Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122014184#Comment_122014184

Because Dublin has capacity issues and other well publicised restrictions, which may become prohibitive, especially to the operation of various jets at odd hours.

The DAA also have an ambitious development plan which intends to make even more intensive use of an already congested airfield. There is not likely to be suitable, secure space to build an Air Corps station, even a small one, unless the State can gain control of the contentious McEvaddy lands to the west of the existing airfield.

source

Again for the pie in the sky airbase replacement, SNN is the only choice, West coast for covering the EEZ without crossing the country, 3km runway and about 200 acres beside the Lufthansa technik building.

Also the airport is quiet enough that military ops won't have a major impact on the day to day ops of the airport.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122018444#Comment_122018444

and cheaper costs of living for the AC personnel and their families, “investment in the West”, supporting the airports viability…

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122018444#Comment_122018444

100% agree.

But the Air Corps will still need a secure, reliable and permanently manned location in or near Dublin. Too many services; military, ministerial, medical and environmental all depend on it.

bear1

At this stage, it’s hard to envisage the country ever getting jets considering our navy is beyond stretched. Such a shame, how we went from investing heavily in the 80s to just giving them crumbs now

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122019537#Comment_122019537

investing heavily? That’s a bit of an exaggeration tbh, they got crumbs then just as they do now.

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122019537#Comment_122019537

Lets do the quick maths on the 1980s investment in the NS.

As a prelude, in the 1970s, the Naval service built 4 OPVs in the local dockyard, and purchased 3 mothballed RN Minesweepers (of Mahogany construction, smaller than the New IPVs people like to complain about) built 20 years previously.

(F)P20 L.E. Deirdre cost about €5m at the time. It's difficult to establish how much it cost in total, as PQs were very evasive at the time.

P21, P22 and P23 cost a total of £21m in 1980, the equivalent of €110m in today's money, for 3 lightly armed, 1000 tonne ships.

P31 cost £25m in 1984, equal to €80m in todays money.

P41 and P42 together cost in 1984 GB£7.4m each when built. €25m in todays money. We paid €22m 5 years later for both ships.

Even by todays calculation, building an entire fleet of 7 ships over a 20 year period for a total of €217m is not investing heavily. It is token, at best.

roadmaster

€360 million for 24 2nd Hand F16s and weapon systems. Not to bad of a price.

https://english.elpais.com/international/2024-04-16/argentina-reinforces-ties-with-the-us-with-purchase-of-used-f-16s.html?outputType=amp

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122026094#Comment_122026094

That and sending the right wing British press into a frenzy, which is priceless.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027152#Comment_122027152

not just the Press, some of the comments sections in the usual defence related sites are bloody insane, they have lost their minds.

Markcheese

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027452#Comment_122027452

Well , the british have successfully stymied Argentinian air force purchases for 40 odd years , ( not surprisingly) , i'd imagine it was the prospect of them buying chinese that brike that log jam -

Markcheese

What sort of combat radius would those f16s have ? I assume they'd be no match for the Eurofighters the brits have stationed there ,

-if the Argentinians can be bothered with that sort of messing

jonnybigwallet

Only a handful of Typhoons there. Not expecting any fireworks though.

purplepanda

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122026094#Comment_122026094

Would the USA even consider giving the same deal to Ireland? I doubt it very much somehow. My guess is that Ireland would have to pay 4 or 5 times as much for the same equipment.

I doubt if Argentina has Russian bombers traveling close by its airspace, nor Russian Navy menacing it's undersea communications cables either?

I would have thought that Ukraine needs these jets more than Argentina? Let's hope the Danes have more F16's earmarked for Ukraine.

Dohvolle

Argentina will be using them up north to keep an eye on drug running aircraft coming out of the Jungles.

Markcheese

It was denmark that sold them not the US ,

Although the US obviously was on board with it , otherwise the deal wouldnt have gone ahead ..

thomil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122028572#Comment_122028572

Currently, the RDAF has 41 F-16s in its inventory, 30 single-seaters and 11 double-seaters. Given that the country so far only has 4 out of its total order of 27 F-35s in the country, I think it'll be a while before Argentina gets their aircraft. Looks like Ukraine got first dibs on them, especially given ongoing Ukrainian pilot training at Skydstrup.

Silvera

Gripen - 1st choice

FA-50 - 2nd choice

...if it ever actually happens 😕

Dohvolle

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2024/04/18/state-argues-court-should-not-allow-senators-challenge-to-alleged-secret-deal-with-raf/

Using one of my 2 free articles…

State argues court should not allow Senator’s challenge to alleged secret deal with RAF

Gerard Craughwell claims any arrangement allowing RAF interception in Irish airspace is unlawful and unconstitutional unless approved by Dáil and put to a referendum

Expand

The case concerns an alleged agreement between Ireland and Britain allowing the RAF to 'intercept' any aircraft that poses a threat in Irish airspace. Photograph: Jane Barlow/PA Wire

Thu Apr 18 2024 - 19:48

A High Court challenge to an alleged secret arrangement allowing the British Royal Air Force (RAF) to intercept any aircraft posing a threat in Irish airspace does not meet the high threshold for bringing such cases, a judge has heard.

Catherine Donnelly SC, for the Government, Ireland and the Attorney General, has asked Mr Justice Brian Cregan to rule a case brought by Independent Senator Gerard Craughwell does not meet the standards required for a challenge of this nature.

Should the State defendants succeed in winning that argument, then Mr Craughwell’s case will fall. The judge is hearing arguments on whether the court can hear the challenge at all.

The case concerns an alleged agreement between Ireland and Britain allowing the RAF to “intercept” any aircraft that poses a threat in Irish airspace.

[Snipped by MOD: It's still behind a wall, even if partially opened twice a day. Let's avoid getting Boards into copyright problems…]

Larbre34

Craughwell's case needs to be dismissed.

You cannot parse defence policy and State secrets in open Court for reasons of the ego trip of one man.

He may say its in the national interest, but that is best served by secrecy on the intricacies.

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122038640#Comment_122038640

Based on what is reported, his entire assertion seems to be based on one utterance from Former Taoiseach (but no time defence minister) Bertie Ahern.

There is no "smoking gun".

We must remember the question comes from a time when RAF (And RN) aircraft regularly carried out SAR and Top cover in Irish Airspace, and I'm sure there was an MOU for this.

That does not however mean that we can ring 999 and expect the RN to fly into Irish Airspace to scare off russian bombers.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122039252#Comment_122039252

We as a nation do not deserve to be rescued if anything ever did happen.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122039318#Comment_122039318

Irrespective of non-alignment, we certainly have no excuse not to have a robust homeland defence. Not anymore.

mupper2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122040059#Comment_122040059

I honestly think the gov/country doesn't get how bad the World is going to get..

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122040096#Comment_122040096

They lack life and world experience. The Current Taoiseach has been involved in politics since he was in secondary school. He has not lived life outside his bubble. The previous one at least had a short stint as a conservative in medicine before he was enlightened, but still relied on other to make decisions, based on consensus. Not good enough.

Markcheese

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122039318#Comment_122039318

Rescues tend not to happen because of deservedness or virtue ...

It tends to be national interests that decide wether the cavalry cone riding over the hill