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Ladies only Gyms... a sexism uturn, or a refuge?

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    #152
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    quietsailor wrote: »
    Sorry to drag up a post from much earlier in the thread but there is a thread over in the Greystones forum about a group of men setting up a MensSheds - they are being accused of neandrathalism and misogny.

    Look at the irony - On one thread we have people saying a specific gender should be allowed same sex activity as they feel more comfortable -- over on the other thread there are people saying that a same sex activity is wrong, should be banned, should not be given any encouragement.

    I am glad to see this is had started and is spreading, it's a wonderful outlet other then the pub and men do need man only supportive spaces.


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    #153
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    Bruce7 wrote: »
    Because men dont care if women have women only clubs. The mystery to me is why women care if men do.

    Because when women were first allowed to work outside of the home and were finally allowed into the professions, ways were found to exclude them.

    They were unable to network with peer and others in the field due to events being held or deals being made in Gentlemen's clubs and Golf clubs were women were forbidden.

    It's that simple, were men's groups are set up for specific reason's which are not work related and for support then it is a wonderful thing.


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    #154
    Chinafoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,894 ✭✭✭Chinafoot


    CiaranC wrote: »
    I really dont understand this. What difference does it make if its men or women who are looking at you? Do you think men are judging you by your body but women arent? Why would this be the case?

    Did you even read my post? I'm guessing not since you clearly missed what I said. I said:
    Chinafoot wrote: »
    I would hazard a guess that most people are more self-conscience about their bodies and how other, more fit people (regardless of gender) view them as opposed to being worried about having to fend of lusty men.

    The women who use Curves are generally unfit and overweight at the beginning. It can be assumed that they will not be judging other women who are in exactly the same position as themselves. I would also have no issue with a gym like Curves that also served overweight and unfit men, should those men want to use it. As it stands now, Curves is geared at women and given how long they've been on the go there is clearly a market for them. If men want a male-only gym then start one. There's no point in bitching about women-only gyms when there is nothing stopping the male equivalent being set up.


    CiaranC wrote: »
    I got a bit fat a few months back, I got a bit self concious at the beach with the old rubber tyre on display. I dont remember thinking "I wish it was all blokes here", it never occurred to me. I think there is more in the psychology of this than is being stated.

    Again, missing the point completely. You could have thought "I wish it was all fat blokes here" and then you'd be closer to the gym scenario. Or you could have thought "I wish it was all fat people here." Its all the same to me. You'd feel more comfortable because you'd be with people who are the same as you and therefore less likely to judge you on your appearance.

    CiaranC wrote: »
    Its like women think if they go to an all womens gym men wont find out that they are fat or something and they can sort it out before men find out. Bizarre.

    What a thoroughly ridiculous statement.


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    #155
    Logical Fallacy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    quietsailor wrote: »
    Sorry to drag up a post from much earlier in the thread but there is a thread over in the Greystones forum about a group of men setting up a MensSheds - they are being accused of neandrathalism and misogny.

    Look at the irony - On one thread we have people saying a specific gender should be allowed same sex activity as they feel more comfortable -- over on the other thread there are people saying that a same sex activity is wrong, should be banned, should not be given any encouragement.

    How is this irony?

    Different people have different opinions, if the same person is espousing two conflicting opinions in the same thread then they are guilty of hypocrisy.

    I wish i lived in a world where more people knew what irony actually was.

    Hint : Alanis Morriset was way off.


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    #156
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Firekitten wrote: »
    Personally, I definitely think it SHOULD be, if not already in existence. I can however see some groups attacking male only spaces out of a misguided sense of feminism (Not all male only spaces are 'opressing our rights to be equals') whilst patently ignoring the irony of thier stance.
    It seems Portmarnock Golf Club was only allowed to be "male only" as it allowed women to play on certain times and days. Whereas the "women only" gyms, IIRC, don't allow men in at any time.
    smallBiscuit wrote: »
    Any one remember the pub that was sued because they refused travellers?
    Pubs often refuse travellers to protect both male and female patrons, as well as the bar staff and the bar itself. Traveller wedding/funeral/etc usually equals bloodbath. When it doesn't equal bloodbath, it'll just equal fights.
    Firekitten wrote: »
    I suppose you disaprove of single sex schools too?
    I approve of single sex schools, as I disagree that men and women should be taught exactly the same way, as I disagree that men and womens brains are wired the same way.
    Chinafoot wrote: »
    There is absolutely nothing stopping anyone from setting up a male only gym if they have the capital and the demand to run it successfully.
    I suspect they'd be wary after the PGC case.
    ash23 wrote: »
    Is it maybe just a case that women are being more pro-active and taking legal action against golf clubs and men are not doing the same?
    I do not know of any "pro-male" political groups. I would wonder how it'd be seen by the female population, if one existed.
    hollypink wrote: »
    Well it was the equality authority that took the case against Portmarnock golf club and the club won in the end. And based on the ruling, it doesn't seem like anyone would have a case against a single sex gym:

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1103/portmarnock.html
    Actually, they allowed women to play on certain days and times, they just didn't allow women to be members. Women only gyms AFAIK don't have days and times that men are allowed in.
    Sharrow wrote: »
    Male only spaces blocking equality goes back to 'old boys clubs' (some of which were golf clubs) were women were not permitted and men would talk shop and network in a way which was not done else were so that women never got a foot in the door.
    Most likely true, but this could be said of any male-only space.

    If you get a group of men in any male-only space, you'll get the possibility of networking, which was amongst the reasons why the National Women’s Council of Ireland supported the case against the PGC. Thus I could see them* eventually attacking any male-only clubs :/

    And by "them" I mean women who want equal status as men, but at the same time want women only gyms. A minority, maybe, but a very loud one.


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    #157
    Chinafoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,894 ✭✭✭Chinafoot


    the_syco wrote: »
    I suspect they'd be wary after the PGC case.

    Wasn't the decision to not allow women become full members upheld in the Supreme Court? The whole thing was ridiculous to me so I'm not exactly up on the outcome.
    RTE News, 2009 wrote:
    n 2005, the High Court overturned a District Court decision and ruled that Portmarnock was not a discriminating club because its principal purpose was to cater only for the needs of a particular gender, an exemption allowed under the legislation.

    The Supreme Court upheld that ruling...

    Being wary of something that is perfectly acceptable within the law and therefore making the decision to not even attempt to set one up is not the same as women denying men their rights to a male-only gym, as has been stated in this thread. The fact that some women might complain does not mean men shouldn't go ahead if the demand for the service is there.


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    #158
    rich1874
    Registered Users Posts: 197 ✭✭rich1874


    hollypink wrote: »
    I heard a piece on RTE radio last week about women in Israel in ultra Orthodox neighbourhoods having to sit at the back of the bus because those men (and women presumably) believe the sexes shouldnt mingle. It made me feel angry for a moment. http://edition.cnn.com/2011/12/19/world/meast/israel-rosa-parks/index.html And yet we're talking about segregating ourselves from men to exercise because of self-consciousness? It just seems like a step backwards.

    Yes but at least you have a choice, you don't have to go to the All Ladies Gym, as you said you can go running outside or go to a normal gym, nobody is stopping you. So there's no need to be so dramatic. That israel thing is a different monster altogether.


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    #159
    animaal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 815 ✭✭✭animaal


    I'm happy enough for Curves to set up a gym just for women. And I'm happy enough for a golf club to allow men members only. If you look at all the "Irish Women" and "Irish Men" threads, we definitely need a little space apart once in a while.

    What annoyed me was when I first started going to the gym, there were a few hours during the week that were for women only. It was only a few hours, but these tended to be on weekday evenings.

    Because of work, I only had the chance to go a couple of times a week, and there were times when I worked late and my availability clashed with "women's time". And if I hadn't been to the gym in a week, it was very difficult to work up the motivation to go again... Golf clubs often have reduced rates for people without the same rights as full members, maybe something similar should be done where gyms have members with access to reduced facilities.


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    #160
    quietsailor
    Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭quietsailor


    Logical Fallacy wrote: »
    How is this irony?

    Different people have different opinions, if the same person is espousing two conflicting opinions in the same thread then they are guilty of hypocrisy.

    I wish i lived in a world where more people knew what irony actually was.

    Hint : Alanis Morriset was way off.

    I do know what irony is - saying something that means the opposite to emphasise something. Its the best word I could think of, hypocrisy can't be used although it probably describes the situation best

    first read the post - it's talking about 2 different threads, that's important as it's impossible to say hypocrisy if it's different people making the comments.

    Saying that if you want to say posts in both threads were written by a general group - call it what you want, feminists/women - then and only then can you call it hypocrisy. Mind you if the posts were written by the same people in both threads then it would be truly jaw dropping hypocrisy wouldn't it :p


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    #161
    rich.d.berry
    Registered Users Posts: 517 ✭✭✭rich.d.berry


    quietsailor wrote: »
    I do know what irony is - saying something that means the opposite to emphasise something.

    Wrong! That is not irony. That is sarcasm.

    This story is ironic. The owner of the company spent a lot of time and effort in promoting the product as safe, then it kills him.

    See this link for a better explanation than I could produce.


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    #162
    gymfreak
    Registered Users Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭gymfreak


    I just read through the entire thread there and I am amazed at some peoples' experiences/ views.

    Personally, I don't agree with women's only gyms..just the same way that I'd be really annoyed if I was told I wasn't allowed to go into a male orientated gym.

    I really just wanted to comment in relation to the comments about men leering/ perving in gyms and about women feeling uncomfortable. I train 5/6 days a week and I can honestly say that I have never felt as though any guy was perving. Most people are there to do there stuff and just want to get on with it, just because they're looking around or killing time between sets doesnt mean their perving. I love people-watching and no one says anything to me when I'm looking around between sets!

    I just felt men were getting a bit of bad press there...wanted to jump to their defence!!! :D:D


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    #163
    panda100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,551 ✭✭✭panda100


    I really think that people are missing what is being said here on this thread.

    Noone is saying,as far as I can see, that men are perving or leering on women in the gym and that is what is making them uncomfortable. From what I am reading and from my own experience, women are saying that they are more self concious about how they loo,k and what their bodies look like when there are men around.This is completely understandable as women are under a lot of pressure from a young age to look perfect. I am not saying that men are not also under the same pressures, but imho not to the same extent as women are.

    Women feel more comfortable in women only gyms because they are self concious about how other people view their bodies. If there is only other women this may make them feel more comfortable while they exercise.


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