Beef Plan Movement (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

_Brian · 08-11-2018 4:48pm

I think asking lads to withhold cattle is wrong.

It places the burden of action on the finishers while letting the majority of lads who sell weanlings and stores to heckle fromnthe background and take no action.
Processors will know who is withholding cattle and this will likely affect any future negotiation position they have with stock down the line.

A proper French style farmer blockade has allot going for it. It allows opportunities for all beef farms to represent themselves at the frontline and not just the few. It gathers media attention to the cause too.

Seaba · 08-11-2018 5:00pm

_Brian wrote: »

I think asking lads to withhold cattle is wrong.

It places the burden of action on the finishers while letting the majority of lads who sell weanlings and stores to heckle fromnthe background and take no action.
Processors will know who is withholding cattle and this will likely affect any future negotiation position they have with stock down the line.

A proper French style farmer blockade has allot going for it. It allows opportunities for all beef farms to represent themselves at the frontline and not just the few. It gathers media attention to the cause too.

From what was said last night, the plan is not set in stone - they were asking what they could add, change, remove. How about a combination of blockades and withholding cattle? Give every group a chance to shout up. Would you go to the nearest meeting and say that? There were about 30 lads from "the floor" who spoke last night and everyone was treated very fairly.

One guy mentioned blocking lorries as they were heading for the port as a tactic. He said outside of Dawn Meats in Ballyhaunis, Co Mayo a few weeks ago they put a tractor across the gates, stopping a lorry leaving and only then did the manager come out to them. One of the guys on the Beef Plan board said he was afraid to tell farmers to do this as it could potentially, legally, result in a farmer being brought to court and sued for physically obstructing the operations of a business. I can see why he was reluctant to do this.
Also those lorries leave at all hours of the night - it would be difficult to monitor that, be at the gates at 3am etc

Mooooo · 08-11-2018 5:10pm

How is this gonna be different from a couple of years ago? From my understanding there was more dairy lads turned up to protests than beef farmers? Not shouting it down just a genuine question

_Brian · 08-11-2018 5:12pm

My other wonder is what will the factory ask in return ??

They’re not going to throw out a price increase for nothing, that’s like admitting they’ve been screwing beef farmers all along.

A negotiation is only successful if everyone feels they have gained from the deal, they currently hold all the cards and get what they want, where is the incentive to negotiate and at what price ??

patsy_mccabe · 08-11-2018 5:24pm

Funny but everyone blames the factories when prices go down, but when prices rise there is always some other reason, like increased demand from one country or another. Nobody will accept that maybe there is a reduced global demand for beef. Couple that to a fall in sterling and a small country like ours, that exports 90% of our beef is always going to get hit hard.

(I'll run for cover.)

DieselMad · 08-11-2018 5:29pm

charolais0153 wrote: »

1 post in 6 years

@charolais0153 Have not been on boards in a good while for a look. Googled Beef Plan and this thread came up, thus here I am!

Correct in your observation though, after 6 years in the shadows!

And I'm contributing now because I feel that there is a genuine support and strength behind this 'Beef Plan' movement. And from talking to a few part time farmers at work today, they all know about it and have a genuine support for the movement too.

Seems to be supported by the ordinary farmer, lot of the guys working off farm in full time jobs. Not like the political animal that is the IFA full of big beef farmers finishing hundreds of animals a year,intrinsically linked to the factories and their procurement men , with big a SFP to back them up and support their debt and expansion over the years.

You will find me over in the thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php if you have any further doubts about me being a computer or a human!! Very good forum with lot of good info and discussion amongst the members if you have not yet visited. Lot of Irish members like myself on it too.

_Brian · 08-11-2018 5:59pm

Mooooo wrote: »

How is this gonna be different from a couple of years ago? From my understanding there was more dairy lads turned up to protests than beef farmers? Not shouting it down just a genuine question

Beef farmers feel abandoned and disenfranchised by their so called representatives, and given the state of the industry it’s easy to see the viewpoint.

Mooooo · 08-11-2018 6:50pm

_Brian wrote: »

Beef farmers feel abandoned and disenfranchised by their so called representatives, and given the state of the industry it’s easy to see the viewpoint.

I understand that? but when the protests were planned many didnt turn up?

Bass Reeves · 08-11-2018 8:03pm

Can any lad here tell me what is a sustainable beef price. We have heard a lot about a margin above cost of production how much is that what do weanling producers think is a sustainable price for them. There seems to be a lot of wishful thinkingwith nobody putting up hard prices.

We then have the issue of the aims of the beef plan. Why would finishers get involved in an organization who's aims may cause a reduction in price of 60% of the beef produced a static price for 10-20% and a small price for the rest. So I am sorry but I am a non believer that this beef plan is the solution and will do anything for me and may actually have negative conontations for my system.

At the end of the time the best solution is:

The setting up of producer's groups backed by legislation which is being proposed at EU level which will force processors to forward price cattle over a 3-4 months period.
The control of feedlots being directly controlled or contracted to processors being used as market controlling measure's. However even in the last few weeks an ex President of the IFA spoke against this.
The prevention of market control measure's used by processors to prevent the live trade in cattle.

After that it would be mainly up to market forces but these measure's would prevent processors manipulation of supplies

patsy_mccabe · 08-11-2018 8:34pm

How to hedge against Beef Price fluctuations;
Worth a read.

http://www.thebeefsite.com/articles/3015/hedging-using-futures-price-protection-for-cattle-producers/

In summary, hedging with futures is one of the marketing tools that can used to forward price a commodity to protect against a movement in the price.

older by the day · 08-11-2018 9:02pm

Mooooo wrote: »

I understand that? but when the protests were planned many didnt turn up?

Any suckler and dry stock man is working off farm in my area or else he is minding the kids while the wife is out working. Look its easy peasy, its all about supply and demand, giving extra premiums to produce more cheap beef will only mask the problems. Export as many calfs and weanlings as possible, therfore with less animals they should be worth more get new live markets ??. It's a costly country to do business. So when it come to dry stock less is more, have grass 10 months a year, put the check book in hiding. Sell excess bales if you have too much grass, or lease a cut growing. Draw your subsidizes

CloughCasey1 · 08-11-2018 9:38pm

older by the day wrote: »

Any suckler and dry stock man is working off farm in my area or else he is minding the kids while the wife is out working. Look its easy peasy, its all about supply and demand, giving extra premiums to produce more cheap beef will only mask the problems. Export as many calfs and weanlings as possible, therfore with less animals they should be worth more get new live markets ??. It's a costly country to do business. So when it come to dry stock less is more, have grass 10 months a year, put the check book in hiding. Sell excess bales if you have too much grass, or lease a cut growing. Draw your subsidizes

Sure we all would be as well to curl up in the corner and die so. Thats akin to drawing the dole not farming.

wrangler · 08-11-2018 9:49pm

older by the day wrote: »

Any suckler and dry stock man is working off farm in my area or else he is minding the kids while the wife is out working. Look its easy peasy, its all about supply and demand, giving extra premiums to produce more cheap beef will only mask the problems. Export as many calfs and weanlings as possible, therfore with less animals they should be worth more get new live markets ??. It's a costly country to do business. So when it come to dry stock less is more, have grass 10 months a year, put the check book in hiding. Sell excess bales if you have too much grass, or lease a cut growing. Draw your subsidizes

There was plenty of hours apart from working hrs to man protests, part time farmers could've manned protests from 2am - 6am for instance which no one wanted to do it seems, if they don't show commitment to this campaign they'll only make fools out of the organisers...... too many farmers talk the talk until they're needed.
One good thing that will come out of this is that it will become apparent that farmers and not IFA are responsible for poor beef price.
There is very little any organisation can do when beef processors tell you that ''there's deals being done'' and you know cattle are being thrown at them

Willfarman · 08-11-2018 9:50pm

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Sure we all would be as well to curl up in the corner and die so. Thats akin to drawing the dole not farming.

Why die? The sun will be back in 5 months..
Curl up with a few Dutch gold, sky box for the Jeremy Kyle show.. happy days! Beats working hard to find Larry’s next private jet and silk underpants

older by the day · 08-11-2018 9:52pm

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Sure we all would be as well to curl up in the corner and die so. Thats akin to drawing the dole not farming.

I am on your side my friend but subsidizing sucklers will probably lead to increasing numbers which will cause beef price to go down. Is there a way to get beef prices up for the farmer, would be more sustainable

DieselMad · 08-11-2018 10:01pm

older by the day wrote: »

I am on your side my friend but subsidizing sucklers will probably lead to increasing numbers which will cause beef price to go down. Is there a way to get beef prices up for the farmer, would be more sustainable

And once beef prices increase, what will human nature cause us to do?

Increase stocking rates to take more of the pie for ourselves! Thus increasing the supply and once again reducing the price!

It is a vicious circle! Much like the dairy men and their senario. Maybe production quota's that keep a reasonable floor and control on the supply and price were not such a bad idea after all!

Unfortunately in beef production we are never really exposed to the upside once the UK/EU market gives a stronger return.

Which is the case in dairy farming to a degree as the farmer elected board come together to decide the monthly price they can give to their members (suppliers) based on returns and projected returns.

gerryirl · 08-11-2018 10:46pm

Seaba wrote: »

I was at the meeting last night in Roscommon mart.

Serious crowd there - 500 reported but seemed like a lot more. Anyone that knows the mart, Ring 2 (bullocks ring) was jammed.
Myself and my Dad have about 60 acres, suckler to beef, decent enough land. I am working full time so Dad does most of the work, my wife is self employed, 3 kids. Like all the farmers there last night we are sick and tired of being screwed on price by the factories.

I was impressed how everyone spoke last night. A few got very passionate and made some very heart felt speeches but in the main there was a quiet determination to wrestle back control from the factories and, as a few mentioned, the retailers - it was quoted that farmers make 20%, factories 29% and retailers 51%.

I plan, like a few others I was talking to, to go to every farmer in my village that doesn't know about it, give them the membership form and the address to send the €10, and encourage them to go to the next meeting in the McWilliam Hotel, Claremorris, Co Mayo, November 14th at 8.30pm.

For the first time in my short farming life I felt last night that things are about to change. As they said at the meeting, no other organisation is going to do it for us. We can either continue being exploited, continue bitching, sniping, crying etc or join together and do something about it.

Yes I was there too. Was great to see a big crowd and as you said all speakers from the floor and crowd all made great points. Its very early days but no one is doing anything to tackle the issue so fair play to all that set it up. Id love to be a part of it but have way too much going on to be involved heavily in it as you'd like but will attend any meetings or whatever to contribute.

It was a very positive start for them but here is a long hard road ahead

patsy_mccabe · 08-11-2018 11:05pm

Are they going to travel around the country?

Seaba · 08-11-2018 11:09pm

gerryirl wrote: »

Yes I was there too. Was great to see a big crowd and as you said all speakers from the floor and crowd all made great points. Its very early days but no one is doing anything to tackle the issue so fair play to all that set it up. Id love to be a part of it but have way too much going on to be involved heavily in it as you'd like but will attend any meetings or whatever to contribute.

It was a very positive start for them but here is a long hard road ahead

I have a fair bit going on myself also but the one way we can all make a difference is to spread the word.

I am jumping in the car tomorrow evening to give that membership form to everyone in my village and the next village if I have time. The few people I told today had never heard of the plan but said it something has to be done and wanted the membership details.
I am also sharing every posts I come up to which relates to this, on Facebook, especially the next upcoming meeting.

A few of us are going to put flyers in the local shops in town and one lad, who works in a hardware store, hands them out to every person he meets. There is lots you can do which won't take up a huge amount of your time.

Seaba · 08-11-2018 11:10pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Are they going to travel around the country?

www.beefplan.ie
has a lot of details.
Next meetings I see scheduled are:

Mayo : McWilliam Park Hotel, Claremorris, Nov 14th, 8:30pm
Laois : Ratheniska Hall - Nov 20th, 8:00pm
Cavan : Cavan Crystal Hotel - Nov 21st, 8:30pm
Kilkenny : Newpark Hotel - Nov 28th, 8:00pm

tractorporn · 08-11-2018 11:22pm

patsy_mccabe wrote:

Are they going to travel around the country?

I got a notification on the Westmeath WhatsApp group that there's going to be a meeting for Westmeath, Offaly and Longford areas on the 22nd most likely in Mullingar

declanmo · 08-11-2018 11:25pm

Folks I am one of the volunteer farmers that are driving the beef plan, like I mentioned in a previous post I got involved over 3 weeks ago and since then I have put hours of work into this every day for the simple reason that my small beef farm has no future if things continue the way they are. At this point in time I dont believe anyone else will help us so we either help ourselves or give up. Like the other 30+ volunteer beef farmers that are driving this I dont get any money and I cover my own expenses.

In my opinion the only way that we can improve the situation is to unite farmers. This plan is not about the few farmers that are driving it, it is about all beef farmers. I have a few suckler cows and I finish a few heifers from both the dairy and sucker herds. No matter what colour or breed my heifers are I want to get at least a cost of production when I slaughter them.

I have been reading through the posts here and for those that have made comments on the plan the first thing I would like to say is thanks for reading it and the second thing is if you feel strongly about something then contact us. As it says in the plan it is a working document and its not set in stone. If you feel strongly enough about actually trying to improve the situation then get involved, we need all the help we can get!

_Brian · 08-11-2018 11:27pm

“Telegram Messenger”
Haven’t come across that app before, yet another messenger app on the phone, how many are needed !!

Never wrestle with pigs · 08-11-2018 11:35pm

_Brian wrote: »

“Telegram Messenger”
Haven’t come across that app before, yet another messenger app on the phone, how many are needed !!

WhatsApp, it's the only one that anyone is really using anymore apart from standard SMS. It's very good. You can send texts, pictures or videos to friends or group chats in a second for free.

Never wrestle with pigs · 08-11-2018 11:39pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Can any lad here tell me what is a sustainable beef price. We have heard a lot about a margin above cost of production how much is that what do weanling producers think is a sustainable price for them. There seems to be a lot of wishful thinkingwith nobody putting up hard prices.

We then have the issue of the aims of the beef plan. Why would finishers get involved in an organization who's aims may cause a reduction in price of 60% of the beef produced a static price for 10-20% and a small price for the rest. So I am sorry but I am a non believer that this beef plan is the solution and will do anything for me and may actually have negative conontations for my system.

At the end of the time the best solution is:

The setting up of producer's groups backed by legislation which is being proposed at EU level which will force processors to forward price cattle over a 3-4 months period.
The control of feedlots being directly controlled or contracted to processors being used as market controlling measure's. However even in the last few weeks an ex President of the IFA spoke against this.
The prevention of market control measure's used by processors to prevent the live trade in cattle.

After that it would be mainly up to market forces but these measure's would prevent processors manipulation of supplies

Bass, the best thing you can do is go to one of the meetings. Ask the hard questions, ask them is it going to put money in your pocket and how. Give ideas of how you think we can push for a better price/newer markets etc. Then decide if it's for you or not.

Keep Sluicing · 09-11-2018 12:00am

I've done my bit for Beef Plan. Went from 150 bullocks to 45 this year. Restricting supply in my own little way.
.
.
Your welcome.

Farmer · 09-11-2018 12:02am

_Brian wrote: »

“Telegram Messenger”
Haven’t come across that app before, yet another messenger app on the phone, how many are needed !!

AFAIK they are using telegram because it has a max group size of something like100k users. WhatsApp is much more restrictive, hence the multiple groups.

In the early days, telegram was one of the few encrypted apps although I think the others have now caught up

larthehar · 09-11-2018 12:07am

Can anybody tell me what is the price/kg that each member of the supply chain gets??
Farmer is 3.80/kg at the mo
What does the consumer pay, average price/kg for a carcass?

gerryirl · 09-11-2018 12:12am

Keep Sluicing wrote: »

I've done my bit for Beef Plan. Went from 150 bullocks to 45 this year. Restricting supply in my own little way.
.
.
Your welcome.

Id say the taxman was licking his lips over you..:D. sad when thats the way its gone. Your not alone but its whats happening country wide

Seaba · 09-11-2018 12:24am

larthehar wrote: »

Can anybody tell me what is the price/kg that each member of the supply chain gets??
Farmer is 3.80/kg at the mo
What does the consumer pay, average price/kg for a carcass?

Open to correction on this but at the meeting last night they said the farmer gets 20%, factory 29% and retailer 51% so at €3.80 a kilo that's:

Farmer €0.80
Factory €1.10
Retailer €1.90

Buford T. Justice XIX · 09-11-2018 9:03am

Seaba wrote: »

Open to correction on this but at the meeting last night they said the farmer gets 20%, factory 29% and retailer 51% so at €3.80 a kilo that's:

Farmer €0.80
Factory €1.10
Retailer €1.90

If €3.80 is the farmers portion, the consumer must be paying €19.00 a kg?

Peter90 · 09-11-2018 9:21am

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

If €3.80 is the farmers portion, the consumer must be paying €19.00 a kg?

True, facts appear wrong, when the meat is taken off the bone there will be waste, retailer getting 50% I would believe this, no matter the product retailers are making 50% be it good, furniture, appliances it’s a 50% mark up on purchase price. I am all for an increase in price but we need to be realistic. Subsidies were put in place to provide the consumer with a cheap affordable meat. Surly it should be more subsidies we should be targeting. I have spoken to organisers of the beef plan, asked questions & received little or no answers suggested problems as we have been told was shot down accused of not reading the plan eventually not getting answers to my texts. Plan imo is set up to fail, refuse to send cattle,if it happens supplies get tight increase of say 10c on previous week, what is the man with say 30 head of cattle ready to send to the factory? Continue to hold out I think not 10c by 350kg Carcus x 30 cattle extra €1000 in his pocket, those that think this wouldn’t happen are being naive

TITANIUM. · 09-11-2018 9:26am

Peter90 wrote: »

True, facts appear wrong, when the meat is taken off the bone there will be waste, retailer getting 50% I would believe this, no matter the product retailers are making 50% be it good, furniture, appliances it’s a 50% mark up on purchase price. I am all for an increase in price but we need to be realistic. Subsidies were put in place to provide the consumer with a cheap affordable meat. Surly it should be more subsidies we should be targeting. I have spoken to organisers of the beef plan, asked questions & received little or no answers suggested problems as we have been told was shot down accused of not reading the plan eventually not getting answers to my texts. Plan imo is set up to fail, refuse to send cattle,if it happens supplies get tight increase of say 10c on previous week, what is the man with say 30 head of cattle ready to send to the factory? Continue to hold out I think not 10c by 350kg Carcus x 30 cattle extra €1000 in his pocket, those that think this wouldn’t happen are being naive

So what would you do Peter?

Peter90 · 09-11-2018 10:31am

TITANIUM. wrote: »

So what would you do Peter?

I have said I would target more subsidies, they were put in place to provide a margin for farmers while providing affordable food so surly it is the subsidies that are failing? While there is room for increase in factory price it would have to be substantial to affect everyone from finishers to those that sell weanlings

TITANIUM. · 09-11-2018 10:34am

Peter90 wrote: »

I have said I would target more subsidies, they were put in place to provide a margin for farmers while providing affordable food so surly it is the subsidies that are failing? While there is room for increase in factory price it would have to be substantial to affect everyone from finishers to those that sell weanlings

Sorry Peter I should have clarified, what would you do or like to see done to improve factory prices?

Peter90 · 09-11-2018 10:37am

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Sorry Peter I should have clarified, what would you do or like to see done to improve factory prices?

Export more heavy cattle? Only solution to shorten supply, not sure how feasible, but suggestions such as everyone reducing numbers or with holding cattle is not going to happen under any circumstance

TITANIUM. · 09-11-2018 10:44am

Peter90 wrote: »

Export more heavy cattle? Only solution to shorten supply, not sure how feasible, but suggestions such as everyone reducing numbers or with holding cattle is not going to happen under any circumstance

Ya I hear ya. I'm conflicted over the holding cattle part. The factories know well that it's the farmers who will blink first with so much money tied up in them and the cost of hanging onto them.
Personally I think if the figures the lads put up here from about the profit percentages are even close to accurate then our problem is really with the retailers. 51% and what do they do for it? Seems crazy to me anyway!

Buford T. Justice XIX · 09-11-2018 10:57am

Peter90 wrote: »

I have said I would target more subsidies, they were put in place to provide a margin for farmers while providing affordable food so surly it is the subsidies that are failing? While there is room for increase in factory price it would have to be substantial to affect everyone from finishers to those that sell weanlings

Our cheque in the post is worth about half what we were getting when the SFP was started.

2 rounds of modulation with possibly another coming from Brexit and 15 years at 2% inflation each year, compounded, adds up fairly quickly.

patsy_mccabe · 09-11-2018 11:01am

Would it be true to say percentage wise, we are the largest exporter of Beef in the world? Hard to believe there is some country greater than 90%.

I really don't see any solution to this, apart from throwing a few euro at the farmer in the form of subsidies and hope markets improve long term.
What good will holding supplies do? Factories will tap into their own feedlots and penalise any farmers then with over age or overfat cattle.

coolshannagh28 · 09-11-2018 11:24am

Peter90 wrote: »

I have said I would target more subsidies, they were put in place to provide a margin for farmers while providing affordable food so surly it is the subsidies that are failing? While there is room for increase in factory price it would have to be substantial to affect everyone from finishers to those that sell weanlings

This is the crux of the matter , subsidy provides margin for farmers , processors and retailers take a cut and consumers stay peaceable on cheap food.
Subsidy is being weaned off farmers in many ways ; EU cuts , the dilution to advisory groups , vets, red tape etc .
Farmers amazingly now are turning down potential subsidy ie suckler cow payment .
Live exports which have been curtailed by Govt regulation on the behest of the processors are the main release valve on beef prices , these need to be reinstated and give exporters free reign to compete with processors and retailers.
The movement is a good idea and withholding of supply in an organised farmers union is the only way to face down processors but as stated earlier the Irish model of stack it high and sell it cheap on Uk shelves does not leave much wriggle room on prices to farmers.

wrangler · 09-11-2018 11:30am

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

This is the crux of the matter , subsidy provides margin for farmers , processors and retailers take a cut and consumers stay peaceable on cheap food.
Subsidy is being weaned off farmers in many ways ; EU cuts , the dilution to advisory groups , vets, red tape etc .
Farmers amazingly now are turning down potential subsidy ie suckler cow payment .
Live exports which have been curtailed by Govt regulation on the behest of the processors are the main release valve on beef prices , these need to be reinstated and give exporters free reign to compete with processors and retailers.
The movement is a good idea and withholding of supply in an organised farmers union is the only way to face down processors but as stated earlier the Irish model of stack it high and sell it cheap on Uk shelves does not leave much wriggle room on prices to farmers.

Where is live exports curtailed by the Government, I'd say Irish farmers paying too much for stock is the only thing curtailing exports.
Exporters can't compete

Seaba · 09-11-2018 11:51am

Peter90 wrote: »

True, facts appear wrong, when the meat is taken off the bone there will be waste, retailer getting 50% I would believe this, no matter the product retailers are making 50% be it good, furniture, appliances it’s a 50% mark up on purchase price. I am all for an increase in price but we need to be realistic. Subsidies were put in place to provide the consumer with a cheap affordable meat. Surly it should be more subsidies we should be targeting. I have spoken to organisers of the beef plan, asked questions & received little or no answers suggested problems as we have been told was shot down accused of not reading the plan eventually not getting answers to my texts. Plan imo is set up to fail, refuse to send cattle,if it happens supplies get tight increase of say 10c on previous week, what is the man with say 30 head of cattle ready to send to the factory? Continue to hold out I think not 10c by 350kg Carcus x 30 cattle extra €1000 in his pocket, those that think this wouldn’t happen are being naive

Every farmer has their own priorities but if the above, in bold, is true, then that farmer with 30 Charolais bullocks, has serious problems if he/she needs to take the extra €1,000 (€30 a head) the factory are offering.

Should that farmer not be of the mindset - stick your €1,000 - considering how much it costs to get my Charolais bullocks ready for the factory, I should be getting e.g. €4.40 kg a head as opposed to €3.80 and gain an additional €6,000 (€180 a head)?

coolshannagh28 · 09-11-2018 11:55am

wrangler wrote: »

Where is live exports curtailed by the Government, I'd say Irish farmers paying too much for stock is the only thing curtailing exports.
Exporters can't compete

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/beef/beef-trade/new-live-export-ship-expected-to-pass-inspection-and-continue-exports-36571067.html

The cost of exporting is being driven up by lobby groups ,granted as more ships reach the required standard this trade has increased .
With the price of cattle this year the exporters might have a chance.

Peter90 · 09-11-2018 12:35pm

Seaba wrote: »

Every farmer has their own priorities but if the above, in bold, is true, then that farmer with 30 Charolais bullocks, has serious problems if he/she needs to take the extra €1,000 (€30 a head) the factory are offering.

Should that farmer not be of the mindset - stick your €1,000 - considering how much it costs to get my Charolais bullocks ready for the factory, I should be getting e.g. €4.40 kg a head as opposed to €3.80 and gain an additional €6,000 (€180 a head)?

It should but being realistic once prices rises farmers will think about themselves naturally and cash in, not saying cash in at a 10c increase necessarily but once prices increase cattle sent to factories will increase, if for arguments sake farmers held off for 1 month, & prices increased you now have 5 weeks worth of cattle ready & sent to factories prices will tjen drop, if factories don’t increase prices farmers will have to cave & send anyway due to age bonus’s and the price of keeping them

Keep Sluicing · 09-11-2018 3:20pm

gerryirl wrote: »

Id say the taxman was licking his lips over you..:D. sad when thats the way its gone. Your not alone but its whats happening country wide

While he will get more than normal, I'd been preparung for rhis for nearly 2 years. Farming as a limited company also helped greatly.

148multi · 09-11-2018 5:40pm

I think live export and a slaughter scheme for calves are the only long-term solution. But when the dept of agriculture help finance the ISPCA who in turn object to live exports and promote vegan-ism, you have to ask are we fighting a losing battle.

Bass Reeves · 09-11-2018 6:25pm

Peter90 wrote: »

I have said I would target more subsidies, they were put in place to provide a margin for farmers while providing affordable food so surly it is the subsidies that are failing? While there is room for increase in factory price it would have to be substantial to affect everyone from finishers to those that sell weanlings

Where will the money come from. The EU is reducing the CAP budget every year. Our present subsidies are worth about 50% in real terms compared to 2002. Apart from that Glas is a mere shadow of REPS. In the mid noughties I drew about 5K from REPS for 7 yeras( bought a small bit of land so had to redo plan) today GLAs is worth about 1500 to me and the discussion group is 750. The costs in the mid noughties was about 600 euro once off and 50 a year to do SFP. At present DG is costing 120/year to vet over 1K to planner for plan and nutrient plan. Finally teagasc get 500/year for my DG and charge me another 200ish I think

148multi wrote: »

I think live export and a slaughter scheme for calves are the only long-term solution. But when the dept of agriculture help finance the ISPCA who in turn object to live exports and promote vegan-ism, you have to ask are we fighting a losing battle.

Lads that talk about a calf slaughter scheme are STUPID, STUPID,STUPID,STUPID,STUPID,STUPID,STUPID,STUPID,STUPID,STUPID,STUPID,STUPID,

The reason I say thsi is the only winner will be the dairy farmer as it will put a floor of about 60-80 euro minimum on any calves.

And we will lose it will look brillant can you imagine Vegan and animal right group showing video's of calves being loaded on trailers and being unloaded into abatoirs and lads pulling and dragging the half dead ones. It will work real well for our dairy export image and our nice green beef image.

TITANIUM. · 09-11-2018 6:52pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Where will the money come from. The EU is reducing the CAP budget every year. Our present subsidies are worth about 50% in real terms compared to 2002. Apart from that Glas is a mere shadow of REPS. In the mid noughties I drew about 5K from REPS for 7 yeras( bought a small bit of land so had to redo plan) today GLAs is worth about 1500 to me and the discussion group is 750. The costs in the mid noughties was about 600 euro once off and 50 a year to do SFP. At present DG is costing 120/year to vet over 1K to planner for plan and nutrient plan. Finally teagasc get 500/year for my DG and charge me another 200ish I think

Lads that talk about a calf slaughter scheme are STUPID, STUPID,STUPID,STUPID,STUPID,STUPID,STUPID,STUPID,STUPID,STUPID,STUPID,STUPID,

The reason I say thsi is the only winner will be the dairy farmer as it will put a floor of about 60-80 euro minimum on any calves.

And we will lose it will look brillant can you imagine Vegan and animal right group showing video's of calves being loaded on trailers and being unloaded into abatoirs and lads pulling and dragging the half dead ones. It will work real well for our dairy export image and our nice green beef image.

Allot of what we can't do there, but at least you gave us the why.
So is there anything we can do, anything that will work anyway in your opinion? Or should we just continue to take it up the ass until the last coloured cow is culled. And we present ourselfs humble and prostrated on the ground before our factory and retailer overlords?
I'd say I can nearly guess your anwser!

Never wrestle with pigs · 09-11-2018 7:38pm

148multi wrote: »

I think live export and a slaughter scheme for calves are the only long-term solution. But when the dept of agriculture help finance the ISPCA who in turn object to live exports and promote vegan-ism, you have to ask are we fighting a losing battle.

I wouldn't do a slaughter scheme rather a payment or top up scheme for every calf sold out of the country to exporters for dairy farmers, and a grant or tax relief of some sort to the exporters to help shift numbers. If you can squeeze the numbers a good bit it will have long lasting good hunger for our animals. No amount of protesting or holding cattle for a few weeks or sitting down talking to the factorys will work. Taking away the raw materials will.

charolais0153 · 09-11-2018 7:40pm

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

I wouldn't do a slaughter scheme rather a payment or top up scheme for every calf sold out of the country to exporters for dairy farmers, and a grant or tax relief of some sort to the exporters to help shift numbers. If you can squeeze the numbers a good bit it will have long lasting good hunger for our animals. No amount of protesting or holding cattle for a few weeks or sitting down talking to the factorys will work. Taking away the raw materials will.

The dariy farmer has enough dont ya think.
Only one fool in system is lad buying calves. Pays too much, exporter cant compete . simples

Beef Plan Movement (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

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