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26-01-2020, 00:32   #1
Stovepipe
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explain the need for a pension age extension...

Can anyone explain why, in an intelligent fashion,why the pension age has to be pushed out to 68? I'm of the opinion that the Govt are only doing so because Europe or the Troika told them to do so, while protecting pension rights for more expensive workers like the Germans or French? Why should we tolerate the pension mess?
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26-01-2020, 00:34   #2
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I’m not fan of the age increase but I would imagine the rational is to do with increased life expectancy. Look at the average life expectancy when the old age pension was introduced compared to today.
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26-01-2020, 00:36   #3
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People are now living too long and are much harder to control and manipulate if they have time and an independent source of income. The older and wiser are also harder to fool and brainwash.
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26-01-2020, 00:37   #4
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The French didn't agree with such proposed age rises, and so have now theirs reduced down to 64.
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26-01-2020, 00:41   #5
Nijmegen
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People are living longer and having fewer children. Today there are five people of working age to support every person over 65. By 2036 it will be half that. Between 2007 and 2018 spending on the state pension has already doubled to €5bn per year. The emotional arguments about it can’t really get ahead of the fact that demography has baked in huge increases in pension spending that are unaffordable. Pensioners and near pensioners vote today. But if we kick the can down the road, working age people whose kids can’t get into a decent school because all the money is going into pensions (as it’s a pay as we go system, you don’t really really pay into a savings account for your state pension) might vote to screw them in their dotage. Better to face facts now and also push people to save more themselves for their retirements.

http://publicpolicy.ie/papers/irish-...pient-numbers/

https://twitter.com/danobrien20/stat...001481728?s=21
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26-01-2020, 00:41   #6
Pawwed Rig
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If they stopped raising it every year to buy votes it wouldn't need an age increase. At the end of the day it comes down to cost. The govt is not able to deal with the money we give them in any kind of efficient manner so wastage has to be absorbed somewhere
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26-01-2020, 00:42   #7
ILoveYourVibes
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Originally Posted by Stovepipe View Post
Can anyone explain why, in an intelligent fashion,why the pension age has to be pushed out to 68? I'm of the opinion that the Govt are only doing so because Europe or the Troika told them to do so, while protecting pension rights for more expensive workers like the Germans or French? Why should we tolerate the pension mess?
We shouldn't.
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26-01-2020, 00:44   #8
wmahcm
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If they stopped raising it every year to buy votes it wouldn't need an age increase. At the end of the day it comes down to cost. The govt is not able to deal with the money we give them in any kind of efficient manner so wastage has to be absorbed somewhere
Irish governments always have and always will waste money.

Do you really believe the contributory state pension is one of the worst wastage's ?
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26-01-2020, 00:58   #9
suicide_circus
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The French didn't agree with such proposed age rises, and so have now theirs reduced down to 64.
and they will pay for it in the long run. no one likes the age increase but as i have stated in other threads, i have been in some kind of employment for the last 20 years and i have known for most of it that i wont see any state pension before i'm 70. increased life expectancy has a trade off, nothing is 100% positive.
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26-01-2020, 01:00   #10
Pawwed Rig
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Irish governments always have and always will waste money.

Do you really believe the contributory state pension is one of the worst wastage's ?
God no. The HSE is by far the biggest waste. Raising the age of the pension though absorbs some of that waste
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26-01-2020, 01:04   #11
wmahcm
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God no. The HSE is by far the biggest waste. Raising the age of the pension though absorbs some of that waste
So you think a good solution to HSE wastage is raising the contributory state pension age ?
Sorry . . I'm not really seeing the logic here.
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26-01-2020, 01:04   #12
Stovepipe
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Right now, the death rate is 6.4 per 1000 and the birth rate is 12.5 per 1000, so we appear to be replacing ourselves at an approximate 2 for 1 rate, which means that potentially, we will put away more for pensions than we will consume. Also, the average life expectancy for men is 80 and women 82, so that gives 15 and 17 years respectively after an aged-65 retirement. Quite how, after paying a pension for 40 years, a person taking 15 years worth and then dying is a drain on the system is beyond me, especially if their pension is contributory, which is less of a burden on the State. Perhaps if the State allowed ordinary people to put more funds into a pension pot, like the American 401 (k), then there would be less of an alleged burden on the State.
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26-01-2020, 01:07   #13
 
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I mean what was life expectancy when it brought in at 65? They usually didn't expect most men to live last 73 or something wasn't it?

Unfortunately like it or not it will have to increase. I'm only 30 and expect to be kept going until 75

I don't know why they don't just create legislation saying it's illegal to make people retire before 68 then amend it each time it's changed

The real worry I have is with the amount of people trapped renting now and no hope of owning their own home where's all this future HAP and rent allowance going to come from?
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26-01-2020, 01:09   #14
Nijmegen
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Right now, the death rate is 6.4 per 1000 and the birth rate is 12.5 per 1000, so we appear to be replacing ourselves at an approximate 2 for 1 rate, which means that potentially, we will put away more for pensions than we will consume. Also, the average life expectancy for men is 80 and women 82, so that gives 15 and 17 years respectively after an aged-65 retirement. Quite how, after paying a pension for 40 years, a person taking 15 years worth and then dying is a drain on the system is beyond me, especially if their pension is contributory, which is less of a burden on the State. Perhaps if the State allowed ordinary people to put more funds into a pension pot, like the American 401 (k), then there would be less of an alleged burden on the State.
The state pension is not backed by a fund in your name. Your PRSI contributions mostly go out as they go in. So what matters is how many working age people there will be for pensioners in 15 years. That number will be half what it is today per the CSO models on it.

As for allowing people to contribute more to their pensions, tax relief is available up to €115,000 per year of income on contributions ranging from 15% in your 20s to 40% in your 60s. Not sure how much more generous the state could be in not taxing money you decide to save for yourself for retirement.
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26-01-2020, 01:11   #15
wmahcm
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Unfortunately like it or not it will have to increase. I'm only 30 and expect to be kept going until 75
I wouldn't worry about it, there won't be a contributory state pension by the time you retire. The ever increasing indoctrination of ageism into Irish society will ensure it has been phased out long before then.
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