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What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

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Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's a silly argument for the anti-EU crowd. The spread of European population to Ireland isn't any kind of threat, because we share a commonality with regards to western philosophy and the impact of Christianity on social development. Typically, Europeans share the same basic values regarding personal freedoms, most morality, etc.

    When it comes to foreign (as in not native/originating to Europe) populations, there's not much to be done there. Anyway natural immigration would provide that influence anyway.

    The problem with his argument is that it ignores the control that any particular nation has over it's own development, and how that nation can regulate the influence of those foreign groups. Now, the Irish government (or our political elite) has repeatedly shown their inability to put Irish people first, and to control the establishments of enclaves, similar to the same failures in other European nations, but there's some hope that as other European nations cop on, so too will the Irish. If only to copy them, which is something our politicians tend to do anyway.

    Ireland needs Europe. Anyone talking about leaving the EU has zero comprehension as to how our economy operates. Yes, we have strong links with the US, and generally, it's the US multinationals that tend to get all the attention, but we've also got a huge amount of investment from European companies, along with investors into Irish companies, who would pull out if Ireland left the EU. Also most of the US companies are here because we are part of the EU... sure, our tax laws help significantly, but our connections with Europe are incredibly attractive. Lose that connection, and it would be much more difficult to retain those companies.

    In any case, we need the EU for a simpler reason. This is a world of giants. The US, China, the EU, etc.. coalitions of countries because economically, small independent nations fare poorly in negotiations over trade and general diplomacy. The few small nations who can stand alone successfully have managed to do so by offering services built up over decades or centuries... something Ireland has not done. So, any talk about leaving to EU is utterly retarded.. and would lead Ireland back into the 1950s as our economy buckles, and we have to pay higher rates on imports into our island on the boundary of Europe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Ireland needs Europe. Anyone talking about leaving the EU has zero comprehension as to how our economy operates. Yes, we have strong links with the US, and generally, it's the US multinationals that tend to get all the attention, but we've also got a huge amount of investment from European companies, along with investors into Irish companies, who would pull out if Ireland left the EU. Also most of the US companies are here because we are part of the EU... sure, our tax laws help significantly, but our connections with Europe are incredibly attractive. Lose that connection, and it would be much more difficult to retain those companies.

    The problem is, Ireland joined the EEC and in the last 20 years it has morphed into something very different. The EEC is still a good project if only we could unbolt al the crap added in since the 90s.

    Brexit, Orban and Le Penn getting strong support too shows that people are not happy with the direction of the EU despite the regular "opinion pools" bandied about by proEU media.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Oh, I completely agree. The EU should never have been allowed to start regulating culture, and becoming some kind of leader on morality or humanitarian causes. It should have stuck to just being the EEC.

    As for the shift in Europe, definitely yes, many people are not happy... but Europe is not Ireland. Entirely different environment and levels of exposure here vs there. Europeans have had to deal with migrant violent crime, organised crime, human trafficking, expansion of drug related crime (migrants acting as mules and organisers), terrorism, social conditioning, violent political protests (by foreign political groups), and ever increasing rises in costs.. (etc etc etc)

    What have Irish people experienced? We're so far behind the curve... it's coming, but most Irish people are oblivious to what's been happening in Europe, because RTE doesn't report it, except in the most shallow of ways.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I love European culture myself, the more the merrier



  • Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭ATR72


    I prefer American culture and so do most Irish people.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭ATR72


    Italy is the next one. Good chance Brothers of Italy and Lega Nord will in power together. Melanchon is France is a Eurosceptic as well and Macron won't be running again. The next French election will be more interesting than this one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭n0minus1




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I've been to Africa many times, great memories, beautiful people and many amazing cultures. Lesotho is a particular favourite of mine, been there 4 times



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I prefer American culture and so do most Irish people.

    Do they? How would you know that?

    And no, watching the big bang theory or some tv shows isn't any real indication of admiration for American culture. I suspect most Irish people have very limited experience or knowledge of "American" culture (TBH I'm not even sure what is American culture, considering how much they've taken from other places)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭ATR72


    The amount of people who will go see Garth Brooks is a good indication. The local radio station is always playing music from American bands whether it is county or pop.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You're joking, right? Garth Brooks is a pop country singer devoted to love songs (I've seen Garth 3 times). At least, if you went to see Willie Nelson, you might hear songs about the lives of people, covering the issues of depression, poverty, etc. People tend to connect with music for the emotional reaction they get to the instrumental aspects and while they might connect with the words, linking them to their own lives, there's very little exploration of culture. Even less interest in reading about all the culture that influenced that singer to write the songs.

    I did a stint in Japan and to prepare for it, I read a pile of books on traditional Japanese culture, articles on politics, their history etc. Pretty much anything I could get my hands on, because I'd be dealing with Japanese people from outside the cities. It was useless, because cultural knowledge can only be transferred through direct experience, and the awareness of what is so different (and the same) around you. Reading about culture relies on the perspectives of people who are generally biased and will paint that culture in a variety of ways... but it's rarely accurate or up to date.

    You, like most people, have the most superficial appreciation for culture, especially that of foreign cultures. Listening to music or watching a TV show isn't any kind of indication that you appreciate or properly understand American culture, it's simply that you like which boxes that show triggers.

    American culture is a hard one because so much of it is hidden behind BS propaganda, and wishful thinking rather than dealing with the cold hard facts of how people live. Then, there's the sheer size of the country, and the range of State's, each with their own culture, all contributing to the overall American parent, but.. still very very different. Try comparing what the culture is like in Texas vs that of the culture in New Orleans. They might as well be different countries with entirely different population groups. Still American but how they express themselves to nowhere the same.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,146 ✭✭✭Cordell


    I love it how people going to these 3rd world countries always say how beautiful they are, although they always stay in hotels locals cannot afford and they get vaccines and malaria tables before going there, which locals either cannot afford or don't have access to.

    Indeed there are beautiful places there. Places. We aren't getting places.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    Neither is yours. Saying that Africans should remain in Africa isn't automatically racist. As racism relies entirely on race or culture being the distinctive aspect, in connection with superiority, hate or contempt. If the poster is pointing to the lack of education, skills, or the differences in culture which prevent Africans from having successful lives in Western nations, that's not racist. It's just not PC. Just as it's not racist to point out that Africans in most European nations, the majority tend to be unemployed or reliant on temporary/insecure jobs. It's just not convenient for those who want everywhere in the West to be more "diverse" regardless of the consequences involved.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That's because places and scenery tend to be static. People look away from the grimy, cruel, harsh lives that people lead and focus on the beautiful scenery instead.

    Still, I have to wonder though. It's hard to look anywhere in African cities to ignore the squalor, the poverty, etc. Africa is beautiful in the countryside, or some of the small townships, but the cities are pretty dingy places. Sure, the tourist and wealthy areas are gorgeous, but.. they're obviously fake in comparison with the remainder of the environment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭bertiebomber


    I have been to Africa several times and i hated it . I did stay in top resorts went on horseback safaris etc etc all the great things about Africa are not the people they are disconcerting and foreboding. The smells, the dirt the poverty the gangs hanging around it has a very menacing aura out side of the very fine places developed by europeans for europeasn to holiday there.

    The same people are now coming to europe at great risk & expense and instead of trying to integrate and become european they are just creating the same hell holes where they land i.e Look at Calais Greece italy all becoming types of **** holes . Unfortunately they do not join the culture they come into they just bring the bad with them which seems pointless since the point of going is to embrace a better place to live and be.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 803 ✭✭✭machaseh


    I am not from Israel nor do I have any connection to it other than having visited it once as a tourist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭n0minus1


    Thats not the post I was referring to. Keep up



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Kinda hard to do when your posts amount to vague soundbites lacking any real definition.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I stayed in a hotel when I went to Waterford a few weeks back, was quite lovely actually



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No place is without problems, including our own 🙂

    Lesotho is a truly beautiful place, with some of the most amazing scenery you will ever come across though I wouldn't recommend doing the mountain drives at night, in a thunder storm, that was squeaky bum time lol

    I didn't meet any criminals though I promise to keep an eye out the next time I go



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,800 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    We can’t afford it, financially, logistically, socially or anyway…. It’s fûcking up the wellbeing of the country, it’s citizens, an astronomical strain on us in every way. Every day and getting worse. We need to get back control of our borders or we’ll be seeing a couple of hundred thousand per decade arriving. Be great in 25 years when some of us are due to retire, country hasn’t a pot to pîss in, not a hospital bed in sight…. Roads clogged to fûck, no cash to enable public transport improvements to cope… housing literally everywhere, welcome to the concrete jungle state… already see them building gangbusters in sleepy backwaters like Malahide, Portmarnock, Sutton…as well as more central locations..



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    RAPE capital of the world and 7x the average murder rate, 6th highest in the world for a tiny country which is 43% the size of Ireland aren’t anywhere near “problems”. They are horrific stats. 90% of prisoners are rapists ffs.

    I don’t believe you were ever there. I reckon you picked it as it’s the most dangerous country and it’d get a reaction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,800 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Highest rate of HIV between 15 and 49 year olds in the world.

    6th worst murder rate in the world with rape almost a pastime.

    great, sure invite them all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Religious devotion will blind people from reality


    WOKEness is a religion



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Don't need you to believe anything but I was there several times, as well as to other countries in Africa.

    Been to the US, Canada, loads of European countries and Brazil too.

    Haven't made it to anywhere in Asia yet but its on my to-do list



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim



    It reminds me of Conan O'Brien going to a luxury resort in Haiti and taking a photo, as a gotcha aimed at Trump for daring to say that Haiti was a shithole. The safe places in these nations, is a tiny, tiny fraction of the whole, yet a fraction they'll exploit in the name of one-upmanship. It's honestly beyond disgusting how dishonestly these types play political football.

    I meet a man last summer, who was a literal political prisoner, who was held by terrorists in an African country. He was an aid worker who went over there with liberal utopian views of the world, and even before he was kidnapped, his views were shattered. He went from being like many pros on this sub, to being a massive anti purely by seeing the savagery of the Middle East & Africa. What he seen was the real conditions and behavior, because he wasn't staying in luxury resorts, he was on the ground seeing exactly how they lived. I was going to link articles about him in the name of veracity, but I wouldn't want the mob to go after him.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭n0minus1


    Morso when you don't bother to follow a thread properly. Carry on



  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I had a similar Damascene conversion back in 2002 after being exposed to Southern Africa with work



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Looks like this situation is going to be sorted pretty soon, good to see they are able to work through the issues to get these folks here ASAP

    RTE news : Refugees from Moldova here as soon as possible - Dept





  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm in 2 minds about this one.

    On one hand being more permanent homes would be a smarter choice long-term, however its likely they would take too long so perhaps modular homes are a smarter choice right now. They'd want to be very well insulated modular units though.

    I guess you could go with modular now, and replace them in decades to come with more permanent homes. The image seems to suggest portakabin type structures but I wonder if that is what is actually planned




  • Posts: 531 [Deleted User]


    I don't think modular homes are a runner. DCC tried to go down the modular homes route several years ago, even had a big exhibition down beside the North Strand fire station, however when it went to tender, there was little or no interest. The quality of them was fairly high, from what I remember.

    We don't do modular homes here, and the international firms are too busy building then in mainland Europe.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    I am happy about the increased diversity on our island and will continue to celebrate and shout about it at every chance I get. Every story thats published about it, I'll share here, every stat or report I'll also share.

    Avoiding any of the negative stats or realities on the ground like the very plague of course, while smugly repeating the mantra of diveristy is our strength, if it's of the right sort and in European nations alone and giving no new reasons for why beyond those old saws and fetishes among some of charity, exoticism and the Irish were migrants once.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm sorry, are you surprised that I post things that support my viewpoint and not yours?

    Should I expect to see you posting material aligned against your viewpoint if that's the case?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,146 ✭✭✭Cordell


    What I don't understand is why don't you extend the same courtesy to people that don't want diversity and immigration, why do you call them racists and xenophobes and why don't you see it as attacking the poster.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Where did I refer to a poster as such? By all means, feel free to quote, link to or screenshot such a post

    In the above post I made a generalisation as there have been a number of folks attempting to paint anti-immigration positions as pro-environmental positions. I've pointed how the fallacy of this argument and the number of holes which it contains not least of which is the fact that none of the posters holding to that argument would support even the most basic green policies and only maintain such a stance in this thread where they think its some kind of "gotcha" when it is very transparent as to what they are actually doing, hilariously so in fact



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,146 ✭✭✭Cordell




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,146 ✭✭✭Cordell




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,146 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Pidgeon chess.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    In other news, the UK's Rwanda proposal sees its first (of many) legal challenge.




  • Registered Users Posts: 287 ✭✭Freight bandit


    Whatever is the matter? Rwanda is a safe country, surely those fleeing through several safe countries will be delighted to be no longer in fear of their lives, plus just think of the benefits of diversity Rwanda will gain! Doctors and engineers and food,food,Food!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,146 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Rwanda is a beautiful country, beautiful people, all that, like all Africa, and DaCor can vouch for this. So indeed what's the problem?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,393 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    Sweden has radically tightened its immigration policies since taking in more people per capita than any other EU country during the migration crisis of 2015, and now has one of the bloc’s most restrictive policies along with neighboring Denmark.

    Well Sweden’s prime minister has said the Scandinavian country has failed to integrate many of the immigrants who have settled there over the past 20 years, creating a nation of “parallel societies … living in different realities


    Sweden, the poster child for rapid change of a mostly homogeneous population, who has experienced a huge increase in crime, resulting in new epidemic of clan-based crime and migrant gangs taking over the role of the police in the likes Gothenburg, and a rapid change that can be directly connected to it's immigration policies. A few bits...

    In 2021, a study published by Brå (National Council on Crime Prevention), stated Sweden went from being one of the safest countries in Europe to the second most dangerous, In 2000-03 Sweden was ranked 18th out of 22 countries for gun crime. Around 80% of fatal shootings in Sweden had a link to organized crime, a proportion which had risen from 30 to 50% in the early 2000s & less than 20% in the 1990s. Brå also compared the proportion to other countries: around 60% of fatal shootings were linked to organized crime in the Netherlands, while in Finland such events were extremely rare,” reports The Local.

    2021 - Former Member of Sweden’s Parliament Staffan Danielsson (the Center Party) questioned Sweden’s notoriously liberal migration policy, which had been fingered as a major cause for the country's massive increase in gang shootingsorganized crimemurders, & sexual assaults. In 2012, Danielsson proposed that so-called unaccompanied refugee children should go through age tests as there were several reports of migrants providing false information claiming to be minors. Despite the major backlash proposal, a study commissioned by Sweden’s national forensic medicine agency later found that this was largely true, as a whopping 84% of the “underage migrants” tested in one study were actually adults, according to the BBC......“I was never forgiven for being right about migration policy issues” says Danielsson ............

    In 2021, people with immigrant backgrounds vastly overrepresented in crime data In an anticipated Report published by Brå, which was the first of its kind, confirms that crime & delinquency are directly linked to immigration. Brå refused to incl ethnicity in reports claiming that it to be unethical but since the pressure in 2015 the data is now included. Foreign-born 2.5 times as likely to be registered as a criminal suspects as those whose parents were both born in Sweden. 2nd-generation immigrants with a higher likelihood of becoming criminals than 1st-generation. Read on for much more detail 

    The demographic problem that Sweden has been facing cannot be solved through mass migration, essentially replacing millions of Europeans with migrants from undeveloped countries. Mass migration combined with low birth rates throughout Sweden (and Europe), has fuelled speculation on the future demographics of Europe. Which is negatively affecting some countries more than others. In 40 years Sweden went from one of the most homogenous countries in the western world to one of the least. In 1980, less than 1 % of Sweden's population had roots in a non-European country. In 2021, 33.5% of all residents have foreign background. Foreigners accounted for 99% of the population increase in 2020. In 2021, 40,000 non-Western people received Swedish citizenship. 27,340 Syrians were granted Swedish citizenship. almost the entire population of Gjøvik , a Norwegian city. Somalis (4,305), Iraq (2,141), Iranians (1,245), Eritrea followed Afghanistan: (3,471). Only 163 Norwegians, 198 Danes & 204 Finns became Swedish citizens in 2021.

    According to UN projections, Sweden to become a third-world country by 2030. Sweden will be a much poorer country by 2030, much worse than what anyone in the Swedish government indicates. The UN report HDI (Human Development Index) predicts a significant decrease in Swedish prosperity, unlike their Nordic neighbors, who will retain their top positions and even strengthen them globally in the long run. In 2010 Sweden had the 15th place in the HDI rankings but according to UN forecasts, Sweden will be #25 in 2015, and in 2030 on the 45th place.

    A 2021 study by a Finnish academic warns the people of Sweden that it faces a demographic and cultural transformation and will become a minority in its own country in less than 50 years if it does not implement a radical overhaul of its immigration system. "Swedes will compose less than half of the population by 2065 if the country’s current levels of immigration remain unchanged in the next half decade. if current immigration policies endure, Sweden will see seismic shifts in its demographics, culture, and society.

    How does Ireland (& Europe) ensure that the growing challenges of African & ME immigrant clans we see in Sweden are prevented from importing their criminal structures into Ireland. We have a multicultural politic that has been a catastrophic failure. Countries failing to integrate waves of nonnationals from incompatible cultures and societies, rendering the well-polished integration excuse parroted throughout Europe, as rode off. Ireland cannot afford to absorb a wave comparable to the likes of Sweden. The negative impact of mass migration on host communities and how it's enforced... promotes parallel societies. Clan-based societies put their community first. Why should Ireland not put itself first........because we are a great bunch of lads who support the current thing.

    Post edited by 1800_Ladladlad on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Definitely lessons to be learned there and it would make total sense for Ireland to learn from the mistakes of others to avoid making the same mistakes as it looks to bring many more people here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Mass immigration from 3rd world countries is the sole issue, and the only way to learn is to stop it. Ireland is doing the opposite of learning though, as we're doing the exact same thing with arguably even larger numbers. And to make matters even worse natives are suffering greatly because of it; from the milder things like housing, to the stronger things like being murdered, beaten, or raped. Multiculturalism itself is like a game of human sacrifice, where the natives get harmed/killed in the name of the project, all for the supposed "greater good". We used to sacrifice humans to appease gods, now we do it to appease the project and people like you. At the end of the day it's nothing but a massive betrayal of the people, the people that the nation is meant to care for. We're being stabbed in the back by our political class, yet at the same time we're meant to be outraged when someone insults the likes of Leo publicly.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,026 ✭✭✭✭Snake Plisken


    Even leftist leaders in Belgium is seeing issues where they have areas only teaching in Arabic. Will the Irish Government learn? NGO's call the shots here



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Ah yes, the usual this time it'll be magically different. That Ireland will be magically different. The realities are that even after little more than two decades of this faith based multicultural social experiment we're already seeing the same patterns emerging along ethnic lines of nations who've been running the same social experiment for many more decades and generations than us.

    In Ireland today which groups are more likely to be poorer, less educated, ghettoised, on social welfare; Europeans, Africans or East Asians? That pattern is identical in every single multicultural nation in Europe(and beyond). There are no outliers. One would think some nation somewhere with very different histories and politics over the decades since WW2 ended would have "learned from the mistakes of others", but it seems not. Maybe the fundamental mistake is in thinking that this kind of multicullturalism works? Of course this will be completely ignored by the faithful, like the religious ignore science when it goes against their passionate fantasies.

    And the only people looking to bring more (non EU)people here are sections of the government, business looking for cheaper workers and more consumers, the bloated NGO sector and naive flagwavers for this faith who have exoticism fetishes, the need to "stick it to the wacists!" and little else. The only time the Irish electorate were asked about this Irish passports for all nonsense it was roundly rejected. Will the Irish electorate ever get the chance to vote on this top down imposition? I strongly doubt it, certainly not with the current political landscape. They wouldn't like the answer. They certainly didn't like it then and some are trying to reverse that decision without going back to the electorate, because they know they wouldn't get the "correct" vote.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,146 ✭✭✭Cordell


    >>Ah yes, the usual this time it'll be magically different

    Of course. They believe it when supporting the socialism, so why wouldn't believe it when supporting multiculturalism?



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