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Suicide Squad Sequel

124

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,300 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    Poor Sebastian just wanted to be friends with people.

    That liquid could not have been good for Harley's eyes.

    Really enjoyed it overall. For the first credits scene

    When we saw Weasel, I was half expecting him to find TDK still alive



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,971 ✭✭✭cdgalwegian


    Although a bit too long, this was much better than the first outing - Gunn's tongue-in-cheekedness making it very enjoyable. It did feel though that the choice of anti-heros by Waller for the mission was less to do with her nous in matching their abilities for the mission, than how their abilities would slot in with the storyboard. Still though, it was great fun.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,678 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    its officially a flop by the looks of things. Might there be the start of super hero fatigue?

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,254 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Possibly, but also even though it's James Gunn, people will still have the previous film in their minds, and that was awful. Combined with streaming figures, and streaming increases availability of high-quality piracy downloads. It's too hard to judge. Plus covid cases rising a lot too, obviously.

    There'll definitely be a dip in upcoming superhero film numbers though. Even considering the next few Marvel films are largely unknown characters (Shang-Chi, The Eternals), and Spider-Man being at Xmas which might affect numbers too.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,732 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Don't think there's much to be read into the box office of any given film at the moment beyond 'people still aren't going back in large numbers' and 'Disney and Warner are cannibalising their own market by releasing these films online'.

    I'd love nothing more than for audiences to get bored by superhero films, as that'd be a much-needed correction to years of extreme oversaturation. But really things are too chaotic at the moment to draw that sort of conclusion.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    As do-overs go, the two films will act as great examples of the difference between accidental and deliberate stupidity. This was a fun and breezy "stupid" film, and something only James Gunn's macabre mind could have conjured; it really leant into the chaotic insanity of the whole pop-anarchic, fatalist concept of the comics. It happily embraced that kernel of ludicrousness all superhero stories have, but cinematic adaptations rarely touch - and frequently mishandle. The cartoon violence will absolutely alienate some, but this was gore used as a punchline, not for its own sake.

    But like pop-anarchy, there was a certain shallowness to it all, not least the realisation after the credits rolled that it cheated. It set itself with the bold promise that nobody was safe - highlighted by that fantastic, gutsy opening sequence - but! When I sat and thought about it ... 

    None of the stars died. The big names: Elba, Robbie and Cena were safe, because of course they were. Open to correction there.

    Meanwhile, any complaint about runtime feels so redundant these days, now that blockbusters simply default to 2+ hours now; yet still, it could have done with a tighter edit as a few patches sagged and robbed the film of the otherwise constant, manic energy. Just this once the runtime really worked against the film in spots.

    Penn covered the bases here, but doubt, coming so soon after the first film was a mistake - heck just the name being so similar was a bad move IMO. It just made the whole enterprise more confusing than it needed and for once, a colon'ised title would have worked better. It would have worked with the tone of the film if it was called something like Suicide Squad: The Re-Do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,254 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Suicide Squad: Cara Delevingne isn't in this one



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Suicide Squad: Weasel Origins.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,137 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Suicide Squad: Polka Dot Man Rises



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,212 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    Is there any blockbuster that hasn't flopped during COVID? I see Jungle Cruise also is doing badly after a positive opening weekend. I think the film studios thought that piracy was not a big thing anymore. I think the Suicide Squad poor performance is nothing to do with the audiences love for Superhero movies.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,678 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Shang-Chi and The Eternals are in the $150-$200m before marketing so they really need to be doing north of $500m on release , that's not going to happen. At least Spider Man is something that might get people off the sofas though its the type of film best seen as a summer "blockbuster"?

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    While not hitting the same heights as pre-CoVid numbers, Fast & Furious 9 managed to pull $660 million worldwide; but then IIRC this was before Delta came along so perhaps this specific strain has rattled folks, coupled with some localised lockdowns. With Suicide Squad, it's possible the well was just too poisoned by that infamously bad first film to try again so soon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,678 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    as outings go, I'd say cinema would be at the low end of concern, compared to last summer people are back on planes and enjoying normal summer stuff. The audience for bigger summer films are under 40's - 50's , either the offerings or poor or there arent enough of them so going to the cinema has drifted out of people's heads, or because people have been cooped up they aint going to the cinema during this particular summer

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,368 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    The ratings for this are a bit overblown.

    rotten tomatoes 91% critic and 84 % audience.

    IMDB 76%

    It’s enjoyable enough though anything over 70% is pushing it. Is it just me or is this guardians of the galaxy meets dead pool?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,732 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Rotten Tomatoes isn't a weighted score though.

    All '91%' means is 91% of critics gave it a positive review. Every single one of those could have given it an alright three-star review and it'd still be 91%.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,678 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    if things line up for a film, then the audience or reviewers want to will it to be good, most of the reviews I saw acknowledged that there were things wrong with the film but they leaned into saying go see it its a fun film

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,300 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    With F9, it wasn't released online at or near release so I guess there is some truth to online releases/piracy putting a dent in the box office. Also that series is seen as one that people prefer to watch on the big screen. Then wasn't it the first blockbuster release after the latest lockdown? So likely people used it to test the waters of going back to the cinema.

    I think Gunn's involvement at least made reviewers go in with an open mind and let themselves be entertained rather than be really critical of plotholes. Of course the risk was there of constant GotG comparisons.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Movie financing is a zero sum game.

    The money pool goes to one film or the other film.

    Or in the case of a Marvel / DC film - to one of those films versus 3, 4 or 5 decent mid-sized budget ($50 / 60 million) more original / indie films.

    There are lots of low-end budget films being made now but the mid-size to big original IP ones not so much.


    Also there are only so many release slots in the cinema calendar and any big Marvel / DC film will dominate the calendar with big knock-on effects both for original big-budget IP (less made) or indie films.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,678 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    looking at this year a financier couldnt help but notice that smaller films like A Quiet Place can easily turn a decent profit but spending $200m on a B lister Superhero flick isnt that smart. They might work better on the small screen ag Superman and Lois where the costs are a fraction.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,732 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    TBH, if the pandemic puts an end to ‘too big to fail’ $200m blockbusters as the norm… that’s not a bad thing. More smaller, cheaper, riskier films is exactly what mainstream cinema needs, not endless Disney and superhero films.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    We can live in hope that something good comes out of this debacle.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Doesn't even need to be a question of "riskier" film, if we're talking artistic riskiness... we are discussing blockbusters after all. There is a formula to make good, entertaining mainstream movies. Even reboots and sequels TBH. The Jumanji reboot made nearly a billion dollars off of a $90 million dollar budget. All because, IMO and this is speculation ... it wasn't interfered with at the executive level (to get that Four Quadrant blandness); while word of mouth ensured a very entertaining, characterful adventure film kept its legs at the box-office.

    Even picking something really niche, as blockbusters go; 2018's Escape Room made $150 million worldwide off of a $9 million dollar budget. That's a crazy profit margin. Joker of course broke that billion-dollar barrier, albeit off the back of the weird, cultural pearl-clutching that went on around it. So there are examples of smaller mainstream films that do well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,254 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Well I love big-budget superhero films*, and I hope they keep going for years to come**!


    *not Suicide Squad

    **including The Suicide Squad



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I love them too, but I do get a little impatient at how lazy they can be sometimes, how half-hearted and afraid of their own properties the studios act. Like, it's crazy just how many tonal or structural variants of Batman there are in the comics themselves (including particularly outlandish ones like Vampire Batman, or Samurai Batman) - yet we have never got anything except glowering, depressed Batman; heroism a burden rather than a calling.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,678 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    the main counter to you points are that all film genres are cyclical , Film Noir , Westerns etc. if the trend was similar then you would start entering the deconstruction/reimagining phase to which films like Logan and Joker fit the bill. There will still be plenty of films made , they just wont be as significant. If you wait around long enough you might even get remakes lol.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,457 ✭✭✭Acosta


    Perfect copies of it leaking online are also going to hurt it at the box-office.

    I enjoyed it, but wasn't blown away. I was looking forward to it because of Gunn directing. Not a patch on either of the Gaurdians movies, but well worth the watch.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Notwithstanding we're arguably taking about a remake of sorts here, we already saw the remake part of the cycle with the Sony Spider-Man films rebooted with Andrew Garfield. Though in that case it was more IP protection from a studio that had another breathing down its neck.

    I don't subscribe to audience fatigue either TBH. The MCU has created its own niche in cinema history, one that kinda circumvents the usual talk of genre cycles. The MCU is the only TV Show in cinema. It exists outside the principles of genre cycles IMO.

    Where I think the conversation becomes more accurate instead IMO is the market is saturated by others trying to be the MCU. And failing; Hollywood was always the race to be second after all. Even DC had become wedded to aping the MCU, til it started taking this Anything Goes approach when audiences said no.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    There is a distinct hum of badly telling your nan how to suck on ovarian dietary elements to telling a poster like johnny that he can find out about small films by watching or reading some Mark Kermode reviews... Are you also going to tell him about a small fanzine called Empire that also offers some good suggestions for lesser-known fare? ;)

    You may not agree with him, but the issue of opportunity cost in film (both in production/distribution budget and in terms of available exhibition slots) and the functional disappearance of the mid-budget film as a format from many studios is a reality of the industry over the last couple of decades. It's one thing for a single blockbuster tentpole film to generate profits that can go into a number of projects, some of them smaller/more personal/riskier/whatever, but another when the tentpole films mainly fund further tentpole films.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,732 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    I am not for one second suggesting the pandemic hasn’t been (and still is) a human catastrophe of major and devastating scale, so please don’t accuse me of doing so. We’re in a film forum talking about its impact on film-going, a minor but interesting and developing side chapter of an extraordinary period of history.

    It is a fact that a side effect of the past 18 months has been an unprecedented and ongoing disruption of the existing Hollywood business model. Personally, I believe that was a model long overdue a shake-up given a small number of corporations’ and indeed franchises’ dominance of multiplexes, pushing smaller films ever further to the fringes or in many cases streaming platforms. Many great and well-established filmmakers have expressed their frustration at how inflated budgets have made smaller projects more difficult to usher to life. If a few $200m flops encourage studios to do new things or perhaps just scale back a little from hyper-expensive mega blockbusters focus-grouped to within an inch of their life… I simply feel that’d ultimately be beneficial in the long-term for audiences and filmmakers alike. If an MCU film is less of a guaranteed hit, for example, then it could provoke a shake-up and new approaches to draw bored or simply reluctant audiences back.

    This is intended as no insult whatsoever to people who enjoy franchise or superhero films - hell, I enjoyed The Suicide Squad as a funnier, cruder and more colourful take on your average superhero blockbuster! I’m simply stating that I believe mainstream film on the whole would be in a healthier place creatively if the budgets weren’t so inflated (and therefore ‘too big to fail’) as that IMO limits the types of stories and styles being explored. The last 18 months have been unspeakably awful for so many people, and there’ll be all manner of long-term debilitating consequences for art and business alike. But there’ll also be opportunities to maybe do things better in the future too - and that’s certainly not confined to cinema.

    And yes I’m 100% aware there are a plethora of great smaller films being released, as I watch as many of them as I possibly can. They’re just increasingly shunted off to independent and arthouse screens (in many cases, not even those) while the latest ‘tentpole’ releases dominate more and more screens.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,449 ✭✭✭kerplun k


    First time going to the cinema in about 2yrs.... yaaaay.

    Now onto the film. Jeez, that was a mixed bag, it was definitely an experience,

    On one hand the film was beautiful but on the other it was gross. People in my showing actually walked out and I can see why. Maybe it’s my age or the fact that I haven’t been to the cinema in such a long time, but I felt a bit nauseous at some of the more gory bits and the third act gave me a bit of trypophobia.

    It was all a bit gratuitous as well, it definitely could have been scaled back without compromising it.

    I don’t want to say too many bad things about this because I did enjoy, but when I was watching I just kept thinking about those old James Gunn tweets that got dragged up from about 10yrs back, Gunn has a shock/gross out, edgy, sense of humour, and it's not always necessarily funny. I think with GoTG he found his sweet spot, but here he seems to have reverted to his earlier style. TSS lacks the swagger of GoTG and unfortunately the humour falls a bit flat, it does land in parts, but not enough to cover some of the more off colour jokes that just came across as a bit icky.

    10 minutes into this I got a reminder of one of the reasons why I love the cinema and that’s because of the sound. The score in this is awesome, it’s been 2 years since i could watch something with the volume cranked all the way up and not have to worry about lowering anything down because it gets too loud. No babies to worry about, no neighbours, not worrying about anyone in my living space... just take in the glorious sounds, every explosion, every crash, bang and wallop. Deadly.

    You have to applaud Gunns visual style, it’s zany, it’s unique and it’s worth the admission alone. I also think this was margot robbies best outing as harley quinn but I’m thinking WB are probably starting to realise MR/HQ isn’t the golden goose they thought she was.

    overall, it was just great to get to the cinema again. 😀

    Post edited by kerplun k on


  • Registered Users Posts: 345 ✭✭orecir


    Shocked how poor this was, especially with James Gunn directing.


    Went with two mates and we were all disappointed. The first one was better.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    Out of curiosity, what did you like better about the first than this one?

    I thought Ayer's effort was an alright action film let down by some very jumbled editing (itself the result of being forced to cut the planmed ending very late in production), but I can't think of anything I would say it did better than Gunn's film.



  • Registered Users Posts: 345 ✭✭orecir


    It was far too cartoony for my liking and the humour felt very forced in places.


    Also Elbas character was basically Will Smiths from the original in all but name. Smith is a far superior actor for me also.


    Film needed to drop at least 30 mins of runtime.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭santana75


    Thought I was the only one who preferred the first one



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,449 ✭✭✭kerplun k


    Shout out to John Murphy. The music was brilliant. I haven’t stop listening to the OST on my Spotify today. The music blended with some of Gunns visuals was a real highlight for me.



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  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    Thanks for replying :)

    I think the cartoonishness actually made it work better for me. The premise is a bit daft and wouldn't stand up to something like the po-faced seriousness Snyder's films aim for, so for me leaning into the oddness meant that it all felt internally consistent. I can see it being a bit of a struggle if if doesn't work that way for you, though.

    Elba's character is very obviously a do-over of Smith's, although personally I preferred Elba's version. Smith's version didn't really land for me, it was a bit too Yes He's A Contract Killer But He's Lovely Really Because He Cares About His Daughter for me. Gunn's more abrasive and gruff take on the same basic character arc felt more believable to me, but I'm sure part of that is because I like Elba more than Smith as an actor.

    Oddly enough watching it I didn't feel the film was over-long but thinking about it now, I might find it dragging a bit a second time around. I definitely enjoyed the Big Bad fight in the new film more than Ayer's, again partly because it leaned into the cartoonish weirdness.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I loved the final fight so much. Not just that it wasn't a sky beam but it felt like a properly defined fight with immediate stakes, while its heroes had a purpose within the scuffle. Everyone brought something to the table and Waller's pick of the team made sense in the end. And just the idea of the big bad being an accidental nemesis was such a good change. The javelin's ultimate purpose also a bookend deserving of a chef's kiss...

    The starfish zombies were gross, real body horror stuff but Starro itself just wanted to go back to the stars, píssed off at humanity for its torture. Its last, dying line was kinda heart breaking and I didn't expect to feel genuine sympathy for the last act antagonist; a giant starfish. That was the genius of this script - frequent, genuine heart within the outlandish gore.

    And the tone just sat better than the chaos of the first film. You could really tell Ayer's film was meant to be much grittier, more akin to Synders films than the forced goofball style wedged in by the marketing company who actually cut the final film. Gunn's approach felt much more consistent, and properly, playfully subversive this time. The competitive killing scene possibly the highlight there - whose punchline had me in stitches. Not to mention the frequent "mother vision" moments. The earlier attempt had that self-serious earnestness that never gelled, never came together and has sagged the mainline DC films. That constant attempt to ignore how silly everything was; Gunn understood the natural incongruity of superheroics and leaned in.

    Plus if you want a good example to compare a good way versus bad, the needle drops between the previous version and this one is night and day. The difference between a hammer and a scalpel.

    The run time was an issue mind you; the midpoint lagged a little as Harley's solo scenes killed the pace a tad (but then, her big John Wick set piece was fantastic so wouldn't want to lose it), ditto the night club one; but I was never bored, never irritated by the contrivance or attempts at humour. I said in my original comment this film was knowingly stupid; it had an identity, a voice and personality.

    James Gunn should run the DC stable IMO, not Zack Snyder. Go full R rated insanity; The Boys without the nihilistic, adolescent cynicism. But alas, the financial failure of this film means we're unlikely to see another one like it.

    Post edited by pixelburp on


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,287 ✭✭✭givyjoe


    Genuinely don't understand why so many people like this film, thought it was absolute garbage from beginning to (mostly) end. Worse than the first one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,678 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    given the Dr who actor in it, had the thought that the whole starfish malarkey would have made a good xmas Dr Who

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,909 ✭✭✭Gwynplaine


    Thanks for the heads up, the first one was atrocious.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,680 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    I had very low expectations for this and ended up really enjoying it. Definitely the James Gunn of Super rather than Guardians. The trailers don't do it justice and make it seem like more of the same but really this is what the first film should have been.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,822 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    I felt it was overly long, too gory for a child, yet too dumb for an adult. I'm sure there will be plenty of people that will enjoy it though, just not for me.



  • Posts: 11,614 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I think its because Deadpool is truly an adult film, and adults truly have the money to go see it and even go and rewatch it in the cinema



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    People have an attachment to Deadpool whereas this was an ensemble movie with nearly all the characters are completely disposable.

    I enjoyed this movie but it was missing Gunn's normal quality of getting you to care about the characters. It was a cool idea to bring out all these characters that basically no one has heard of but when you're introducing so many you end up with gore for the sake of it.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    It's an interesting compare and contrast I suppose in the rare field of R rates superhero films. Deadpool was a definitive comedy complete with gags, punchlines and puns, with occasional splatter;, whereas the humour in Suicide Squad was often drawn from its brazen vulgarity and gore. It pushed itself as transgressive IMO. I think the former was an easier sell. And the brand of Ryan Reynolds probably drew in the casual curious, whereas I still maintain the literal, titular closeness of this sequel to the maligned original was a mistake.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭Slydice


    Gave this a watch. It did feel like a Suicide Squad film.. but.. somehow.. it also felt like it dragged on a bit. Wierd.

    It did feel like it delivered on what it promised and ticked all the Suicide Squad boxes.

    If anything, it felt like it lay the groundwork for a vicious sequel..

    Waller, I am guessing, needs to re-establish that she's in charge.. although with the Peacekeeper setup.. it looks like Warner Bros might want to take the whole thing in a softer funnier direction.


    One stand out performance in the film was Alice Braga. I was like.. she needs to be in a predator film immediately!.. and then I checked and remembered she was in Predators and I don't have any bad impression of her performance there too. I checked what else she's been in since then .. not much that I've seen: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0103797/

    Feels like she should have gotten more actioney roles. She totally reminds me of the lead alongside Arnie in the running man.. who was Maria Conchita Alonso.. who.. hah 🙂 now that I check turns out was in Predator 2 😀: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000744/



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