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The Dublin skyline is ugly, why are we not building high rise for modern city?

ChikiChiki

Just on the train home now going through Drumcondra and the skyline of Dublin (or lack of) is absolutely disgusting. Loads of grey/brownish everywhere, council flats, brick houses and nothing of note other than Croke Park and the spire.

I see many cranes down towards the docklands being wasted building low rise commercial developments. I really think with Brexit, Dublin is making a huge mistake not building to Singapore levels of high rise. 30/40 story plus buildings zoned in the docklands would make the cityscape look spectacular. We could still retain the charm of old Dublin. They could be multi purpose mix of residential, commercial and shopping centres on the ground/underground floor. With this in mind we could compete with top global cities and provide great living standards for young professionals who wouldn't have to commute from the likes of Mullingar etc.

Why is this not happening? In my opinion it is a massive blown opportunity and lack of ambition from successive reactive instead of proactive Government's. Too many ministers with vested interests in keeping property supply low. We are attracting top Global MNCs yet staff are being shoehorned into shared and not fit for purpose accommodation out if the city. Only a matter of time before further investment is lost as the city is stretched. An absolute embarrassment.

Any thoughts?

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Alicano

A never gonna happen unpopular opinion. But I'd love to see all those 1960's/70's flats knocked down and replaced with modern apts and retail or whatever. The prime locations of the flats is insane. Slap bang beside Stephens green.. along the waterfront down from Trinity.. etc etc. Anywhere you drive in the city it's the same gaudy looking flats with clothes hanging off balconies and 65 inch tvs lighting up the tiny rooms. I'm not old enough to have been around when they were built, but whomever gave it the nod has screwed up the current landscape of the city.
Like I said. Unpopular opinion. And they'll never be knocked down.

wakka12

Alicano wrote: »

A never gonna happen unpopular opinion. But I'd love to see all those 1960's/70's flats knocked down and replaced with modern apts and retail or whatever. The prime locations of the flats is insane. Slap bang beside Stephens green.. along the waterfront down from Trinity.. etc etc. Anywhere you drive in the city it's the same gaudy looking flats with clothes hanging off balconies and 65 inch tvs lighting up the tiny rooms. I'm not old enough to have been around when they were built, but whomever gave it the nod has screwed up the current landscape of the city.
Like I said. Unpopular opinion. And they'll never be knocked down.

What 60's 70's flats? Dublin has very few buildings from those eras left in the city centre I would say

evil_seed

I haven't seen anyone mention this, but surely the actual ground underneath isn't strong enough for Skyscrapers? Limestone being a soft stone.
The reason skyscrapers work in other places is because they are all built on hard rock

Alicano

wakka12 wrote: »

What 60's 70's flats? Dublin has very few buildings from those eras left in the city centre I would say

Very much open to correction. I'm basing my guess on a visual of the architecture

Lombard St East, Holles St, Mercer St Uppr and Cuffee St are examples.
Gaudy awful flats on prime real estate. I hope I live ling enough to see them flattened and replaced by high rise Apts or offices.

L1011

You seem to be mixing 40s/50s and early 90s developments there.

cgcsb

I'm quite fond of the Stephen's green and chancery st flats. Excellent examples of the functional design of the time.

The new mid rises on Tara st and the proposed Connolly quarter will probably go ahead. Therell be some mid rises on the guiness site. There are proposals for high rise on north wall quay(Johnny Ronan) and soon the hickeys site at Heuston. The site where the proposed metrolink station is on Tara st would be a candidate after the metrolink project is abandoned.

Jamie2k9

Premair Inn have secured a site on Gloucester Street to construct a 10 story (108) room hotel.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/premier-inn-secures-dublin-docklands-site-for-108-bedroom-hotel-1.4112460

Looks like this is the site:
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3463525,-6.2503453,3a,75y,129.56h,88.92t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slurqc3M95WtMQtTEsURYGw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Jamie2k9

Another 11 story block around Tara https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/permission-sought-for-11-storey-block-to-enclose-dart-line-in-central-dublin-1.4132055?mode=amp

marieholmfan

The state should CPO very low density very central housing and build on it.

The single storey cottages beside the Mater. The single storey cottages is Stoneybatter and Donnybrook. The single storey cottages in Rathmines . Etc.

crushproof

marieholmfan wrote: »

The state should CPO very low density very central housing and build on it.

The single storey cottages beside the Mater. The single storey cottages is Stoneybatter and Donnybrook. The single storey cottages in Rathmines . Etc.

Likewise around Connolly Station and those horrible 90's redbricks on the south quays. Such prime locations but filled with squat houses.

wakka12

marieholmfan wrote: »

The state should CPO very low density very central housing and build on it.

The single storey cottages beside the Mater. The single storey cottages is Stoneybatter and Donnybrook. The single storey cottages in Rathmines . Etc.

Stoneybatter is one of the highest density residential areas in the entire country. Zero chance of it being CPO'd

L1011

marieholmfan wrote: »

The state should CPO very low density very central housing and build on it.

The single storey cottages beside the Mater. The single storey cottages is Stoneybatter and Donnybrook. The single storey cottages in Rathmines . Etc.

There are low-rise apartment blocks with lower density than many of the older single floor housing areas due to large parking/yards/common areas and larger flats. Obviously not the Zoe Shoeboxes.

The 3 floor Gregory Deal developments are also surprisingly high density.

You'd be quite surprised what would go first if targeting low density housing.

marieholmfan

L1011 wrote: »

There are low-rise apartment blocks with lower density than many of the older single floor housing areas due to large parking/yards/common areas and larger flats. Obviously not the Zoe Shoeboxes.

The 3 floor Gregory Deal developments are also surprisingly high density.

You'd be quite surprised what would go first if targeting low density housing.

Enormous six bedroom houses with one person living in them all around Ballsbridge and Sandymount.

The low density apartment blocks would be ideal. Build up up up. Give the current owners a better bigger flat in the new development and €500,000 - Bob's your uncle.

Me and you L1 011 we should be benevolent dictators. (Well you'd be benevolent).

Thelonious Monk

https://www.thejournal.ie/an-taisce-appeal-apollo-house-building-4967958-Jan2020/

Lol

PopePalpatine

I'd honestly consider voting for ANYBODY who promised to shut down those pompous **** as their first act of government. They probably blame "high"-rises for their/their other half's erectile dysfunction.

L1011

There's a purpose for an organisation of their type; but their automatic role in planning is ridiculous and should be removed so they can actually refocus on being a National Trust as they were meant to be.

Passenger

Chartered Land plans Dublin’s tallest tower on Parkgate Street

Tusky

Passenger wrote: »

Chartered Land plans Dublin’s tallest tower on Parkgate Street

Another image attached.

Marcusm

Funnily enough I think that is one of the more incongruous locations to put a 29 storey building in Dublin. It is almost an Island site and surrounded by very low rise buildings with next to no expectation that anything would be built up around it - Collins Barracks, Heuston stations (includingnpatheays) and the recently rebuilt Guinness brewery - would mean that there is little or no prospect of adjacent buildings to soften the sheer size. That being said, Heuston is a transport hub and it makes sense to densify at that location.

Tusky

Marcusm wrote: »

Funnily enough I think that is one of the more incongruous locations to put a 29 storey building in Dublin. It is almost an Island site and surrounded by very low rise buildings with next to no expectation that anything would be built up around it - Collins Barracks, Heuston stations (includingnpatheays) and the recently rebuilt Guinness brewery - would mean that there is little or no prospect of adjacent buildings to soften the sheer size. That being said, Heuston is a transport hub and it makes sense to densify at that location.

Isn't there a site directly opposite that could be developed? Currently a car showroom but was sold last year I believe. The whole area has a lot of untapped potential. Needs a bit of development I reckon.

riclad

I think the raised the height limits in the last year ,
so in the future we might have high rise apartments all over dublin.
this means sites have gone up in value in dublin.
they reduced the no of parking spaces, needed to build in a new apartment
block.
high density apartments in the city are good for the environment,
they cut down on traffic jams .
whether they look good is another question.
The skyline looks good or bad depending on where you are located ,
what direction you look in.

L1011

Marcusm wrote: »

Funnily enough I think that is one of the more incongruous locations to put a 29 storey building in Dublin. It is almost an Island site and surrounded by very low rise buildings with next to no expectation that anything would be built up around it - Collins Barracks, Heuston stations (includingnpatheays) and the recently rebuilt Guinness brewery - would mean that there is little or no prospect of adjacent buildings to soften the sheer size. That being said, Heuston is a transport hub and it makes sense to densify at that location.

A substantial portion of Heuston carpark/yard and Conyngham Road bus garage will both likely be sold for development by the end of the decade.

wakka12

Marcusm wrote: »

Funnily enough I think that is one of the more incongruous locations to put a 29 storey building in Dublin. It is almost an Island site and surrounded by very low rise buildings with next to no expectation that anything would be built up around it - Collins Barracks, Heuston stations (includingnpatheays) and the recently rebuilt Guinness brewery - would mean that there is little or no prospect of adjacent buildings to soften the sheer size. That being said, Heuston is a transport hub and it makes sense to densify at that location.

Actually the long term plan involves a lot more building in this area. CIE are considering selling a huge plot of land behind hueston station by the river, and the longterm development plan for the brewery is to have buildings along the waterfront section separate from the main brewery, could be a long time before guinness sell that land though. Will be ten years before the building is done on the land they just sold for development south of thomas street

Marcusm

wakka12 wrote: »

Actually the long term plan involves a lot more building in this area. CIE are considering selling a huge plot of land behind hueston station by the river, and the longterm development plan for the brewery is to have buildings along the waterfront section separate from the main brewery, could be a long time before guinness sell that land though. Will be ten years before the building is done on the land they just sold for development south of thomas street

Those would be welcome developments too but with at least 50m or more from this proposed 29 storey building to anything more than 4-6 stories, I think I will continue to think of it as unsuited. Perhaps if the design was more appealing, I might be persuaded. A glass curtain wall with its reflective properties might reduce its visual impact from a distance. The mock up cited is fairly uninspiring but it is not something I would dream of objecting to formally. I guess I think it is functional rather than aspirational. Given its proposed status as the city’s tallest and given its location, one could hope (forlornly) for something more.

Marcusm

Tusky wrote: »

Isn't there a site directly opposite that could be developed? Currently a car showroom but was sold last year I believe. The whole area has a lot of untapped potential. Needs a bit of development I reckon.

The carshowroom itself is a fairly small site. I doubt it will see anything larger than the Ashling.

JupiterKid

The area around Heuston Station was designated a zone of potential high rise development in the early 2000s when a high rise/increased density study was commissioned by Dublin City Council and elements of that study’s recommendations were incorporated into the City Development Plan. It makes sense as it is a transportation hub.

I do think that the proposed tower block for the former Hickeys Fabrics warehouse site on Parkgate St is rather poor in its exterior appearance.

riclad

We need more high density building,s ,high rise apartments,
builders apply for planning permission, the appearance of a building is subjective .
Is there criteria for refusing planning permission because a building is ugly, plain ,or too large ,out of scale in relation to the surrounding buildings ?
trends in style and design of buildings change over time as technology changes .
there are large buildings that look attractive but it is more expensive to build and design them than a standard apartment building .
could someone just build a large apartment block on o,connell st thats 6 storeys high?

FunkyDa2

L1011 wrote: »

A substantial portion of Heuston carpark/yard and Conyngham Road bus garage will both likely be sold for development by the end of the decade.

Here's Barcelona Sants train station, complete with a hotel(and very nice it is, too) built directly over the train lines...

10000maniacs

con___manx1 wrote: »

sky scrapers are over rated. when you see them everyday going to work you get sick of the sight of them. I did anyway when I lived in a high rise city. Dublin needs to sort out its public transport before we
start worrying about skyscrapers.

Yeah, Venezuela's capital has loads of skyscrapers.
Maybe that why inflation levels are at 15000%

[Deleted User]

wakka12 wrote: »

Yep, but could always start demolishing and densifying a few of the hideous low rise slabs that went up in the 90's and early 00's around the IFSC

I propose this stunner as tribute
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3491004,-6.2409963,3a,75y,226.22h,103.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLH-7qpVvHmvvytiUzBUvYw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

I used to work in that building. Roasting hot in summer to the extent they brought in huge industrial scale portable air conditioners or they would have to start sending people home. Baltic cold in the winter, especially the weekends (which I used to work)

The company I worked for were headquartered on floors 14-22 in a Skyscraper on Wall Street in New York. Meanwhile my office was on floor 2. Just a little bit embarrassing if people came to visit.