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Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

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    #542
    prinzeugen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    roadmaster wrote: »
    When the UK scrambles jets it has to scramble a voyager aircraft. If we bought interceptors how would we solve that problem? Or would we restrict the jets to a 100km from shannon

    In some cases. In most Russian intercept scenarios, the tanker is there just incase. Location plays a part also. I recall a recent scramble where a new AirBus on delivery to Mexico via Canada had no comms entering UK airspace.

    Coningsby Typhoons intercepted it over the Bristol Channel and escorted it into Prestwick. On the return trip they got a refuel. Video is on YouTube somewhere.


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    #543
    roadmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,596 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I seen on the air corps Facebook page yesterday they had 2 Pc9s doing a CAP of sorts. They had the fuel tanks on to give them them the legs to stay up longer but did they also have the gun pods on did any one see?


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    #544
    Leonidas BL
    Registered Users Posts: 590 ✭✭✭Leonidas BL


    roadmaster wrote: »
    I seen on the air corps Facebook page yesterday they had 2 Pc9s doing a CAP of sorts. They had the fuel tanks on to give them them the legs to stay up longer but did they also have the gun pods on did any one see?

    Couldn't see any. Sure could they keep up with Air force 1 anyway??


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    #545
    roadmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,596 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Leonidas BL wrote: »
    Couldn't see any. Sure could they keep up with Air force 1 anyway??

    I presume they where working around dunbeg and would be directed to intercept light aircraft etc by Shannon or the army mobile radar?


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    #546
    Leonidas BL
    Registered Users Posts: 590 ✭✭✭Leonidas BL


    roadmaster wrote: »
    I presume they where working around dunbeg and would be directed to intercept light aircraft etc by Shannon or the army mobile radar?

    That'd be the height of it i'd say. Might frighten away the seagulls around Shannon too. Be awful if Air Force 1 ingested any.


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    #547
    knipex
    Registered Users Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭knipex


    ljy9fn7qwhgasx wrote: »
    Kinda holed your own canoe with that one.

    Even so, in a country with over 3,000 homeless children one will have a difficult time persuading people to spend tens or hundreds of millions on jets to "defend our own airpsace" against something.

    Was there not a story recently about how many times the RAF were deployed to defend Irish airspace ??

    Around the time the Russian bombers flew off the West coast but in our airspace.


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    #548
    roadmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,596 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    knipex wrote: »
    Was there not a story recently about how many times the RAF were deployed to defend Irish airspace ??

    Around the time the Russian bombers flew off the West coast but in our airspace.

    The Russians where only out for a spin not harming anyone. Besides if there was an emergency I don’t thing the RAF would be able to get jets hear in time anyway


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    #549
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    roadmaster wrote: »
    The Russians where only out for a spin not harming anyone.

    more like clever probing, testing, surveying, training and recon . .and to see what they can get away with in EU airspace and where . . and the response or lack of


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    #550
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,869 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Nobelium wrote: »
    more like clever probing, testing, surveying, training and recon . .and to see what they can get away with in EU airspace and where . . and the response or lack of


    Basically the dame thing they and the USAF have been doing to each other (and in the case of the US to China as well) for decades.


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    #551
    cameramonkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,220 ✭✭✭cameramonkey


    Nobelium wrote: »
    more like clever probing, testing, surveying, training and recon . .and to see what they can get away with in EU airspace and where . . and the response or lack of


    What EU airspace were they in?


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    #552
    Leonidas BL
    Registered Users Posts: 590 ✭✭✭Leonidas BL


    cameramonkey wrote: »
    What EU airspace were they in?

    Irish controlled airspace?:confused:


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    #553
    cameramonkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,220 ✭✭✭cameramonkey


    Leonidas BL wrote: »
    Irish controlled airspace?:confused:


    There is a difference between Irish airspace and Irish controlled airspace. The Russian were within their rights to be flying where they were.


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    #554
    prinzeugen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    roadmaster wrote: »
    The Russians where only out for a spin not harming anyone. Besides if there was an emergency I don’t thing the RAF would be able to get jets hear in time anyway

    Not harming anyone??? They don't file flight plans, don't have transponders switched on and refuse to contact ATC. As the transponders are off most civil radars cannot see them. They are a major hazard to civil aviation.

    Thats why the RAF intercept them. So they can identify them and report their position, height, speed etc so ATC can get civil aircraft out the way.

    The RAF could get jets here. 15-20 mins tops.


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    #555
    Leonidas BL
    Registered Users Posts: 590 ✭✭✭Leonidas BL


    cameramonkey wrote: »
    There is a difference between Irish airspace and Irish controlled airspace. The Russian were within their rights to be flying where they were.

    Are they within their right to fly through one of the busiest routs in Europe with the transponder off??


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    #556
    Smiles35
    Registered Users Posts: 1,749 ✭✭✭Smiles35


    prinzeugen wrote: »
    Not harming anyone??? They don't file flight plans, don't have transponders switched on and refuse to contact ATC. As the transponders are off most civil radars cannot see them. They are a major hazard to civil aviation.

    Thats why the RAF intercept them. So they can identify them and report their position, height, speed etc so ATC can get civil aircraft out the way.

    The RAF could get jets here. 15-20 mins tops.

    Could the Russians be using a different transponder system altogether for civil aviation? I think they do. Now being military aircraft they would have a set-up for their own ATC. Would it be as simple as changing a frequency to conform to foreign ATC?


    That would go some way to explain that downing of a Dutch civil airliner over Ukraine. Their ground units don't have the capability of picking up non-Russian civilian aircraft.


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    #557
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    http://https://www.janes.com/article/89974/argentina-selects-korean-fa-50-fighter

    Argentina has selected the FA50 as its interim fighter.


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    #558
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Smiles35 wrote: »
    Could the Russians be using a different transponder system altogether for civil aviation? I think they do. Now being military aircraft they would have a set-up for their own ATC. Would it be as simple as changing a frequency to conform to foreign ATC?


    That would go some way to explain that downing of a Dutch civil airliner over Ukraine. Their ground units don't have the capability of picking up non-Russian civilian aircraft.

    Hang on, I thought the Russians said the Ukrainians ground forces did it, then it was shot down by a plane, now they didn't have the correct type of transponder,
    Even though they would have been communicating with the air traffic control, and carrying the requested equipment at every stage of the flight path..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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    #559
    cameramonkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,220 ✭✭✭cameramonkey


    Leonidas BL wrote: »
    Are they within their right to fly through one of the busiest routs in Europe with the transponder off??


    Yes they are.


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    #560
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,869 ✭✭✭sparky42


    CrankyHaus wrote: »
    http://https://www.janes.com/article/89974/argentina-selects-korean-fa-50-fighter

    Argentina has selected the FA50 as its interim fighter.


    Given past history of Argentina trying to buy aircraft I wouldn't hold my breath on this tbh.


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    #561
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,475 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    sparky42 wrote: »
    Given past history of Argentina trying to buy aircraft I wouldn't hold my breath on this tbh.

    Along with what they've been looking at.
    You don't go bargain basement shopping and add the Gripen to the list just in case.

    The Argentines have mainly been looking at 2nd hand or time expired airframes as parts sources to remanufacture there legacy Dassault airframes.
    Kfir and Mirage F1's have been actively considered and pursued by them FFS.
    Their pursuit of equipment that actually is flyable is getting quite desperate.


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    #562
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    sparky42 wrote: »
    Given past history of Argentina trying to buy aircraft I wouldn't hold my breath on this tbh.

    It makes sense as a bare minimum purchase, to go with the Super Etendard Modernise the French offloaded on them for buttons.

    Their existing planes are ancient and knackered and they need to buy something to retain a minimal level of capability and experience.

    How they get on with them could highlight how viable the FA 50 is for running an airforce on the cheap.


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    #563
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,869 ✭✭✭sparky42


    CrankyHaus wrote: »
    It makes sense as a bare minimum purchase, to go with the Super Etendard Modernise the French offloaded on them for buttons.

    Their existing planes are ancient and knackered and they need to buy something to retain a minimal level of capability and experience.

    How they get on with them could highlight how viable the FA 50 is for running an airforce on the cheap.


    I think at this stage when you have Destroyers sinking at the pier side it's more for optics, like the plan to buy second hand subs from Brazil (which all need huge investment to be made operational). The Argentinean budget just isn't enough. What will be more interesting is how the UK reacts, time after time they've been doing backroom deals/pressures to keep modern fighters from Argentina, will they do so again?


    Does the FA 50 have any parts that are UK design/built?


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    #564
    newcavanman
    Registered Users Posts: 822 ✭✭✭newcavanman


    The right thing for us would be to have purchased , say 18 of the F-16A MLU which the dutch and belgians sold off 8-10 years ago . Most of these aircraft had been rebuilt and updated to match Block 40 F-16s . However, it was never going to be a runner with the way defence is run in this country. The practical solution is to come to an arrangement, ideally with the RAF , but politically would have to be the French. We provide a base, Shannon, Knock or similar with a proper QRA set up, and a proper military radar. The french provide modern fighters, probably 4-6 required to be deployed . we have some aer corp pilots seconded to the french air force, trained up to full fast jet capability, through the french or nato training systems. All the irish pilots could be integrated with the french fast jet pilot pool so at any given time , the pilots deployed here would be from either background . we provide the ground crew and the facilities and have equal say with the french on the standard operating procedures for the aircraft operating from ireland
    i think the french would go for it, just to annoy the UKif nothing else we would get proper air defence at the minimum cost possible .
    If this were ever to ass, of course, most of us would probably be regularly missing froim work as we fecked off to spend the day on the perimeter road of wherever they were based


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    #565
    Stovepipe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    The Argentinians recently got a delivery of retired Super Etendards from the French.


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    #566
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Stovepipe wrote: »
    The Argentinians recently got a delivery of retired Super Etendards from the French.

    I thought they were grounded?

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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    #567
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,475 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Markcheese wrote: »
    I thought they were grounded?

    They were bought to augment what they had, 5 obsolete airframes won't do much imo.

    The best of the airframes will be pooled with the existing Argie airframes a cannibalisation will give them some capacity to keep a credible etendard/Exocet force.


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    #568
    Stovepipe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    The French airframes were routinely upgraded in service since the days of the Falklands war and would be a generation ahead of the existing Argentinian airframes, in terms of flight and weapons electronics, the radar's abilities and it's ability to use modern missiles. So, as banie said, they would act as the core of a rebuilt fleet.


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    #569
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/fighter-variant-of-m-346-secures-launch-deal-460019/

    First sale of M346 FA. 6 sold to an undisclosed customer.


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    #570
    Leonidas BL
    Registered Users Posts: 590 ✭✭✭Leonidas BL


    CrankyHaus wrote: »
    https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/fighter-variant-of-m-346-secures-launch-deal-460019/

    First sale of M346 FA. 6 sold to an undisclosed customer.

    Must be the Air Corps :D


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    #571
    jonnybigwallet
    Registered Users Posts: 1,073 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    I see that the Brazilian Air force have taken delivery of their first KC 390 troop lifter. We could do with a couple of them!


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