Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Ladies only Gyms... a sexism uturn, or a refuge?

Options
1356

Comments

  • Options
    #62
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    BarackPyjama wrote: »
    Report them to management.

    Do you really think the staff give a fúck and want to deal with it?


    The Management/owners won't want the hassle or the rep of the place being tarnished or any chance of a law suit. People who sign a contract and stop going and still have to pay are the management's ideal customers.

    A person who is going to have such bad manners and stray outsides societies normal behaviours to do that may also decide to not conform to other socail graces and manners. Who wants the creepy guy from the gym bearing a grudge cos you reported him to staff and there was a scene?

    Saying report it is easily said, hard to do and can be hard to prove.
    esp when there are people all to ready to try and say it's all in a woman's head or that she could get over it,
    which we have already seen in this thread.


  • Options
    #63
    Daftendirekt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Daftendirekt


    I'd say single sex facilities are deemed okay because even though society doesn't allow outright discrimination on gender grounds, it also recognises that there are some differences between men and women. Whether that's right or wrong, or whether it will come to be seen as wrong in the future remains to be seen.

    In the meantime though, I'd see it as being an extension of the reasoning for single sex changing rooms or toilets, not to mention things like support or counselling services specifically for men/women.

    I'd also have to call into question the OP's assertion that a male only gym wouldn't be allowed. The reason you've never seen one is probably that there's not enough demand among men to justify setting one up. I'll concede that if it wasn't allowed, it would make the idea of womens' gyms sexist, but I don't think that's the case. After all, I believe there are male-only golf clubs out there. The reasoning's the same, just with the genders reversed.


  • Options
    #64
    Firekitten
    Registered Users Posts: 4,205 ✭✭✭Firekitten


    Not sure I said it wouldn't be allowed... if it was said in my original post, it may have been a quote from my boyfriend with whom I hadf the original debate. Personally, I definitely think it SHOULD be, if not already in existence. I can however see some groups attacking male only spaces out of a misguided sense of feminism (Not all male only spaces are 'opressing our rights to be equals') whilst patently ignoring the irony of thier stance.


  • Options
    #65
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    Male only spaces blocking equality goes back to 'old boys clubs' (some of which were golf clubs) were women were not permitted and men would talk shop and network in a way which was not done else were so that women never got a foot in the door.

    There is a huge difference between that and places which are gendered for a reason,
    like testicular cancer support groups, male victims of rape or partner abuse groups, hysterectomy support groups ect.

    Yes women only sections in gyms are slight different in the reason they are being set up would be due to it being impossible to police the arseholes who make women uncomfortable, yes it would be wonderful and liberating to live in a world were that doesn't happen or were it's easily tackled so the imperfect solution is women only spaces.

    Yes is the same type of reasoning which if taken to an extreme leads to us all wearing burkas but, it sounds like your chap is an idealist who doesn't get while he may behave like a gentleman many other's don't and this is the imperfect world we have to try and live in, and it doesn't mean the gym thinks he is an arsehole but should just hope that we all evolve a little more eventually.


  • Options
    #66
    BarackPyjama
    Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    Could straight men petition to have homosexual men banned from certain gyms because they find them threatening and a creepy? No. There would be uproar. Advocating women only gyms on the same basis is no different.

    As I said before - misandry, pure and simple.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #67
    BarackPyjama
    Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    Sharrow wrote: »
    Yes is the same type of reasoning which if taken to an extreme leads to us all wearing burkas but, it sounds like your chap is an idealist who doesn't get while he may behave like a gentleman many other's don't and this is the imperfect world we have to try and live in, and it doesn't mean the gym thinks he is an arsehole but should just hope that we all evolve a little more eventually.

    Nonsense in fairness. My last full-time job was in a female dominated company and there was a horrific amount of bitchyness, bullying and psychological abuse - notably by female staff and management against the minority male employees. Should I advocate that we have male-only companies because of this? No, I wouldn't. Sure I'd be labeled a misogynistic lunatic for even suggesting such a thing. At any rate, I would never label all women as callous and nasty as those I previously worked with/for. But the rationale of women-only gyms for the purpose of 'keeping the bad, creepy men out' is precisely the same kind of discrimination. I don't know how anyone can justify it as anything other than pure sexism.


  • Options
    #68
    smallBiscuit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭smallBiscuit


    BarackPyjama wrote: »
    Could straight men petition to have homosexual men banned from certain gyms because they find them threatening and a creepy? No. There would be uproar. Advocating women only gyms on the same basis is no different.

    As I said before - misandry, pure and simple.
    You know, I love it when someone changes my position. Thanks Ickle :)

    For a moment, forget about misogyny and misandry. Think only of ecenomics.
    If you open a women only gym, will they go? Yes

    If you open a man only gym, will they go? Probably not.
    Ecenomics ....

    Me personally, I wouldn't care, which ever was closest would be the one I'd go to. If the only one near me for miles was woman only, then I might do something


  • Options
    #69
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    Well if you were in the gym and noticed a person leering would you say anything to them?


  • Options
    #70
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    BarackPyjama wrote: »
    Nonsense in fairness. My last full-time job was in a female dominated company and there was a horrific amount of bitchyness, bullying and psychological abuse - notably by female staff and management against the minority male employees. Should I advocate that we have male-only companies because of this? No, I wouldn't. Sure I'd be labeled a misogynistic lunatic for even suggesting such a thing. At any rate, I would never label all women as callous and nasty as those I previously worked with/for. But the rationale of women-only gyms for the purpose of 'keeping the bad, creepy men out' is precisely the same kind of discrimination. I don't know how anyone can justify it as anything other than pure sexism.

    Clearly you missed the part about it possibly being barely 1% of men?

    And there are clear rules and guideline and indeed laws for bullying in the work place, there is not for gyms.


  • Options
    #71
    BarackPyjama
    Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    smallBiscuit wrote: »
    You know, I love it when someone changes my position. Thanks Ickle :)

    For a moment, forget about misogyny and misandry. Think only of ecenomics.
    If you open a women only gym, will they go? Yes

    If you open a man only gym, will they go? Probably not.
    Ecenomics ....

    By your logic then it's okay for Dublin bus to refuse immigrants and ethnic minorities on some routes... if there's enough of a demand for it by the indigenous white Irish population. It sounds like an extreme example but it's precisely what you're saying. You can't just discriminate against people, even men, just because there's a profit to be had.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #72
    smallBiscuit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭smallBiscuit


    Sharrow wrote: »
    Well if you were in the gym and noticed a person leering would you say anything to them?
    Depends, as much on my humour as anything else. I might stare at them, while scratching my noise with one finger.

    If it was a woman I think I might smile and wave, then finger and turn away.


    Or I might feel very awkward, and leave. :)


  • Options
    #73
    smallBiscuit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭smallBiscuit


    BarackPyjama wrote: »
    smallBiscuit wrote: »
    You know, I love it when someone changes my position. Thanks Ickle :)

    For a moment, forget about misogyny and misandry. Think only of ecenomics.
    If you open a women only gym, will they go? Yes

    If you open a man only gym, will they go? Probably not.
    Ecenomics ....

    By your logic then it's okay for Dublin bus to refuse immigrants and ethnic minorities on some routes... if there's enough of a demand for it by the indigenous white Irish population. It sounds like an extreme example but it's precisely what you're saying. You can't just discriminate against people, even men, just because there's a profit to be had.

    No that's not what I'm saying, I'm saying if a bus route was un economical, it would be canceled, as I believe some recently were.

    Some thing with a male only gym, no members, so it closes....

    This I think can be blamed on men, and men only :D


  • Options
    #74
    Daftendirekt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Daftendirekt


    Firekitten wrote: »
    Not sure I said it wouldn't be allowed... if it was said in my original post, it may have been a quote from my boyfriend with whom I hadf the original debate.

    Quite possibly. Apologies if I misread you. That's the danger of skim-reading!
    Personally, I definitely think it SHOULD be, if not already in existence. I can however see some groups attacking male only spaces out of a misguided sense of feminism (Not all male only spaces are 'opressing our rights to be equals') whilst patently ignoring the irony of thier stance.

    You may well be right about this. I'd be quite curious to see whether the law would side with them or not, though I suspect it wouldn't.


  • Options
    #75
    BarackPyjama
    Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    Sharrow wrote: »
    Clearly you missed the part about it possibly being barely 1% of men?

    Exactly. 1% of men, if it's even that many, and women-only gyms discriminate against all men. That's why it's called discrimination.
    Sharrow wrote: »
    And there are clear rules and guideline and indeed laws for bullying in the work place, there is not for gyms.

    I'm pretty sure there are laws against harassment in all walks of life. A quiet word in the ear of a gym instructor or manager that a certain cretin is leering at women and making them feel uncomfortable is all that's needed to bring it to their attention. If he's making a habit of it, he'll be caught out. In my 10 years as a gym instructor, I never heard a report of any harassment and, most importantly, never saw any men acting inappropriately. You catch the odd guy catching a peek at a nice looking girl once in a while. The same goes for women looking at men. It's human nature. It doesn't call for discrimination and the thinly veiled stigmatisation of men.


  • Options
    #76
    Standman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭Standman


    BarackPyjama wrote: »
    By your logic then it's okay for Dublin bus to refuse immigrants and ethnic minorities on some routes... if there's enough of a demand for it by the indigenous white Irish population. It sounds like an extreme example but it's precisely what you're saying. You can't just discriminate against people, even men, just because there's a profit to be had.

    yes you can.


  • Options
    #77
    BarackPyjama
    Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    Standman wrote: »
    yes you can.

    Well yeah, if you're discriminating against men. Women, ehtnic minorities, homosexuals, etc. get special dispensation. :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #78
    BarackPyjama
    Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    smallBiscuit wrote: »
    No that's not what I'm saying, I'm saying if a bus route was un economical, it would be canceled, as I believe some recently were.

    Some thing with a male only gym, no members, so it closes....

    This I think can be blamed on men, and men only :D

    Yes but my point is that businesses have a legal obligation not to discriminate against anyone. Although the law seems to have a pretty apathetic view on what constitutes discrimination against men.

    Anyway, that's my 2c. Discrimination in all its forms is wrong and unethical. Even if it's thinly veiled sexism masquerading as victimisation.


  • Options
    #79
    Standman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭Standman


    BarackPyjama wrote: »
    Well yeah, if you're discriminating against men. Women, ehtnic minorities, homosexuals, etc. get special dispensation. :rolleyes:

    Are you against the idea of businesses being able to discriminate between the genders where demand requires it, or are you annoyed at the perceived double standard where it would not be as easily accepted were the genders reversed in this situation? Because they are two different things you need to clarify between. Personally I think businesses should be free to discriminate if there is enough demand for something, as long as it is within reason and the law. That doesn't mean that I agree that women only gyms are a good thing, it just means that I accept their right to exist.


  • Options
    #80
    stanley1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭stanley1


    same topic, womens mini-marathon, never seen a mens mini-marathon.


  • Options
    #81
    BarackPyjama
    Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    Standman wrote: »
    Are you against the idea of businesses being able to discriminate between the genders where demand requires it, or are you annoyed at the perceived double standard where it would not be as easily accepted were the genders reversed in this situation?

    I'm annoyed that businesses should be allowed to discriminate against men based on the perceived notion that men pose a significant threat to women. You can't discriminate against an entire gender because of an offensive and abhorrent stereotype.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #82
    Gauge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,818 ✭✭✭Gauge


    stanley1 wrote: »
    same topic, womens mini-marathon, never seen a mens mini-marathon.

    This years one was on May 2nd actually.


  • Options
    #83
    stanley1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭stanley1


    ??????????????????


  • Options
    #84
    Standman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭Standman


    BarackPyjama wrote: »
    I'm annoyed that businesses should be allowed to discriminate against men based on the perceived notion that men pose a significant threat to women. You can't discriminate against an entire gender because of an offensive and abhorrent stereotype.

    I was under the impression that women only gyms are in demand mainly because many women feel uncomfortable working out in front of the opposite sex, not because men pose a "significant threat". These women just don't like to be watched by men while they work out and it's entirely their prerogative.

    As a man I do not feel discriminated against because the existence of female only gyms does not affect me negatively in any way. I can understand the argument against women getting a "women only section" in a mixed gym where both genders pay the same fee but one gender gets access to more machines, in this case it is really a case of unfairness due to discrimination.

    This is not about men, it's about some women's own insecurities.


  • Options
    #85
    stanley1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭stanley1


    Gauge wrote: »
    This years one was on May 2nd actually.

    won't be doin that one, too elitest.


  • Options
    #86
    Daftendirekt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Daftendirekt


    BarackPyjama wrote: »
    By your logic then it's okay for Dublin bus to refuse immigrants and ethnic minorities on some routes... if there's enough of a demand for it by the indigenous white Irish population. It sounds like an extreme example but it's precisely what you're saying. You can't just discriminate against people, even men, just because there's a profit to be had.

    It's not really the same thing, though. You can't tell anything about a persons transport needs from their nationality or ethnicity, so there's no valid reason to have Irish-only bus routes.

    It is, however, generally accepted that you can make certain assumptions a person based on gender in certain contexts - men will generally be physically stronger, so we often have separate male and female sporting divisions; women will often have different taste in literature than men, so there are women's and men's book clubs (I think! I'm almost positive I've heard of them). Hell, on this very site there are two gender-based discussion forums, though admittedly neither of them are exclusive to one gender.


  • Options
    #87
    Lapsed Catholic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 146 ✭✭Lapsed Catholic


    As I already stated I have no problem with single sex gyms, as long as they exist for both sexes. It is not about demand or business acumen its about the hypocrisy of some women advocating female only gyms yet denying males the same rights. Denying a man membership of a gym on the grounds that his presence will embarrass some women is as ludicrous as denying women equality in golf clubs. To argue otherwise is disingenuous.


  • Options
    #88
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Yes there would be uproar from some women if there were a men only gym - although the reason for a women only gym is a request for it, not "misandry". :rolleyes:
    So why isn't there uproar over this from men? Oh yeah that's right - much easier to bitch and moan and blame "the" feminists. At least they actually get out there and complain if they've a gripe (even if I don't agree with them a lot of the time).
    There is of course also the victimhood of the white man to navel-gaze over - yeah sure, they're never presidents or prime ministers or powerful businessmen. :D
    Seriously though, men do face discrimination and sexism when it comes to certain aspects of life, but to maintain that they are in general a terribly downtrodden group, wake up.


  • Options
    #89
    Carlos Orange
    Registered Users Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    Daftendirekt wrote: »
    It's not really the same thing, though. You can't tell anything about a persons transport needs from their nationality or ethnicity, so there's no valid reason to have Irish-only bus routes.

    It is, however, generally accepted that you can make certain assumptions a person based on gender in certain contexts - men will generally be physically stronger, so we often have separate male and female sporting divisions; women will often have different taste in literature than men, so there are women's and men's book clubs (I think! I'm almost positive I've heard of them). Hell, on this very site there are two gender-based discussion forums, though admittedly neither of them are exclusive to one gender.

    How about white only gyms because white people are scared of blacks?


  • Options
    #90
    Daftendirekt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Daftendirekt


    psinno wrote: »
    How about white only gyms because white people are scared of blacks?

    But white people aren't generally scared of black people. Just a handful of racists.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #91
    Cossax
    Registered Users Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭Cossax


    Daftendirekt wrote: »
    But white people aren't generally scared of black people. Just a handful of racists.

    I think that's rather the poster's point.


Advertisement