The Dublin skyline is ugly, why are we not building high rise for modern city?

wakka12 · 11-01-2020 8:48pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

The state should CPO very low density very central housing and build on it.

The single storey cottages beside the Mater. The single storey cottages is Stoneybatter and Donnybrook. The single storey cottages in Rathmines . Etc.

Stoneybatter is one of the highest density residential areas in the entire country. Zero chance of it being CPO'd

L1011 · 11-01-2020 10:05pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

The state should CPO very low density very central housing and build on it.

The single storey cottages beside the Mater. The single storey cottages is Stoneybatter and Donnybrook. The single storey cottages in Rathmines . Etc.

There are low-rise apartment blocks with lower density than many of the older single floor housing areas due to large parking/yards/common areas and larger flats. Obviously not the Zoe Shoeboxes.

The 3 floor Gregory Deal developments are also surprisingly high density.

You'd be quite surprised what would go first if targeting low density housing.

marieholmfan · 13-01-2020 11:38am

L1011 wrote: »

There are low-rise apartment blocks with lower density than many of the older single floor housing areas due to large parking/yards/common areas and larger flats. Obviously not the Zoe Shoeboxes.

The 3 floor Gregory Deal developments are also surprisingly high density.

You'd be quite surprised what would go first if targeting low density housing.

Enormous six bedroom houses with one person living in them all around Ballsbridge and Sandymount.

The low density apartment blocks would be ideal. Build up up up. Give the current owners a better bigger flat in the new development and €500,000 - Bob's your uncle.

Me and you L1 011 we should be benevolent dictators. (Well you'd be benevolent).

Thelonious Monk · 16-01-2020 3:05pm

https://www.thejournal.ie/an-taisce-appeal-apollo-house-building-4967958-Jan2020/

Lol

PopePalpatine · 19-01-2020 11:55pm

I'd honestly consider voting for ANYBODY who promised to shut down those pompous **** as their first act of government. They probably blame "high"-rises for their/their other half's erectile dysfunction.

L1011 · 20-01-2020 12:39pm

There's a purpose for an organisation of their type; but their automatic role in planning is ridiculous and should be removed so they can actually refocus on being a National Trust as they were meant to be.

Passenger · 05-02-2020 9:44am

Chartered Land plans Dublin’s tallest tower on Parkgate Street

Tusky · 05-02-2020 4:17pm

Passenger wrote: »

Chartered Land plans Dublin’s tallest tower on Parkgate Street

Another image attached.

Marcusm · 05-02-2020 4:32pm

Funnily enough I think that is one of the more incongruous locations to put a 29 storey building in Dublin. It is almost an Island site and surrounded by very low rise buildings with next to no expectation that anything would be built up around it - Collins Barracks, Heuston stations (includingnpatheays) and the recently rebuilt Guinness brewery - would mean that there is little or no prospect of adjacent buildings to soften the sheer size. That being said, Heuston is a transport hub and it makes sense to densify at that location.

Tusky · 05-02-2020 4:45pm

Marcusm wrote: »

Funnily enough I think that is one of the more incongruous locations to put a 29 storey building in Dublin. It is almost an Island site and surrounded by very low rise buildings with next to no expectation that anything would be built up around it - Collins Barracks, Heuston stations (includingnpatheays) and the recently rebuilt Guinness brewery - would mean that there is little or no prospect of adjacent buildings to soften the sheer size. That being said, Heuston is a transport hub and it makes sense to densify at that location.

Isn't there a site directly opposite that could be developed? Currently a car showroom but was sold last year I believe. The whole area has a lot of untapped potential. Needs a bit of development I reckon.

riclad · 05-02-2020 5:35pm

I think the raised the height limits in the last year ,
so in the future we might have high rise apartments all over dublin.
this means sites have gone up in value in dublin.
they reduced the no of parking spaces, needed to build in a new apartment
block.
high density apartments in the city are good for the environment,
they cut down on traffic jams .
whether they look good is another question.
The skyline looks good or bad depending on where you are located ,
what direction you look in.

L1011 · 05-02-2020 5:41pm

Marcusm wrote: »

Funnily enough I think that is one of the more incongruous locations to put a 29 storey building in Dublin. It is almost an Island site and surrounded by very low rise buildings with next to no expectation that anything would be built up around it - Collins Barracks, Heuston stations (includingnpatheays) and the recently rebuilt Guinness brewery - would mean that there is little or no prospect of adjacent buildings to soften the sheer size. That being said, Heuston is a transport hub and it makes sense to densify at that location.

A substantial portion of Heuston carpark/yard and Conyngham Road bus garage will both likely be sold for development by the end of the decade.

wakka12 · 05-02-2020 6:01pm

Marcusm wrote: »

Funnily enough I think that is one of the more incongruous locations to put a 29 storey building in Dublin. It is almost an Island site and surrounded by very low rise buildings with next to no expectation that anything would be built up around it - Collins Barracks, Heuston stations (includingnpatheays) and the recently rebuilt Guinness brewery - would mean that there is little or no prospect of adjacent buildings to soften the sheer size. That being said, Heuston is a transport hub and it makes sense to densify at that location.

Actually the long term plan involves a lot more building in this area. CIE are considering selling a huge plot of land behind hueston station by the river, and the longterm development plan for the brewery is to have buildings along the waterfront section separate from the main brewery, could be a long time before guinness sell that land though. Will be ten years before the building is done on the land they just sold for development south of thomas street

Marcusm · 06-02-2020 12:22am

wakka12 wrote: »

Actually the long term plan involves a lot more building in this area. CIE are considering selling a huge plot of land behind hueston station by the river, and the longterm development plan for the brewery is to have buildings along the waterfront section separate from the main brewery, could be a long time before guinness sell that land though. Will be ten years before the building is done on the land they just sold for development south of thomas street

Those would be welcome developments too but with at least 50m or more from this proposed 29 storey building to anything more than 4-6 stories, I think I will continue to think of it as unsuited. Perhaps if the design was more appealing, I might be persuaded. A glass curtain wall with its reflective properties might reduce its visual impact from a distance. The mock up cited is fairly uninspiring but it is not something I would dream of objecting to formally. I guess I think it is functional rather than aspirational. Given its proposed status as the city’s tallest and given its location, one could hope (forlornly) for something more.

Marcusm · 06-02-2020 12:24am

Tusky wrote: »

Isn't there a site directly opposite that could be developed? Currently a car showroom but was sold last year I believe. The whole area has a lot of untapped potential. Needs a bit of development I reckon.

The carshowroom itself is a fairly small site. I doubt it will see anything larger than the Ashling.

JupiterKid · 06-02-2020 2:36am

The area around Heuston Station was designated a zone of potential high rise development in the early 2000s when a high rise/increased density study was commissioned by Dublin City Council and elements of that study’s recommendations were incorporated into the City Development Plan. It makes sense as it is a transportation hub.

I do think that the proposed tower block for the former Hickeys Fabrics warehouse site on Parkgate St is rather poor in its exterior appearance.

riclad · 06-02-2020 2:35pm

We need more high density building,s ,high rise apartments,
builders apply for planning permission, the appearance of a building is subjective .
Is there criteria for refusing planning permission because a building is ugly, plain ,or too large ,out of scale in relation to the surrounding buildings ?
trends in style and design of buildings change over time as technology changes .
there are large buildings that look attractive but it is more expensive to build and design them than a standard apartment building .
could someone just build a large apartment block on o,connell st thats 6 storeys high?

FunkyDa2 · 06-02-2020 2:54pm

L1011 wrote: »

A substantial portion of Heuston carpark/yard and Conyngham Road bus garage will both likely be sold for development by the end of the decade.

Here's Barcelona Sants train station, complete with a hotel(and very nice it is, too) built directly over the train lines...

10000maniacs · 06-02-2020 3:03pm

con___manx1 wrote: »

sky scrapers are over rated. when you see them everyday going to work you get sick of the sight of them. I did anyway when I lived in a high rise city. Dublin needs to sort out its public transport before we
start worrying about skyscrapers.

Yeah, Venezuela's capital has loads of skyscrapers.
Maybe that why inflation levels are at 15000%

07-02-2020 1:04pm

wakka12 wrote: »

Yep, but could always start demolishing and densifying a few of the hideous low rise slabs that went up in the 90's and early 00's around the IFSC

I propose this stunner as tribute
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3491004,-6.2409963,3a,75y,226.22h,103.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLH-7qpVvHmvvytiUzBUvYw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

I used to work in that building. Roasting hot in summer to the extent they brought in huge industrial scale portable air conditioners or they would have to start sending people home. Baltic cold in the winter, especially the weekends (which I used to work)

The company I worked for were headquartered on floors 14-22 in a Skyscraper on Wall Street in New York. Meanwhile my office was on floor 2. Just a little bit embarrassing if people came to visit.

wakka12 · 07-02-2020 2:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I used to work in that building. Roasting hot in summer to the extent they brought in huge industrial scale portable air conditioners or they would have to start sending people home. Baltic cold in the winter, especially the weekends (which I used to work)

The company I worked for were headquartered on floors 14-22 in a Skyscraper on Wall Street in New York. Meanwhile my office was on floor 2. Just a little bit embarrassing if people came to visit.

So not only hideous but completely dysfunctional! And guess who the architects are, Scott Talon Walker, apparently Irelands most progressive modernist architecture firm!

Thelonious Monk · 07-02-2020 3:50pm

Is that not Hubspot?

07-02-2020 4:31pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Is that not Hubspot?

HubSpot are floors 2,3 and 4 with the HubSpot Cafe on the ground floor.

Come to think of it I was on the 1st floor.

kravmaga · 08-02-2020 8:46pm

Connolly Quarter has just been given planning permission by DCC.

23 Storey tower , 2 office buildings, retail and 741 apartments

http://www.ballymoregroup.com/project/detail/connolly-quarteroup.com/project/detail/connolly-quarter

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/ballymore-secures-green-light-for-23-storey-tower-at-connolly-station-1.4165270

https://www.ballymoregroup.com/project/detail/connolly-quarter

Kewreeuss · 08-02-2020 8:58pm

God, not another "Quarter"'
Has no one any imagination?
I still haven't digested 'Central Park'.
I was scandalised when I thought they had renamed Stephen's Green:D

I like high-rise, and would love to see some beautiful creative designs.

08-02-2020 9:22pm

Kewreeuss wrote: »

God, not another "Quarter"'
Has no one any imagination?
I still haven't digested 'Central Park'.
I was scandalised when I thought they had renamed Stephen's Green:D

I like high-rise, and would love to see some beautiful creative designs.

I pass Central Park twice a day. 12 kilometres from the centre of the city. And there's no park.

The stillorgan luas stop is a decent 15 minute walk from Stillorgan village but 300 metres from the sandyford luas stop.

All aspects of our infrastructure are completely nonsensical

kravmaga · 08-02-2020 10:02pm

Hal3000 wrote: »

Had relatives over a while back, they commented on how ugly most of Dublin city was. In particular the Northside, add to that the junkies and homeless that accosted us on our way home, Dublin city centre is truly a hole.

South inner city is no better than North Inner city, drove through D8., Cork street today, lots of derelict sites on both sides of the street, seen a few beggars ,women wearing Pj's going into the Lidl store also, not a pretty site. Homelessness is not just a North South divide, its a general social issue in the entire city of Dublin.

Relatives over from where? The mainland is it? Lol

Naked Lepper · 10-02-2020 1:51pm

kravmaga wrote: »

,women wearing Pj's going into the Lidl store also, not a pretty site.

beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

kravmaga · 10-02-2020 9:11pm

Chartered Land have planning permission in for the former Hickeys Site beside Heuston Railway Station, Dublin 8.

See links, 29 storey tower, looks great, hope is gets permission.

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=2199976

https://parkgatestreetshd.ie/

Marcusm · 10-02-2020 11:18pm

Still not a plan of the design; hilarious how the design study references the Uffizi in Florence as an inspiration for the retention of the existing arch. Very random comparison. Disappointed that it seems to be clad in boring cream/yellow stone which presumably has to be imported. It’s not a feature of our landscape (unlike say sandstone in Bath which it apes). Would prefer to see some usage of domestic limestone. Also still think the facade is too disjointed. There are only a limited number of balconies but they are “busy”. On reflection, I think this needs a much higher standard, perhaps even some high-tech architecture with exposed girders/beams interspersed with glass. This could reflect the industrial uses of the surrounding land rather than the bland/pastiche building which is proposed. This is the sort of building to which Prince Charles would not object due to sheer blandness.

Kewreeuss · 11-02-2020 8:20pm

It's borr-rring.:D

Lord Fairlord · 16-02-2020 9:57pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Move Dublin port and build housing

Total waste of space down there

The problem is that there is a demand to bring goods directly to major population centres, in this case, as explained in someone else's post, the majority of what is coming in to Dublin port is for within the M50.

Something like Harry Crosbie's land reclamation plan is something that we should go for IMO. The Dutch can do it and we need to think long term. The Environmentalists might not like it but people need to come first.

kravmaga · 18-02-2020 8:14pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

May as well stick this here:

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/sean-mulryan-plans-dublin-s-tallest-tower-at-connolly-station-1.4051295?mode=amp

Planning for 23 story apartment submitted as part of Connolly Quarter. The site of Apollo House which has planning for 11 story office block, application submitted to add 10 floor apartment block on top.

https://theconnollyquartershd1.ie/

Idbatterim · 19-02-2020 12:20am

Lord Fairlord wrote: »

The problem is that there is a demand to bring goods directly to major population centres, in this case, as explained in someone else's post, the majority of what is coming in to Dublin port is for within the M50.

Something like Harry Crosbie's land reclamation plan is something that we should go for IMO. The Dutch can do it and we need to think long term. The Environmentalists might not like it but people need to come first.

will the environmentalists like us putting housing over greenfield, miles from where people want to be and at ten times less density?

Thelonious Monk · 21-02-2020 1:04pm

https://twitter.com/EOBroin/status/1230796922518110209

Idbatterim · 21-02-2020 3:53pm

LOL! SF think this is going to help the housing situation? you would have to start thinking, they dont want to go into government, because never mind the changes that were made to start speeding up the process of supply (which they have) they need to be changed again, to increase minimum densitites etc... Yet he wants to go in the opposite direction, claiming SF want to address housing! L!O!L!

technocrat · 22-02-2020 10:45pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

https://twitter.com/EOBroin/status/1230796922518110209

There you go proof SF are anti housing!

Thelonious Monk · 27-02-2020 12:55pm

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Sextant-skyscraper-in-Cork-gets-go-ahead-521c2336-74a4-4488-878c-318fed9b1dcb-ds

It's funny how they allow this in Cork but Dublin doesn't seems to have the world against it when trying to get high(ish) rise

29-02-2020 4:34pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Sextant-skyscraper-in-Cork-gets-go-ahead-521c2336-74a4-4488-878c-318fed9b1dcb-ds

It's funny how they allow this in Cork but Dublin doesn't seems to have the world against it when trying to get high(ish) rise

Cork will be making a bid to become the real capital(again), based on having decent skyscrapers.

Idbatterim · 29-02-2020 4:45pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Cork will be making a bid to become the real capital(again), based on having decent skyscrapers.

I think cork has seven cranes, dublin has near twenty times that amount. Also johnny ronan is looking to build two x 44 floor towers in docklands. There is a twenty nine floor building looking for planning now beside heuston station...

29-02-2020 4:48pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

I think cork has seven cranes, dublin has near twenty times that amount. Also johnny ronan is looking to build two x 44 floor towers in docklands

The Cherrywood development has almost twenty alone. The highest is 5 stories, maybe 6.

Idbatterim · 29-02-2020 6:10pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The Cherrywood development has almost twenty alone. The highest is 5 stories, maybe 6.

what a joke! That goes to show you the regard they have for sustainablity and how it is nothing more than lies and waffle. Beside the luas and m50 and n11. 5/6 floors!!! LOL!

29-02-2020 6:21pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

what a joke! That goes to show you the regard they have for sustainablity and how it is nothing more than lies and waffle. Beside the luas and m50 and n11. 5/6 floors!!! LOL!

Its ridiculous. If saving the skyline is the motivation, all the way out here it wouldn't have an impact. No shadow on your georgian tenement from all the way out here.

Idbatterim · 29-02-2020 6:38pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Its ridiculous. If saving the skyline is the motivation, all the way out here it wouldn't have an impact. No shadow on your georgian tenement from all the way out here.

it is absolutely ridiculous, 8-10 floor should be the minimum! There needs to be minimum densities now set far in excess of what it is for dublin land and particularly beside a qbc and the luas! :rolleyes:

Its actually so genius, that they can now use the neighbouring few hundred acres, to build the same again with six floors and we have only wasted another few hundred acres that needs servicing...

Passenger · 21-01-2021 7:01pm

Developer Johnny Ronan submits planning application for 45-storey block in city’s north docklands.

As part of its application, which it submitted on Wednesday under the Government’s Strategic Housing Development (SHD) or ‘fast-track’ planning process, RGRE has sought permission to develop a total of 1,005 apartments distributed across three blocks ranging in height from eight to 45 storeys over a triple-level basement.

At 155m, the tallest of the scheme’s three blocks would be Dublin’s tallest building, dwarfing both Liberty Hall (59.4m) and the 88m (23-storey) tower on Tara Street for which RGRE secured planning permission in 2019.

Link

Thelonious Monk · 22-01-2021 12:06pm

It looks so cool, but this is Dublin, I think we can safely say it will never happen, not this version of the plans anyway. Maybe he's overreaching on the storeys because they realistically know they'll never get permission for that many but maybe somewhere in the middle.

Passenger · 22-01-2021 6:25pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Maybe he's overreaching on the storeys because they realistically know they'll never get permission for that many but maybe somewhere in the middle.

Fair Point but it's a mixed use development so who knows. Somebody has to set a precedent for high rise developments.

riclad · 22-01-2021 11:47pm

There is no general plan apart from basic zoning laws,
it might be better to allow 12 storey apartment blocks in the city centre ,
in london theres 30 storey office blocks beside 2 storey shops .
every builder has different plans to build offices, apartments etc
builders will build as they can if the cost of the land is very high.
i think the planners do not dublin to look like new york city.
i wonder will there be any new office buildings built in 2021 apart from
the ones currently in progress given the new trend for office workers to work from home due to the covid crisis.
i dont know how a planner designs a skyline ,considering every year
theres new offices, retail spaces being built all over the city.
i live in an old house, close to me theres a building that has at least 10 storeys

crushproof · 24-01-2021 2:26pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It looks so cool, but this is Dublin, I think we can safely say it will never happen, not this version of the plans anyway. Maybe he's overreaching on the storeys because they realistically know they'll never get permission for that many but maybe somewhere in the middle.

It's already been trimmed down. The surrounding buildings are much lower in fresh plans. No doubt the negotiations have begun and the main tower will gradually be lowered :mad: Headwrecking

1611334887716?e=1614211200&v=beta&t=3YPtjxrG1tF7HMXBQSg-_mlgkMYApeTMF9sJ1zlLQww

1611334887716?e=1614211200&v=beta&t=3YPtjxrG1tF7HMXBQSg-_mlgkMYApeTMF9sJ1zlLQww

tropple · 25-01-2021 12:29pm

There was a good interview with John O'Hara (DCC Senior Planner) in the Business Post yesterday about the 2022-2028 development plan. I was encouraged by it, the ideas being set out seem modern, ambitious and sustainable, with a focus on building height and density near transport hubs, and encouraging multi-generational living.

How this plays out in reality is a different matter, but it gave me some hope, and it's also good to see these figures in the public spotlight as it can be all too easy for them to hide behind red tape

The Dublin skyline is ugly, why are we not building high rise for modern city?

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