has developed a reputation of a snooze fest. Hopefully these changes can bring some good racing this weekend.


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    #2302
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,128 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    https://twitter.com/F1Xtra_com/status/1404772470989656064?s=19


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    #2303
    Charlie-Bravo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,619 ✭✭✭Charlie-Bravo


    Ooh interesting. Maybe there's been a bit of a bite back by Bottas from the Baku Qualy shenanigans. Then poor performance in general from him in a not so perfect Merc!!

    -. . ...- . .-. / --. --- -. -. .- / --. .. ...- . / -.-- --- ..- / ..- .--.



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    #2304
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,948 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    I wouldn't believe they're genuinely considering changing drivers mid season, based on one source. If Bottas was going to switch to William's then I wonder if they would start giving a couple of Russell FP1s towards the end of the season.


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    #2305
    MadYaker
    Registered Users Posts: 12,142 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Could be BS?


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    #2306
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,367 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    This is silly season time really as both merc drivers are out of contract and bottas is underperforming.


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    #2307
    eviltimeban
    Registered Users Posts: 5,087 ✭✭✭eviltimeban


    I think Bottas should be allowed to stay til the end of the year. It's a bit more dignified. And he's always been loyal to the team. All those years coming second to Hamilton must've been hard to take.

    Russell in the Merc in 2022 will be good. Unless of course Merc screw up the new regs and they go back to being midfielders! :)


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    #2308
    klose
    Registered Users Posts: 11,485 ✭✭✭✭klose


    With new regs next season and some uncertainty about who will be where I'm sure Mercedes want Loois to break Schumachers title record as its a great look for them, the way bottas is driving won't help that (undercuts/over cuts etc) and that's before you consider they will probably lose the constructors if he dosnt pick it up soon. No street circuits for a while (if at all?) so he has the chance to do it, if he keeps languishing in midfield I think they may pull the trigger on him.


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    #2309
    afatbollix
    Registered Users Posts: 4,037 ✭✭✭afatbollix


    eviltimeban wrote: »
    I think Bottas should be allowed to stay til the end of the year. It's a bit more dignified. And he's always been loyal to the team. All those years coming second to Hamilton must've been hard to take.

    Russell in the Merc in 2022 will be good. Unless of course Merc screw up the new regs and they go back to being midfielders! :)

    Ya that's what will happen but it's great to have some off-track bull crap talk to keep us busy.

    GR will at all times say no he hasn't spoken to Toto and will look very surprised at anyone who brings it up.

    Botta's head will be melting with the pressure. For sure we're going to have a F YOU moment again this year.....


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    #2310
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,783 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    Seems very hypocritical of Toto if this is the case. It was only a few weeks ago they were throwing sh** at red bull for changing drivers. That being said, a quick swap could mean that after the last race of the season he is immediately a Merc driver.


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    #2311
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,948 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Matt Carter on Missed Apex Podcast is saying the Ocon is explicitly a Mercedes driver and they own his contract. Renault/Alpine wanted to sign him but Mercedes wouldn't let them and they only let them have him as long as they own his contract. If Mercedes wanted him next year or the year after, Alpine couldn't stop them taking him.


This discussion has been closed.
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