Junior Diplomat/Third Secretary

TrinnerWinner · 30-10-2013 10:11pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

I think it said you had until 4PM on Monday to complete it- and you'd be e-mailed a link to the test tomorrow. (Please correct me someone if I've picked that up wrong).

The booklet was really vague I thought. From memory it just gave the week during which the first assessment would take place. And the 'mail' I received had almost no detail! It would be great if anyone else had a link to what you say or even any evidence to back it up!

TrinnerWinner · 30-10-2013 10:28pm

Sorry Conductor - just found it in the test advice centre - talk about a labyrinthine way of providing information! Thanks!:D

salmon1 · 31-10-2013 1:08pm

Best of luck to everyone doing the tests,going to do mine now

sureitsgrand · 31-10-2013 1:15pm

Let us know how you get on!

Best of luck

salmon1 · 31-10-2013 4:31pm

its wasnt to bad,a few tricky bits that make ya question yourself if you got it right but went better then i thought

sureitsgrand · 31-10-2013 5:33pm

Did you go for speed or accuracy?

I mean obviously you wanted to be as accurate as possible! But did you linger on questions and double and triple check them before you moved on. Or did you give it the once over and move on?

I'm unsure as to whether to use up all the time allowed or try and go for a quicker pace...

salmon1 · 31-10-2013 6:07pm

sureitsgrand wrote: »

Did you go for speed or accuracy?

I mean obviously you wanted to be as accurate as possible! But did you linger on questions and double and triple check them before you moved on. Or did you give it the once over and move on?

I'm unsure as to whether to use up all the time allowed or try and go for a quicker pace...

I mixed it up a bit,for a few questions i nearly ran out of time so had to rush a few answers but for others i had a few seconds to spare,don't worry its not too bad at all just relax and you'll be fine

saltyjack silverblade · 31-10-2013 6:14pm

I hate verbal reasoning tests with a complete passion but this wasn't too bad. I focused on giving each question an equal amount of time before answering. For the abstract, if I still didn't now the answer I just guessed. If you find yourself running out of time my suggestion would be to just guess the answer.
I think I was a lot more stressed in my head about this exam than I needed to be. It was fine and not overly complicated. Glad it is out of the way now! I wonder if Junior Diplomat is an acceptable Halloween costume?

The_Conductor · 31-10-2013 6:16pm

saltyjack silverblade wrote: »

I wonder if Junior Diplomat is an acceptable Halloween costume?

A-la a vampire costume- or a zombie costume

IS_a_Class · 31-10-2013 10:54pm

I thought both were simple compared to other such tests I've had to take, verbal reasoning was a piece of piss, and the abstract wasn't so bad. With 1700 people applying, i would have thought they would have a more difficult test. Later in the day I did an aptitude test for IBM and it was astoundingly difficult in comparison.

Dubbug · 01-11-2013 8:02am

This is a job for someone who can afford the paltry salary.

The_Conductor · 01-11-2013 8:10am

Dubbug wrote: »

This is a job for someone who can afford the paltry salary.

True- but if you're posted abroad (after your 3 years here) its probably tax free?

sureitsgrand · 01-11-2013 11:36am

Dubbug wrote: »

This is a job for someone who can afford the paltry salary.

It's an awful salary, no doubt about it. Especially as it is such a highly pressurised job where a lot of sacrifices have to be made.....It's also a good 6 grand less than the last intake started on. Sign of the times I suppose.

However, as I have limited 'real' responsibilities and am not tied down, I'm hoping the crap money actually works in my favour - in that a lot of good candidates might have decided against it for that reason!

The_Conductor · 01-11-2013 11:52am

sureitsgrand wrote: »

It's an awful salary, no doubt about it. Especially as it is such a highly pressurised job where a lot of sacrifices have to be made.....It's also a good 6 grand less than the last intake started on. Sign of the times I suppose.

However, as I have limited 'real' responsibilities and am not tied down, I'm hoping the crap money actually works in my favour - in that a lot of good candidates might have decided against it for that reason!

I'm guessing a lot of potential candidates haven't even checked out what the salary scale is, to be honest with you. There is a perception out there- sure, its the civil service, the money must be good- nope, it isn't........

saltyjack silverblade · 01-11-2013 12:12pm

Very curious as to what the salary is now......

TheCruiser · 01-11-2013 1:45pm

saltyjack silverblade wrote: »

Very curious as to what the salary is now......

It's 28,900 if memory serves correctly. Allowances kick in once you're posted abroad but even long term, this is not a career in which you make a lot of money.

saltyjack silverblade · 01-11-2013 1:49pm

What! Kind of shocked about that. Thought the salary would be in the 30s at least. I know in this economy etc I shouldn't say it, but I am seriously reconsidering this now.

The_Conductor · 01-11-2013 1:52pm

TheCruiser wrote: »

It's 28,900 if memory serves correctly. Allowances kick in once you're posted abroad but even long term, this is not a career in which you make a lot of money.

Its a 10 point salary scale, commencing @ 29,992 and finishing after LSIs (2) at 52,465 (16 years later).

There seems to be some disagreement as to whether the standard AO scale also applies to 3rd Secretaries or not- the union representing both grades (the PSEU) believes the scales to be the same.

Link here: http://www.pseu.ie/html/payrates.html

StupidLikeAFox · 01-11-2013 3:39pm

I was of the opinion that there are promotion prospects here, and assumed you could jump onto a different scale - how likely is it that you will stay on the same salary scale for 10 years?

TheCruiser · 01-11-2013 4:13pm

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

I was of the opinion that there are promotion prospects here, and assumed you could jump onto a different scale - how likely is it that you will stay on the same salary scale for 10 years?

You're looking at 6 years minimum before you can compete for promotion. As I understand it there have been hardly any promotions to First Secretary for the last few years.

Riskymove · 01-11-2013 5:51pm

TheCruiser wrote: »

You're looking at 6 years minimum before you can compete for promotion.

?

anyone out of probation can compete...ok then liklihood of getting promoted might be less the more inexperienced you are...but you can compete

The_Conductor · 01-11-2013 6:59pm

Riskymove wrote: »

?

anyone out of probation can compete...ok then liklihood of getting promoted might be less the more inexperienced you are...but you can compete

You wouldn't have your 3 PMDS certs?

ezra_pound · 01-11-2013 7:09pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

Its a 10 point salary scale, commencing @ 29,992 and finishing after LSIs (2) at 52,465 (16 years later).

There seems to be some disagreement as to whether the standard AO scale also applies to 3rd Secretaries or not- the union representing both grades (the PSEU) believes the scales to be the same.

Link here: http://www.pseu.ie/html/payrates.html

The AO and Junior Dip scales are identical. The scales are also 10% higher for anyone who was a civil servant before 2010 and who has not broken service at time of appointment so the scale I'm looking at is 10% higher than the one mentioned.

In fairness it starts off low but increases quickly (c. 8% per annum) so it' not bad. Also if you're abroad you get tax free living, a rental allowance and other perks (plus possibly rental income from your ppr at home while renting in cheaper country (fair assumption for first assignment)).

ezra_pound · 01-11-2013 8:51pm

Riskymove wrote: »

?

anyone out of probation can compete...ok then liklihood of getting promoted might be less the more inexperienced you are...but you can compete

For internal promotion, a civil servant should be in their grade for two years. Traditionally the probationary period was also two years however more recently it is more usually one year. Therefore I suspect that probation will be for one year, followed by a second year where the emplyee is not eligible for internal promotion. I don't know how many promotions there will be in the short term, however the fact that 40 junior dips are needed is a positive indicator that there will be vacancies to be filled with expected retirements etc.

Edit: I just checked it out and now ALL new entrant probationary periods are for one year so it's definitely one year provation followed by one year ineligible for promotion.

The_Conductor · 01-11-2013 8:54pm

Plus it would also be subject to multiple PMDS certs- and a rolling sick leave record? The fact that its a rolling record is tough- if you're out sick for a protracted period of time- its only cleared after 3 or 4 years.

I think I have to have a gawk at codpearsanra- haven't been there in a while.

ezra_pound · 01-11-2013 9:01pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

Plus it would also be subject to multiple PMDS certs

What do you mean?

Do you mean that you could be disqualified for being one of the 0.1% of civil servants not getting a high enough pmds grade to be eligible for promotion? Yes, being one of the notorious 30 (out of 30,000) is not something I'd be too worried about even if you get the job!

ezra_pound · 01-11-2013 9:03pm

In fairness I find it a bit odd that prospective civil servants are concerned about the Dickensian Sick Leave regime. It's three months every four years full paid certified sick leave.

TheCruiser · 02-11-2013 2:53pm

So, formally you're eligible for promotion once you exit probation but does anyone know any third sec who has been promoted after the first year or two? By that time, you wouldn't have even started your first overseas posting. As I understood it, you're expected to start with a stint at home (2-3 years), your first posting abroad (3-4 years) and only then are you looking at being seriously considered for promotion.

That said, 40 new appointments, a heap of retirements, and a large cohort of older 3rd and 1st secs impatient for promotion: it's a lot of change, who knows what that will mean for career trajectories...

ezra_pound · 02-11-2013 4:27pm

TheCruiser wrote: »

So, formally you're eligible for promotion once you exit probation but does anyone know any third sec who has been promoted after the first year or two? By that time, you wouldn't have even started your first overseas posting. As I understood it, you're expected to start with a stint at home (2-3 years), your first posting abroad (3-4 years) and only then are you looking at being seriously considered for promotion.

That said, 40 new appointments, a heap of retirements, and a large cohort of older 3rd and 1st secs impatient for promotion: it's a lot of change, who knows what that will mean for career trajectories...

Hard to say but just to clarify, you cannot be promoted for a further year after promotion.

JUDE2013 · 02-11-2013 4:58pm

Just did the tests now. Abstract went well (I think; you can't really know). I could have paced the verbal a little better, but was happy with it overall.

Just wondering, was anyone else a little taken aback by the personal information requested in the form to be filled out prior to starting the tests? This was my first time applying for a CS job and doing these tests, so it's probably the norm, but I really wasn't expecting to be asked about my cultural identity, religious beliefs and sexuality.

Junior Diplomat/Third Secretary

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