DEAP/BER Issues (Merged)

legs akimbo. · 03-02-2009 5:15pm

Am doing an assessment on a tiny one bed flat thats only heating system is a single electric storage heater and was unsure as to what the temp adjustment factor and heating control category should be, there is only an immersion heater to a 50 litre copper cylinder for water heating so anything I should be looking for to help bring down the rating, can I also use supplementary water heating in summer as yes as this makes a positive impact, any advice much appreciated

Legs

mspark.guinane@ · 04-02-2009 7:01am

legs akimbo. wrote: »

Am doing an assessment on a tiny one bed flat thats only heating system is a single electric storage heater and was unsure as to what the temp adjustment factor and heating control category should be, there is only an immersion heater to a 50 litre copper cylinder for water heating so anything I should be looking for to help bring down the rating, can I also use supplementary water heating in summer as yes as this makes a positive impact, any advice much appreciated

Legs

Personally I don't like storage heating......it's a waste of energy and not very effective unless your trying to keep dampness at bay in an old cottage in the west.!!!
Dimplex Heating use an area sizing chart to determine the output of heat from their storage heaters....you can get that chart from any electrical wholesaler.....The temperature adjustment is also explained....as every room can vary....The hot water tank should definately be lagged....
thermostat upgraded.
Hope this is of some help.....
What type of assessment & for what reason...?
If you can send me more details i may be of more help.?
Slan go foill
MSG:pac:

No6 · 04-02-2009 11:15am

mspark.guinane@ wrote: »

Hi ,may i ask (as i,m new 2 boards) did u get an assessors cert or did u complete one of the courses i have noticed on offer (€2000 +/-) from CER.??
i was considering doing a course.....price is a bit steep....:P

Sorry for the slow response to this, i was away. I got my renewal cert as an assessor because I've been registered for more than a year, I did a course in 2007. I would advise anyone looking at BER not to get into it unless they are prepared to wait a long time to make their money back. The market is over supplied with assessors and there's not enough new or existing work to make a living. If you've doing something else as well it may be worth looking at it.

MEONLY · 04-02-2009 12:20pm

No6 wrote: »

Sorry for the slow response to this, i was away. I got my renewal cert as an assessor because I've been registered for more than a year, I did a course in 2007. I would advise anyone looking at BER not to get into it unless they are prepared to wait a long time to make their money back. The market is over supplied with assessors and there's not enough new or existing work to make a living. If you've doing something else as well it may be worth looking at it.

Would agree 100% with no6.
There may be a small chance if you are operating in our largest cities.

MEONLY · 04-02-2009 12:26pm

legs akimbo. wrote: »

Am doing an assessment on a tiny one bed flat thats only heating system is a single electric storage heater and was unsure as to what the temp adjustment factor and heating control category should be, there is only an immersion heater to a 50 litre copper cylinder for water heating so anything I should be looking for to help bring down the rating, can I also use supplementary water heating in summer as yes as this makes a positive impact, any advice much appreciated

Legs

anything I should be looking for to help bring down the rating

You should record accurately whats their. Whether you get an A-G is irrelevant.

You seeem to have an all electric system. G should'nt be ruled out.

single electric storage heater and was unsure as to what the temp adjustment factor and heating control category should be

Your info is scarce. DEAP table 4 should help here.
Most heat emmitors(not all) have some type of controls e.g. timer/tarriff/stat of some type or other.
You will need to visually establish what type, if any.

there is only an immersion heater to a 50 litre copper cylinder for water

Deap table 2 & 3 should help here. Your info is scarce.

can I also use supplementary water heating in summer

I'm not sure. You seem to have it all year round. What you describe is usually the supplementary system.
Others may have come accross this one.

quentingargan · 05-02-2009 12:44pm

The Sunday Times did an expose on this a while ago. One house, three different ratings. You can read it here

I can see problems down the line. If I sold you a house with a C3 rating, and it turned out ten years later to be a D2, would you be entitled to sue the assessor for the drop in value, and all the extra energy you had used, because he had keyed in a wrong dimension, or a wrong U value?

Maybe that's why SEI insists you have 10 year professional indemnity insurance.

By the way, SEI audits all assessments, but this is probably just their software audit to make sure everything is within certain parameters. They only thoroughly audit some assessments and these require a visit to the inspector to look over the paperwork and calculations etc.

I am among the 1500 or so assessors who qualified but never coughed up the €1000 to register with SEI. I just don't see a career in it at these prices, and if the only way to compete is to take short-cuts, make sure your insurance premiums are paid up!

rjp123 · 05-02-2009 12:49pm

Apologies if this has come up before (I'm sure it has) but can anyone point me to a statetment (if it exists) of how SEI are policing this. I think there is still a huge lack of awareness out there (or just people could not be bothered).
Also is the following hypothetical scenario correct. I get tenants signed up to my new apartment. They don't ask about a BER cert. I don't offer one. 4 months later Inpsector (?) comes to the door looking for Cert for the apartment. It becomes apparent that none exists.
Does the landlord then have 28 days to get one done and issued or are they immediatley fined. If its the latter why would you bother getting one done off your own bat - you'd just try to stay under the radar and hope that you dont get knock on the door (like TV licence). Incidentally I am an assessor and have TV licence!
Cheers

brianmacl · 05-02-2009 1:23pm

rjp123 wrote: »

Apologies if this has come up before (I'm sure it has) but can anyone point me to a statetment (if it exists) of how SEI are policing this. I think there is still a huge lack of awareness out there (or just people could not be bothered).
Also is the following hypothetical scenario correct. I get tenants signed up to my new apartment. They don't ask about a BER cert. I don't offer one. 4 months later Inpsector (?) comes to the door looking for Cert for the apartment. It becomes apparent that none exists.
Does the landlord then have 28 days to get one done and issued or are they immediatley fined. If its the latter why would you bother getting one done off your own bat - you'd just try to stay under the radar and hope that you dont get knock on the door (like TV licence). Incidentally I am an assessor and have TV licence!
Cheers

forward on from this... landlord contests fine in court, "your honour SI666 states that a BER cert is required when offering a dwelling for rent or sale. However I only put out an invitation to treat, then the tenant mede an offer to rent it from me." judge looks at SEI with distain and throws case out. suddenly everyone thinks that BERs are a total waste and SEI loose even more credability

MEONLY · 05-02-2009 1:47pm

rjp123 wrote: »

Apologies if this has come up before (I'm sure it has) but can anyone point me to a statetment (if it exists) of how SEI are policing this. I think there is still a huge lack of awareness out there (or just people could not be bothered).
Also is the following hypothetical scenario correct. I get tenants signed up to my new apartment. They don't ask about a BER cert. I don't offer one. 4 months later Inpsector (?) comes to the door looking for Cert for the apartment. It becomes apparent that none exists.
Does the landlord then have 28 days to get one done and issued or are they immediatley fined. If its the latter why would you bother getting one done off your own bat - you'd just try to stay under the radar and hope that you dont get knock on the door (like TV licence). Incidentally I am an assessor and have TV licence!
Cheers

I believe ths LA's police the system. Did they police the system when your apartment was first advertised? Do they have the resources to police it 4 months down the road? Unfortunately IMO your correct with 28 days etc.
Irish people are experts for inventing an Irish solution to an Irish problem:o

MEONLY · 05-02-2009 2:05pm

quentingargan wrote: »

The Sunday Times did an expose on this a while ago. One house, three different ratings. You can read it here

I can see problems down the line. If I sold you a house with a C3 rating, and it turned out ten years later to be a D2, would you be entitled to sue the assessor for the drop in value, and all the extra energy you had used, because he had keyed in a wrong dimension, or a wrong U value?

Maybe that's why SEI insists you have 10 year professional indemnity insurance.

By the way, SEI audits all assessments, but this is probably just their software audit to make sure everything is within certain parameters. They only thoroughly audit some assessments and these require a visit to the inspector to look over the paperwork and calculations etc.

I am among the 1500 or so assessors who qualified but never coughed up the €1000 to register with SEI. I just don't see a career in it at these prices, and if the only way to compete is to take short-cuts, make sure your insurance premiums are paid up!

IMO the report has done untold damage to the integrity of the system. However it was not the complete system that was investigated, that said enough "mud" has been thrown to do the damage.

Fear of the unknown re insurance can play tricks on ones mind. PL & PI are a gimme for assessors. I sometimes wonder if this fear issue is being driven by people within the insurance business. It could be "riskey" to get out of bed in the morning. See the glass as half full.:D

spacetherm · 08-04-2011 5:57pm

Sorry to be off topic slightly- newbie lack of protocol.
I have a project exercise which basically requires a 130m2 house with a primary energy consumption of 125.91 kwh/m2a (B3) to reduce consumption by at least 6,624 Kwh/m2/a to achieve a consumption of less than 75kwh/m2/a (A3) by using renewable technology alone.

My question is;- without upgrading the fabric of the house to improve heat loss, and not touching the existing 93% eff. oil fired condensing boiler space heating,
can A3 be achieved by installing solar thermal for water heating and PV for lighting, pumps etc.

The dwellings total primary energy consumption is currently 16,380 Kwh/m2/a

Any advise appreciated.
Thanks

sinnerboy · 08-04-2011 6:07pm

DEAP heavily penalizes electricity use. For every kw of energy demanded 2.7 kw is added on to the primary energy demand. So look to reduce electricity use or provide by renewables

sinnerboy · 08-04-2011 6:08pm

you mean

spacetherm wrote: »

The dwellings total primary energy consumption is currently 16,380 Kwh/m2/a

Any advise appreciated.
Thanks

spacetherm · 09-04-2011 12:29pm

Thanks sinnerboy, yes that would be some consumption all right!

So to put my question another way; if I reduce my energy consumption to less than 75 Kwh/m2/yr with renewables, even though the house fabric is leaking heat to B3 levels, I would still achieve an A3 rating?

I would like to see a completed example of the renewable technology input in the DEAP software to achieve A3, whilst the rest of the input in DEAP (without renewables) would have rated B3.

Is a fabric upgrade also essential to achieve A3 in the average house using renewables?

sinnerboy · 09-04-2011 12:48pm

spacetherm wrote: »

I have a project exercise ... to reduce consumption by using renewable technology alone.

Are you being straight here ? why are are you asking questions about fabric heat loss in this context ?

sinnerboy · 09-04-2011 12:51pm

spacetherm wrote: »

I would like to see a completed example of the renewable technology input in the DEAP software to achieve A3, whilst the rest of the input in DEAP (without renewables) would have rated B3.

Is that not the point of your project exercise ? In which case ... off you go and please report back .

sydthebeat · 11-04-2011 5:12pm

sounds like you want someone to do your homework for you?

if you reduce your energy consumption by using renewables, then obviously your fabric heat loss doesnt change. ???

what am i missing here?

creedp · 11-04-2011 5:55pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

sounds like you want someone to do your homework for you?

if you reduce your energy consumption by using renewables, then obviously your fabric heat loss doesnt change. ???

what am i missing here?

I have a related problem in that if I don't include a wood burning stove my heat pump complies in terms of the requirement to produce a min amount of heat demand from renewables. However, if I choose to also have a wood burning stove as a back up now DEAP requires that 10% of my heating demand comes from the stove and as the effciency of the stove is only 78% while the HP is at 387% I fail the renewables requirement. This seems really silly to me as installing a back up heat source that will use a renewable resource results in me failing the renewable requirement!

I understand that DEAP really doesn't like using electricity for home heating but this also confuses me as it seems the SEAI simply love electric powered card or hybrids that can be charged from the grid - Am I easily confused or is this policy rife with inconsistency?

BryanF · 12-04-2011 10:14am

there's plenty more of those anomalies.. this is the software we have so, put up with it or petition you government representative / seai

sydthebeat · 12-04-2011 10:22am

creedp wrote: »

I have a related problem in that if I don't include a wood burning stove my heat pump complies in terms of the requirement to produce a min amount of heat demand from renewables. However, if I choose to also have a wood burning stove as a back up now DEAP requires that 10% of my heating demand comes from the stove and as the effciency of the stove is only 78% while the HP is at 387% I fail the renewables requirement. This seems really silly to me as installing a back up heat source that will use a renewable resource results in me failing the renewable requirement!

I understand that DEAP really doesn't like using electricity for home heating but this also confuses me as it seems the SEAI simply love electric powered card or hybrids that can be charged from the grid - Am I easily confused or is this policy rife with inconsistency?

if you are using a HP you should be meeting the renewable requirement alone with it, unless the house is huge!!
are you including a MHRV system, what air tightness are you inputting, what heating controls etc.

your other point is another debate altogether. its off topic so if you want to continue it start a new thread.

creedp · 12-04-2011 10:49am

sydthebeat wrote: »

if you are using a HP you should be meeting the renewable requirement alone with it, unless the house is huge!!
are you including a MHRV system, what air tightness are you inputting, what heating controls etc.

your other point is another debate altogether. its off topic so if you want to continue it start a new thread.

House is 2,800 sqft and all did a provisional BER which gave a TGD L 2008 renewable result of 14.1 kWh/m2y which was fine. Then I decided to install a MVHR system and overall airtightness system and ends up with 8 kWh/m3y if I uses the SAP Appendix Q data for the MVHR unit. However, if I use the defaul data for the MVHR Unit, i.e. make it less efficient I get a 9.9 kWh/m2y. It is difficult for me to understand why installing something which makes my house more efficient, i.e. reduces the consumption of electricity for the heat pump makes me non-compliant under the SEAI renewable requirements.

Sorry for off-topic rant (thanks BryanF for putting me straight) but I was simply making reference to the glaring inconsistencies in the SEAI policy approach to renewable energy.

sydthebeat · 12-04-2011 10:52am

creedp wrote: »

House is 2,800 sqft and all did a provisional BER which gave a TGD L 2008 renewable result of 14.1 kWh/m2y which was fine. Then I decided to install a MVHR system and overall airtightness system and ends up with 8 kWh/m3y if I uses the SAP Appendix Q data for the MVHR unit. However, if I use the defaul data for the MVHR Unit, i.e. make it less efficient I get a 9.9 kWh/m2y. It is difficult for me to understand why installing something which makes my house more efficient, i.e. reduces the consumption of electricity for the heat pump makes me non-compliant under the SEAI renewable requirements.

Sorry for off-topic rant (thanks BryanF for putting me straight) but I was simply making reference to the glaring inconsistencies in the SEAI policy approach to renewable energy.

never use the default values in DEAP , they are ridiculously bad. use SAP like you did. also for MHRV youd want to be aiming at an airtigtness result of 3 or better for MHRV to be practical.

creedp · 12-04-2011 1:16pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

never use the default values in DEAP , they are ridiculously bad. use SAP like you did. also for MHRV youd want to be aiming at an airtigtness result of 3 or better for MHRV to be practical.

I fully agree with you but the problem I have come up against is that the more efficient my house becomes from a space heating perspective the more difficult it is to be compliant with TGD L 2008. As the point I was obviously unsuccessfully trying to make earlier, the more space heat required from my HP the better I will comply with TGD L 2008.

My BER assessor is looking at all this at present and thinks he has come up with a solution as long as the airtightness result is less that 4.3 which shouldn't be a problem as I am aiming for less than 3 or more to the point my builder is promising less than 3!!

Btw as a matter of interest are you prevented from using DEAP defaults if data for your system is included on Appendix Q? Just in case

sydthebeat · 12-04-2011 1:33pm

creedp wrote: »

I fully agree with you but the problem I have come up against is that the more efficient my house becomes from a space heating perspective the more difficult it is to be compliant with TGD L 2008. As the point I was obviously unsuccessfully trying to make earlier, the more space heat required from my HP the better I will comply with TGD L 2008.

My BER assessor is looking at all this at present and thinks he has come up with a solution as long as the airtightness result is less that 4.3 which shouldn't be a problem as I am aiming for less than 3 or more to the point my builder is promising less than 3!!

Btw as a matter of interest are you prevented from using DEAP defaults if data for your system is included on Appendix Q? Just in case

prevented? no, but why would you not use the better values?

i know what you mean by reducing space demand, however, the renewable requirement in the building regs Part L is worked out on a per sq m of the whole house basis and not on an energy demand basis. there is a slight relationship but not huge. This is a building reg issue, not a DEAP issue.

I have just checked through my old BERs and i have a similar example. a 250 sq m house, heat pump 351% efficiency, HRV system 90% efficiency, air tightnes q50 of 5, decent elemental u values..... and the heat pump has no trouble meeting the renewable requirement on its own.

creedp · 12-04-2011 2:01pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

prevented? no, but why would you not use the better values?

i know what you mean by reducing space demand, however, the renewable requirement in the building regs Part L is worked out on a per sq m of the whole house basis and not on an energy demand basis. there is a slight relationship but not huge. This is a building reg issue, not a DEAP issue.

I have just checked through my old BERs and i have a similar example. a 250 sq m house, heat pump 351% efficiency, HRV system 90% efficiency, air tightnes q50 of 5, decent elemental u values..... and the heat pump has no trouble meeting the renewable requirement on its own.

OK I see what you mean about about Part L requirement being a building reg issue. Excuse me if this is a momentously stupid Q but does that mean that for a given HP efficiency and given elemental u-values. airtightness, ect, the bigger the m2 the better for the perspective of complying with TGD L?

Im interested re your previous eg because my HP comes in a 387%, the HRV is 90%, I've specced airtightness at q50 of 4 subject to test, and my elemental u values are Roof 0.16, Walls 0.18, floors 0.14, windows 2 (although this is the value inserted by assessor, the quoted whole window u value as per window supplier is 1.3 ) for a 260m2 house. One difference
might be that we are installing a wood buring stove as a back up and this takes away 10% of the space heating demand from the more effiicent HP.
I'll take again to my BER assessor re: you eg above and see if there is anything that has been ommitted or inserted incorrectly in assessment.

Thanks very much for advice

sydthebeat · 12-04-2011 5:07pm

you dont need to input any secondary heating system if your main heating system can meet all your energy demands. In your case here, its suits not to have it, so i wouldnt input it.
another point... get him to input the proper window u values, 2.0 is terrible and probably very hard to even get in todays market.

so, if he inputs a proper HRV SAP Q input, proper windows, no secondary system and proper heating controls.... check again to see if it complies. id be surprised if it doesnt.

on your question, which isnt stupid at all, the Part L requirement doesnt suit larger houses as its solely based on the "per sq m" basis. However, DEAP and your rating does discriminate towards larger houses, probably due to the volume to external envelope ratio being higher for smaller dwellings.

creedp · 12-04-2011 5:43pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

you dont need to input any secondary heating system if your main heating system can meet all your energy demands. In your case here, its suits not to have it, so i wouldnt input it.
another point... get him to input the proper window u values, 2.0 is terrible and probably very hard to even get in todays market.

so, if he inputs a proper HRV SAP Q input, proper windows, no secondary system and proper heating controls.... check again to see if it complies. id be surprised if it doesnt.

on your question, which isnt stupid at all, the Part L requirement doesnt suit larger houses as its solely based on the "per sq m" basis. However, DEAP and your rating does discriminate towards larger houses, probably due to the volume to external envelope ratio being higher for smaller dwellings.

Thanks Sydthebeat for your help on this issue. I'll get back to my BER assessor as he seems to be insisting that I have to include the stove for purposes of assessing compliance with Part L. My understanding is that without the stove I will exceed the min requirement for renewables, even with the crappy window u-values which I will also update, which I can assure you is a great relief. Now where is my list of problems so I can start worrying about the next in line!!!

sydthebeat · 12-04-2011 9:50pm

creedp wrote: »

Thanks Sydthebeat for your help on this issue. I'll get back to my BER assessor as he seems to be insisting that I have to include the stove for purposes of assessing compliance with Part L.

i assume he/she will not be the one certifying compliance with building regs??

its handy if your assessor is also your certifier

creedp wrote: »

. Now where is my list of problems so I can start worrying about the next in line!!!

bring them on

creedp · 12-04-2011 10:41pm

Fraid not Sydthebeat! I think I said earlier on somewhere on this forum that my build would form a great foundation for a thread 'what not to do in a build'!! My engineer drew up my plans for planning and then by default my building plans and became my certifier. He never even told me he was a BER assessor and foolishly I never asked. So I sourced an assessor from the SEAI list. Suffuce it to say if there was a recommend approach to take I probably took a different approach. This is why I crop up all over this forum seeking last minute advice and solutions to problems of a chaotic and incoherent nature. All I can say is thankfully something like Boards exists as it as its many helpful and expert contributors have saved me from making even bigger mistakes on many an occasion.

sinnerboy · 13-04-2011 10:26am

sydthebeat wrote: »

you dont need to input any secondary heating system if your main heating system can meet all your energy demands.

Are you sure Syd ?

From the DEAP manual Apendix A1

A secondary heating system is to be specified if: a) the main system is not sufficient in itself to heat the dwelling to the temperatures on which the DEAP is based

which accords with what you say but the sentence goes on to say

or b) fixed secondary heaters are present (e.g. a gas fire, a chimney and hearth capable of supporting an open fire or a solid fuel stove).

Now I know this is a pre build assessment so no "fixed secondary heaters are present" - but one will be in due course if creepd installs one and so one should be included.

sydthebeat · 13-04-2011 10:50am

hummm, i hadnt taken heed of that one. The way i was considering it was incorrect. I was looking at the opposite, as in, when the heating system can meet demand.

Thanks SB,

sorry creepd, my bad.

I can see the dilema now.
I can see how the rating will be dragged down by the wood stove, but how is the renewable requirement dragged down?
What is the energy value without stove, and with stove?
What is the renewable input without stove and with stove?

It must be borderline at best.

creedp · 13-04-2011 11:03am

sydthebeat wrote: »

hummm, i hadnt taken heed of that one. The way i was considering it was incorrect. I was looking at the opposite, as in, when the heating system can meet demand.

Thanks SB,

sorry creepd, my bad.

I can see the dilema now.
I can see how the rating will be dragged down by the wood stove, but how is the renewable requirement dragged down?
What is the energy value without stove, and with stove?
What is the renewable input without stove and with stove?

It must be borderline at best.

Damm and blast - Sinnerboy you've wrecked my day:D

I'll talk to my BER guy and get these figures

Thanks

sinnerboy · 13-04-2011 3:16pm

Sorry creepd I prefer to solve problems not cause them .

Try inputting the stove as a back up water heating installation too , not just for space heating , see how that pans out .

muffler · 13-04-2011 5:09pm

sinnerboy wrote: »

I prefer to solve problems not cause them .

Mighty

Must remember that phrase

creedp · 14-04-2011 10:11am

sinnerboy wrote: »

Sorry creepd I prefer to solve problems not cause them .

Try inputting the stove as a back up water heating installation too , not just for space heating , see how that pans out .

No problem Sinnerboy. I have recoverd from my disappointment;)

One final question on the secondary heating issue - could you clarify if I got the final BER assessment carried without having installed the stove, i.e. leave the fireplace emply and temporarily block the flue, could I then avoid inputting a secondary heat source?

Thanks again

sinnerboy · 14-04-2011 12:33pm

The assessor can only asses what is present ....

creedp · 14-04-2011 3:26pm

sinnerboy wrote: »

The assessor can only asses what is present ....

Gotcha ... I won't be on-site that day:D

Thanks again

spacetherm · 16-04-2011 11:55am

sinnerboy wrote: »

Is that not the point of your project exercise ? In which case ... off you go and please report back .

Attached my initial thoughts on exercise having discounted idea of investing in fabric upgrade rather than bolting on renewables to achieve equivalent of A3.

I haven't costed it yet and I don't think selling back energy to the ESB is the way to make your fortune, but if it answers the question...

hold my beer · 27-07-2021 9:13pm

Hi all,

Is it usual for a Council to request a BER/DEAP at the beginning of a new house build, off plans?

sydthebeat · 27-07-2021 10:15pm

Yes, you have to show you know how to comply with part L

A prelim part L report will do this

LizardKing · 30-04-2024 11:37am

Had a BER done in 2018 after getting some insulation and heating upgrades and it gave a C3 … since then have had double glazing put in, (although some windows still are single glazed in bathroom and kitchen) - Had attic converted and put in retrofit foam insulation to the roof. Had 15 solar panels and battery installed.

Got my updated BER rating today , C3

The BER was provided by company arranged by solar installers , I don;t have direct contact with them.

Can I query this ?, the report states roof very poor and windows Poor .. there is a small extension with flat roof at back of house and i think it may be for this roof and the single glazed windows in that part of the house which is a problem. I would not have expected this to bring the rating to very poor for roof or poor for windows….

would I contact SEAI or should i just accept that after spending nearly 15 k on upgrades the rating stays the same :-/

Thanks

graememk · 30-04-2024 1:01pm

Unless you need a higher ber for something, it's not worth the hassle.

If you don't have a cert for windows/doors/etc you get the default value.

Rooms are done on an individual basis, the single pane windows would hurt them rooms a lot but wouldn't effect the other rooms.

Don't quote me on this bit, but I think things change in the ber ratings every so often when the DEAP document is updated.

Unless your selling or need a specific Ber for grant/mortgage, I'd just forget about it. It doesn't change how your house performs.

LizardKing · 30-04-2024 2:39pm

Thanks for the reply .. I am happy with the insulation and the solar but we had hoped to get a higher BER for a lower mortgage rate….

I'm trying to query some parts to it but it has been published now and will probably be more hassle trying to chase it up tbh.

I'm not sure they took into account the roof foam insulation at all as they recommend adding insulation at ceiling and on slope and in the 2 eaves..but these areas were all retro foam sprayed !!!

THE ALM · 30-04-2024 2:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122081428#Comment_122081428

Do you have specs showing what insulation was applied by the installers and could the BER assessor see the work carried out?

Similarly do you have spec sheets, declaration of conformity, for the windows showing the u-values etc?

graememk · 30-04-2024 5:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122081428#Comment_122081428

At this stage that it's published, it can't be changed, and to do it again is a whole new ber really. Or at least the publishing fee!

Do you have the details of who done it in 2018? They might be able to just add the solar to what they had back then.

The"green" mortgages is one of the few reasons to try and improve it.

LizardKing · 01-05-2024 2:13pm

So I got a call back from Assessor who discussed the report and she gave out lots about the system used and the wording of the report etc. She agreed to amend the report to add some under floor insulation which was not included in original and obviously its not visible. This brought the rating to a C2. not a great victory but better than getting the same BER.

I'm hoping after some small extension works being planned at the end of the year I can replace the single glazed windows and possibly get new lower u rated double glazing in which will perhaps get us to the B range.

sydthebeat · 01-05-2024 2:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122082151#Comment_122082151

Do you have the details of who done it in 2018? They might be able to just add the solar to what they had back then.

Assessors cannot do this, they must carry out a full on site survey for every assessment, especially if its been 6 years since the previous one.

idc · 01-05-2024 6:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085774#Comment_122085774

But at least if it was the same BER assessor they may have stored the specs of everything from before. Like if they have the specification of the windows you installed in 2018 and they are still the same that won't have changed. But a new BER assessor may not have that documentation and the home owner may not either.
Thats the worst part of BER without specifications of everything done a new assessor can just claim can't see it so can't put it in or use default values.

graememk · 01-05-2024 6:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122086601#Comment_122086601

Yeah thats sort of what I was getting at, Sure do a new site survey but the majority of the stuff will be the same. Yes the living room is 5*4m, what a coincidence..

The BER assessor I had was pretty sound, and the rules are if they cant see it, and there is no cert. It doesnt exist, they cant just take your word for it. Yes I may have had a good composite door from Apeer, but no cert, you get default values.

I actually had a "pre ber" survey done before the solar so i'd know id clear the c3 needed for the grant at the time. So when the time came to do the proper one, it was just a matter of adding the solar to it and him to publish it.

DEAP/BER Issues (Merged)

Comments